Onetis: Alpha Frame Dethroned/'Victory Has Defeated You'

markfromeurope

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Watch the following movie with following assumption:

Bane - Your frame when you picked up Onetis/Wayne - You after betraying yourself and dropping frame, just before Onetis leaves you

So you get this HB7+ to 10 in LTR you dreamed of since some time.

You were the best version of yourself and here she is She's yours.

Honey moon period begins. Incredible sex, you lead in your relationship. She is all over you. Sex is awesome. You are awesome.

But you are getting tired slowly and steadily. You plan most of your time together, you deal with all the problems around you two. You start to slip here and there.

Eventually, you are different when you were before and she leaves you. Your peak frame poetic vengeance on your suboptimal version of yourself.

Are you sure woman is to be blamed? Perhaps you just overextended your potential. Perhaps your best version of yourself was best because on average you are just yourself.

Perhaps anger of peak-form PUA's and RedPills towards lesser members (so to speak) of their respective communities is fuelled by selfhatred towards their real image hidden behind the veil of aquired/trained level of power which is in fact temporary as fear of becoming lesser man again is deeply terrifying.

As we all know, top frame cannot be maintained forever. You will eventually drop your guard.

Discuss.
 
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highSpeed

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Watch the following movie with following assumption:

Bane - Your frame when you picked up Onetis/Wayne - You after betraying yourself and dropping frame, just before Onetis leaves you

So you get this HB7+ to 10 in LTR you dreamed of since some time.

You were the best version of yourself and here she is She's yours.

Honey moon period begins. Incredible sex, you lead in your relationship. She is all over you. Sex is awesome. You are awesome.

But you are getting tired slowly and steadily. You plan most of your time together, you deal with all the problems around you two. You start to slip here and there.

Eventually, you are different when you were before and she leaves you. Your peak frame poetic vengeance on your suboptimal version of yourself.

Are you sure woman is to be blamed? Perhaps you just overextended your potential. Perhaps your best version of yourself was best because on average you are just yourself.

Perhaps anger of peak-form PUA's and RedPills towards lesser members (so to speak) of their respective communities is fuelled by selfhatred towards their real image hidden behind the veil of aquired/trained level of power which is in fact temporary as fear of becoming lesser man again is deeply terrifying.

As we all know, top frame cannot be maintained forever. You will eventually drop your guard.

Discuss.
It's called decision fatigue if you're looking for a technical term. Even the best of us, in the best situations will get worn down eventually. If the man is supposed to have this unassailable frame all the time and she is simply there to partake and eventually give her dissastisfaction when she has determined that all of the collective gaffes are not to her liking anymore, than literally every relationship is doomed from the start. Getting a woman, getting things rolling, totally agree with all of the frame comments.

If she is not willing or you have to constantly herd her back into that frame for the relationship to continue along in a good fashion, too much to expect from anyone. You're better off dating for a bit and then moving on, never attempting to establish a deep connection with anyone.

That way, you can establish and enforce your frame, with no fear of the big excise taxes that usually come from exiting a LTR or marriage if you decide to walk. The most power you will ever have in a relationship is simply not giving a sh*t and being willing to walk at a moment's notice. If she knows and is sure you will walk at a moment's notice and there are no excise taxes for you to leave, you've powerful leverage, very powerful. Take either one of those elements away and she's in control the moment you get into a serious committed relationship.
 

markfromeurope

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I agree with your points, I think about it in the following manner:

1)Alpha frame approach - maintain frame 95% of time, even if you slip you dismiss any remarks about it and carry on knowing its 1/20 situation because You are You - it's your decision
*it's easier to maintain alpha approach if there's significant SMV difference between both of you (aka 'not giving s.hit'/prize mentality reinforced)

2)PUA/Sigma blitz frame approach - maintain frame 95% of time at the beginning of the relationship until it starts to get boring OR your artificialy high frame starts to slip then disengage before trainwreck and reapproach or get reapproached OR dismiss the reapproach idea totally after some time - it's your decision

3)Wannabe alpha/Wannabe PUA frame approach - maintain frame 95% of time at the beginning, then start slipping, making mistakes, gets boring but you want to maintain the relationship neverthless but PUA tricks effects wane off/got reframed and in spite of all odds - eventually it's her decision
 
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DEEZEDBRAH

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Theres a Tim Samuels collaboration with Julien Blanc.

Samuels is a beta male. He cannot comprehend stepping out of beta cuck. He is pushed into the fire. He acknowledged the fact that he can change but he is faced with cognitive dissonance. He is forced to call it "creepy" when in fact, he talks to hot women about feet and socks.

This is what rsd Tyler means by the only thing creepier then pickup is not knowing how to pickup girls.

The documentary ends with beta male Samuels acknowledging stepping out of beta cuck works but, he experiences cognitive dissonance to protect his little ego seof concept.

He asks, "in a LTR, what happens when you stop the alpha act emulating the behaviour? "

What he and 99% of men don't get is that, you want to be forged in the fire, and what you do on the other side is transcend. As in, who you were and who you are now is not the same thing.


Red pill rage is a by product of cognitive dissonance. Its the peeling back of the fabric of your self concept when your real world view is changed likely forever. Clearly, it takes time to transcend your Being.

The actions you take switch on genes. You set up new neural pathways on the brain. Its neural plasticity on tren. Again, the rewiring is that pain period.

Its the same with learning a new skill, job, language, etc. This is evident in the gym.

Every man has a choice. We are responsible for the choices we make and fail to make. The epidemic of soy boy and low testosterone is due to men not going through the fire.

Good luck playboy. Know you got people here and elsewhere to help you on your journey. Cheers!
 

LARaiders85

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Watch the following movie with following assumption:

Bane - Your frame when you picked up Onetis/Wayne - You after betraying yourself and dropping frame, just before Onetis leaves you

So you get this HB7+ to 10 in LTR you dreamed of since some time.

You were the best version of yourself and here she is She's yours.

Honey moon period begins. Incredible sex, you lead in your relationship. She is all over you. Sex is awesome. You are awesome.

But you are getting tired slowly and steadily. You plan most of your time together, you deal with all the problems around you two. You start to slip here and there.

Eventually, you are different when you were before and she leaves you. Your peak frame poetic vengeance on your suboptimal version of yourself.

Are you sure woman is to be blamed? Perhaps you just overextended your potential. Perhaps your best version of yourself was best because on average you are just yourself.

Perhaps anger of peak-form PUA's and RedPills towards lesser members (so to speak) of their respective communities is fuelled by selfhatred towards their real image hidden behind the veil of aquired/trained level of power which is in fact temporary as fear of becoming lesser man again is deeply terrifying.

As we all know, top frame cannot be maintained forever. You will eventually drop your guard.

Discuss.
I've been in relationships where I lost frame and been in them where I kept frame. You look at the great relationships that last and you'll see frame comes down to "good enough" from the man's side and outcome mostly determined by the desires and character of the woman.

I recently lost my morals temporarily and went after two taken women at the exact same time. One of them had already cheated once and was completely down. Her BF was an alpha. The second felt guilty and blocked me before things went too far then reconnected after she broke up with her BF, a beta single dad.

I was the same guy at the same time in life. Outcome wasnt based on me.
 

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lamath

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Imo it happens to the best of us, i think its a Man thing.
Even the most alpha get oneitis and lose frame.
 

markfromeurope

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I've been in relationships where I lost frame and been in them where I kept frame. You look at the great relationships that last and you'll see frame comes down to "good enough" from the man's side and outcome mostly determined by the desires and character of the woman.

I recently lost my morals temporarily and went after two taken women at the exact same time. One of them had already cheated once and was completely down. Her BF was an alpha. The second felt guilty and blocked me before things went too far then reconnected after she broke up with her BF, a beta single dad.

I was the same guy at the same time in life. Outcome wasnt based on me.
Considering your experience could you say that it was easier for you to maintain frame when difference between your and your gf/ex was higher?

My bet is the answer is yes.

Perhaps third wave feminism is a backslash of PUA pre-2000 revolution that hit the dating market which itself was a response to increasing difficulty in obtaining woman of value?
Imo it happens to the best of us, i think its a Man thing.
Even the most alpha get oneitis and lose frame.
I can put my money on that the Onetis happens when your female partner is very close to your top form SMV and it's your own doom when this woman appears to be unstable.

The thought that actually is terryfying to most of men is the fact that this emotionally unstable women will be very stable with higher SMV male - or at least much more stable than she is in the end of your relationship.

I think this thought contains brutal truth that majority of men want to evade because this truth supports all their fears - that they were not good enough and - perhaps - they were not.

I got burned by my Onetis eventually but I remember that I was the one that showed her how brutal sex can be entertaining. I was the one that badmouthed guys that went in my way at that time and that wanted to be better than anyone around me, I was the one that could openly disagree with my superior at work and openly able to prove he was wrong w/o any fear whatsoever (How arrogant I was back then, what I was thinking...) yet somehow this bravado of wannabe-alpha is long gone and so is she.

I think that most of the time it's woman that makes the choice and she makes it by 'vibe' you give out around you.

If you feel damaged by women, hurt or just don't consider them to be fun anymore, you won't find woman because your stance shows that you don't want to meet one.

If you are open for anything that awaits you and you crave for adventure, you want to conquer then women will feel this vibe. I think there's a profound difference between PUA-wannabe alpha stance (I find most of PUA's to be wannabe-alpha's really) and honest progression towards your goals, upgrading SMV.

I think that sosuave should be more about "How to upgrade your SMV" site than about "How to pick up woman" site because eventually most of us will meet another women for sure but we need to able to send proper signals.

Being butt-hurt, fueling damage, throwing at each others throat, being unable to forgive our own sins... it doesn't help.

Road back to the top requires strong and constant positive reframing of defeated beta in all of us if defeat occurs.
 
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LARaiders85

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Considering your experience could you say that it was easier for you to maintain frame when difference between your and your gf/ex was higher?

My bet is the answer is yes.

Perhaps third wave feminism is a backslash of PUA pre-2000 revolution that hit the dating market which itself was a response to increasing difficulty in obtaining woman of value?
Yes to the first question. These days you rarely feel much higher for long.

Not so sure about the second, my guess would be third wave is unrelated.
 

highSpeed

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I agree with your points, I think about it in the following manner:

1)Alpha frame approach - maintain frame 95% of time, even if you slip you dismiss any remarks about it and carry on knowing its 1/20 situation because You are You - it's your decision
*it's easier to maintain alpha approach if there's significant SMV difference between both of you (aka 'not giving s.hit'/prize mentality reinforced)

2)PUA/Sigma blitz frame approach - maintain frame 95% of time at the beginning of the relationship until it starts to get boring OR your artificialy high frame starts to slip then disengage before trainwreck and reapproach or get reapproached OR dismiss the reapproach idea totally after some time - it's your decision

3)Wannabe alpha/Wannabe PUA frame approach - maintain frame 95% of time at the beginning, then start slipping, making mistakes, gets boring but you want to maintain the relationship neverthless but PUA tricks effects wane off/got reframed and in spite of all odds - eventually it's her decision
I'll be honest, a lot of this sounds like a game of diminishing returns. All 3 of these scenarios that you mention all involve some form of loss and maybe the bigger concern, the woman is the one making decisions. Think about it:

1. Who determines when you're out of frame? You? Or her?
2. Until it starts to get boring? What exactly is the measure of this? Less sex, bad actions, boring sex? Who decides the pattern of this reapproach or who determines when it's time to move on and/or say something? Again, this seems as if the decision making is hers.
3. You come right out and admit it, it's her decision.

I think the thing that gets twisted in this entire discussion of frame is that it should be the man determining if he wants to keep/stay with the woman. In any situation where those roles are reversed, you've already lost. Who wants to put all this energy into ensuring that you keep your regular wednesday and friday f*ck buddy?

Again, being honest, I'd rather go out and get a professional rather than spend all this needless energy on what will eventually amount to her determining that I've failed her standards. Unless she's going my way, willingly staying in the frame I've defined, it's too much work. With all of the crap that a man has to do in any given day, herding stray cats all day isn't very high on the list for me.
 

ubercat

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Isn't this discussion kind of ignoring the big things of life. I mean surely raising kids is something you do together. and most couples I know who've been together for a 10 years or more have investments. Long term stuff you build up together. If there are no kids and if you don't have shared projects ie treat.it like endless dating yeah I cant see how it could possibly last.

I mean lovers since the Dawn Of Time have made plans for the future.

We've got a holiday with my family planned in June. we're both learning French together and planning a trip to France. We both play the sharemarket to try and pay for said trip to France etc. It's meant to be team us against the world. If you haven't got that you're better off alone.
 
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markfromeurope

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Isn't this discussion kind of ignoring the big things of life. I mean surely raising kids is something you do together. and most couples I know who've been together for a 10 years or more have investments. Long term stuff you build up together. If there are no kids and if you don't have shared projects ie treat.it like endless dating yeah I cant see how it could possibly last.

I mean lovers since the Dawn Of Time have made plans for the future.

We've got a holiday with my family planned in June. we're both learning French together and planning a trip to France. We both play the sharemarket to try and pay for said trip to France etc. It's meant to be team us against the world. If you haven't got that you're better off alone.
Well, perhaps some of us are better alone after taking red pill. Who knows?

Can you really lower your defences to the extent of actually loving someone after getting your heart pretty much ripped off from your chest?

I think that you can go back to your pick-up frame level and even surpass it however recently I start to think that I lost ability to love another person in romantic way - I see purpose in having family and children but atm don't believe in love anymore.

Intellectual connection with a woman? There are smarter women than me for sure but they are rare and meeting woman that would match my IQ and EQ simultaneously? It's highly unlikely.

I think I might end going for looks exclusively as woman's intelligence might be overrated considering they use it mostly to fulfil their hypergamous purposes.
 

ubercat

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Well I haven't had a relationship that's lasted forever. But when I manage well they do last longer.
 

Roober

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I've contemplated this a bit, and I think it really boils down to a mans purpose, and the ability to keep pushing forward with new goals and a new purpose when the other is reached.

Men, in general, have it all wrong. Many men here do the same thing. They may have a purpose or a goal, but their primary purpose is to find a woman and a relationship. Their career, looks, and status gains are not done for themselves. At the foundation of everything they do is the sole purpose of finding of woman and possibly starting a family.

This is the fundamental flaw of so many men, arguably over 95%. Everyone of their little goals has the main purpose of attracting women. True success and happiness will never be found with this broken line of thinking.

If you even have the thought that "I would like to have a good woman and start a family", then your foundation is fvcked. What that really means is this...

I want to have a good career to find a woman.
I want to make money to attract more women.
I want to look better to attract more women.
I want to appear interesting to attract more women.
And on and on...

Fundamentally, the woman is your purpose and everything else is an intermediate step to attain that goal. And its completely wrong because the focus is not something within your control and not about you; it's really about your idealized vision of your perfect mate. You weren't working out, pursuing new goals, chasing career growth, and working on your mind for yourself.

Which begs the question... are you actually an independent free human being or just an amalgamation of hypothetical ideas to match the desires of a nonexistent perfect woman?
 
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