One of the best articles on NPD I've read

[stovepipe]

This dude is spot on with his chit. I got lots of good narc material. Stay tuned

 

[BeExcellent]

They were married for 50 years.

My Grandad's life was a misery from the outside looking in. He & my Gran lived in complete isolation for as long as I can remember. I don't actually know how he felt about it. My Dad asked him why he puts up with the grief once and he wouldn't answer.

I think my Grans behavior became normal to him. He was controlling in some ways and her isolating herself suited that. I know she had some form of breakdown in her 40's & likely has a variance of a mental health disorder.

He mitigated the impact of her negative behavior & she would belittle him in front of me & my Dad. She fell out with every single person around her & he went along with that.

My Dad's side of the family exists, but I only know my Dad & Gran.

Being honest, most of the major betrayals in my life have come from my Gran & Grandad. This is despite them being a relatively small aspect of my life.

I used to take it personally, but I have realized that she will do this to anyone who comes into her life.

She rang me today actually, complaining about some trivial issue, trying to play mind games so I would pander to her.

My mother (covert NPD of the highest order) is exactly as described. Do as I say, not as I do, all hell breaks loose if you call her on it, constantly runs me down to the rest of my siblings after I cut her out of my life for disrespecting my then husband (and despite extremely minimal communication with me over the past 7 years)...she still thrives on trying to manipulate family...say what a bad actor I am to anyone who might listen...tried to draw my minor children into her manipulative drama (I simply overtly cut her off from my children and told her why...then hung up the phone & explained her behavior to the children. That's a fun conversation.)

NPDs are notoriously masterful at both manipulation and gas lighting. They are not for amateurs to deal with. They are victims of their own lives. It is too painful for them to be accountable, as that would run completely counter to their warped self narrative.

They are like roaches in the sense that they hate the light exposing them for what they are. But therein lies the kryptonite for them. Shining light and directly calling out the behaviors, while it is not for the conflict averse, it's the single most effective way to defuse them, especially if done with indifference or better, amused mastery.

As in: That's interesting you would do/say/think xyz. How's that working out for ya? And smile. Do not get ruffled & never react. Never engage the crazy except to call it out through ridicule. NPDs hate ridicule when they are seeking supply. It's like them trying to drink sea water.

They will learn not to cross you overtly. But understand that covertly they will work to influence others and tear you down FOREVER.

So best to leave them to stew in their own grandiose paranoia. Avoidance is how you remain unscathed by their tentacles of bs and drama.

 

[btownbuck2012]

My mother (covert NPD of the highest order) is exactly as described. Do as I say, not as I do, all hell breaks loose if you call her on it, constantly runs me down to the rest of my siblings after I cut her out of my life for disrespecting my then husband (and despite extremely minimal communication with me over the past 7 years)...she still thrives on trying to manipulate family...say what a bad actor I am to anyone who might listen...tried to draw my minor children into her manipulative drama (I simply overtly cut her off from my children and told her why...then hung up the phone & explained her behavior to the children. That's a fun conversation.)

NPDs are notoriously masterful at both manipulation and gas lighting. They are not for amateurs to deal with. They are victims of their own lives. It is too painful for them to be accountable, as that would run completely counter to their warped self narrative.

They are like roaches in the sense that they hate the light exposing them for what they are. But therein lies the kryptonite for them. Shining light and directly calling out the behaviors, while it is not for the conflict averse, it's the single most effective way to defuse them, especially if done with indifference or better, amused mastery.

As in: That's interesting you would do/say/think xyz. How's that working out for ya? And smile. Do not get ruffled & never react. Never engage the crazy except to call it out through ridicule. NPDs hate ridicule when they are seeking supply. It's like them trying to drink sea water.

They will learn not to cross you overtly. But understand that covertly they will work to influence others and tear you down FOREVER.

So best to leave them to stew in their own grandiose paranoia. Avoidance is how you remain unscathed by their tentacles of bs and drama.

I'm sorry you had to go through that with your Mother. That must have been tough. Was one of the hardest things not really believing or constantly questioning whether it was your Mom that was at fault? I've found that when we're talking about covert NPDs, they tend to leave people reeling simply because you've never quite sure if they were actually the problem, i.e. their covert abuse and like you said they are incapable of taking responsibility for anything. Is this something you experienced with your Mom?

 

[BeExcellent]

I'm sorry you had to go through that with your Mother. That must have been tough. Was one of the hardest things not really believing or constantly questioning whether it was your Mom that was at fault? I've found that when we're talking about covert NPDs, they tend to leave people reeling simply because you've never quite sure if they were actually the problem, i.e. their covert abuse and like you said they are incapable of taking responsibility for anything. Is this something you experienced with your Mom?

Yes. Now. Don't feel sorry for me. I was lucky because I am strong. When you grow up being gas lighted constantly it either beats you down or it makes you start questioning everything.

As inconsistencies in my mom's words & actions became evident I got more put out with the lies and eventually was directly confrontational about it. I actually caught her red handed and called her out cold in front of other people (think incendiary rage from her) since she couldn't gas light under those conditions...there were witnesses who could observe the crazy making. Even in front of others she would act as though NOTHING had happened. Oscar worthy.

Closest thing I've ever seen to Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde...she could flip from syrupy sweet to rage and back like a light switch. My friends who saw it are still stunned decades later...but at my house it was normal.

I was quite idealistic as a young person. I abhorred hypocrisy. What is gas lighting when you examine it? Pure hypocrisy. Nothing is as advertised. Everything is smoke & mirrors.

The problem with being the one to confront such behavior is that you are then forever cast as the bad actor since 1. the NPD person cannot control you; and 2. You recognize the ugly reality of who that person actually is.

You become quite a threat to the NPD psyche.

If you cannot be controlled or manipulated you are a threat to an NPD. Threats must be destroyed.

Think about how that applies in male/female dynamics. This is also why the classic compliment to an NPD is a BPD. The NPD wants supply...the BPD fears abandonment. Neither has much empathy or ability to love in an emotionally healthy way. But they push all of each others' buttons.

Direct confrontation and refusal to engage are how you deal with an NPD. Unfortunately people who do not recognize gas lighting or those who have only casual contact with the covert NPD will never see the dark pathos at work. These are the people with whom the NPD will seek to impugn your reputation with. These people are tools the NPD uses to sleight the perceived threat - tools who are unaware they are being used.

Covert NPDs are the best master manipulators out there bar none. The hide their pathos so well few realize it exists. This is different from BPDs, sociopaths and psychopaths whose behavior has observable oddities if you pay attention.

I'd say the biggest indicator of a covert NPD is lack of close friends. Nobody will be friends with these people after a while. They are self absorbed to such an extent that they cannot bear attention go to someone else even for a brief conversation. They are terrible listeners and lack empathy. Sadly my mom will end up a bitter old woman all alone.

She can't be fixed...why, there isn't a problem at all.

I share all that to give you an idea for what it's worth. That I came through that background mostly unscathed is remarkable. I do find I have to resist over analysis of situations sometimes. I think those are the lingering fingerprints of grasping at a shapeshifter in those formative years.

It's also why I'm a woman who much prefers direct and overt communication as opposed to covert. Covert or indirect communication triggers all the analysis faculties seeking to find the elusive solid form in the cloud...and to a normal human being it comes across as a bit much. So I still have things to grow through myself...even now.

 

[btownbuck2012]

You become quite a threat to the NPD psyche.

If you cannot be controlled or manipulated you are a threat to an NPD. Threats must be destroyed.

Yeah, it seems when you call them out on their B.S. is when you really face the wrath of God. I noticed that too.

 

[BeExcellent]

http://www.narcissistsbite.com/what-is-a-narcissist.html

watch the f*ck out for women like this.

I forgot to note...that article explains my mom to the Nth degree. Glad you shared it @btownbuck2012

 

[Polysix]

Thanks for the very helpfull insights BeExcellent! Kudos to you for growing and staying strong as you did as child of a Cluster-B parent. I can only imagine how hard that must be to grow up like this.
After I called my BPD-Ex on her BS, Hell broke loose. But I had to do it for my own self-protection and dignity because Cluster-Bs fear nothing more than somebody who uncovers/ unmasks their ugly truth. They truly believe nobody can see through their BS. As you described it, the very best way is to beat them is with amused mastery and emotionally detached or indifferent. When you know how deeply hurt (from their childhood), vulnerable, fragile and insecure they really are, you see their narcissitc injury. They just can´t stand being vulnerable and the irony from a person who is calling them on their BS and you can literally see the short circuits in their infantile-brains, because with humor you demonstrate genuine high self-esteem, something they will never have.
Then they are like "Oh Sh!t, now he can see who I really am, how broken I am and I can´t control him anymore. To prevent him from telling anybody about my ugly true self (Mr. or Ms. Hyde), I have to destroy him."
Et voilà: You face their narcisstic rage! So take care because it can be very dangerous.
Calling them on their BS is only serving some kind of self-defence but don´t forget, in the end they are mentally ill people, the didn´t choose to be like that. "Hurt people hurt people." Another human virtue that Cluster-Bs lack and which they are envious of is forgivingness, so make use out of it, if you´re able to. Not in a mutually way, because that is simply not possible, only for your own peace of mind and well being.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Something that is extremely common coming out of a relationship with a person like this is wondering to yourself "Was I the problem? Maybe I have the personality disorder...?"

Good video on that ---- >

 

[stovepipe]

Something that is extremely common coming out of a relationship with a person like this is wondering to yourself "Was I the problem? Maybe I have the personality disorder...?"

I've watched just about all his videos. You can see how a piece of him is missing and how angry he still is. Can't believe he lasted I think 10 years with her. I felt just like he mentioned after my relationship was over.

If you want to get into the mind of a Narc, Id recommend watching Hg Tudor or Sam Vaknin. Both are extreme Narcs who share what it's like to be in their shoes. Watching some of their vids can and will open up some old wounds for some.

HG Tudor
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCge1h5fEmC4sU1fN6TgevIA/videos

Sam Vaknin
https://www.youtube.com/user/samvaknin/videos

 

[resilient]

One of the best songs I've ever heard written about NPD, thought some of you might like it:

Tetrafusion - Sisyphus

Song starts at: 20:22

Lyrics:
It’s so clear, it’s so apparent
So why don’t you understand?
In every single case
You maintain the upper hand

Living in our separate worlds
We’re selectively connected
Like light through a glass
My words are misdirected

My input is always refracted,
Rejected or misunderstood
Dismissing other perspectives
As if it would do any good

We’re speaking the same language
But sometimes I’m not so sure
The glass is becoming darker
Your intentions are growing more obscure

Are we from such different places,
That you cannot see my side?
Would it be so difficult
If only you had tried?

My words hitting a wall
The paint never sticks
But the more I try
The messier it gets

You only give me part of the picture
The rest is left to chance
Withholding bits and pieces
You’re setting the stage in advance

Tallying the wins and losses
Always keeping score
Forever pushing forward
Always wanting more

And so you’ve traded everything
For your idealistic goal
I know you thought that you were climbing,
But you only dug a hole

There is no pinnacle, no summit
No destination to find
It’s not just luck, not happenstance;
There’s a pattern that you’ve left behind...

Endlessly pushing to the peak
Only to enjoy it alone
Your journey in vain
A pointless mission

Endlessly pushing to the peak
Just to tumble right back down
A life made meaningless
Through bare repetition

Aimlessly pushing to the peak
When will this self-righteous quest
Exhaust your need for
Narcissistic ambition?

Forever condemned to endlessly seek
Yearning for goals, that you’ll never reach.

Striving so hard for some imaginary goal that you see
It’s clear that nothing’s meant to change, and there is nothing to grieve
This endless struggle plagues me, time to cut my losses and leave
No longer burdened with this restlessness and compromising
Faces of time are shattered on the floor, the smoke is clearing

--------
Story behind the Greek tale of Sisyphus:
In Greek mythology Sisyphus or Sisyphos (/ˈsɪsᵻfəs/;[2] Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísuphos) was the king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it come back to hit him, repeating this action for eternity. Through the classical influence on modern culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean (/ˌsɪsᵻˈfiːən/).

 

[btownbuck2012]

My words hitting a wall
The paint never sticks
But the more I try
The messier it gets

God almighty I can relate to that.

 

[BeExcellent]

Yup. My mother has no friends. Zero, Zip, Nada. It's sad really. But completely of her own doing.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Yup. My mother has no friends. Zero, Zip, Nada. It's sad really. But completely of her own doing.

I've noticed the ones that do have friends when they are around their 'friends', you'll notice their friends tend to ignore them and treat them as if they're a bit of a cumbersome third wheel.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Dam guys im reading through stuff and feeling better and better. My ex's ex wich i still talked to was married to her for 10 years and said this very thing one time. Holy chit

That's what's great about online communities. We can all come together and realize we're NOT crazy because anytime you cross a person like the type we're describing, our experiences will all be EERILY similar.

 

[btownbuck2012]

Btown no chit is it common for them to make you feel like a NPD? Like a codependency situation?

Yeah big time. The gaslighting and emotional invalidation gets so bad that you eventually think you are the cause of the relationship failing and you start questioning everything "They loved me so much and now they hate me, what the hell is wrong with me, I must be an awful person to lose that kind of love and not only to lose it but to now be thought of as a weak pathetic person by that very same person. What the hell is wrong with me", etc. ...

 

[stovepipe]

Yeah big time. The gaslighting and emotional invalidation gets so bad that you eventually think you are the cause of the relationship failing and you start questioning everything "They loved me so much and now they hate me, what the hell is wrong with me, I must be an awful person to lose that kind of love and not only to lose it but to now be thought of as a weak pathetic person by that very same person. What the hell is wrong with me", etc. ...

This! I felt that way at first, but quickly snapped out of it. I've been helping people from all over the world recover from Cluster B relationships. One guy I help cries almost everyday blaming himself for being discarded. When in fact it wasn't his fault. No matter what I tell him, he still believes he is at fault and now hates himself to the point he wants die.

Another guy I help dated a Narcopath off and on for 4 years. She turned his brain into mashed potatoes. When he asked her why she enjoys hurting men, controlling and manipulating them, she replied "I get off on it, I actually *** from seeing men in pain, it makes me powerful". The guy she dated before him blew his head off with a shotgun and the one before that tried to commit suicide but failed. Sadly I got to that point as well, Im better now, but deep down, I feel dead, like a piece of me is forever gone.

I've excepted the fact she will forever haunt me, nothing will ever compare to the euphoria I felt with her, I will never fell satisfied in another relationship again nor will I feel that deep connection I felt with her the sec our eyes first locked in on one another. It truly felt as if I found my other half.

Hope and pray the words and wisdom we share here can save at least one person from falling too deep in the black widow web.

 

[stovepipe]

Guys i have a quedtion about this mans other video. In the first one hes saying that NOD easily detaches and drops you and moves on. Then in this one here hes saying they still come back and try to whoo you and feed off of it again.
Seems conflicting and confusing.
My NPD experience was gas lighting smokescreening and then pretty vicious language towrds the situation.
Thoughts??

It's almost impossible to give an answer on whether they will hoover or not. I've talked to people who had a hoover 5, 10, 15 years later. When their looks fade, their charm no longer works like it used to and a lot of bridges have burnt, they tend to hoover certain victims back.

My advice, don't think about it, don't wait around wondering. Live your life, be happy and if it happens, ignore, ignore, ignore. Do not give them the supply they so desperately seek. Also, there is no better Narc vids than "HG Tudor and Sam Vaknin". They are actual narcs, so their info is straight from the horses mouth.

 

[btownbuck2012]

these women should be put down. I swear the woman ive been with for a year is a covert narcissist. Cant take accountability for ANYTHING she does. shes ungrateful, doesn't reciprocate. Ive honestly felt like alone in some ways with her. what a waste of this year of my life. what a selfish cvnt.

When she was young the other cambodian kids harassed her a lot because she didn't look as asian. she looks more indian. this must have fvcked her up, but fvck her. that is not my fault. its like they want to earn the abuse they received a a child by being a piece of sh!t to other people as an adult.

im ten years younger than her and shes not really hot, but not ugly either.. i bet shes lied a lot because ive caught her, never over anyything big. i've been treating her indifferently for a few days and she came and started sh!t with me at the first opportunity.

what she does the most is basically, she does her best to make me think she doesn't really give a sh!t about me, my well being, my happiness. I think ive realized she doesn't care about that ****. She cares about the validation she gets from me. constant push and pull with mostly push. basically her push is to more or less become detached, doesn't want to talk much, doesn't initiate affection ect. Im so sick of this stupid cvnt.

I can't wait untill im out of her place and I can treat her with indifference where she cant instigate. I will be laughing when she tries to make contact or hit me up.

She had surgery a few weeks ago. ovarian cyst. so i was there for her, especially after the surgery. and she still had the nerve to say "what have you done for me??" during a fight recently.

We were having an argument over text the other day, and in the middle of her talking sh@t like the stupid @ss mouth cvnt she is, she says "at the doctor now, i have to have another surgery, I probably have cancer". so later that day I went to go talk to her, I didn't want her to have cancer. I felt guilty because we were fighting too. She brushed me off saying "Its none of your business, dont worry about it" and went back to giving me the cold shoulder like she does it her pushing stage.

Tell you what. After her women will not be able to easily play games with me. I know better now. I can see it, and I could see it with her because I never really let her get away with it. but she is relentless. Doesn't give a fvck about how she affects other people.

I tell her "the next guy might beat you, or he will just leave your @ss" she says "there wont be another one after you".

Honestly good. She deserves to be alone. I now understand why she was alone for so long before me and why the father of her son lost his sh!t, got locked up because of her, and got out and destroyed her parents windshield ect.

Shes a fvcking b!tch. thats not being sassy. thats not attractive. thats what results in men choking your @ss out.

I believe most women who get abused legit want it. They provoke it. they antagonize. But its fine. I just need to get out of here asap, but I cant just yet. Plus I dont pay rent or pay for food. But when I do leave im leaving when shes not here and im not letting her know where I went.

her generosity is a result of her being 40 (but if you look at her face she looks 30, not saying shes an 8 or anything, but looks youthful) and the fact that she knows she generally sucks in relationships. It was all fake kindness.

I even said to her more than once when she tries to bring up how she "helped me out" that she neglected every other part of the relationship (never refused me sex though, just never initiated it or any affection really) that what else is she good for? I mean for real. I looked her in her eyes and said "how else would you have gotten me to stay with you for this long? you're a sh!t girlfriend"

just a sarcastic, disrespectful b!tch. She'd start an argument with me and say **** like "get louder" "get madder" "go ahead, hit me".

NEVER takes accountability. Sometimes she'd admit to what she did wrong, but only after a fight and I had to tell her to do it. Then eventually I'd say "nope, your sorry doesn't mean anything because I had to solicit it and you don't alter your behavior, even if you know what you did was fvcked up and wrong, you dont have remorse because if you had remorse you'd stop doing it."

Sorry for the rambling. But I feel better typing all that. This b!tch is a negative, vindictive, passive aggressive , soul sucking, time waster. Her son is a little dishonest, selfish brat too, and I pretty much was done with him 4 months ago. They deserve eachother.

Oh and I know it sounds a little harsh about her 14 yearold son, but this boy has been jealous (only child) of me and his mothers relationship this whole time. he used to come try and knock on the door, once he opened it while I was fvcking his mothers brains out. But once i was slamming her and he knocked on the door and said "mommy" in like a whiney voice. His mother ALWAYS told me to keep going, dont stop, which i thought was weird. This kid has wanted me gone the whole time. Hes a little mamas boy who never had a father and is as emotionally manipulative and dishonest as his mother. Oh and he is passive aggressive like her too. Hes disrespectful to me because he heard his mom talking sh!t during a fight. I've litterally caught him lying about stupid sh!t that wouldn't even benefit him.

He would come up trying to be all affectionate with his mom in front of me (which i didnt even care) and she told me later on "he never does that normally, hes doing it because you're here" just evidence he was extremely jealouse. Also sometimes when his mom and me would have an argument, he all of a sudden wants to be her bestfriend (which normally, she told me he doesn't do that much, not since he turned like 12).

He even straight up asked her "why do you treat him better than me".

NEVER get into a serious relationship with single mothers. We should be teaching male children to shun and avoid single mothers in our public schools.

I swear to God man, every single post I've read on SS about cluster b's, more specifically the covert narc type that you describe is almost like I'm reading about the girl I dated. It's as if you were describing her specifically. It really is chilling.

I bought a book recently called "The object of my affection is in my reflection". One, of many, sentences in that book that jumped off the page at me was "Narcissists elicit a primitive wrath and rage in sane and stable people". Your girl's ex is a good example. He gets locked up over her and gets out of jail only to destroy her parent's windshield. That's the type of anger these women can cause in you.

Getting out of an LTR with a covert narc woman and not having a criminal record for beating her ass or outright killing her is a motherf*cking accomplishment. They are unconscionable in their cruelty.

 

[playa99]

After posting that my Gran was a Narcissist 6 months ago I've now realized that Narcissism is all around me.

I lost my Mom at age 11 & was vulnerable. My Grandparents are textbook cover narc's & my old friends are Narc's.

I've felt substandard & sh1t about myself for a long time. I'm going through therapy & finding myself. Its no wonder I found the DJ principles hard to implement with these people around me & I didn't even see it!

My old friends ran for the hills when I met my GF. It was bizarre how they left & I took the blame. They were manipulating me & ripping me off.

My Grandparents constantly manipulate everyone around them!

No fvcking more, I'M OUT!