Not sure what’s going on

Fruitbat

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It is a lot more than 400, depends if your employer covers any of the cost too. Just myself, on a private policy and pretty bare bones is around 580 month. Family, is most likely over a 1k month. If you are low income I believe you can get a lot of subsides though
What’s your rate of income and state tax combined?
 

jaygreenb

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What’s your rate of income and state tax combined?
Not sure what you mean by rate of income, I pay the full amount and do not get any subsidies. I pay state and federal tax, it is a tiered system. In California highest rate combined with federal is around 50%. I own a business though so am able to shelter money a lot better than a W2 employee.

Here is federal a state.


Tax rateTaxable income bracketTax owed
10%$0 to $10,275.10% of taxable income.
12%$10,276 to $41,775.$1,027.50 plus 12% of the amount over $10,275.
22%$41,776 to $89,075.$4,807.50 plus 22% of the amount over $41,775.
24%$89,076 to $170,050.$15,213.50 plus 24% of the amount over $89,075.
32%$170,051 to $215,950.$34,647.50 plus 32% of the amount over $170,050.
35%$215,951 to $539,900.$49,335.50 plus 35% of the amount over $215,950.
37%$539,901 or more.$162,718 plus 37% of the amount over $539,900.

Tax rateTaxable income bracketTax owed
1%$0 to $10,099.1% of taxable income.
2%$10,100 to $23,942.$100.99 plus 2% of the amount over $10,099.
4%$23,943 to $37,788.$377.85 plus 4% of the amount over $23,942.
6%$37,789 to $52,455.$931.69 plus 6% of the amount over $37,788.
8%$52,456 to $66,295.$1,811.71 plus 8% of the amount over $52,455.
9.3%$66,296 to $338,639.$2,918.91 plus 9.3% of the amount over $66,295.
10.3%$338,640 to $406,364.$28,246.90 plus 10.3% of the amount over $338,639.
11.3%$406,365 to $677,275.$35,222.58 plus 11.3% of the amount over $406,364.
12.3%$677,276 or more.$65,835.52 plus 12.3% of the amount over $677,275.
 

Fruitbat

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Not sure what you mean by rate of income, I pay the full amount and do not get any subsidies. I pay state and federal tax, it is a tiered system. In California highest rate combined with federal is around 50%. I own a business though so am able to shelter money a lot better than a W2 employee.

Here is federal a state.


Tax rateTaxable income bracketTax owed
10%$0 to $10,275.10% of taxable income.
12%$10,276 to $41,775.$1,027.50 plus 12% of the amount over $10,275.
22%$41,776 to $89,075.$4,807.50 plus 22% of the amount over $41,775.
24%$89,076 to $170,050.$15,213.50 plus 24% of the amount over $89,075.
32%$170,051 to $215,950.$34,647.50 plus 32% of the amount over $170,050.
35%$215,951 to $539,900.$49,335.50 plus 35% of the amount over $215,950.
37%$539,901 or more.$162,718 plus 37% of the amount over $539,900.

Tax rateTaxable income bracketTax owed
1%$0 to $10,099.1% of taxable income.
2%$10,100 to $23,942.$100.99 plus 2% of the amount over $10,099.
4%$23,943 to $37,788.$377.85 plus 4% of the amount over $23,942.
6%$37,789 to $52,455.$931.69 plus 6% of the amount over $37,788.
8%$52,456 to $66,295.$1,811.71 plus 8% of the amount over $52,455.
9.3%$66,296 to $338,639.$2,918.91 plus 9.3% of the amount over $66,295.
10.3%$338,640 to $406,364.$28,246.90 plus 10.3% of the amount over $338,639.
11.3%$406,365 to $677,275.$35,222.58 plus 11.3% of the amount over $406,364.
12.3%$677,276 or more.$65,835.52 plus 12.3% of the amount over $677,275.
Im not calculating the whole thing but I estimate that my income (about $160,000 in dollars) would be taxed overall about 20% - sound about right?

here I pay 0 up to £12,500, 20% 12.5-50k and 40% above meaning my overall tax is about 35%. Plus local tax of about £170 a month which is about 33% overall. So I pay in dollars about $21,000 more than my US counterpart.

So I’d be better off, even with having to buy healthcare.

Education is free here too, wonder if that’s the case with you? We also get a state pension of about $11,000 a year at age 68. That’s reasonably valuable. In addition if you’re disabled the gov will give you a house and about $700 a month, and you get minimal unemployment benefits - but you only get benefits once you’ve spent all your money so it’s not insurance, it’s a safety net. However, if you’re just lazy and play the system you’ll get a house (poor quality) and money from the state, free everything. Some families basically make a career from playing the system, inventing disabilities etc.

what I would say is that it seems in the US you have a desperate underclass who are pretty violent to get money. I think this is because there is less protection and state benefits for them, and they have to fund their families/drug habits etc.

Here they just claim benefits. So the U.K. is VERY safe. Few places you’re gonna get robbed. It happens. I see US people being quite focussed on safety which we don’t have to worry about. It’s ludicrous for most of us to want to own a gun. We bascially pay off the poor to not rob us, it’s like protection money!!

Good points and bad points of both systems I guess. But paying this much tax does suck. It’s really hard to get wealthy.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Im not calculating the whole thing but I estimate that my income (about $160,000 in dollars) would be taxed overall about 20% - sound about right?

here I pay 0 up to £12,500, 20% 12.5-50k and 40% above meaning my overall tax is about 35%. Plus local tax of about £170 a month which is about 33% overall. So I pay in dollars about $21,000 more than my US counterpart.

So I’d be better off, even with having to buy healthcare.

Education is free here too, wonder if that’s the case with you? We also get a state pension of about $11,000 a year at age 68. That’s reasonably valuable. In addition if you’re disabled the gov will give you a house and about $700 a month, and you get minimal unemployment benefits - but you only get benefits once you’ve spent all your money so it’s not insurance, it’s a safety net. However, if you’re just lazy and play the system you’ll get a house (poor quality) and money from the state, free everything. Some families basically make a career from playing the system, inventing disabilities etc.

what I would say is that it seems in the US you have a desperate underclass who are pretty violent to get money. I think this is because there is less protection and state benefits for them, and they have to fund their families/drug habits etc.

Here they just claim benefits. So the U.K. is VERY safe. Few places you’re gonna get robbed. It happens. I see US people being quite focussed on safety which we don’t have to worry about. It’s ludicrous for most of us to want to own a gun. We bascially pay off the poor to not rob us, it’s like protection money!!

Good points and bad points of both systems I guess. But paying this much tax does suck. It’s really hard to get wealthy.
No you would be at 24% Federal, but that doesn't include Social Security Taxes which are additional nor State taxes, which differ depending on what state you are in. Some states don't have income taxes like Florida. However many states also have local taxes so you have to pay a city/county tax as well.

However, you get standard deductions on your taxes which eliminate some of that tax burden as well as other ways to reduce them. The US tax code is so complicated it's ridiculous. It's basically designed with loopholes that are mostly designed for rich people to pay far less tax as a percentage of their income than less rich people.

I'd say you'd probably be around 30% or so when it's all said and done.
 

typical

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@Fruitbat

Sell up and move the family and yourself down to New Zealand. You'll be able to land a similar paying job here and after you've sold everything back home your money will double here. Cost of living is the same so if you paid 5 bucks back home for a loaf of bread its the same here in NZD.

You can buy a house with a nice section and have it mortgage free here. Go sailing and fishing every weekend and the climate is temperate.

You sound like a Workaholic and honestly might need to see a professional to learn to relax .... or smoke some weed on ya days off.

The lapse in memory could be an underlying issue man get the checked out by a specialist and are you getting enough saturated fats into the diet ??
 

BillyPilgrim

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@Fruitbat

Sell up and move the family and yourself down to New Zealand. You'll be able to land a similar paying job here and after you've sold everything back home your money will double here. Cost of living is the same so if you paid 5 bucks back home for a loaf of bread its the same here in NZD.

You can buy a house with a nice section and have it mortgage free here. Go sailing and fishing every weekend and the climate is temperate.

You sound like a Workaholic and honestly might need to see a professional to learn to relax .... or smoke some weed on ya days off.

The lapse in memory could be an underlying issue man get the checked out by a specialist and are you getting enough saturated fats into the diet ??
.....and a sitting duck for the next Jacinda Ardern :D They go harder when they know it's hard to leave the island ;)
 

Fruitbat

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No you would be at 24% Federal, but that doesn't include Social Security Taxes which are additional nor State taxes, which differ depending on what state you are in. Some states don't have income taxes like Florida. However many states also have local taxes so you have to pay a city/county tax as well.

However, you get standard deductions on your taxes which eliminate some of that tax burden as well as other ways to reduce them. The US tax code is so complicated it's ridiculous. It's basically designed with loopholes that are mostly designed for rich people to pay far less tax as a percentage of their income than less rich people.

I'd say you'd probably be around 30% or so when it's all said and done.
shyt! I’d be worse off in the states when you count cost of healthcare! I wouldn’t have guessed that. Although the healthcare would be a higher standard.

Do you have purchase taxes? We pay 20% on anything deemed luxury (this includes a lot of things which aren’t luxury - windows for your house, chocolate cake etc)
 
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Do you have purchase taxes? We pay 20% on anything deemed luxury (this includes a lot of things which aren’t luxury - windows for your house, chocolate cake etc)
We don't have a VAT like that, but we still pay the state's sales tax. The percentage differs state to state but isn't quite near 20%.

In my state, I basically do have to pay VAT on any hard liquors, because the distribution of it is controlled by the state. So that tax runs me 20-30%, but I have a way around it.
 
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BackInTheGame78

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shyt! I’d be worse off in the states when you count cost of healthcare! I wouldn’t have guessed that. Although the healthcare would be a higher standard.

Do you have purchase taxes? We pay 20% on anything deemed luxury (this includes a lot of things which aren’t luxury - windows for your house, chocolate cake etc)
It's especially bad if you are single. You get raped on taxes. If you have kids it's better and you can claim Head of Household but if you are married and file jointly you get a tax savings basically. If you are married and file jointly with kids you get the most savings.

There is a sales tax too but that can get complex because there are Federal, State, County and sometimes City components to that.

For instance in the county I am in it's 8.75%, but in the county about 20 minutes away it's 8%.

Sometimes people will make sure to go buy cars in that county to save a few hundred dollars on taxes.
 

Fruitbat

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It's especially bad if you are single. You get raped on taxes. If you have kids it's better and you can claim Head of Household but if you are married and file jointly you get a tax savings basically. If you are married and file jointly with kids you get the most savings.

There is a sales tax too but that can get complex because there are Federal, State, County and sometimes City components to that.

For instance in the county I am in it's 8.75%, but in the county about 20 minutes away it's 8%.

Sometimes people will make sure to go buy cars in that county to save a few hundred dollars on taxes.
we don’t have that. You cant share tax allowances - and you are penalised for staying together.

An example - child benefit. If one partner earns over £50k - it’s removed. It’s about £100 a month.

If we split up, she’d get it. Together we don’t. The U.K. system is very much set up for single mothers. Even the way it’s paid - the claimant (mum) gets it. If the father earns too much, he has the benefit taken from his net pay.
Every incentive is put in place to break up couples, it’s not even funny. Even maintenance is generous, 15% of income for each child, rather than a flat rate, so mothers can cash in on high earners rather than get what’s due for raising a child.
 

BackInTheGame78

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we don’t have that. You cant share tax allowances - and you are penalised for staying together.

An example - child benefit. If one partner earns over £50k - it’s removed. It’s about £100 a month.

If we split up, she’d get it. Together we don’t. The U.K. system is very much set up for single mothers. Even the way it’s paid - the claimant (mum) gets it. If the father earns too much, he has the benefit taken from his net pay.
Every incentive is put in place to break up couples, it’s not even funny. Even maintenance is generous, 15% of income for each child, rather than a flat rate, so mothers can cash in on high earners rather than get what’s due for raising a child.
It's not really sharing, it's how the tax code is written. Basically you get what's called a Standard Deduction, meaning that they take an amount that you don't have to pay tax on off your income.

Married Filing Jointly gives you the biggest standard deduction, meaning you get a lot more income removed that is not taxable.

Child credits of $1000 per kid under age 17 is nice also.
 

EyeBRollin

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What’s your rate of income and state tax combined?
Effective tax rate is usually around 20% for me for Fed, about 5% for NJ state. Then there is FICA which is our Social Security & Medicare which is another 6%. So right there is over 30%.

The real killer is our health insurance. Health insurance in the USA is the biggest scam. It’s about $1,000 / month for my wife and I. That’s like another 7% tax. However, since it’s private instead of government Americans are willing to get railroaded by the insurance companies rather than just increase the Medicare tax another 5% to have national health care. Keep in mind, the $1,000 / month is only the premium. We still have to pay out of pocket until we reach our deductible, the car insurance concept. Some plans this can be $6,000-$10,000 in out of pocket costs before the insurance company even lifts a finger to pay anything. Makes no sense to me why people defend this bullshvt.
 
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Fruitbat

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Effective tax rate is usually around 20% for me for Fed, about 5% for NJ state. Then there is FICA which is our Social Security & Medicare which is another 6%. So right there is over 30%.

The real killer is our health insurance. Health insurance in the USA is the biggest scam. It’s about $1,000 / month for my wife and I. That’s like another 7% tax. However, since it’s private instead of government Americans are willing to get railroaded by the insurance companies rather than just increase the Medicare tax another 5% to have national health care. Keep in mind, the $1,000 / month is only the premium. We still have to pay out of pocket until we reach our deductible, the car insurance concept. Some plans this can be $6,000-$10,000 in out of pocket costs before the insurance company even lifts a finger to pay anything. Makes no sense to me why people defend this bullshvt.
OK so I should be fairly happy we have an NHS.

some things you might want to be aware of:

there are waits - long waits.
Currently I have a minor issue I need to see a doctor for. 4 and a half weeks for an appointment. Kids always seen quickly.
If the Drs suspect it’s serious you are in right away.

I had to wait 2 months for an MRI scan on my back.

There is no such thing as customer service and it’s typical government service - wait there and shut up.

If you are out of hours and have a non urgent medical need - be prepared for a 4-6 hour wait at the walk in centre.

You have to be pushy. My daughter cut her nose and they kept on pushing out her operation - she would get a scar if they left it too long. I had to make a massive stink about it to get the op done quickly. Squeaky wheel gets the grease. If you’re too nice they will walk all over you.

the NHS is 10% amazing doctors and 90% incompetent middle aged women who spend most of their time complaining about workloads and trying to make accessing services as difficult as possible

It ain’t all milk and honey but granted it’s probably better than what you get.

I am also shocked how high your taxes are. I thought the US was a low tax economy.

If you don’t get medical care WTF does 30% of your income go on?!!
 

BillyPilgrim

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I am also shocked how high your taxes are. I thought the US was a low tax economy.

If you don’t get medical care WTF does 30% of your income go on?!!
Military, black budget, debt payments, welfare, skimming

This country was founded by people willing to cross an ocean and risk death in the woods, wtf do we care about health?
 

Fruitbat

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Military, black budget, debt payments, welfare, skimming

This country was founded by people willing to cross an ocean and risk death in the woods, wtf do we care about health?
Yeah but a lot didn’t want to, a good percentage are Irish simpletons who faced famine in Ireland. Your president is one of them!

Otherwise yes, they say the difference between Americans and British is that if a guymoves in with a Ferrari in U.K., people saw suspiciously “who’s that, how did he get his money?”. We resent and dislike them, and call them a “flash **** “

Americans say “Who’s THAT guy. Good for him!”

Im not sure if the US bit is true but it’s very true we resent successful people generally
 

BillyPilgrim

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Yeah but a lot didn’t want to, a good percentage are Irish simpletons who faced famine in Ireland. Your president is one of them!

Otherwise yes, they say the difference between Americans and British is that if a guymoves in with a Ferrari in U.K., people saw suspiciously “who’s that, how did he get his money?”. We resent and dislike them, and call them a “flash **** “

Americans say “Who’s THAT guy. Good for him!”

Im not sure if the US bit is true but it’s very true we resent successful people generally
Well the Irish came to a country filled with the English, Ulster Scots, Germans, Dutch, etc, you expect all of these groups to want to pay for the others' health? People coming here were generally individualists (with some Utopians initially) from diverse backgrounds, so it's much less collective.
 

EyeBRollin

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there are waits - long waits.
Currently I have a minor issue I need to see a doctor for. 4 and a half weeks for an appointment. Kids always seen quickly.
If the Drs suspect it’s serious you are in right away.
That is standard triage. Non-critical has to wait. In the USA it is rationed by payment. They often ask for payment before even seeing you.

Military, black budget, debt payments, corporate welfare, skimming
Pretty much this. Though I changed welfare to business subsidies.
 

Fruitbat

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Well the Irish came to a country filled with the English, Ulster Scots, Germans, Dutch, etc, you expect all of these groups to want to pay for the others' health? People coming here were generally individualists (with some Utopians initially) from diverse backgrounds, so it's much less collective.
the collectivism comes from our class system. it really was a world of have and have nots before WW1 and to a lesser extent WW1.

we got the vote after the first war and socialised healthcare and housing after the second one.

There would almost certainly have been a revolution in England if it didn’t change. The upper class virtually ceased to exist after WW1.

It would have been very hard to create an individualistic society out of a centuries old class system. Hence the solution was to provide public services which benefitted all. It was a way to ensure the working classes weren’t destitiute.

After winning the ruling classes 2 world wars if this didn’t happen I guarantee you Britain would have been the socialist republic of GB.
a lot of Americans criticise our quite lefty public but this is the reason why. You were assigned a class at birth and that determined your whole life, and this is why socialised healthcare and institutions are so entrenched and revered in Britain

in the first war, heroic soldiers didn’t get medals. They would give the medal to the staff officer back at headquarters. It was pretty bad.

While there’s a common misconception in the states about our monarchy - we haven’t been ruled by an executive monarchy since 1668, the class system was very much in swing until about the 1960s and even now it’s still there.

We were conquered by the French in 1066 and they became our ruling class. Some artifacts remain in the social structure. Upper middle class families are very Francophile - wine, holidays in France, speak French, want to be part of Europe.

the working classes are anglo Saxon and like beer, and don’t want political Union with the French.

it’s a long and complicated history
 

BillyPilgrim

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the collectivism comes from our class system. it really was a world of have and have nots before WW1 and to a lesser extent WW1.

we got the vote after the first war and socialised healthcare and housing after the second one.

There would almost certainly have been a revolution in England if it didn’t change. The upper class virtually ceased to exist after WW1.

It would have been very hard to create an individualistic society out of a centuries old class system. Hence the solution was to provide public services which benefitted all. It was a way to ensure the working classes weren’t destitiute.

After winning the ruling classes 2 world wars if this didn’t happen I guarantee you Britain would have been the socialist republic of GB.
a lot of Americans criticise our quite lefty public but this is the reason why. You were assigned a class at birth and that determined your whole life, and this is why socialised healthcare and institutions are so entrenched and revered in Britain

in the first war, heroic soldiers didn’t get medals. They would give the medal to the staff officer back at headquarters. It was pretty bad.

While there’s a common misconception in the states about our monarchy - we haven’t been ruled by an executive monarchy since 1668, the class system was very much in swing until about the 1960s and even now it’s still there.

We were conquered by the French in 1066 and they became our ruling class. Some artifacts remain in the social structure. Upper middle class families are very Francophile - wine, holidays in France, speak French, want to be part of Europe.

the working classes are anglo Saxon and like beer, and don’t want political Union with the French.

it’s a long and complicated history
Interesting though. Going out on a limb here, but it seems like there was a lot of anti-English resentment in Ireland and Scotland when most of the English were dictated to by their superiors. It seems in Ireland at least the Prods and the Catholics were pitted against each other by the English upper classes, knowing it was going to be a bloodbath.

It's kinda hard to fathom the class system here in America as most of the British seem like proper and polite people. As opposed to India where it seems more justified.
 
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