need help w/ convo skills

[ogre]

please direct me to tips or links that focus on long conversation skills, i.e., dinner dates.

I'm still floundering around. I just came from back from my 2nd CL date (woohoo!), a pleasant 35-yr old russian/asian. I knew absolutely nothing about this woman. it felt strained, esp at the beginning. but mostly I was shy, clumsy and smiled a lot, babbled a lot and probably blushed too. couldn't help it. I felt like a 16-yr old on his first date. Can't be helped, since that's where I am at as far as dating experience. convo was 50/50 talking listening. she ended it. but we discussed 2nd date, she suggested a flick. I guess we'll just have to wait 'n' see...

it was a good practice date. with enough practice I think I'll be able to overcome my teenage boy shy babbling syndrome and grow a set of balls. but having a good study course of convo skills would certainly speed things up.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Consider checking out Leil's other book "How to Talk to Anyone." But first ask yourself if the real problem is your comfort level when you are with the person rather than your conversation skills. As I recall, you can easily get into a diatribe about certain topics.

 

[ogre]

don't worry I didn't go into a diatribe. "comfort level" was low, due to my shy teenage boy syndrome. It got easier after the 1st hour but we don't have alot in common and my convo stumbled a lot and wandered a lot. she's world travelled (I'm not) has a normal 9-5 life (I don't)

one thing I did to break up the tension is to ask her to teach me how to talk dirty in Russian. it loosened us both up a bit.

but anyway I gotta finish "how to make anyone fall in love with you" and then I'll get the other book.

anything on this forum?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre
please direct me to tips or links that focus on long conversation skills, i.e., dinner dates.

I knew absolutely nothing about this woman. it felt strained, esp at the beginning. but mostly I was shy, clumsy and smiled a lot, babbled a lot and probably blushed too. couldn't help it. I felt like a 16-yr old on his first date.

convo was 50/50 talking listening. she ended it. but we discussed 2nd date, she suggested a flick. I guess we'll just have to wait 'n' see...

I think I'll be able to overcome my teenage boy shy babbling syndrome and grow a set of balls.

1. There is nothing to worry about if it is a bit awkward in the begining. After 1-2 minutes it will be smoother.

2. Probably the actual problem is not about the convo, as you said yourself: " babbled a lot". but also "shy, clumsy"...
The thing is you are not comfortable, confident...well.. relaxed enough to talk in a way you used to talk. Somehting holds you back........Think about it: what holds you back?

My guess would be: you seek her approval as if she's got some supernatural female power. You reas about that stuff already, didn't you? Stop seeking her approval by lowering her significance for you by somehting like this:
a) lower you expectations before the date
b) think about "I'll never see her after that"
c) she is not good for me ...
d) since you are older, imagine that she is your student: you tech her, not she teaches you

3. Some good ideas for a good convo is to tease her...figure out her accomplishments and tease her about them. Comapre with somehting small and maybe funny.

4. You may talk about your family a bit and then immediately switch to hers. Ask about her siblings... how fun it was to be the youngets\oldest... try to relate to your own experience.
It does not contrubute to seduction, but usually makes a good topic for a convo with nice chicks.

5. Prepare icebreakers: a couple of very short slightly funny stories that you are going to tell her in teh begining.

 

[iveyleeger]

What is a CL date? How did you get it?

 

[ogre]

iveyleeger: What is a CL date? How did you get it?

craigslist internet classifieds personals:
http://www.craigslist.org

 

[ogre]

I just came home from another CL date. this one was with "shorty". some of you who read my last thread told me to next her and move on. I almost did. but then I sent her this email saying basically "nice chatting with you online, have a nice life" and she was like, oh, let's meet.

go figger......

convo was easy. she just yammered away for hours at a mile a minute about some pretty intense stuff - she's even nuttier than me. it was too easy. we met. we rode. we ate. we drank. we rode, we drank, we smoked. we rode to her home and I dropped her off. altogether 5 hrs. then she wanted me to go with her to a movie 2 days from now and I turned her down (imagine that!) but said we could do it next week sometime. I think it went pretty good....

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre
I just came home from another CL date. this one was with "shorty". some of you who read my last thread told me to next her and move on. I almost did. but then I sent her this email saying basically "nice chatting with you online, have a nice life" and she was like, oh, let's meet.

go figger......

convo was easy. she just yammered away for hours at a mile a minute about some pretty intense stuff - she's even nuttier than me. it was too easy. we met. we rode. we ate. we drank. we rode, we drank, we smoked. we rode to her home and I dropped her off. altogether 5 hrs.

Do you have to have a profile on CL somewere? or just send her an email and attach your pic?

"shorty" is so typical woman... didn't you read that most women are like cats - stop paying attention to them and they'll come back..
Just a suggestion: dont hang out with a "cat" for 5 hours. You think you are getting points with time?
So you see - there was not trouble about a convo: it went smooth...so it all depends on your "chemistry", i.e. luck.
Are you doing any approaches by the way?

Some chicks are just weird: went to a date with somebody who makes more then 75k, stay at home with her parents and admit she was and is a spolied baby. She never smiles, I detected no sense of humor at all. A convo was very sluggish as if she is 12 and dont know what to say... But she looked like HB9.5!
She asked me all sorts of questions about match - why did I sign up for it... how long... did you have any luck... etc etc.
Very stupid. Dont ask women anything about online experience on the first date. It shows you are at least weird.

 

[iveyleeger]

Can you tell us how you got the date from CL?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I'm not knocking Craigslist, it's a great concept. However I've found that the Minnesota women that post on there are basically professional daters.

I've read posts from women crying about they didn't get tickets to some concert and they would be 'willing' to go with someone. I've also seen posts from women coming to town for a day or two and want to meet and have dinner with someone. I'm tempted to reply to them with my hourly billing rate.

Have any of you guys seen anything like this with the women on Craigslist in your area or is it just Minnesota women that are so lame?

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia

Have any of you guys seen anything like this with the women on Craigslist in your area or is it just Minnesota women that are so lame?

I have seen that in Detroit area...."I am coming from NY.. for a week or two, so..."

My guess is that total anonymity of CL spurs some deeply hidden thoughts about fvcking a stranger. Dinners\concerts are the requirements of course.

The opposite example: eharmony: when you have to answer 100 questions before you actually start talking to someone you will think what you say and appear as a very decent person.

Have you met anyone from CL? Are their attitude any different from those from match?

 

[Juan Valdez]

Help

I assume you are dating sheep-women,
it's easy
Here are your tools:

Ask questions about her interests, not direct questions this isn't an interogation.

When you know her interests begin to
ask easy to answer questions , then let her answer and seem impressed.

Free associate responses , and breif comments about her interests, this shows you have interest in the same things...hmmm maybe you should be together?

If the makeup is elaborate (as in she has made up cat eyes and blended two or three differant colors of eye shadow)
compliment it. If it is sublte, do not mention it because she is trying to look like she isn't wearing any.

always compliment the hair, unless it's naturaly curly, then don't because they always hear it and it will make you seem like everyone else.

compliment her clothing if it is fine clothing or a designer lable. If she is more the hippie chick type pick one interesting artical and mention that you like it.

All the above says one thing in an indirect way. That you are looking at her, and you like what you see.

If she is really nice looking ignore her,
if she isn't so hot give her tons of attention.

if all goes extremely well, do not wait to get back to the apartment. do her in a bush or a small grove of trees, within earshot of a street musician.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by al77
Have you met anyone from CL? Are their attitude any different from those from match?

The women on Craigslist in my area depict what a log of guys think of online women in general; unattractive women wanting a free ride (make of that what you wish). I have yet to come across any woman in my area that is worth any of my effort.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the 'attitude' of women on Match.com, I see the women on there as being no different than women you come across in real life. The ones from Minnesota on Craigslist however, seem to be under the idea that a guy would cater to their needs just because they are women. Either that they are physically unattractive but feel guys would want to hook up with them just because they would agree to sleep with him OR that a guy would buy them dinner and take them to a movie or concert just for the sake that she is cute.

Again, I'm not saying that all the women on Craigslist is necessarily like that. That's why I'm asking if the ones you guys have come across are any different.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by Francisco d'Anconia
The women on Craigslist in my area depict what a log of guys think of online women in general; unattractive women wanting a free ride (make of that what you wish). I have yet to come across any woman in my area that is worth any of my effort.

I don't know exactly what you mean by the 'attitude' of women on Match.com, I see the women on there as being no different than women you come across in real life.

I believe different sites have .. or attract.. or make women have different attitudes. eHarmony women have one thing is mind, women from match are different.... somebody here said there is even different berwene yahoo women and match women.
CL is a very anonymous site, so women are not shy to express their hidden desires....it turns out they are mostly dreaming about free dinners. Well, it is expected isn't it?

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by al77
CL is a very anonymous site, so women are not shy to express their hidden desires....it turns out they are mostly dreaming about free dinners. Well, it is expected isn't it?

Once I learned how to qualify I could smell out those 'free ride' women from a mile away and avoid them like the plague. I know that they exist all over the Net but my gosh, I have yet to come across a Craigslist ad from women in my area that are written by anyone other than moochers.

 

[ogre]

CL personals...

the 3 that I dated so far were nice. but there are alot of whacky men and women. freaks, pervs, sugar babies, dinner wh0res, fetishes, angry people, whiners, ranters, and a lot of unhappy people. it's free and its anonymous, so anything goes.


my synopsis of CL personals:

1% of the men are apparently very good at playing the net personals game and seem to score all the women, f*cking and chucking and then going back online for more, leaving behind a trail of broken-hearted women who then post ads saying online "oh I miss you so much why won't you call me" and so forth. then there are all the other 99% AFC's who write reply after reply and get no play at all.

then the women on CL seem to have dated or f*cked every loser in NY but are never happy so they go and post more ads and date more losers

once in awhile a boy meets a girl and they live happily ever after. but this is the exception. I think "shorty" will work out for me as LTR, as long as I don't get one-itus or do any other AFC stupid shyt

which brings me to my next subject...

she asked me to go see "star wars " with her on opening night but I said I'd like to but maybe next week or something. she's really into star wars though and wanted to do the opening night thing.

but a friend advised that I should call her back and accept, since it's really important to her and would make a good impression. so I paged her (she called back right away) and said look if you really wanna go they're opening it tonight at midnight, you come here to my 'hood (1-1/2 hrs by public trans) and we'll go. she said she already had plans I said OK, I just thought I'd offer since it's important to you. we can do tomorrow too but you'd have to come here and it has to be the late show. don't worry I'll drive you home, ( 20 min) and she said OK, I said I gotta get off the phone I'll email you directions blah blah

so I emailed the directions, movie times, told her to email/call to confirm and I'll go fetch the tix

on the one hand it may be wussy of me to have called her, it hadn't even been 24 hrs since I dropped her off. but on the other hand I was doing it for her, and only on the condition that she drags her azz all the way to my 'hood for a late show. and she agreed to this.

so we'll see what happens. she may flake. if she call she calls. if not, wait a week and drop her an email. I got other girls to call...

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre
CL personals...

1. the 3 that I dated so far were nice.

2. she asked me to go see "star wars " with her on opening night but I said I'd like to but maybe next week or something. she's really into star wars though and wanted to do the opening night thing.

3. but a friend advised that I should call her back and accept, since it's really important to her and would make a good impression.

4. I said OK, I just thought I'd offer since it's important to you. we can do tomorrow too

1. Well..how many meal you have fed to women? I fthe answer is "many"... they were nice to you due to your free dinners in teh first place.

2. The best answer is somehting like "I am busy with work."

3. You should think about what is important to her much later...dont supplicate to her needs. I know what I am talking about: I, myself is guilty in this AFC trend....
You think you take her to movie, you will earn points? Why? Cuz you being nice to her? This is what typical nice guys does... and thats why he is not good with women.

4. I can't eblieb you said that "since it's important to you"...
are you her hubby to think what's important to her?
Did you think what is important to you??? Did you have sex with her? Was she good? Nah... you want to impress her by being nice....is not it what we all should avoid?

5. I would like to discourage you from having any kind of expectation about LTR with anyone. Once you have that....you start thinking even more "Oh.. sh eis my potentiol LTR... how I can be nice to her?...".. and fall into AFC, nice guys actions...

 

[ogre]

1. Well..how many meal you have fed to women? I fthe answer is "many"... they were nice to you due to your free dinners in teh first place.

1st two weren't hungry which thought was pretty rude since I was very hungry and I felt silly gorging myself in front of them. so I made sure to tell shorty to "be hungry" for our date.

1st one went dutch
2nd one went dutch but she bought me a drink
3rd we split the bill at dinner but later took turns buying the next round

no moochers.

2. The best answer is somehting like "I am busy with work."

that's what I did - at first - until being advised otherwise - possibly wrongly


3. You should think about what is important to her much later...dont supplicate to her needs.....


I was advised to do something really special for her once - make an impression - and then I'd never have to do it again


4. I can't eblieb you said that "since it's important to you"...

or something like that... maybe I said "sicne you wanted to go" but if it's that important she'll let me know. if not, she'll flake. I'd rather do it next week anyway.

... you want to impress her by being nice....is not it what we all should avoid?

"nice" would be to pick her up at her place at 8. not doing that. I made it clear that I'd take her but she'd have to come here at my convenience.

5. I would like to discourage you from having any kind of expectation about LTR with anyone.

yeah - one-itus. I have to keep on the ball..

my main concern is that doc love's "system" says you should avoid contact for about a week and then call her up. d'angelo talks about taking 1 step back. all agree you have to back off and give her some space otherwise she'll back off. but it's too late I already made the call. all I can do now is wait 'n' see. if I don't hear from her all I can do is wait, at least a week

 

[al77]

.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by ogre


1. 1st two weren't hungry
1st one went dutch
2nd one went dutch but she bought me a drink
3rd we split the bill at dinner but later took turns buying the next round
no moochers.

2. I was advised to do something really special for her once - make an impression - and then I'd never have to do it again

4. I can't eblieb you said that "since it's important to you"...
or something like that... maybe I said "sicne you wanted to go" but if it's that important she'll let me know. if not, she'll flake. I'd rather do it next week anyway.

5. my main concern is that doc love's "system" says you should avoid contact for about a week and then call her up.
d'angelo talks about taking 1 step back. all agree you have to back off and give her some space otherwise she'll back off. but it's too late I already made the call. all I can do now is wait 'n' see. if I don't hear from her all I can do is wait, at least a week

1. I think dinner dont make a good first date...moreover, I figured out "dutch" gives her a wrong impression: you invited her, and then you go dutch? Many women would take it as a turn off...
I would never take her to dinner at the first meeting.

2. It is a game of words. Yes, it is great to make an impression... it depends HOW you make it...to get availbale for her to go movies doesn't make any impressions.. since you are passively make yourself available to her. If you come up with some simple idea as to go to a concert...gallery.. etc.. that would count.

4. Even "sicne you wanted to go".. it sounds like you are willing to accomodate... never ever show this. Again, I am not critisizing you - I myself a RAFC who did all sorts of mistakes, especially being too available...
I dont think being busy would give you any advatange, but at least it would save you from "freinds only" zone.

5. Dont know about a week. Maybe... I guess about 4 days is enough time to wait to call her again and talk like for 15-20 minutes.