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MtmVaott's Progress and Contemplation Diary

BackInTheGame78

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The thing you need to be careful is going from one end of the spectrum to the other.

It's always best to be somewhere between the 30-70 on either end of a 0-100 scale. Too far on one side or the other and you end up costing yourself opportunities with women needlessly.
 

Plinco

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I understand. Since I don't love myself enough, if I would start being very selfish right now, I would be narcissistic, ruthless and cruel. I suspect that is exactly what I experience from these women I call 'selfish'.
I can also see that putting my interests ahead of other people's interests is normal, I already do it. What I don't do is to put my interests ahead if it would go to the expense of others. This is the point I don't want to cross until I love myself enough to balance it.

I know what you mean with the first.
For those who do it 'for who I am', it's because I communicate to them that I don't value myself. They engage in hurtful behaviour because they feel superior and it boosts their ego. Again, it's what I called 'selfish'.

So when I talked about selfishness, I meant selfishness without self-love. I don't know the term for that. Maybe being confident but ruthless and cold-hearted.
I'm still advised to look for self-loving, kind, warm persons.
In the English language, selfishness does not necessarily equate to narcissism.
 

MtmVaott

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In the English language, selfishness does not necessarily equate to narcissism.
Yes, narcissism. That's it.
I've found these trait continuums that describe it from the outside:
Altruism - selfishness, consideration - ruthlessness, healthy sensibility - offendedness, dysfunctional perception of self- and external value.
It's a mindset and everbody is narcissistic to an extent. The degree depends on the core beliefs the person has.
 

Plinco

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To a certain extent, the term narcissism is a shaming tactic for those who love themselves.
 

DonQuixote

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And I actually think Pooks explanations about desire and being the prize are unhelpful and just backwards rationalisations why he became successful with women.
Pook is right on the money. This is how men think in patriarchal societies about themselves and used to in the West. It was not an active ongoing thought process but ingrained into the very being of man. Speaking of my own experience. Self-esteem issues and thinking low of yourself and obsessing about it is a female thing.
 

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BoostedArrow

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I read both of Pook's threads now.
There is something cristallizing: The power engine for self-actualization.

Pook wrote Speed Seduction (I assume Pick Up) helped him becoming a Don Juan (someone who just is and who lives life for himself).
Also his 'guideposts' like 'be the prize', 'desirelessness', 'be a challenge' helped him. These are basically positive affirmations. And they kickstart the engine.

I myself experienced the power engine while I faked 'Alpha behavior'. However, mine crashed.

So what I could see is he describes the fuel to the engine as doing what makes him happy, fulfilled. His passions and hobbies.
It's recommended to go where women are, also talking to them, but not reacting, not asking out, rejecting if necessary.
Because the developing Nice Guy rises and falls with validation from others, even more fuel goes into the engine.
But the fuel can't leak, because he never takes the risk of asking out, never makes any moves whatsoever and doesn't even look more into her eyes than necessary. The engine will crash as soon as the ego is swallen enough. Instead of into the ego, direct the impulsion:

This engine isn't designed to 'get girls', it's designed to use the validation of girls to propel and fuel my own development:
Making myself happier and more fulfilled. Spending time with people who are compatible to me and where I feel free around. Changing my core beliefs, making my thinking constructive and optimistic. Being me. Getting to know me.

Where can I find those Texts of pook? Are they in the book of pook?

So what you're doing with the engine is operating without the need for getting validation of others?
 

MtmVaott

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Where can I find those Texts of pook? Are they in the book of pook?

So what you're doing with the engine is operating without the need for getting validation of others?
They are in the 'uplifting material' section of the Don Juan bible https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/recommended-books-for-all-men-new-members-start-here.269601/

No, how should I do that, I put a lot of value on how I am perceived by others.
Read everything Pook wrote in those threads of the Don Juan bible, maybe it's enough to understand the bigger picture.
But I'll try myself: As someone with crippling core beliefs, negative thoughts, life sucks. To make life more livable, you'll need to alter what you automatically think (and the beliefs, those are even more engrained automatic thoughts). Get rid of detrimental habits like judging, analyzing, phantasizing, worrying, excessive problem-solving without purpose, addictions, distractions like mindless music consumption etc., getting out into fresh air once in a while, and so on. All that can be extremely exhausting. So you also want to do activities that fulfill you.
Now, you'll meet women inevitably on your way. They can stagger your process and set you back completely, depending how fvcked up your thoughts and beliefs are and how attractive/incompatible/detrimental for you she is. So it's best to keep women at a platonic level.
That provides 2 benefits: 1. They don't endanger your process and 2. You get pleasant conversations.
I don't think anymore the ego boost by interested women is helpful. that ego boost is mostly because women want to fvck you/are interested, but they don't even really know you or you can already say you don't like them and they don't seem to care.
And ego is one of your biggest enemies in this process anyway. It's easier to pretend you are valuable because you do/have 'whatever' instead of changing how you think.
Also, women who are very attractive are still a threat. The desire is too strong, and you'll self sabotage and try to 'get her'. It's better to back off completely and analyze the thoughts around the less attractive women. It's easier to access thoughts with weeker emotional responses.
 

MtmVaott

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They are in the 'uplifting material' section of the Don Juan bible https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threads/recommended-books-for-all-men-new-members-start-here.269601/

No, how should I do that, I put a lot of value on how I am perceived by others.
Read everything Pook wrote in those threads of the Don Juan bible, maybe it's enough to understand the bigger picture.
But I'll try myself: As someone with crippling core beliefs, negative thoughts, life sucks. To make life more livable, you'll need to alter what you automatically think (and the beliefs, those are even more engrained automatic thoughts). Get rid of detrimental habits like judging, analyzing, phantasizing, worrying, excessive problem-solving without purpose, addictions, distractions like mindless music consumption etc., getting out into fresh air once in a while, and so on. All that can be extremely exhausting. So you also want to do activities that fulfill you.
Now, you'll meet women inevitably on your way. They can stagger your process and set you back completely, depending how fvcked up your thoughts and beliefs are and how attractive/incompatible/detrimental for you she is. So it's best to keep women at a platonic level.
That provides 2 benefits: 1. They don't endanger your process and 2. You get pleasant conversations.
I don't think anymore the ego boost by interested women is helpful. that ego boost is mostly because women want to fvck you/are interested, but they don't even really know you or you can already say you don't like them and they don't seem to care.
And ego is one of your biggest enemies in this process anyway. It's easier to pretend you are valuable because you do/have 'whatever' instead of changing how you think.
Also, women who are very attractive are still a threat. The desire is too strong, and you'll self sabotage and try to 'get her'. It's better to back off completely and analyze the thoughts around the less attractive women. It's easier to access thoughts with weeker emotional responses.
Important thread for me. I don't focus enough on getting to know others when I talk to them. Sometimes, others open conversations with me, but it dies out fast. I'll have to assess if I don't provide enough clues in my responses, or if they are only interested in the answer to their opening question. And I have to pay attention if I am the one who is mostly opening the conversations, not the other person, and rate their interest level.
 

MtmVaott

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Every time I chase a girl, I am running away from my life.

Every time I think of a girl in a romantic sense, I escape my life in my imagination.


A man looks in front of him.
And walks towards the horizon.
 
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MtmVaott

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A woman told me how she met her husband. Never thought much about it till now:

The guy was a friends friend. Borrowed something from him. She was interested. Instead of returning what she borrowed by just placing it somewhere (I think it was the key of a caravan), she ringed the guy out to hand it over.
She explicitely mentioned: He never cared about women before he met me and just did his own thing (with his friends).

This was a woman's advice (she arranged an opportunity). But an opportunity for what? For the prize, this guy.
She only thought fondly of her move, because in the end, it turned out to be a guy who did his own thing.
 

MtmVaott

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Oh man. For everybody who's first language is not English: Prize =/= price:
"A prize is an award to be given to a person or a group of people (such as sporting teams and organizations) to recognize and reward their actions and achievements."


For women, sex, sexual appearance and feminine behaviour is always something they use to compete with the other women and to achieve prizes (men).

Hence, a man who tries to get sex or affection in a romantic sense from women tries to sell a prize with no meaning and no worth. The woman has to do nothing to earn it, he's the consolation prize.

On the other side, the man who encourages women he likes in their pursuits, who expects them to qualify for him, who is choosy, who rejects as soon the woman doesn't provide value in the pursuit of HIS prizes.

Now, the question is what are the prizes of men? Here I am not sure yet.
 
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