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Maybe dating co-workers is not such a bad idea

oc16

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Think about it:

Bars/Clubs---Generally no good and the odds are stacked against you

Online Dating---Generally no good (unless you look like Brad Pitt) and any halfway decent looking woman is getting multiple messages a day.

Gym---Generally no good since the ratio is 70/30 guys and most women workout with headphones

Meetup.com---Generally no good since the ratio is not in your favor (atleast from the ones I have been to)

Church---Not that I have seen (but I guess it depends on your area)

This leaves you with two main options:

1.) Your social circle---Not a woman your best friends knows but usually a friend of a friend's girlfriend's friend (or something like that)

2.) Work---You see the woman frequently and get to know her in a less superficial setting. This is especially true for couples where the female is noticeably better looking. I guarantee they either met at work or their mutual social circle.


I am starting to think work should always be a viable option.
 
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SW15

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Your post reeks of scarcity mindset and beta male. You're not entirely wrong, but your mindset needs to be altered. You also failed to mention some key daygame venues such as retail stores, malls, grocery stores, and outdoor walking paths/streets as options.

Bars/Clubs---Generally no good and the odds are stacked against you
The odds are stacked against any man, and most men compound the problem by doing bar/club game in the worst way possible. Most men are going out on Friday/Saturday nights, when competition is fiercest. Additionally, when every other beta male is out there approaching women with putrid game on Friday/Saturday night, women tend to get annoyed and closed off to approaches. If a man must do bar/club game, the better choices are later nights Sun-Thurs night or 5-8 PM Happy Hour game on Monday-Thursdays.

A woman who is out at a bar at 11 PM on Tuesday night is more serious about meeting men than one out at 11 PM on Saturday night. The Friday/Saturday night crowd does a lot of attention whorring and gets annoyed by weak beta male approaches with putrid game.

Online Dating---Generally no good (unless you look like Brad Pitt) and any halfway decent looking woman is getting multiple messages a day.
This sounds like it was written in 2011 before swipe apps. Swipe apps compounded every bad trend from the 2000s/early 2010s website era of dating.

In the website era, a man was competing with other men in her inbox. Now, not only is a man competing with her swipe app inbox, he's also competing with her swipe app queue of men who could get right swiped on and be a near future volume of new messages.

The swipe apps are the worst thing that can be done.

On Instagram, it's difficult to stand out in the DMs and your own Instagram needs to be on point. You need to have more Followers than account you are Following. If you DM on LinkedIn, you're probably a desperate guy. I've never heard of a LinkedIn DM being perceived positively by any woman, but most women who are semi-active on LinkedIn get sex and date offers in their DMs. Twitter falls somewhere in between Instagram and LinkedIn.

Gym---Generally no good since the ratio is 70/30 guys and most women workout with headphones
The headphone/earbud issue is the biggest issue in gym game. The workaround to that at the gym is the fitness class scene. Fitness classes are mostly female and approaching is possible because there are no earbuds. However, even with such good ratios, it's quite difficult to get dates at fitness classes. There's a narrow window of 5 mins before and 5 mins after a class to approach. Additionally, women are not very interested in being sociable before or after classes in general.

Meetup.com---Generally no good since the ratio is not in your favor (atleast from the ones I have been to)
Most groups are awful. This is typically where desperate guys go to swarm average at best looking women.

Attractive women don't do Meetup.com groups. Attractive women do what's cool/trendy and Meetup.com has never been considered cool/trendy.

Church---Not that I have seen (but I guess it depends on your area)
Fewer younger people are active in a religion. It might work in a 50+ age bracket.

This leaves you with two main options:

1.) Your social circle---Not a woman your best friends knows but usually a friend of a friend's girlfriend's friend (or something like that)

2.) Work---You see the woman frequently and get to know her in a less superficial setting. This is especially true for couples where the female is noticeably better looking. I guarantee they either met at work or their mutual social circle.
Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year relationship (and counting) relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

A social circle introduction is a higher percentage play than a swipe app interaction or approaching a stranger (either in a bar or non-bar setting). It's a more difficult path and it's not a path I recommend highly. Social circle is better in the shorter to medium term. You can get a solid, medium term (1-4 years) girlfriend via social circles more easily than through approaches or swiping more easily.

The problem with social circles becomes sustainability over a longer period of time (5+ years). Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for a serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.

In theory, you can fix this problem with relocating and re-creating social circles every so often. In practice, that would never happen. Relocations have a way of ruining social circles. Also, after age 30 at the latest, you're not getting into a good social circle in a new city if you relocate. You can get friends if you relocate after 30 but you're not likely to get a social circle that will provide you introductions to quality girlfriends.

Dating in the workplace is even more problematic than social circle. It's possible to date within your own workplace if you have a McJob that you don't care about keeping. Men with blue collar/manual labor jobs won't have enough female co-workers to even have the option of creating a workplace romance. For men with white collar jobs, this isn't realistic. Men with white collar jobs have to be concerned about the wrath of HR if an approach goes work. Men with white collar jobs will also have to see the woman nearly every day once the interaction goes bad and it will eventually go bad. It could go bad after 1-2 dates or after a 1-2 year extended relationship. That will be unpleasant and likely force you to look for another job. It's always a major inconvenience to look for white collar jobs, regardless of economic conditions, but it is worse in recessionary times. Interview processes take a long time.

There are 3 ways to play the white collar workplace dating game.

1. Use the workplace as a part of social circle game. You could date the friends/acquaintances of your female co-workers. Everything I wrote about social circle game applies to this.

2. Approach women working in the same building as your company, but who work in other companies in that same building. This is a form of daygame cold approach. For this to actually be realistic, you typically need to work in a 10+ floor urban work building with multiple companies in the building. You'll either need to linger in common areas of the building or get some fortunate timing in riding elevators/walking through the common areas of the building. I have gotten numbers and dates by doing this option 2. With more people working at home at least part-time due to the pandemic, these types of interactions are becoming less common.

3. After you give your 2 week notice of resignation, you might be able to hit on women in your company. You might also be able to hit on women after they put in their 2 week notices. This is always challenging to do and getting more challenging with more working at home. I've never done this but I've heard of men using this tactic to get dates.
 

Divorced w 3

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I vehemently disagree that bars and clubs are no good.

As far as dating / banging someone from the office, I could see that working. Honestly have never tried but there’s one from a satellite office that I have multiple reasons to believe is in play. I should have driven her home from the Christmas party. That was my own fault. Long story not with repeating - point is that if you have game and frame it doesn’t matter where.
 

RangerMIke

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Is dating co-workers a 'bad idea'? It depends of the people, the company culture, and other co-workers that look at what is happening and will make judgements. But just because something is not a bad idea, does not automatically mean it's a good idea either.

I had a young woman who worked for me about 8 years ago. She was a great worker, seriously one of the best staff members that have ever worked for me. NOTHING was going on between the two of us, absolutely NOTHING. She got bonuses and raises because she EARNED them. But I also had a bunch of catty older women (who in truth were also good) that couldn't stop gossiping and making invalid assumptions about what was going on. Eventually this young woman quit because she didn't like the work environment. I let her go not because she did anything wrong, but it was too much of a distraction. I could have fought for her and kept her, fired the gossiping hens, but all this would have done was re-enforce a 'opinion' that something was going on.

As the owner and manager of a company, I will FIRE anyone that screws up the efficiency and profitability of my company. So if I had a couple of employees that was treating work like a dating scene they are fvcking history. Is it fair? Nope, and I don't care... the work place is for WORK, not super terrific happy time. Anything that distracts from productivity and profitability has to go.
 

Divorced w 3

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Is dating co-workers a 'bad idea'? It depends of the people, the company culture, and other co-workers that look at what is happening and will make judgements. But just because something is not a bad idea, does not automatically mean it's a good idea either.

I had a young woman who worked for me about 8 years ago. She was a great worker, seriously one of the best staff members that have ever worked for me. NOTHING was going on between the two of us, absolutely NOTHING. She got bonuses and raises because she EARNED them. But I also had a bunch of catty older women (who in truth were also good) that couldn't stop gossiping and making invalid assumptions about what was going on. Eventually this young woman quit because she didn't like the work environment. I let her go not because she did anything wrong, but it was too much of a distraction. I could have fought for her and kept her, fired the gossiping hens, but all this would have done was re-enforce a 'opinion' that something was going on.

As the owner and manager of a company, I will FIRE anyone that screws up the efficiency and profitability of my company. So if I had a couple of employees that was treating work like a dating scene they are fvcking history. Is it fair? Nope, and I don't care... the work place is for WORK, not super terrific happy time. Anything that distracts from productivity and profitability has to go.
Girl in our office told her assistant that the way to get better service at the restaurant was to give your waiter a blow job. Cultures as you said vary
 

BackInTheGame78

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It always is a bad idea because things get messy and it spills over into the work environment when it does. Unless it's a situation where you don't actively work together then maybe it's OK. Ie, you are at two different locations.
 

Hal9000

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There are women everywhere. Why mess with them the one place that they can get you fired if you do anything whatsoever that they don't like?
 

BackInTheGame78

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The most serious issue ends up being if one person is interested and the other isn't. That's like 75% of these situations. That's when sexual harassment becomes an issue.
 

2Rocky

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Only if you work for the CIA..


Marrying Within The CIA Is Encouraged
Many CIA agents speak of the difficulties that come with getting married and the strain their work puts on a marriage. For the benefit of the agency and its employees, the CIA encourages operatives to form relationships with fellow officers. Marrying within the agency is considered a smart career move. Another agent is much less likely to be a security concern.
Retired operative Dayna Baer says, "I think that although it is not ever said internally... having a relationship/marriage with another CIA employee is encouraged. It just makes it easier all around."
Her husband, Robert Baer, also a former operative, adds, "If you're gonna make a clandestine career in the CIA, it's better to have a CIA spouse. You can gossip at night over a glass of wine and not be anguished you're spilling a secret."
 

pipeman84

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Gym---Generally no good since the ratio is 70/30 guys and most women workout with headphones
Man, this forum is obsessed with the fact that women at the gym have earbuds. What better way of signaling she's already in a relationship/not interested ? Furthermore, if she's wearing earbuds the first, second time you see her, then mysteriously they disappear and she hangs in your proximity or smiles when looking at you, isn't that the best indicator for you to approach? #winwin

IMO, work environment is the high-school/college version for adults. Perfect place to scout, saving you time compared with other venues.

For men with white collar jobs, this isn't realistic. Men with white collar jobs have to be concerned about the wrath of HR if an approach goes work.
If you go mode 1 on them, then yeah, that's true. :lol: If you've already established through the grapevine that she's a normal person with no major red flags and just approach her like a colleague and see what she's about, taking it step by step, there shouldn't be any problems.
 

SW15

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Man, this forum is obsessed with the fact that women at the gym have earbuds.
It's a real issue. Women wear earbuds in part to discourage approaching.

If you go mode 1 on them, then yeah, that's true. :lol: If you've already established through the grapevine that she's a normal person with no major red flags and just approach her like a colleague and see what she's about, taking it step by step, there shouldn't be any problems.
There are 2 somewhat separated issues.

1. The wrath of HR. Remember that the HR Manager is usually some harpie feminist.
2. What happens with the interaction goes bad, whether it's after "one date and no sex" or a 1-2 year relationship?

Even if you get around the problem of the HR department in Issue #1, Issue #2 will eventually become something. It has the potential to be a real distraction. This is why the expression "don't shiit on your own backyard" exists.
 

pipeman84

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2. What happens with the interaction goes bad, whether it's after "one date and no sex" or a 1-2 year relationship?

Even if you get around the problem of the HR department in Issue #1, Issue #2 will eventually become something. It has the potential to be a real distraction. This is why the expression "don't shiit on your own backyard" exists.
Issue #1 is actually a non issue provided one does what I said in the previous post: vv
If you've already established through the grapevine that she's a normal person with no major red flags and just approach her like a colleague and see what she's about, taking it step by step,
Issue #2 is a legitimate question and would have to be looked at on a case by case basis. I mean, if one works in the same small office, it would be awkward...it would still be a problem even if the relationship works, because at least for me it has a claustrophobic vibe to it...you're with that person at work all day, then at home rest of the day...too much. :rolleyes: So the solution in that case would be that one party changes jobs.
 

SW15

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Issue #2 is a legitimate question and would have to be looked at on a case by case basis. I mean, if one works in the same small office, it would be awkward...it would still be a problem even if the relationship works, because at least for me it has a claustrophobic vibe to it...you're with that person at work all day, then at home rest of the day...too much. :rolleyes: So the solution in that case would be that one party changes jobs.
The inconvenience of changing jobs more than offsets the possible conveniences of getting vagina from showing up to work and not having to cold approach or swipe a ton to get the same quantity of vagina.
 

Hamurabimbi

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I have multiple time & got luckey. No bad outcomes. But it is a risk. It’s mot something I seek out. It just. seemed to happen. Fortunately most of my work environments were ok with office romances.
 

Hamurabimbi

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Think about it:

Bars/Clubs---Generally no good and the odds are stacked against you

OK. Depends on the city.

Online Dating---Generally no good (unless you look like Brad Pitt) and any halfway decent looking woman is getting multiple messages a day.

Was awesome.

Gym---Generally no good since the ratio is 70/30 guys and most women workout with headphones

agree

Meetup.com---Generally no good since the ratio is not in your favor (atleast from the ones I have been to)

It’s OK. Ratio wasn’t too bad.

Church---Not that I have seen (but I guess it depends on your area)

Depends on area!!!

This leaves you with two main options:

1.) Your social circle---Not a woman your best friends knows but usually a friend of a friend's girlfriend's friend (or something like that)

2.) Work---You see the woman frequently and get to know her in a less superficial setting. This is especially true for couples where the female is noticeably better looking. I guarantee they either met at work or their mutual social circle.


I am starting to think work should always be a viable option.
 

corrector

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Think about it:

Bars/Clubs---Generally no good and the odds are stacked against you

Online Dating---Generally no good (unless you look like Brad Pitt) and any halfway decent looking woman is getting multiple messages a day.

Gym---Generally no good since the ratio is 70/30 guys and most women workout with headphones

Meetup.com---Generally no good since the ratio is not in your favor (atleast from the ones I have been to)

Church---Not that I have seen (but I guess it depends on your area)

This leaves you with two main options:

1.) Your social circle---Not a woman your best friends knows but usually a friend of a friend's girlfriend's friend (or something like that)

2.) Work---You see the woman frequently and get to know her in a less superficial setting. This is especially true for couples where the female is noticeably better looking. I guarantee they either met at work or their mutual social circle.


I am starting to think work should always be a viable option.
On top of your gf being on your case to find a job? Then yes. It's better to talk to other women at work so your gf doesn't feel like she's in your face all the time.
 

Bokanovsky

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Only if you work for the CIA..


Marrying Within The CIA Is Encouraged
Many CIA agents speak of the difficulties that come with getting married and the strain their work puts on a marriage. For the benefit of the agency and its employees, the CIA encourages operatives to form relationships with fellow officers. Marrying within the agency is considered a smart career move. Another agent is much less likely to be a security concern.
Retired operative Dayna Baer says, "I think that although it is not ever said internally... having a relationship/marriage with another CIA employee is encouraged. It just makes it easier all around."
Her husband, Robert Baer, also a former operative, adds, "If you're gonna make a clandestine career in the CIA, it's better to have a CIA spouse. You can gossip at night over a glass of wine and not be anguished you're spilling a secret."
Yeah but can you imagine what kind of women go to work for the CIA? You wouldn't want to touch them with someone else's ten foot pole for all sorts of reasons.
 

HaleyBaron

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The odds are stacked against any man, and most men compound the problem by doing bar/club game in the worst way possible. Most men are going out on Friday/Saturday nights, when competition is fiercest. Additionally, when every other beta male is out there approaching women with putrid game on Friday/Saturday night, women tend to get annoyed and closed off to approaches. If a man must do bar/club game, the better choices are later nights Sun-Thurs night or 5-8 PM Happy Hour game on Monday-Thursdays.

A woman who is out at a bar at 11 PM on Tuesday night is more serious about meeting men than one out at 11 PM on Saturday night. The Friday/Saturday night crowd does a lot of attention whorring and gets annoyed by weak beta male approaches with putrid game.
All of this is true.

However, I will personally say that the reason I sometimes go on Fridays and Saturdays is because I enjoy tearing down the walls of all the women getting attention. It's one of my favorite pasttimes.
 

Divorced w 3

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Your post reeks of scarcity mindset and beta male. You're not entirely wrong, but your mindset needs to be altered. You also failed to mention some key daygame venues such as retail stores, malls, grocery stores, and outdoor walking paths/streets as options.



The odds are stacked against any man, and most men compound the problem by doing bar/club game in the worst way possible. Most men are going out on Friday/Saturday nights, when competition is fiercest. Additionally, when every other beta male is out there approaching women with putrid game on Friday/Saturday night, women tend to get annoyed and closed off to approaches. If a man must do bar/club game, the better choices are later nights Sun-Thurs night or 5-8 PM Happy Hour game on Monday-Thursdays.

A woman who is out at a bar at 11 PM on Tuesday night is more serious about meeting men than one out at 11 PM on Saturday night. The Friday/Saturday night crowd does a lot of attention whorring and gets annoyed by weak beta male approaches with putrid game.



This sounds like it was written in 2011 before swipe apps. Swipe apps compounded every bad trend from the 2000s/early 2010s website era of dating.

In the website era, a man was competing with other men in her inbox. Now, not only is a man competing with her swipe app inbox, he's also competing with her swipe app queue of men who could get right swiped on and be a near future volume of new messages.

The swipe apps are the worst thing that can be done.

On Instagram, it's difficult to stand out in the DMs and your own Instagram needs to be on point. You need to have more Followers than account you are Following. If you DM on LinkedIn, you're probably a desperate guy. I've never heard of a LinkedIn DM being perceived positively by any woman, but most women who are semi-active on LinkedIn get sex and date offers in their DMs. Twitter falls somewhere in between Instagram and LinkedIn.



The headphone/earbud issue is the biggest issue in gym game. The workaround to that at the gym is the fitness class scene. Fitness classes are mostly female and approaching is possible because there are no earbuds. However, even with such good ratios, it's quite difficult to get dates at fitness classes. There's a narrow window of 5 mins before and 5 mins after a class to approach. Additionally, women are not very interested in being sociable before or after classes in general.



Most groups are awful. This is typically where desperate guys go to swarm average at best looking women.

Attractive women don't do Meetup.com groups. Attractive women do what's cool/trendy and Meetup.com has never been considered cool/trendy.



Fewer younger people are active in a religion. It might work in a 50+ age bracket.



Social circle is great for getting a girlfriend. Pay close attention to the words "a girlfriend". That means one girlfriend. If you're looking for an extended relationship (2-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is social circle. Many men who get social circle girlfriends tend to retain those girlfriends for a long time and often beyond the useful life of the relationship. A lot of the social circle girlfriend guys are beta males and beta males operate from a scarcity mindset. It's common to see a 10 year relationship (and counting) relationship from social circle which does lead to a marriage proposal.

A social circle introduction is a higher percentage play than a swipe app interaction or approaching a stranger (either in a bar or non-bar setting). It's a more difficult path and it's not a path I recommend highly. Social circle is better in the shorter to medium term. You can get a solid, medium term (1-4 years) girlfriend via social circles more easily than through approaches or swiping more easily.

The problem with social circles becomes sustainability over a longer period of time (5+ years). Social circles have a way of getting pissed off at men who continually exchange girlfriends without marriage or babies, even if the relationships are semi-long (1-4 years). After 2 or so instances of medium term relationships, the social circle will run dry. Social circle is not likely ideal for a serial monogamist who does have extended relationships but doesn't commit or the player type who tends to have relationships of less than 1 year.

In theory, you can fix this problem with relocating and re-creating social circles every so often. In practice, that would never happen. Relocations have a way of ruining social circles. Also, after age 30 at the latest, you're not getting into a good social circle in a new city if you relocate. You can get friends if you relocate after 30 but you're not likely to get a social circle that will provide you introductions to quality girlfriends.

Dating in the workplace is even more problematic than social circle. It's possible to date within your own workplace if you have a McJob that you don't care about keeping. Men with blue collar/manual labor jobs won't have enough female co-workers to even have the option of creating a workplace romance. For men with white collar jobs, this isn't realistic. Men with white collar jobs have to be concerned about the wrath of HR if an approach goes work. Men with white collar jobs will also have to see the woman nearly every day once the interaction goes bad and it will eventually go bad. It could go bad after 1-2 dates or after a 1-2 year extended relationship. That will be unpleasant and likely force you to look for another job. It's always a major inconvenience to look for white collar jobs, regardless of economic conditions, but it is worse in recessionary times. Interview processes take a long time.

There are 3 ways to play the white collar workplace dating game.

1. Use the workplace as a part of social circle game. You could date the friends/acquaintances of your female co-workers. Everything I wrote about social circle game applies to this.

2. Approach women working in the same building as your company, but who work in other companies in that same building. This is a form of daygame cold approach. For this to actually be realistic, you typically need to work in a 10+ floor urban work building with multiple companies in the building. You'll either need to linger in common areas of the building or get some fortunate timing in riding elevators/walking through the common areas of the building. I have gotten numbers and dates by doing this option 2. With more people working at home at least part-time due to the pandemic, these types of interactions are becoming less common.

3. After you give your 2 week notice of resignation, you might be able to hit on women in your company. You might also be able to hit on women after they put in their 2 week notices. This is always challenging to do and getting more challenging with more working at home. I've never done this but I've heard of men using this tactic to get dates.
Beta males are the reason I do so well on Friday and Saturday night at the bar.

a coworker you need to get out to a group happy hour. Then you just get into bar scene mode.
 
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