Marriage and being faithful...

[metalwater]

@metalwater

So he wasn’t perfect. He had to step down as a church elder for example when the infidelity to my mother became known. Hypocrisy and all that.

thanks; I learned something about this from what you write.

For you; is it ok or at least acceptable for your LTR to have a side bet or other women as long as they do everything else you like?

 

[Lynx nkaf]

@metalwater it’s interesting. I personally view alpha as leadership and sex appeal. But to me personally all the traits you mentioned (respect, wisdom, strength and principals) that you say men see as alpha determine leadership.

Status, in a material sense is less important to me.

My father was tall at 6’4” and built like John Wayne...carried himself with that same presence. He was a very successful attorney, argued and won before the US Supreme Court and was appointed as an assistant Attorney General in my state. He was decisive and physically imposing. He was an elder in our church for years and taught an adult Sunday school class for 35 years until he was in his 80s and his health was too poor for him to continue. He was stoic. He never complained, he expected his wife to serve him and cater to him and he made no bones about that. He was an avid reader and was curious & knowledgeable about myriad topics. He was brilliant intellectually. He was beloved and deeply respected by his friends and peers but he was also polarizing, could be an ass hole if necessary and didn’t worry about what people thought. For this reason he was a great leader but a lousy diplomat/politician. He once ran for judge. He would have been an excellent arbiter but he couldn’t pander politically in order to win public favor. He was disappointed that he wasn’t elected and never ran again. There was a county prosecutor who was in his 80s when my father died. He and his wife (also in her 80s who were married 60+ years) drove 9 hours one way to attend my father’s funeral. After the service and reception they drove home 9 hours. People deeply respected my father, as did I.

He was very handsome. Women swooned over him. He was thrice married, and fooled around here & there. His 3rd wife was his mistress while he was married to my mom. My parents were married 20 years (and they were correct to divorce for a number of reasons) and my dad was married to his 3rd wife for 33 years, until his death.

So he wasn’t perfect. He had to step down as a church elder for example when the infidelity to my mother became known. Hypocrisy and all that.

I like the player archetype for a number of reasons. True players handle themselves in a way that creates sexual tension & desire, they do not become clingy or pandering, they cannot be conquered or made to submit to a woman’s will, and I am comfortable with this archetype likely due in part to similarly with my father, I also like the game itself...the psychology is fascinating. It’s not boring. Players also like the chase and the conquest...and not just in the sexual sense. Players are looking, in many cases for a “worthy adversary” (to quote Jordan Peterson) who will fascinate, engage and enthrall him. Also a woman who will have standards and stand up to him. Some are more willing to admit this than others, but a player eventually wants to be understood as a human being as all humans do. People seek relationships for deeper reasons than sex.

I realize that my perspective is different from a man’s in important ways. Those differences shed light on dynamics that may seem obvious to me...but not to a man...

Just as things men think are obvious or universal that may not seem obvious to me.

More shortly...

I thought your parents stayed married-I must have read what I wanted to read back in March sometime, lol, my bad

 

[Roober]

Personally, I'm not in favor of cheating. With that said, I believe cheating is more a product of opportunity than it is of will. If a partner is prone to chatting, they will constantly find themselves in situations which they can perform such an act. This could include one on one times with coworkers, late night happy hours, frequently visiting bars with male friends.

The urge to be with other women will ALWAYS exist. It is your job, if you choose, to honor your commitment to your wife even in the presence of a neverending desire for a younger, alternate, or more beautiful woman.

As far as your current sex life, and your wife's unwillingness to "spice things up", that's on you my friend... Not her. She is living in the frame you set for the relationship, which has had a lack of passion in the bedroom from the beginning or has slipped into your current state. There are several tactics you can employ to loosen her up, but it won't happen overnight.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

She is living in the frame you set for the relationship, which has had a lack of passion in the bedroom from the beginning or has slipped into your current state.

You’re missing the point. It’s not an issue of him setting the frame, it’s an issue of compatibility. He thought he and his wife were compatible with each other and did so because he thought she was a great woman due to how she seemed on paper (she seemed good on paper due to the strong independent woman narrative society spews making him think she was better than she really is).

The issue here isn’t his frame, if anything I’d say it’s on point considering that he was able to get a woman so easily when he and her were separated before. The real issue is, they never should have gotten married in the first place. He thought she was better than she really was due to social conditioning. That’s it. It has nothing to do with frame, or how he set the relationship standards in the beginning. If a woman were to not comply with your standards as a man, then most of us here would just drop her and walk away. She is one of those. Some women are simply defective and will just not change. You people need to read between the lines more.

 

[BeExcellent]

For you; is it ok or at least acceptable for your LTR to have a side bet or other women as long as they do everything else you like?

Outside of an exclusive, committed relationship there is not the expectation of exclusivity. There cannot be, and that goes both ways. I don’t like to be sexual with multiple men at a time so I will walk before I will get into sexual involvement with someone else...and this can appear to be exclusivity on my part...it isn’t. My recent ex BF would become very jealous if I had “plans” or a date with another man. I’d simply say “are we exclusive?” and he’d balk...and I’d say “Ok. I am free to do as you do.” and I would go on the date or etc. Those are the rules of engagement he set up via his behavior. Ok. I get to do as I please just as he does, irrespective of insult to his ego.

There are two things that I will not tolerate in a relationship. The two things are deception and double standards. So even if I greatly enjoy a man’s company but he will not grant exclusivity? That’s fine. I will then be open to meeting other men...since he continues to keep his options open. Fine. But so too will I. If I discover that a man is deceiving me (for example to try and gain my exclusivity under false pretenses whilst actually still seeing or banging other women), which has happened...then he damages the trust in the relationship and I withdraw or eventually end the relationship. I realize that is a plate breaking in red pill parlance. I will communicate the issue and I may allow him an opportunity to adjust or change his behavior...but I will not remain in a relationship that is built on deception or the expectation of double standards. Real relationships can’t survive lies and double standards. That’s not how they are built.

Invariably and I mean Invariably once a man realizes I have truly withdrawn or walked away he comes back. And he comes back with greater respect for me than before. And he wants to try again, restart, figure it out, or whatever. He is ardent. I’ve never taken a man back after I’ve truly walked away. I give patience and understanding in my relationships for men have different flaws and different demons to grow through and overcome within themselves. A number of players have tried to play me over time. They end up losing me...and because of the nature of the relationship dynamic they end up hurt or heartbroken because I required of them emotional vulnerability, attachment, investment evidenced by their behavior, and I have standards and boundaries I uphold. They catch serious feelings. They do in fact love me but mistake my patience with them for weakness...or in the case of my recent ex, BF they assume they have me always...for they’ve always had women tolerate their behavior. And when they realize I’m gone (because in the end I simply fall silent and walk away without fanfare) they freak.

And suddenly they end up with the kind of oneitis that means I become “the one that got away...”. I’m still acquainted with a player who admits I’m the one who got away from him 30 years ago. He still loves me but were we to date again, it couldn’t be casual (His words not mine). He’s since been twice married and twice divorced.

The other thing that invariably happens is I meet someone else once I leave a relationship. I’ve already met half a dozen or so high value men in the couple of months since the break up...one in particular I find rather interesting. He has asked me out but we have not yet gotten together.

Plates break. That is a well known phenomenon around here. Great women won’t tolerate plate status forever, although it might be Ok for a bit (from my perspective) so long as things are deepening and progressing. I’m not dead set on getting married again for asset protection reasons and since I’m finished with child bearing. So I’ll tolerate plate or main plate status for longer than I might otherwise so long as I enjoy the man in question.

But what I most value is intimacy, real love, meaningful partnership and a life partner. After a time those values do not line up with plate status...

And that’s Ok. A man must ask himself what he values and why. I know many players who are friends who I have no interest in getting involved with. They all say the exact same thing...novelty is empty after a while. It is meaningless.

Sexual conquest is fun, according to them, and it is just as compelling a dopamine hit in the moment as gambling, alcohol, drugs or any other addictive behavior. I would suggest it is more compelling in some ways...But then the initial high goes away and these men find they are involved with someone they might not like...despite beauty & great sex...

My recent ex is fvcking various women for example, enjoying the infatuation, validation and ego boost that brings him...but he also experiences depression, loneliness and emptiness because he is trying to fill a void in himself with sexual involvement and attention from external sources...and it will never fulfill him.

He is deeply unhappy. And he will always be unhappy deep down until he heals himself and develops the ability to be honest with himself.

But that is his problem. Not mine.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

The problem with that line of thinking is that today's men have been conditioned to "want" a mommy they can have sex with.

What men need to do, instead of focusing on their programmed desires, is to realize what they need in a wife...not a "partner." What a man needs in a wife is someone who makes sure the kids are bathed, properly attired, and fed, and that the house is a comfortable home. Whether or not she fulfills all his porn-fueled sexual fantasies is largely irrelevant, and if he wants a woman to take care of him, as if he were one of the children, then he isn't ready to marry anyone.

A man needs a wife who can be counted on to do all the above, and to either be an asset to his rise through the ranks, or to, at least, not obstruct his path. A man should be able to climb the ladder no less swiftly with a family than as a single man. With men, whether or not to lead is not an option. With women, the options are follow or get out of the way.

It actually should be quicker because wife can manage affairs on the home front. You wont need to waste time on women unless its work related.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

That's the ideal wife. However, just not being an obstacle is the minimum any man should tolerate.

She better figure out how she can help. A good wife will be adding to and increasing your social image, intentionally.

A bad wife will decrease it. A bad wife wont care about your social image and often making herself look better at your expense.

 

[Lynx nkaf]

The problem with that line of thinking is that today's men have been conditioned to "want" a mommy they can have sex with.

What men need to do, instead of focusing on their programmed desires, is to realize what they need in a wife...not a "partner." What a man needs in a wife is someone who makes sure the kids are bathed, properly attired, and fed, and that the house is a comfortable home. Whether or not she fulfills all his porn-fueled sexual fantasies is largely irrelevant, and if he wants a woman to take care of him, as if he were one of the children, then he isn't ready to marry anyone.

A man needs a wife who can be counted on to do all the above, and to either be an asset to his rise through the ranks, or to, at least, not obstruct his path. A man should be able to climb the ladder no less swiftly with a family than as a single man. With men, whether or not to lead is not an option. With women, the options are follow or get out of the way.

excellent, Shepays

 

[metalwater]

Outside of an exclusive, committed relationship there is not the expectation of exclusivity. There cannot be, and that goes both ways. I don’t like to be sexual with multiple men at a time so I will walk before I will get into sexual involvement with someone else...and this can appear to be exclusivity on my part...it isn’t. My recent ex BF would become very jealous if I had “plans” or a date with another man. I’d simply say “are we exclusive?” and he’d balk...and I’d say “Ok. I am free to do as you do.” and I would go on the date or etc. Those are the rules of engagement he set up via his behavior. Ok. I get to do as I please just as he does, irrespective of insult to his ego.

There are two things that I will not tolerate in a relationship. The two things are deception and double standards. So even if I greatly enjoy a man’s company but he will not grant exclusivity? That’s fine. I will then be open to meeting other men...since he continues to keep his options open. Fine. But so too will I. If I discover that a man is deceiving me (for example to try and gain my exclusivity under false pretenses whilst actually still seeing or banging other women), which has happened...then he damages the trust in the relationship and I withdraw or eventually end the relationship. I realize that is a plate breaking in red pill parlance. I will communicate the issue and I may allow him an opportunity to adjust or change his behavior...but I will not remain in a relationship that is built on deception or the expectation of double standards. Real relationships can’t survive lies and double standards. That’s not how they are built.

Invariably and I mean Invariably once a man realizes I have truly withdrawn or walked away he comes back. And he comes back with greater respect for me than before. And he wants to try again, restart, figure it out, or whatever. He is ardent. I’ve never taken a man back after I’ve truly walked away. I give patience and understanding in my relationships for men have different flaws and different demons to grow through and overcome within themselves. A number of players have tried to play me over time. They end up losing me...and because of the nature of the relationship dynamic they end up hurt or heartbroken because I required of them emotional vulnerability, attachment, investment evidenced by their behavior, and I have standards and boundaries I uphold. They catch serious feelings. They do in fact love me but mistake my patience with them for weakness...or in the case of my recent ex, BF they assume they have me always...for they’ve always had women tolerate their behavior. And when they realize I’m gone (because in the end I simply fall silent and walk away without fanfare) they freak.

And suddenly they end up with the kind of oneitis that means I become “the one that got away...”. I’m still acquainted with a player who admits I’m the one who got away from him 30 years ago. He still loves me but were we to date again, it couldn’t be casual (His words not mine). He’s since been twice married and twice divorced.

The other thing that invariably happens is I meet someone else once I leave a relationship. I’ve already met half a dozen or so high value men in the couple of months since the break up...one in particular I find rather interesting. He has asked me out but we have not yet gotten together.

Plates break. That is a well known phenomenon around here. Great women won’t tolerate plate status forever, although it might be Ok for a bit (from my perspective) so long as things are deepening and progressing. I’m not dead set on getting married again for asset protection reasons and since I’m finished with child bearing. So I’ll tolerate plate or main plate status for longer than I might otherwise so long as I enjoy the man in question.

But what I most value is intimacy, real love, meaningful partnership and a life partner. After a time those values do not line up with plate status...

And that’s Ok. A man must ask himself what he values and why. I know many players who are friends who I have no interest in getting involved with. They all say the exact same thing...novelty is empty after a while. It is meaningless.

Sexual conquest is fun, according to them, and it is just as compelling a dopamine hit in the moment as gambling, alcohol, drugs or any other addictive behavior. I would suggest it is more compelling in some ways...But then the initial high goes away and these men find they are involved with someone they might not like...despite beauty & great sex...

My recent ex is fvcking various women for example, enjoying the infatuation, validation and ego boost that brings him...but he also experiences depression, loneliness and emptiness because he is trying to fill a void in himself with sexual involvement and attention from external sources...and it will never fulfill him.

He is deeply unhappy. And he will always be unhappy deep down until he heals himself and develops the ability to be honest with himself.

But that is his problem. Not mine.

that is a great post. your reasoning and choice is different than mine would be; but consistent with what I perceive from other women around me. I assume you're happy with your setup and I don't see you complaining in any post hear so maybe yes. Obviously you know that the type you accept has the attributes that you like and don't like; always and will be a revolving door until the end, no life partner(would be happy to be wrong on that) it seems really clear. thanks for sharing.

can I dig more... it is interesting to me and you like some others write well.

what is your definition of high-value man in terms of the following; I mean what is the baseline that if below that you will avoid.
- wealth(money, assets) My guess is it needs to be more than you have and that shrinks the field.
- height(think you told needs to be tall like your Dad was)
- Physical.
- Age Range for men (I think you might be in the early 50s...)
- other... what is the no way items(Drug addict, dealer...??, others)

 

[Roober]

You’re missing the point. It’s not an issue of him setting the frame, it’s an issue of compatibility. He thought he and his wife were compatible with each other and did so because he thought she was a great woman due to how she seemed on paper (she seemed good on paper due to the strong independent woman narrative society spews making him think she was better than she really is).

The issue here isn’t his frame, if anything I’d say it’s on point considering that he was able to get a woman so easily when he and her were separated before. The real issue is, they never should have gotten married in the first place. He thought she was better than she really was due to social conditioning. That’s it. It has nothing to do with frame, or how he set the relationship standards in the beginning. If a woman were to not comply with your standards as a man, then most of us here would just drop her and walk away. She is one of those. Some women are simply defective and will just not change. You people need to read between the lines more.

Maybe I missed something in the 13 pages, but what I see in the OP is him looking for a side piece because she refuses to loosen up in the bedroom.

You think she changed.
I think he no longer makes her pu$$y wet.

A woman's desire for a man is directly proportional to her respect and admiration for him. Since sex has been stale for years, but not from the beginning, it's very likely that his lack of enthusiasm, drive, or whatever else sent her pu$$y on a camping trip to Death Valley.

People don't often make wholesale character changes. What usually happens is the mask comes off after marriage, and one party is left disappointed. If they have indeed separated before (I only read the OP), it's a testament to their commitment to each other, which is currently standing on shaky ground.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Since sex has been stale for years, but not from the beginning

Maybe I missed something in the 13 pages, but what I see in the OP is him looking for a side piece because she refuses to loosen up in the bedroom.

Yeah, that’s what you missed. It was mostly in the first few pages.

The sex has always been this way. It hasn’t been from a lack of interest, it’s that she doesn’t want to try new things. Having sex the same way with the same person for over a decade gets stale, and she doesn’t want to change. You obviously don’t bring in the kink the very first time you meet someone, you typically ease it in. She doesn’t want any of it because she’s selfish, that’s basically it.