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Let’s Settle This Once and for All! Direct AND Indirect Approaches!(Intent)

nicksaiz65

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I’d say this is a pretty important topic. I’ve been fortunate enough to spend a good amount of time in the field lately. This is something that comes up again and again, so it’s time to fully get it clarified. Time to make an official official thread on this. I’ve had some good successes with Direct Game, but I want to know Indirect Game too. You don’t want to be Direct/Bull in a China Shop all the time imo.

I know a lot of dating coaches basically teach exclusively direct game(my theory for this is that it makes for much more entertaining videos.) But I’ve always thought, it’s not practical to go direct 100% of the time, sometimes direct does have its disadvantages or it isn’t the most useful tool at the moment.

So, I was wondering a few things. First of all, how/what are you guys doing your indirect approaches like? (I’m essentially going to do them the same way that Roosh describes it in his books.) I’d be interested to see how you all do it.

Second, and here’s the biggest one that trips me up. Other than just straight up subcomms, how do you make sure that the girl knows that you like her as more than a friend: that it’s not platonic? That there is “intent,” as you could say?

I want to be able to do indirect approaches for sure as well. But several of the girls I approached indirectly, and was even able to go on dates with: I’m like man, I don’t know if this girl thinks this is friendly or not. Some of these were Insta-dates(come get a coffee with me right now!), some were not. I know some on here have said that I can show more intent over time over the date through statements and what not, even if I start off indirect.

Or another thing that would happen, sometimes in the indirect approach I would get “stuck” and not know how to move the interaction forward from there.

I’ve always been like, I don’t want the girl to be shocked when I escalate on her, after doing an indirect approach. Or to be like “Surprise, I have a pen1s!”

Roosh has said that near the end of your indirect approach before you close, you should throw in a “Statement of Intent” so she knows you’re not just a friendly, chatty guy. Something along the lines of “you have a great vibe” or “you actually are really cute.” Hopefully that will be enough.

And the final point… I’ve heard some dating coaches say that indirect openers such as “Where is the nearest coffee shop” are totally cringe. That you should always show intent off the bat instead, or you’ll just be in a half hour conversation to nowhere. Thoughts?

I’ll be doing some more indirect approaches in the future. So definitely wanted to hash these thoughts out and get some more SS opinions!
 
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Chuck Taylor

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Direct. Show intent right off the bat. If she won't give you her number, she's not interested. This sh*t is simple. Guys only recommend indirect because they're afraid of getting flat-out rejected.

If she wants to fvck you, and trust me, she knows whether she wants to or not in the first 5 seconds of laying eyes on you, she'll give you her phone #, agree to an insta-date, whatever, after the direct approach.
 

SW15

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First of all, how/what are you guys doing your indirect approaches like? (I’m essentially going to do them the same way that Roosh describes it in his books.) I’d be interested to see how you all do it.

Second, and here’s the biggest one that trips me up. Other than just straight up subcomms, how do you make sure that the girl knows that you like her as more than a friend: that it’s not platonic? That there is “intent,” as you could say?
Over time, I have used the indirect method Roosh highlight in "Day Bang" mainly in retail outlets.

Remember GALNUC. C = Cool. You seem cool. Let's have a drink sometime. What's a time that's good for you? When a man asks a woman out for a drink, that's not friends. That's a guy looking to get his dicck wet. You're overthinking it.

Or another thing that would happen, sometimes in the indirect approach I would get “stuck” and not know how to move the interaction forward from there.
If an indirect approach gets stuck, you're most likely dealing with a low interest woman provided that you have some sort of social skill.

Roosh has said that near the end of your indirect approach before you close, you should throw in a “Statement of Intent” so she knows you’re not just a friendly, chatty guy. Something along the lines of “you have a great vibe” or “you actually are really cute.” Hopefully that will be enough.

I’ve always been like, I don’t want the girl to be shocked when I escalate on her, after doing an indirect approach. Or to be like “Surprise, I have a pen1s!”
I've never experienced shock on an escalation. Yes, an intent statement or action would be good. Especially an intent action.

I’ve heard some dating coaches say that indirect openers such as “Where is the nearest coffee shop” are totally cringe. That you should always show intent off the bat instead, or you’ll just be in a half hour conversation to nowhere. Thoughts?
Google killed that possible line. Same with the pet shop bit.
 

nicksaiz65

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Direct. Show intent right off the bat. If she won't give you her number, she's not interested. This sh*t is simple. Guys only recommend indirect because they're afraid of getting flat-out rejected.

If she wants to fvck you, and trust me, she knows whether she wants to or not in the first 5 seconds of laying eyes on you, she'll give you her phone #, agree to an insta-date, whatever, after the direct approach.
I do like the direct approach for the reasons that you listed as well.

You make a good point about women knowing if they would fvck you in the first 5-10 seconds.
 

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nicksaiz65

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Over time, I have used the indirect method Roosh highlight in "Day Bang" mainly in retail outlets.

Remember GALNUC. C = Cool. You seem cool. Let's have a drink sometime. What's a time that's good for you? When a man asks a woman out for a drink, that's not friends. That's a guy looking to get his dicck wet. You're overthinking it.



If an indirect approach gets stuck, you're most likely dealing with a low interest woman provided that you have some sort of social skill.



I've never experienced shock on an escalation. Yes, an intent statement or action would be good. Especially an intent action.



Google killed that possible line. Same with the pet shop bit.
Ah, so that’s it. Awesome lol.

When I indirect approach, I’ll just basically follow Roosh’s guidelines to the tee and not try to mix a ton of styles.

I like how you told me in the past that inviting her to your house/room is obviously showing intent as well.

Yeah, those lines are unfortunately pretty much unusable now:lol:
 

Striker_93

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If youre handsome, high status, popular, cool, swaggering, fly ect then go direct everytime....

Women know only the most confident men directly hit on them and approach them so if you do this it shows how cool and confident you are, it also shows that you have plenty of past positive experience with women because why else would you be so bold ?

None of that weak passive pvssy footing around, Be direct and show intent.....
 

Pan87

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I’d say this is a pretty important topic. I’ve been fortunate enough to spend a good amount of time in the field lately. This is something that comes up again and again, so it’s time to fully get it clarified. Time to make an official official thread on this. I’ve had some good successes with Direct Game, but I want to know Indirect Game too. You don’t want to be Direct/Bull in a China Shop all the time imo.

I know a lot of dating coaches basically teach exclusively direct game(my theory for this is that it makes for much more entertaining videos.) But I’ve always thought, it’s not practical to go direct 100% of the time, sometimes direct does have its disadvantages or it isn’t the most useful tool at the moment.

So, I was wondering a few things. First of all, how/what are you guys doing your indirect approaches like? (I’m essentially going to do them the same way that Roosh describes it in his books.) I’d be interested to see how you all do it.

Second, and here’s the biggest one that trips me up. Other than just straight up subcomms, how do you make sure that the girl knows that you like her as more than a friend: that it’s not platonic? That there is “intent,” as you could say?

I want to be able to do indirect approaches for sure as well. But several of the girls I approached indirectly, and was even able to go on dates with: I’m like man, I don’t know if this girl thinks this is friendly or not. Some of these were Insta-dates(come get a coffee with me right now!), some were not. I know some on here have said that I can show more intent over time over the date through statements and what not, even if I start off indirect.

Or another thing that would happen, sometimes in the indirect approach I would get “stuck” and not know how to move the interaction forward from there.

I’ve always been like, I don’t want the girl to be shocked when I escalate on her, after doing an indirect approach. Or to be like “Surprise, I have a pen1s!”

Roosh has said that near the end of your indirect approach before you close, you should throw in a “Statement of Intent” so she knows you’re not just a friendly, chatty guy. Something along the lines of “you have a great vibe” or “you actually are really cute.” Hopefully that will be enough.

And the final point… I’ve heard some dating coaches say that indirect openers such as “Where is the nearest coffee shop” are totally cringe. That you should always show intent off the bat instead, or you’ll just be in a half hour conversation to nowhere. Thoughts?

I’ll be doing some more indirect approaches in the future. So definitely wanted to hash these thoughts out and get some more SS opinions!
You “directly” approach her, but you never directly complement her beauty or directly display sexual intentions. So it’s a combination of a directly approaching her because something about her caught your eye (not her beauty), then it’s gauging her vibe, eye contact and flirting, and then get her number.

I think indirect “where’s the nearest coffee shop” approaches aren’t that effective.
 

SW15

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I think indirect “where’s the nearest coffee shop” approaches aren’t that effective.
I doubt that they were very effective 15-20 years ago before smartphones and Google were everywhere either, but they've been less effective in the smartphone era. I never used those.

There are indirect approaches that can be effective. In "Day Bang", Roosh did mention the "Is that good?" routine, which is starting a conversation based upon something in her grocery store cart/basket. That type of approach still has the potential to be effective now. You could still do the "buying gift for a sister/female cousin" routine in a mall shop and get a non-employee female's opinion on it. However, a lot of females wouldn't necessarily have the patience for that.

You “directly” approach her, but you never directly complement her beauty or directly display sexual intentions. So it’s a combination of a directly approaching her because something about her caught your eye (not her beauty), then it’s gauging her vibe, eye contact and flirting, and then get her number.
I have done approaches based on the color combination of the clothes she's worn or some wording on her shirts (college shirts are some of the easiest to do approaches off of).
 

stringpuller

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So, I was wondering a few things. First of all, how/what are you guys doing your indirect approaches like? (I’m essentially going to do them the same way that Roosh describes it in his books.) I’d be interested to see how you all do it
Day Bang is good. I just talk to them and guage interest.

Heres my notes on this in a nutshell. Rough outline.
Hit and runs

1. Open. (Situational)

2. Stacking (What I noticed about you) observations. (Say what you see) You are wearing all black, you look like a lawyer

3. Vibing (off what she said) listen.
Listen for the hook. "When I think of France"
4. Invest. Get her to invest. Open ended Questions 6-7 minutes
"What do you like best about"
"Why did you move from (This Place to that Place)
"What do you do for fun"?


5. Close strong.

These templates can be ditched after your comfort level goes up.
You will never fully get rid of Approach Anxiety. If someone tells you that they are full of shyt.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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There's no two ways about it. Like writing a program. You have a framework.

Personally I go indirect but indirect /direct. It still needs to be man to woman. On spring break or Vaca, I would be more direct and flash game.

It's not a either or. There's more then 1 way to Crack an egg. Field test. Try new things. See what works. Build processes but font lose the human element.

There's a aspect of randomness that you cannot shake. You just increase probability 8n your favor putting your best foot forward.
 

Velasco

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I always open indirect. Something about our shared environment. In response to this, see her eyes/feel her vibe (I mean its kinda automatic (least it should be) but I'm just typing it out). From this read, if you feel like she likes you, then keep flirting with her (no need for compliments outta nowhere to "show intent". Obviously she knows your flirting back with her (she knows that you read her vibe correctly, and will thus respond as such).
 

Rainman4707

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Sounds to me you're way overthinking it. Indirect or direct dosent matter how i approach. Go for what you want. Who cares what she thinks.
 

Chuck Taylor

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Below is a cool "direct approach" from a seasoned successful PUA. And he got her number.

****

Him: I spot a petite Mediterranean looking girl walking along. She has an awesome figure, and I'm having naughty thoughts. I catch up to her, stop her, and use the tried and tested opener 'Excuse me, I just noticed you walking past, and I thought you looked really nice'.

Her: *Silence. *Blank stare.

Him: Usually a woman will thank me for the compliment. This one seemed a bit overwhelmed. Yet, on a street stop, a man must be ready to fill a whole minute of silence if necessary. So, I persisted: 'I like how relaxed you looked. You were walking along like there isn't a care in the world.'

Her: *More silence*

Him: 'It's different, because normally people walk like they're on some kind of secret mission. Like there's some sort of big rush. But you were very chilled out. Like maybe you do yoga and meditation, or maybe you have figured out the key to eternal happiness, and you can...'

Her: 'I take zumba classes'

Him: Thank god, she had finally piped up. We had a decent chat, but she started to panic at the number close..

Her: I'm really busy...

Him: Aren't we all? This life stuff is hard work. Tell you what, give me your number, and I'll invite you out, and you can decide then.

So I got her number. Probably won't go anywhere, but it was just the first approach, and there are plenty more where she came from...
That guy sure does talk a lot. His final line that starts with 'Aren't we all? .....' sounds desperate AF. He's begging her, at this point, for her time and attention.
 

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oldmanofthesea

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First of all, how/what are you guys doing your indirect approaches like? (I’m essentially going to do them the same way that Roosh describes it in his books.) I’d be interested to see how you all do it.
I read Roosh's book and while I thought he had a lot of good ideas on mindset (for example, his comments on how we men reject hundreds or thousands of women each day because we are the initiators and there are many women we aren't interested in so we reject them by simply not approaching, and his comments around how even if a woman might be interested in you normally, she might already have too many guys she is juggling so don't see it as a rejection etc), I am not a fan of his weird approach methods of asking for directions and then effectively criticizing her response by politely saying it's not good enough or not what you were looking for. If a stranger stopped me and asked me for advice and I gave it to them and they were like, "No... I was hoping for something more ______" I'd be dismissive and keep walking.

I usually use direct approach in circumstances where there isn't a lot of opportunity to discuss something relevant to us or the situation. An example is if I see a woman walking down a sidewalk and she's moving pretty quickly and I have to step in front of her (from 10 yards a way) to stop her and get her attention. For that situation, I feel you really need to go direct as anything else is going to feel disingenuous and awkward. "Excuse me, I couldn't help but notice how incredible you looked in those jeans and I wanted meet you." We have been brainwashed to believe that kind of approach is toxic, wrong, or that women won't like it but it's just not true. 99% of women are flattered and respond positively (doesn't mean they will agree to a date of course).

If you are at a concert or show or shopping in a specialty store, there is some basis for mutual interest and you can approach indirectly in those situations. A couple years ago I was at the grocery store and an extremely young looking 23yo in yoga tights was looking at the organic nut butter selection just as I was. She looked 19 at best. So I started conversation about how hard it was to find nut butters without sugar and the conversation went on from there. The whole conversation was indirect and after a while, I simply said, "Well listen, it's been great talking with you but I need to run. We should get together for a coffee sometime." She smiled and said, "Sure!" so I asked for her number, she gave it to me, and I texted her about 5 days later to set up the date which she agreed to.

One thing I really like about direct approaches is that I find women act more at-ease and are more receptive to talking because there is no mystery about your true intentions. Women are under a lot of pressure when you start indirect conversations because they are nervous about your intentions - is he a pan-handler? Is he a scammer? Is he a rapist? Is he a complete whacko? Does he just want directions? Is he interested in me romantically? I find whether I am direct or indirect, usually during my first sentence women look at me wide eyed like "oh my god WTF is about to happen," and if I am indirect, there is sometimes a layer of tension that remains. It's not always bad - it depends on the circumstances and the woman. But if I am direct, I can usually see a visible exhale of relief combined with some amount of positive feelings (you just flattered her). And at this point, even if she has a boyfriend, she now feels at ease, she knows why you are there, she feels good feelings because of your compliment, and she is open to having a dialogue with you. Tension is not always a bad thing - it can be very useful, but we are talking about 101 level stuff here so I won't get into that just now.

Another example of a direct approach (though this was a warm approach) - I was at Target and noticed a ~28yo girl who was just my type checking me out as she passed me by. She was staring so intently at me that she didn't even register that I noticed her doing it and when it finally clicked in her mind, she looked down sheepishly and kept going. I should have stopped her right there but I just didn't so I went about my shopping. When I went to check out, she was also at another checkout and I ensured I finished before she did. Then I went outside to the sidewalk right by the exit door and waited for her. As she came out, I walked right up to her and said, "Excuse me, I know it's a bit strange to just walk up to a stranger in front of a Target like this but you caught my eye in the store and I knew I'd kick myself if I didn't take the opportunity to meet you." She smiled broadly and said surprised, "Oh, wow... ok!" and we had a great 10 minute conversation right there in the flow of people exiting the store. The vibe was great. A lot of smiling and good conversation. I told her I had to go but that we should grab a drink sometime soon, got her number, and setup the date. Made out with her on the date within 15 minutes of getting there (which was a record for me).

Most men are afraid to be direct because they think it's wrong and that women don't like it. You owe it to yourself to TRY direct approach just so you can eliminate that brainwashing and better understand how woman truly think and work and respond.
 

oldmanofthesea

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Second, and here’s the biggest one that trips me up. Other than just straight up subcomms, how do you make sure that the girl knows that you like her as more than a friend: that it’s not platonic? That there is “intent,” as you could say?

I don’t want the girl to be shocked when I escalate on her
You don't have to worry about it. If she is interested, she is interested. If she is not, she is not. Most women know that any guy who stops them to talk is likely interested in her vagina. Or at least that they are PROBABLY interested in her vagina. If she is going to reject you, it doesn't matter if she does it in the first 5 seconds, or at the end of a 5-15 minute conversation. And no, if she rejects you at the end of the conversation you didn't waste your time because you just gained a lot of experience and practice that you will keep forever. The more practice you get, the better you get, and the more comfortable you get. 90% of game improvement comes not from learning the right thing to say (that's the other 10%) but from literally undoing years of brainwashing and biology that tell you women don't want to be approached or that women don't want you to be direct with them or say this or that to them etc. Each and every conversation you have with a woman moves you further along toward this goal.

Or another thing that would happen, sometimes in the indirect approach I would get “stuck” and not know how to move the interaction forward from there.
Use a framework if you get stuck. The one I use is to ask a general question, then ask something specific about her answer to that question, then ask how she FEELS about it or how it makes her feel or why she likes it does it etc, then say something about yourself that is relatable to it. Lastly, if you feel you are really out of things to say and have been talking for at least a couple minutes, you can tell her you are in a hurry to get somewhere but that you'd like to continue the conversation and ask for her number. But, you should never run out of things to say - that is a skill in of itself. You can practice this conversation skill on strangers - men and women alike.

Roosh has said that near the end of your indirect approach before you close, you should throw in a “Statement of Intent” so she knows you’re not just a friendly, chatty guy. Something along the lines of “you have a great vibe” or “you actually are really cute.” Hopefully that will be enough.
You can but I haven't found I need to. "You have a great vibe" could be interpreted as platonic. If you are asking her for her number under the pretense of setting up a drink date or coffee date, she knows you think she "has a great vibe" and are interested in her. If she is really confused and clueless or you've not acted flirty in any way at all, maybe she is still unsure, but if she is attracted to you, that won't matter - she will want to go out with you in order to find out if you are interested in her romantically or not. She can't help it. If I go indirect, I smile a lot and have good eye contact. Women know why I'm talking to them. They know I think they are cute or I wouldn't have stopped them so no additional flattery/validation is needed. Having them wonder a BIT is good.

And the final point… I’ve heard some dating coaches say that indirect openers such as “Where is the nearest coffee shop” are totally cringe. That you should always show intent off the bat instead, or you’ll just be in a half hour conversation to nowhere. Thoughts?
THAT one is cringe. But whether direct or indirect, there is no excuse for being on a conversation to nowhere. You can absolutely guide it. Just follow this: If you see a girl and can immediately think of some commonality (you are both looking at Christmas trees or you are both waiting in a long line for the same thing or you are both walking your dogs), start indirect conversation with that common topic. If you can't immediately think of a common ground, go direct.

One last point, I find it helps to qualify a direct approach by explaining that you are aware it's "unusual" to just stop a girl randomly. Because it is. It doesn't mean it's wrong to do it, it just means men have been brainwashed into thinking it's not ok and that women don't like it, so now it has become very rare. By explaining to the woman that you understand this, it qualifies you as being a calibrated, sane, not socially awkward or crazy person, and this really helps. I did this in my Target approach example I referenced above.
 

Chuck Taylor

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I once had a man approach me at a Hallmark store asking me if I could help him select a birthday card for his girlfriend! Lol

I told him I wish I could but was in a rush and he kept pestering me...

Whatever you do, do NOT use that line or approach (about having a gf) although tbh if I were attracted to him, I may have helped him.
This is the key right here. it all boils down to instant physical attraction. There's no such thing as 'indirect gaming' of a girl.
 

SW15

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I once had a man approach me at a Hallmark store asking me if I could help him select a birthday card for his girlfriend! Lol

I told him I wish I could but was in a rush...

Whatever you do, do NOT use that line or approach (about having a gf) although tbh if I were attracted to him, I may have helped him.
That could have worked if he said sister or cousin.
 
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