Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Kill that desperation!

Pook

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I get chicks left and right and it is precisely because I am not 'philosophy'izing everything.

What was the Nice Guy's problem? Philosophy. He had a set 'philosophy'. It doesn't get the girl. But Nice Guys do get married and they can be wonderful for long term relationships. This works if the woman doesn't take advantage of him. The Nice Guy goes into long term relationship (one-itis) mode right at the beginning. And we know the Nice Guy has many other problems, but his stupid philosophy is what is keeping him down.

Like the Nice Guy, eventually you'll find that philosophy didn't free you but caused the badly run course.

People around here are treating dating and sex and women like it is some university degree. IT IS NOT THAT HARD. You will find complete and absolute idiots, who have never come to this page, who have never read anything on seduction, but are able to pull in more women then you can dream. Why? Because they simply are being.

Take a guy who goes over to a girl's house. The girl is wearing very little and is in total seduction mode. Now, what philosophy does SHE have? Did she have to read internet posts over and over to do what she is doing? Of course not. She simply is. She is being woman.

It is the same thing with men. At first, the 'rules' and all strike such a chord because they defy all the Nice Guy philosophy you've had in your head. The concepts of being a 'challenge' and being 'a prize' begin to be the guideposts in your new philosophy. But eventually the guideposts go away until you are completely natural. It is not because you have adapted to a philosophy completely (nature does not follow philosophy), it is because you've begun to fully *move* in Nature's music.

Is there is a philosophy on raising a baby? Of course there are many. But to what end? Babies have always been raised, quite well, since forever.

Is there a philosophy on making love? Absurdly, there is. There seems to be countless books on it, treating sex, something totally natural, like a univerity degree.

The Nice Guy thought too much. He was never being natural. He thought "I will give them what women want" rather than being a man. No wonder he cannot understand why the girl goes for the 'jerk' and leaves his stupid 'philosophical' mind behind!

You are thinking too much. You do not need to read sosuave.com posts multiple times. You do not need to be on this forum day after day. Here, you can only be shown the path. But you must walk it. The answers are out there. So turn off the computer right now and go live.

------------------
Pook
Never fear success.

[This message has been edited by Pook (edited 07-05-2002).]
 

Revelry

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All,

I find myself agreeing and disagreeing with the previous posts in this thread on the attitude of a happy man, for that is what the thread is striving towards answering.
Incidentally, is that the definition of a Don Juan - i.e. a happy man? Is there actually a definition of a Don Juan, or is it an individual issue?... I'll come back to that one.

Through this thread, we see the evolution of the chap called Pook... from someone who realises something is missing in his life, to someone who is content with his attitude (Note: attitude, not life - the attitude of moving along the path to complete happiness).

The first few Pook-posts detail guideposts. The last one emphasises that the best way to be, is to be without guideposts.

I will attempt to illustrate this thread using a story.


________________________________________________________________________________________

A child is living in a forest. The forest seems to have no end, and the light of day (a.k.a. happiness) touches the ground infrequently.
The child grows up in this forest, seeing only trees. Stories are told of far-off roads, where the vista is long and the sun shines brightly. But the child thinks of these as only dreams. They are not real to him yet.

The child grows into a young man, and becomes disillusioned with the trees... he wants to see what more he can get from life (the push factor), and dreams of the open vistas and travelling far distances he has come to know through others stories (the pull factor). So he goes through the forest, searching for help.


A sprite called Pook comes along (for this thread, anyway!), and gives the young man some tools, designed to help him find his way out of the forest. These tools include maps, with guideposts on them, detailing the best route to take (not necessarily the easiest route, but the one that will lead to the true sunlight).

The young man has to pluck up the courage to leave his comfort-zone behind, and follow the guideposts. In order to do this, the 'push and pull' factors must outweigh the fear.

Slowly the trees thin, and the light (happiness) shines through more and more. As the child sees further and further ahead, he finds he does not need the guideposts, and throws the map away.
He is in charge of his own destiny, and has the confidence and vision to take hold of that destiny. He is making his own life philosophy. He does not need anyone else's philosophy, and cannot understand why others are hankering after it.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Now admittedly, that isn't the best allegory in the world. But I think it shows what has happened to Pook here... you have reached the edge of the forest, realised what can be achieved, and have set off on your life, living it according to yourself. And congratulations to you.



Going back to the 'definition of a Don Juan' issue... in my view, the best definition is 'a man travelling along the road to happiness'. That may be through work, success, love, hobbies, sex etc etc. Several on this board have come to realise that the real Legend of Don Juan de Marco encompasses a lot more than just women. Although women is what this board is designed to focus on, the more people move along the road, the more they realise that women are only part of it. Once one realises that truth (and in the process, reduces desire, becomes the prize, is fun because he is having fun, [add most other tenets being discussed here!]), then catching women - as Pook will testify - becomes easy. The hard part is keeping them away!!!

Revelry.

PS A large thumbs-up for Pook's writing style... you should win a Pulitzer for the combined efforts in SoSuave.com!

------------------
Charm: A way of getting the answer 'yes' without asking any question. (Albert Camus)

[This message has been edited by Revelry (edited 07-05-2002).]
 

Inspector Clouseau

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A friend once wisely told me that in my journies with women, I will find patterns within women, but ultimately see there is no pattern at all. How's that for philosophy of no philosophy.
 

De La Soul

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Good answer.
 

mistyc

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Good answer..

BUT..

Was a philosophy necessary to get where you are today, Pook? You have been through a transformation from nice guy to what you are today, feeling no need for a DJ philosophy, Could you have just gone from nice guy to DJ without these intermediate steps?
 

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If you know you can handle it...

If you already have girls calling you at all hours of the day and night, showing up at your door, throwing themselves at you everywhere you go...

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De La Soul

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There's a problem in what you've said:

Posted originally by the elusive Pook:
* Eliminate desire
* Do something excellent in her presence, thus demonstrating your sexual worthiness
* After you've eliminated desire, after you've been excellent with her, retreat and she will pursue you.
1. Is this not a "philosophy"?

2. MORE IMPORTANTLY: Where is the "man" in this? Surely a man would not bother about "demonstrating his excellence" (wouldn't he assume that she would already know of it?) and SURELY a man would not "retreat" and allow her to do the pursuing!

Pook, my man, where's the manliness? There is a fault in your grand scheme/philosophy/non-philosophy! Prove me wrong!


[This message has been edited by De La Soul (edited 11-14-2002).]
 

Pook

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Haha, Revelry. That was nice. Thanks.

DeLaSoul, I just threw in the Tao of Steve since it seemed to MATCH.

I think that anyone who thinks they are going to get chicks to pursue them are going to be alone. If girls like you, they are a bit nervous around you. They certainly aren't going to 'pursue' you.

DESIRE By eliminating desire, you start to control yourself. You will desire every hot chick. Then people say, "If you turn off your desire, what is the point!?" The point is to help out the guys who are shy and/or not used to women. They stutter. They say stupid things. You have to get used to being around women. We all know that if you can't control your own thoughts, you can't control your actions. Thus, you go the AFC way.

EXCELLENCE What is this but to place the focus on YOURSELF? Girls come and go but YOU are forever. Before, guys would see the girls as the prize to be won and do everything they could to get them. If they did not get them, they think it was 'bad luck' or the environment or something stupid like that. But we Don Juans know that although environments, times of day, seasons, and all change, YOU REMAIN THE ONE AND ONLY CONSTANT. By putting the focus on yourself, by making your own boat excellent, you will be able to sail any waters, any storms, and any seas that lie about you.

RETREAT Women are not the birds to be caged, they are the bird catchers. Women love to conquer men. But they must have some REASON to do so. "Hi. I'm Bob. I'm 21, single, just going through a typical college plan, and that's that! Wanna date?" No! Be more. Not for HER sake but for yours.

But Pook! But Pook! This website is about getting girls. It is not a self-improvement seminar.

The GOAL is to be a DON JUAN. Don Juans ARE NOT average. In order to NOT BE average, you are going to have to do things that average people will not do.

The RETREAT is but another way of saying CHALLENGE. Women like men who are challenges. WHY? Because they feel like a woman when they get the guy. (What does feeling like a woman mean? It means conquering a guy with their beauty/charms/attractiveness/etc.)

I see that the Tao of Steve has certain similiarities, most notably the focusing on yourself. Successful guys do the Tao of Steve without even THINKING. It is NATURAL. Think of the girls you DIDN'T want that WANTED YOU. I bet you did the Tao of Steve to get them and you didn't mean to.

Instead of the DESIRELESS>EXCELLENCE>RETREAT triad, it is more of a SELF-FOCUS>IMPROVEMENT>CHALLENGE trinity.

Self-Focus YOU are the Prize to be won! Scripts and tricks are not going to get you women CONSISTANTLY. This keeps you from being DESPERATE.

IMPROVEMENT Be a Man! Non-manly males are faced towards infancy. Men are faced AWAY from infancy. The most digusting thought to them would be climbing back into the womb (Nice Guys yearn for this happy sleep). In order to do this, they have to engage in ACTION. You are not going to sit around for some hot chick to just jump in your lap. I've tried it (so have many of you) and IT DOESN'T WORK. You don't know WHEN you are going to meet a hot chick. It could be tomorrow. It could be next month. But IT WILL COME. This also applies to the rest of your life. Opportunities WILL come. Will you be prepared? When you are promoted to, say, a boss, do you have the determination and skill already ingrained? What are you waiting for? To fail? No, get it now. Readiness is all.

Challenge You are not going to get a woman you really want unless you are some type of challenge. You do not purposefully TRY to become a challenge, you are a challenge NATURALLY. You do not go: "OMG! A date already! It is time to be a challenge. I will ignore her next few phone calls." No! It is more of: "Had a date with her and it was nice. But I have that [meeting/play/symphony/monster truck rally/visit my mother/etc. right now. Thus I cannot go out with her at that time." some people try to mimick challenge by pretending they have a life. Why not have a life and do the challenge naturally, without even trying?

How does this thread start out? Here, I will do an unthinkable and quote myself:

Quoted by Pook

Being a Don Juan is not a net sum of smooth manuevers and methods but of your own outlook on the world and on women. ANYONE can memorize 'techniques', but FEW can change the way HOW they think. Women will be able to sniff out the former. But with the latter, women will be clawing each other for you.

A Don Juan is a state of mind, not a list of methods and tricks.
What does this mean? What is Pook saying? My interpretation is that he is saying: DO NOT BE ARTIFICIAL. Why? Because 'women can sniff it out'. It is a type of 'being yourself' but a bit more than that.

Yes, Speed Seduction scripts and all can get a response. But you'll never truly know if she actually liked you or not. It will hang over your head. Speed Seduction is the lazy Don Juan. Having the correct mindset is THE MOST CONSISTANT WAY TO SUCCESS. It is more rewarding as well. I've found it not only improves you with women but with all avenues of life. Be a Man! All women will want you (and everyone will respect you).

Yes, getting a nice haircut and wearing nice clothes gets reaction. But you are merely passing the audition, the game has just begun. With this style, you will forever be searching for some hidden codex of wisdom on the Internet or library that will tell you what women want. They don't know what they want themselves. All they do know is that they want you to be confident. That means ACTION, not REACTION.

So many people are searching for some 'easy way'. A script. A haircut. A way of dress. But that 'easy way' is not the way of a Man, one who accepts challenges.

But since it was fun quoting myself (everyone should try it; it's a thrill), let me do it again from another thread:

Quoted from Pookius Triumphiantus Maximus

They are simply acting as women do, as in their nature. The problem is not with them, it is with guys. We are afraid to embrace OUR nature, that of being a Man. Being in a culture that sees Manhood as predatory and oppressive and uncouth, we cover it up within ourselves. By doing so, we hide our sexuality. (Sexuality! Do I mean rock hard abs and rippling muscles? That is not what women find sexy [it's a contributing factor, not the core]. A type of PERSONALITY is what women are looking for. Someone they can depend on [has backbone], someone who will be successful [has ambition], and someone who is decisive [has charge]. Nice guys have no backbone because they think women are frail things that will break in confrontation; nice guys reveal no ambition because they fear being seen as arrogant to women; nice guys are afraid to be decisive for fear of being seen as 'oppressive'.)
Stupid Nice Guy! It is a life of the tumbleweed, forever knocked around by the winds of the age. Nice guys are so reactionary. They react to the 'truths' they have been told about women, from feminism from what they see on TV and so on. Even those who notice, "Look at the jerks! They get the women. Therefore, I will act like a jerk and get all the women" are also acting like Nice Guys. Jerks don't TRY to be jerks, they merely are. Nice Guys keep TRYING to be something. Those who say, "I keep TRYING to be a Don Juan but I cannot!" need to STOP TRYING. Seriously, it isn't that hard and some people are approaching it like a university degree (reading and rereading posts, doing analyzing of threads, etc).

How many posts demand or are eager to reveal the ever elusive "Philosophy that will get us the women"? But there is no 'philosophy' that gets women. "I got this chick using XYZ philosophy!" Hah! That is what it seems presented from the Alt.seduction.forum to other sites as well.

Whatever 'philosophy' there seems, it is merely nature. You're simply embracing what it is to be a MAN, to know what you want and how to get it. Note how this can be done in countless ways. I could do a post of how I got the chick from Thursday night but what good does that do? Are you going to analyze it and try to find a 'philosophy' behind it? All success stories share the same theme: confidence, non-desperation, taking action, being a man.

All this cannot be philosophy since it appeared with the dawn of Humanity, well beyond the discovery of philosophy.

There are countless number of guys who have less intelligence than the people on this forum pick up chicks left and right. They don't have philosophy. Yet, they get chicks. It is because they don't have stupid things like feminism in their heads or the mentality that they must 'buy dead plants' for the girl. They know what they want and they go for it.

The guys that are successful with women do not think 'philosophy' when with the women. For the most part, they are all natural. They are simply BEING.

This doesn't mean that there aren't things you realize. I'd say I passed through some 'realizing points'. But all of these 'realizing points' from knowing that you're the prize to demanding respect and so on are all the natural within man.

They are stuff when you look back on and you can't even dare to think of it as philosophy. To say that 'be a challenge' is philosophy about chicks is to say that breathing is philosophy to life. When you look back on it, you laugh since there is no way you can think of it as philosophy. It seems NATURAL.

Then you look at the Nice Guy as some absurd and bizzarre creature whose head, filled with stupid philosophies, make him have pride in doing stupid things and being ashamed of what is natural. (You can always learn things from the forum and from websites, but not a 'philosophy' that fits all.)

Always follow that gut. It's right even when your mind gets unsure.

------------------
Pook
Never fear success.
 

Pook

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Originally posted by mistyc:
Good answer..

BUT..

Was a philosophy necessary to get where you are today, Pook? You have been through a transformation from nice guy to what you are today, feeling no need for a DJ philosophy, Could you have just gone from nice guy to DJ without these intermediate steps?
There were certain realizations. Remember when you thought something (maybe AFCish) but realized the truth? That is what I'm talking about.

Some of it came from mistakes, some were caught before-hand. If you're interested, I'll do a post on them (seperate from this long-enough thread)

Mahon, old enough. Our bodies age and grow old; this is life's tragedy. But our minds/souls start out old and grow younger; this is life's comedy.

------------------
Pook

"As you think you shall become."
"You are the PRIZE to be won!"
"Impossible scenarios are brilliantly disguised as opportunies."
 

IntermediateDonJuaner

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Pook,

I think something is missing here. Since you think that all these nice guys are putting their philosophies as their priorities, so what is wrong with it? They might be overwhelmed by the principles given here and anyone else, so what is wrong following it?

Of course, there are many ground rules to everything, but we can't take all into considerations. But as Anti-Dump and Doc Love have mentioned, if you follow their advice, then you wont end up being burn again.

Pook, why not you try writing to Doc Love and tell him that his advice is total crap cause he teaches guys to rely on philosophies?
 

xniceguy

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Agreed that this post is too long, but...

Oswald Spenlger, in _The Decline of the West_, stated:

"Men are the thing becoming, women are the thing become".

Chicks are totally natural, totally insinctual, without guiding ideas or philosophy. Chicks are the practical gender, to quote myself.

Men are the thinkers, the doers, the movers and shakers, always BECOMING what they envision.

To be a man is to be BECOMING something bigger and better that you are now, to be an active participant in life, to journey somewhere. Chicks can make the BECOMING more fun, but you have to be the one on the journey.




------------------
Chicks don't think. Chicks feel.
 

Dominus

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Chicks are the practical gender?
I know that this post has gotten really deep, but please, don't lose touch with reality. I know one woman who is very practical (my boss). Thats it.

------------------
Yes, I'm arrogant, but if ever there was anyone who had a reason to be arrogant, it's me.

dominus84@aol.com
 

xniceguy

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Not practical in the organized, on top of things, detail-oriented, business-y way.

Practical in the sense that they harbor *no* illusions about love or pride or honor that we do. They are all id, and all about satisfying that id.




------------------
Chicks don't think. Chicks feel.
 

Click Here

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still probably the best thread on this website.

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"Be yourself, just make 'yourself' better" -
 

Pook

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Originally posted by IntermediateDonJuaner:
Pook,

I think something is missing here. Since you think that all these nice guys are putting their philosophies as their priorities, so what is wrong with it? They might be overwhelmed by the principles given here and anyone else, so what is wrong following it?

Of course, there are many ground rules to everything, but we can't take all into considerations. But as Anti-Dump and Doc Love have mentioned, if you follow their advice, then you wont end up being burn again.

Pook, why not you try writing to Doc Love and tell him that his advice is total crap cause he teaches guys to rely on philosophies?
Don't look at it as Doc Love's Philosophy or Anti-Dump's philosophy or Pook's philosophy or such. Women obey certain laws (as do men). It is not so much a 'philosophy' as much as it is seeing WHAT WORKS and, perhaps, WHY.

Women, like physics, obey certain laws. Here are some of them:

LAW ONE: Women are attracted to challenge.

Why is this? It is because you can divide all men up into two categories, the ones who see themselves as the prize and the ones who do not. The ones who do not often see the girl as the prize and will, obviously, stop acting 'non-challenge' wise. This is why we always hear: "Why can I get the girls I DON'T want but never the ones I DO want?" If a hottie realizes you're not falling all over her, she is going to want to know why. She becomes interested.

Law Two: True success with women lies in Action, never in Reaction.

Often, we are so tired of failure or risk that we demand signs of interest and other things as a green light to go forward. But in the end, none of it matters. You should be acting, never reacting.

Why? Because Woman is the philosophy of the flower. She will think, "Why is he attracted to me? I wonder... blah blah blah..." The Man is the philosophy of the arrow. Man is happiest in action and unhappiest in reaction. Thus, men who are chosen become unhappy. These are your shy guys. So be the chooser.

Law Three: Men possess sexual organs; women are possessed by their sexual organs.

This explains to us the complete irrationality of woman. Why are they obsessed with matchmaking and unions of couples? Why do they take such pleasure at it? Why do their ambitions run toward relationships (taking it it to 'the next level') and children (or pure pleasure) rather than philosophy, religion, art, science, etc.?

Women are slaves to their bodies. Ask her about her ego and she thinks about her body. Is she pretty? Is she getting older too fast? Is she gaining weight? Is her butt looking bad in that dress!?

If you place a woman before a movie that showed two star-crossed lovers who are meant to get together but do not, she will hate the movie. Women seek union first in themselves, and once that is done, possess pleasure in seeing it in their friends, neighbors, and everyone else. (Think of a 'Shakespearan comedy' as feminine as it always results in mass marriages.)

If I was confusing in saying that 'there is no philosophy', this is why. We are not making a game plan, a set of ideas that SEEM to work. No, Nature has already set a system in place of how women work. Yes, they are different but similiar in certain ways. Doc Love and Anti-Dump would admit that women are different (as different as spices) yet they are the same overall, they obey certain natural laws.

What philosphy is there with women? There is no philosophy! There are laws, certain actions that we can figure out. What philosophy is there in physics? It, too, obeys certain laws. We all may come about it a bit differently and harp on a different point, but, in the end, we're all collectively trying to unravel the enigma known as Woman.

------------------
 

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King Rat

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Killer post!

I just found this site; this is one of the first posts I've read.
I had made a date with this one girl at college-she didn't show up. I KEPT calling her almost every day for a WEEK trying to "reschedule" until I realized I was projecting desperation and killing my own self-esteem in the bargain.
Wish I'd found this place sooner...
 

Yoursmasterfully

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I benefited from reading this piece in an enormous fashion. I have been dating a woman for six months, she clearly understands that she is a GREAT CATCH. She executes this strategy of being "busy" and having a string up men waiting to get next to her.

Now, thanks to you and Robert Greene, author of "The Art of Seduction" I know the significance of taking a step back, of using distance, of picking at a wound, of alternating pleasure with pain.

This piece is relevant, applicable and fresh.
 
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