It just occurred to me the type of women I want and my relationship goals are almost impossible

FlexpertHamilton

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Currently I have zero interest in ever starting family or playing house - ie no marriage, no kids, no living under the same roof. I might change my mind in 20 years but it's doubtful.

But I also want a woman who is "traditional" ie submissive, loyal, nurturing, housewife type with a low body count (less than 10 for sure, ideally 5 or less) who doesn't use social media, doesn't have male friends, doesn't go out to clubs, has a good relationship with family, and isn't career-obsessed. Yet it has occurred to me that the only women who have these qualities are the Christian conservative types who, while better than leftist/feminist types, isn't exactly my jam either. I suppose the middle ground would be a nice girl from a good household with a modest, boring job (like an accountant) who's also apolitical and areligious but has good values/morals - even this sounds like a unicorn in the west, but I'm sure there are more of them out there than one might think.

However I'm beginning to think my best shot is to date east Asian women (ie literally women who live or immigrated from Japan, SK, etc) and compromise on the "living together" thing...especially if I am the breadwinner.

Thoughts?
 
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Pierce Manhammer

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The issue, you will find, unless you find a unicorn, is that she will bore you to death. I’ve known a few low count divorcées and “got married at 18” and was just widowed that I swooped up quickly, also one Japanese girl body count 3. Body count averaged like 4-5 for these three and I turned them all out/ made them into what I wanted, it can be done.

I am most likely a good 10-15 years older than you, YMMV.
 

Dr.Suave

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Maybe you are overthinking a bit. Keep meeting new plates, if somewhere along the ride you meet a girl worth dropping the other plates, you will cross that bridge when you get there.
 

Bingo-Player

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You need to be realistic and understand that most relationships are just highlight reels wether you have a traditional woman or not

In your average long term relationship the bulk of it will be incredibly boring spiced up with the odd holiday or vacation

The ideal scenario as a young man is too have a strong network of friends , interests and women to date simultaneously

Long term relationships / children are for later in life when you can allow both your expectations and standards to drop
 

BackInTheGame78

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How do you think you are going to find a nice traditional woman that doesn't want kids?

Those are literally diametrically opposed to each other.

Traditional women want children. That's part of being traditional.

I think you are simply setting yourself up for failure with your wants. Not wanting kids is fine but you are basically left with table scraps then because most women want kids.

Your options to choose from are far lower than a man who wants kids or is at least open to them. You are basically stuck with career oriented women who don't want kids and those are the furthest thing from traditional women you can get.

This doesn't make much sense from a logic standpoint to me. You can't want "x" but then not want what makes up the biggest part of that.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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How do you think you are going to find a nice traditional woman that doesn't want kids?

Those are literally diametrically opposed to each other.

Traditional women want children. That's part of being traditional.

I think you are simply setting yourself up for failure with your wants. Not wanting kids is fine but you are basically left with table scraps then because most women want kids.

Your options to choose from are far lower than a man who wants kids or is at least open to them. You are basically stuck with career oriented women who don't want kids and those are the furthest thing from traditional women you can get.

This doesn't make much sense from a logic standpoint to me. You can't want "x" but then not want what makes up the biggest part of that.
Yeah that makes sense, and by that definition then i am not a traditional man since i don't want a family. Just sucks to realize how limited my options are.

That said it's reasonable to want a feminine and supportive woman for an LTR without any expectations to start a family. Maybe using the terms "traditional" are pointless here.

Dark thought but I could get a vasectomy then just play dumb.
 

SW15

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Currently I have zero interest in ever starting family or playing house - ie no marriage, no kids, no living under the same roof. I might change my mind in 20 years but it's doubtful.
The type of woman who would be into this arrangement would not be a submissive, housewife with a low body count.

I suppose the middle ground would be a nice girl from a good household with a modest, boring job (like an accountant) who's also apolitical and areligious but has good values/morals - even this sounds like a unicorn in the west, but I'm sure there are more of them out there than one might think.
The woman you describe in this quote might be open to the arrangement you describe in the first quote. It would not be easy to meet that type of woman through approaching strangers either in bars or non-bar venues. Don't bother with swipe apps on that either. It's possible to find that woman on a swipe app but unlikely you'll get her attention due to female abundance. Your best option is to do a lot of approaching (likely daygame) and drink alcohol on dates.
 

The Duke

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Currently I have zero interest in ever starting family or playing house - ie no marriage, no kids, no living under the same roof. I might change my mind in 20 years but it's doubtful.

But I also want a woman who is "traditional" ie submissive, loyal, nurturing, housewife type with a low body count (less than 10 for sure, ideally 5 or less) who doesn't use social media, doesn't have male friends, doesn't go out to clubs, has a good relationship with family, and isn't career-obsessed. Yet it has occurred to me that the only women who have these qualities are the Christian conservative types who, while better than leftist/feminist types, isn't exactly my jam either. I suppose the middle ground would be a nice girl from a good household with a modest, boring job (like an accountant) who's also apolitical and areligious but has good values/morals - even this sounds like a unicorn in the west, but I'm sure there are more of them out there than one might think.

However I'm beginning to think my best shot is to date east Asian women (ie literally women who live or immigrated from Japan, SK, etc) and compromise on the "living together" thing...especially if I am the breadwinner.

Thoughts?
I totally get where you are coming from. That's always been me. I've had 3 girls that were close to meeting your criteria. It's possible. You'll always have to compromise on a few things. But they will all want to live with you eventually. There is something wrong if she doesn't.
 

BeExcellent

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I agree with @BackInTheGame78 on this.

Traditional women are family oriented. Having babies is what a woman’s body is built for at the end of the day, and women who do not want kids are some variety of careerist or whack or both.

It not normal for a woman to eschew childbearing I don’t care who she is.

All you can do is go through life & keep an eye out for women who share your value system. From your content I’d wager your value system is to find a cool chick who isn’t so conservative as to be super religious and desirous of motherhood but has a conservatively trending value system and seeks leadership in a man.

My guess is you are going to have to give on your body count expectations to have any hope of finding what you want. You want someone who is fun & enjoyable to be around, not going to pester/pressure you about marriage, not going to wear you down over children, and not a religious zealot relative to you.

Those are going to be your women who have had a party phase followed by a realization that the party phase is unfulfilling and they then circle back to where they value something more than a good time.

Those women are not going to be boring. My suggestion would be that you accept that women who most closely meet your stated criteria are going to have a past of some sort. What you want is mental stability and a kind natured person who is after a good partnership/relationship.

The virgins and very low body count housewife candidates are going to want families and perhaps to actually be a full time housewife and mother. If that is not your jam you’re not going to lock these girls down, they attach great value to their virginity and/or low body count and especially if they are beautiful they know they can select a man willing to go that route with them.

You are not mate selecting in a vacuum, there are plenty of desirable men who do want a traditional family and that is where the type woman you describe as ideal ends up.
 

SW15

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Dark thought but I could get a vasectomy then just play dumb.
This isn't worth doing for a lot of reasons. If you want to play dumb, you could claim to be open to possibility of having children. If you haven't had a vasectomy, that's technically true. Then, if you get to your late 30s/early 40s and beyond are childless and are dating similarly aged women like most men, this isn't an issue anymore. If you're a 45 year old man who is childless and you start dating someone 40-43 who is childless, having children likely isn't going to be a major issue.

I think you are simply setting yourself up for failure with your wants. Not wanting kids is fine but you are basically left with table scraps then because most women want kids.

Your options to choose from are far lower than a man who wants kids or is at least open to them. You are basically stuck with career oriented women who don't want kids and those are the furthest thing from traditional women you can get.

This doesn't make much sense from a logic standpoint to me. You can't want "x" but then not want what makes up the biggest part of that.
He can run out the clock so to speak. Women who reach 40 and are childless aren't going to have kids. There are more and more of the women with the Millennials turning 40 now. It's still not a big segment of women. Most women on the verge of turning 40 have children. It's likely easier to find childless women 35-44 on swipe apps than in real life approaching, but swipe apps are a difficult venue for most men, even when pursuing 35-44 year old childless women. 35-44 year old childless women are still going to have hundreds of options in their swipe queues.

Traditional women are family oriented. Having babies is what a woman’s body is built for at the end of the day, and women who do not want kids are some variety of careerist or whack or both.

It not normal for a woman to eschew childbearing I don’t care who she is.
There are cases woman who had medical problems that didn't enable her to conceive. There are also cases of women who didn't have children because they never found a good relationship arrangement between 15-35 for having children, a scenario that's become more common with the Millennials. These are women that might have wanted children at some point in their lives but it didn't happen.

Most women who want children do find a way to have them. In relationships, most guys are thirsty so even if they are ambivalent about kids, they'll give in to the woman and have kids. Additionally, there's IVF and adoption for women with fertility changes. There have been some IVF babies in my social circle with women in their 30s.

Careerist, whack, or both is a good way of putting it. With childless women, whack only is better than careerist only, if the whack is manageable. It's difficult for a woman to get to 35, be childless, and not have some damage.

All you can do is go through life & keep an eye out for women who share your value system. From your content I’d wager your value system is to find a cool chick who isn’t so conservative as to be super religious and desirous of motherhood but has a conservatively trending value system and seeks leadership in a man.

My guess is you are going to have to give on your body count expectations to have any hope of finding what you want. You want someone who is fun & enjoyable to be around, not going to pester/pressure you about marriage, not going to wear you down over children, and not a religious zealot relative to you.

Those are going to be your women who have had a party phase followed by a realization that the party phase is unfulfilling and they then circle back to where they value something more than a good time.

Those women are not going to be boring. My suggestion would be that you accept that women who most closely meet your stated criteria are going to have a past of some sort. What you want is mental stability and a kind natured person who is after a good partnership/relationship.
Low body count isn't going to happen. That's a requirement that would need to be dropped. I think there are men like @FlexpertHamilton who would want girlfriends but not want marriage and babies. There's a market of women for men with these attitudes, but they aren't low body count. I agree that they aren't going to be boring and that they will have a past. Is their "whack" manageable? The mental stability and kind natured person is important.

Most of dating people in one's 30s/40s is making concessions, for both men and women. It's possible to concede low body count and get someone childless and willing to do an extended relationship without playing house.

There are going to be challenges with finding women like this, both on swipe apps and with approaching strangers in person. Both are going to take massive amounts of time, and it gets worse for most men are they age with this.
 

FlexpertHamilton

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The woman you describe in this quote might be open to the arrangement you describe in the first quote. It would not be easy to meet that type of woman through approaching strangers either in bars or non-bar venues. Don't bother with swipe apps on that either. It's possible to find that woman on a swipe app but unlikely you'll get her attention due to female abundance. Your best option is to do a lot of approaching (likely daygame) and drink alcohol on dates.
I'm going to join some clubs/groups (tennis club to start out) and see if I can meet women that way. I'm realizing that many women are "normal" and somewhere in the middle of the extremes that are painted by the media. Of course that goes without saying, but my point is they are probably more common than one would think, but maybe i'm being too optimistic.


All you can do is go through life & keep an eye out for women who share your value system. From your content I’d wager your value system is to find a cool chick who isn’t so conservative as to be super religious and desirous of motherhood but has a conservatively trending value system and seeks leadership in a man.

My guess is you are going to have to give on your body count expectations to have any hope of finding what you want. You want someone who is fun & enjoyable to be around, not going to pester/pressure you about marriage, not going to wear you down over children, and not a religious zealot relative to you.
Pretty much. I want a well-read woman (and by that I don't mean from education) who can think for herself but is naturally warm hearted and supportive/agreeable, that's really all it boils down to.

When I think about it more I don't suppose I care about body count THAT much but I would say anything over 10-15ish is definitely pushing it. But yes, I may have to make a compromise. I suppose I feel a sense of urgency here because of the fact that all my relationships have been <1 year, and I honestly want to have maybe 2-3 LTRs so I can know if it something I actually want.


This isn't worth doing for a lot of reasons. If you want to play dumb, you could claim to be open to possibility of having children.
If you haven't had a vasectomy, that's technically true. Then, if you get to your late 30s/early 40s and beyond are childless and are dating similarly aged women like most men, this isn't an issue anymore. If you're a 45 year old man who is childless and you start dating someone 40-43 who is childless, having children likely isn't going to be a major issue.
Yeah except I'm only early 30s and I still only date women around 19-23, usually cut off around 28ish. When I'm in my 40s those numbers will only shift a few years. I can only imagine wanting to date 40+ women when I'm in my 50s, but by then who knows, maybe I'lldo a complete 180 and want a family and have to look for 20 somethings again so there's no point planning that far ahead.
 
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SW15

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I'm only early 30s and I still only date women around 19-23, usually cut off around 28ish.
I'm going to join some clubs/groups (tennis club to start out) and see if I can meet women that way. I'm realizing that many women are "normal" and somewhere in the middle of the extremes that are painted by the media. Of course that goes without saying, but my point is they are probably more common than one would think, but maybe i'm being too optimistic.
Tennis is not a good way to meet women between 19-28.

The most serious recreational players are males. Despite its reputation as a female friendly sport, it really isn't in the most desirable age brackets.

Here's an experiment you can run for free.

Go to your public tennis courts and observe the players. You'll notice its a sausage fest. You will not see a lot of younger women playing singles matches against each other. When women are playing tennis, it is usually with a man such as a boyfriend, husband, brother, cousin, or any other male. Typically, it is a boyfriend.

Private, country or racquet clubs have better ratios than the public courts. However, at private clubs, it is mostly women 35+ with children. Some of these women are divorcees. The highest probability girlfriend most men can get at a private club is a 35-50 year old divorcee with children. Even still, the middle aged women typically at country and racquet clubs playing tennis are far more likely to be married than divorced.

If you want to use sports to meet women under 35, here are my recommendations....

1. Volleyball. Preferably sand volleyball and only if you are 6'0"+ as a lot of women interested in playing volleyball are on the taller side (5'7"+ and even more likely to be 5'10"+)
2. Soccer. This is probably the best overall one because soccer women are more likely to be typical female heights
3. Softball/kickball

There are some random pickup games in volleyball at certain venues, but those sports will typically involve leagues.
 

viking22

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Yeah I don't think it is realistic.

What you might be able to find is a woman in her mid to late 30s who despite being single and independent has retained some femininity and is relationship oriented and hasn't been through the serial dating treadmill that leaves women with a high body count and a bitter attitude. Perhaps she has focused on her career. Perhaps a long term relationship didn't work out. Perhaps she was looking for the one and didn't find him and is finally getting more realistic.

Most likely they would like to have kids. But if you can finesse that then after a few years if they are very attached to you they might decide that being with you is more important and are realistic to know that by the time they found someone else and developed a relationship they might be past childbearing age.

But even then the risk is a part of them would feel empty and they might end up harbouring some resentment against you for it. And if they do decide to break up with you after a few years then you are a few years older and it becomes more difficult to find the next one.

So maybe the better option is to stick to STRs and not care too much about their LTR potential and enjoy the variety of seeing multiple different women. And then when you really do want to settle down (at which point you might be 45-50) go for traditional women in their early 40s who are single mothers and divorced and had kids young so their kids are relatively independent. Especially if non Western they can often still be pretty attractive
 
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