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is it really that hard for the average guy?


Don Juan
May 12, 2013
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I blame social media and online dating for this. Average to ugly chicks are constantly being bombarded with compliments on these sites so they actually believe they will score a Brad Pitt. I hate online dating for this very reason.

It's hard for the average guy but still possible. Just gotta smile, say hi, chest and head up and out and strut with confidence.


Senior Don Juan
Jan 1, 2007
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foreverAFC said:
just shirts and jeans, nothing too different than what other people wear, but i think my location may be part of the problem, i live in silicon valley and most people in general around here dont seem too friendly
What part of silicon valley? South bay? or peninsula? or closer to SF? Where do you typically go to try and meet people out of these three areas?

You would do better if you changed your attitude. You have it ingrained in your head that you are average. Average everything including how you dress. You constantly rate yourself average in this thread, even your user name (below average). Well you can change a lot of that, but it takes a different mindset and some effort. Who wants an average, mediocre person? People wont take you seriously if you don't take yourself seriously, first.

Down Low

Master Don Juan
Feb 21, 2012
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I spent my younger years working in the world of men (construction, factories, warehousing, etc.). I had an illusion that office and retail workers had to be so professional because it's a mixed environment, and because they deal with customers. So wrong. After some injuries and the evisceration of the blue-collar economy put me into the white-collar world, I kept saying "WTF is wrong with these people!" I went from job to job, thinking that it was just those last couple of workplaces, or maybe that city, or that couple of SOB bosses, or perhaps temp work that was the problem.

The problem is the presence of women in the workplace. Everything about women is oriented to gossipping at fence corners and laundry tubs, stuffing their mouths while the baby is feeding, and sabotaging the hard work of men to draw attention to themselves. Men are endlessly frustrated because men are trying to get the job done. Women know the real job is to fink to the manager, spread rumors, backstab, suck up, and bring presents and cupcakes to make the coworkers look bad in comparison. Women in the workplace means every kind of drama except the reward of a job well done.

When a man enters the world of women, they treat him with utter contempt as if he's a physical or mental cripple. The longer he stays there, the more he thinks and acts like a sissy, b1tchy faggot. A man is never going to "rise above" it because women are relentless and well schooled. From birth, they compete with each other in the b1tch pecking order. Girls are rebellious against their mothers from day one, but are naturally passive and controllable. Men, it's women who have alphas and betas and such. Men are cooperative. Men built everything you see around you by working together and not undermining each other. We didn't piss away our lives cat fighting about whose anniversary card was prettier. That's why so many DJs dislike the Greek alphabet stuff.

The younger women have man-like high libido for only two to four days a month; the rest of the time, they act like the older ones who never have any sexual interest in men. Many studies have shown that women who aren't in heat are most attracted to deodorized, desexualized, shaved-chest faggot types. However, when they're ovulating, they want normal men with normal masculine facial and bodily features. Unfortunately, many women are on the shot or pill and their estrogen peaks are diminished or absent -- while they're vaginally dry, yeasty, excessively or always bleeding, have painful nipples, and feel angry all the time. So even if your workplace has many young women, few or none of them may ever go into heat. Especially in the era of contraceptives, the presence of women in the workplace usually does not mean "fraternization."

The OP, like any man, gets a bad attitude after a situation pisses him off. OTOH, a woman comes into a room with a bad attitude and pisses a man off, then pulls the non sequitur of blaming her earlier sh1tty behavior on the man's later bad attitude. Women are accustomed to it from other women; for them, the drama is a roller coaster amusement park. The shifting alliances and personal emotional slip-ups make perfect sense to women. But it drives men nuts.


Master Don Juan
May 3, 2013
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Guys, what I have learned in the short time I have been gaming girls following my LTR, is that it is much, much different when you are older.

I am in no way a good looking guy, though I am tall (and that seems incredibly important to some women, thank god). I carry extra weight though not fat, I have a good job and a pretty nice car, but I am in no way rich, but coming back to dating women in their 20s now I am 30 is so easy compared to when I was in my 20s. It seems you are all talking about young women, and yes, I found women in their late teens/early 20s, especially hot ones, are very much based on looks.....but women in their mid 20s start realising (after they have been pumped and dumped so many times by good looking guys) that they want kiddies and they then start looking for other things, and that isn't neccesarily massive wealth (although it makes it easier) but steadyness, stability and being emotionally in control - i.e. someone who could be a daddy.

For me, I actually wouldn't want a hb9 or 10, I have dated them when I was much younger and it is horrible dating someone with that much power, and unless you are seriously wealthy or very very good looking, you will spend your life watching over your shoulder, and probably wasting years on a woman who will find another guy when she wants to settle.

If I can get my pecker up for a woman, I am more interested in if she is dirty and ready to do some perverted **** for me! Much better ****ing a 6 who knows she is a little slut, than a 9 who ****s on her terms. If you get the 2 together, best of luck, you are a lucky man and are in the 1%.

Also, I have found that my intelligence seems to work better now I am older. When I was younger, chicks didn't dig my brilliant use of words and great game of insults and wit. This is my only real god given gift and I am definately top 10% in this, but now I am older and the chicks I am dating are mid 20s, this game means so much now.

I say this as I have been on a website now for 3 days, and every girl who have started speaking with me has given their number and is loving it - if you show them you are clever then this works a charm.

For guys who are bigger on body and looks, enjoy it while you are young, this fades as you get older and doesn't do it for women, just for girls.

Plus, why would you want a woman who ogles good looking guys? That's not a proper woman, that's a slut and not matter how cute you are, she will get bored and find a new cute guy to ****. Women want someone with wit, brains and dominance, not some **** in a vest and spikey hair. So fair enough, you might get a few flings working your game on looks and body, but you will be exactly what a hot chick is to us - a nice package to screw on, but not valued, and the guy with it going on up top will be who she really wants to win......but that comes with age.

Obviously if you are ****ing ugly and fat then no game will get you anywhere, but I am living proof that you don't need looks and body, never had much of either.

To be fair I forgot that most of you would be quite happy just to be used as a ****, but for me, I want a woman to want to own me, think of me, and see me as the prize. Guess that changes as you get older! When I was 20 i just wanted lays, but I am just saying if you ain't a model looker, the game changes as you get older, and often the good looking guys aren't as in demand if they have nothing else going on, which is 90% of them in my opinion, you will end up being a prize asset on the arm of someone and not the real deal.

Atom Smasher

Master Don Juan
Sep 22, 2008
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The 7th Dimension
The problem is that they sense that you want their approval, OP.

A man needs to resolve and then convey to the world that he respects himself, and that he demands respect from others. There must be a very real detachment that is conveyed.

Secondly, it is your job to have fun and to provide fun for those in your orbit.

Think long and hard about the intellectual and emotional advantages you have over women. Make your workplace your kingdom, your world. Stop desiring these women's approval. Desire instead to design a kingdom.

This is easier for me to do than for you younger guys, because at age 55 it is far easier to not give a sh!t about outcomes. It is easier for me to detach and create my various kingdoms and become the alpha dog in each one. But it was not long ago that this was impossible for me. You younger guys have an advantage I never had... Sites like this. It's all about awareness.

The key to power in most areas of life is to stop giving a sh!t about outcomes and to instead design the life (social structure) you want. Once that is established, you are in a position to let the people into your world who you want to be there. You can be selective and you will watch the minions who want to be let in but who do not qualify. Detachment is the ultimate power.

Demand of yourself to have fun in your workplace. Demand of yourself to make yourself KING. You don't declare this verbally. Instead, you act and speak with assumed authority. Think long and hard about this. Assumed authority.

How many of you know that women LOVE men who they consider superior to them? Are you not superior to women? Do you not have a rational mind that you can train to do anything? Are you a "herd" creature as are all women, constrained by the mentality of the day?

Train every fiber of your being to understand that you are SUPERIOR to every women, for you are. And women innately know this and therefore are putty in the hands of a man who knows he is superior. Every woman will regard you precisely as you regard yourself. Women pine for men who are superior to them, who have more value than they. They desperately desire this, no matter what nonsense to the contrary spills out of their mouths.

Women were created (and are therefore hard-wired) to serve you, if you have higher value than they. Every women desires to serve.

You should see the madness of my summers. I go around to my various girlfriends' condos and swim in their pools with several of their friends. I am the king and they serve me well. Seriously, your jaws would drop to watch this. I pull it off because of all the factors I cited above. I float around on my float, and COMMAND them to pull me around in the water, to spin my float around, get me drinks and snacks, and I hold pedicure competitions where I judge their feet. LOL.. how I wish you guys could watch this stuff! These commands are done ever so slightly tongue-in-cheek, but they always comply because it fulfills them internally to comply.

How do I get away with this? I consider myself the King, the leader, and part of being the leader is conveying that you are taking care of your tribe. I also make sure to have fun and to provide lots of fun for them. I listen to them and provide occasional advice, and I occasionally encourage them and bring up good points about them. This is the analog to doggie treats.

Detach. BUILD your kingdom with intent and purpose. Detach again. Regard women as herd creatures who, unlike you, can't escape group-think. Order women to serve you. Did I mention you should detach? Provide fun. Demand of yourself that your days will be fun, and know that you have the power to create it. Convey to women that you are better than them, that you have more intrinsic value. They will start to believe it. They want to and need to believe it. Never forget that your superiority is something that they are in search of. They hate men who have lower value than them. Tease them in a friendly way about their abilities. Compel them to want to be around you because you lift them out of their mundane existence.

Do not expect perfection as you start to build your kingdom. It will take time and you will make mistakes. Just keep at it and you will start to sense that you are changing internally and that women are starting to take delight in your company. You are allowed to fail. I repeat, you are allowed and encouraged to fail. My own success is built upon many so-called failures. "Failures" are the very substance, the very molecules of matter that will make up the mountain upon which you will stand and survey your kingdom. It is very, very good for a man to try, and fail, and to try again until measurable success is attained.

Your new mantra: "Assumed Authority".
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Don Juan
Jan 15, 2013
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Burroughs said:

In 2013 all women including the uglies and fuglies feel they DESERVE brad pitt looks and Bill Gates money in their men...

society and media has promoted this idea to women and women have run with this delusion whole hog

And this:
floydb25 said:
Women don't view things in terms of leagues... for THEM. They ALL want, and feel entitled to the best - and pretty much ignore most of the rest.

When I was at the top of my physique + natural looks + materialism + status + social ability, some 6 years ago - everyone from 3s and 9s were interested, and approached, complimented, etc. There was no hesitation or lack of confidence. They may have been nervous, shy, or whatever, but they still made the approach. The ages varied, as well.

Some of the more nasty *****es would say all these other guys were ugly - when they were decently attractive, had solid GF's, etc. They themselves were not attractive, but talked mass **** about other guys... constantly. All based on looks, and if they were "hot". They would also make brief mentions of how hot they were, brag about the guys they banged, etc. They seriously thought they were something special.... even the fat, tattooed, clown-looking beasts.

To most girls, either you're hot / sexy / gorgeous, or don't exist, get rejected, and made fun of. They do judge guys based on their looks often. They'll look at them (and back at their girl friends) and laugh, or say that guy is creepy, roll their eyes when flirted with by someone they don't like, etc. I seen a lot of this happen as I was mingling with them. They will literally say this guy is a loser, that guy is ugly, this guy is creepy; they don't like that guy; this guy is whatever; etc - while flirting with and enjoying my company; talking sexual; etc.

It is pretty unfair, but most *****es are all or nothing... there's rarely any inbetween. They either find you attractive, and have the hots for you, and therefore enjoy being around you, and make things very easy for you - or they don't find you attractive, and hate your guts. And this changes, too. You're so awesome and funny and sexy - then they lose interest, and want you to die. Just like that.

For the most part, they just avoid everyone they're not interested in (based on physical attraction, of course), and flock to the ones they are. Conversating constantly, all smiles, touching, teasing / joking, etc. It's almost unreal.

****, I had a very high percentage rate back then... very high... the select few who weren't interested, or lost interest once the infatuation wore off, or they found out I was a chump, or whatever... pretty much treated me like ****. I was literally a nobody to them - simply because I wasn't physically attractive in their eyes. I got the insults, criticisms, sarcastic "you wish; no chance" laughs, no looks, "just friends" reminders (even though I didn't give a ****)... the whole nine. The girls who WERE interested were the exact opposite. They wanna get married and have babies, and all this bull****.

Even on FB... all the girls post about is hot / gorgeous guys, linking to male models, etc. Even though some of the girls are not attractive.[...]

*****es are shallow.


Master Don Juan
Aug 6, 2012
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The Viagra Pill you wish you had...- United Kingdo
PairPlusRoyalFlush said:
haha its nothing but mainland Chinese, east coast transplants and cold hipster botches over there. Awful.
Although I live in the U.K. now, I used to live in the San Francisco bay area as well (between Walnut Creek and Sacramento). I have family that lives in Fremont/San Jose area. What PPRF said is correct. If you are a NON-WHITE, you have much more to work upwards to in order to get Caucasian women. There is generally a much heavier blanket of general racism that exist in the United States mostly unspoken over other parts of Europe where I have lived. Caucasian women tend to be much more hard to game if you are a minority - but I find that not isolated in California but amongst many other States I lived in prior.

If you are an 'average' kind of guy (not tall, not extremely fit, not in upper-middle class, not a 6/7+ look in the facials) there are some things you can work on:

1) Personality - if you think you are average, you will exude an air of 'averageness' to women. If you think you can't be bothered by irritating walking snail-trail leaving stench mark b!tches and can care less about their attention and approval, then that is where your radiance of confidence and alphaness starts.

2) Appearance - God only gave you so much to work with, so maximize those potentions (keep your facial composition clear of blemishes, excessive hair, etc). Keep yourself fit, not necessary decked out muscular - believe it or not, overdoing it can turn off some women or they classify you into 'player' category and will ignore you or lack confidence to even begin anything with you.

3) What Money Can Do For You - work hard and be in a financially well place in life. This is not just for women, but for your own mental welfare so you can stop worrying about survival. When you have less stress in your life, you tend to be able to focus on more pleasure than 'NEEDING' anyone in your life because you feel insecure and unstable about things in the future.

4) What Money Can Buy For You - upgrade your entire wardrobe if you tend to buy sh!t clothing on clearance and wear the wrong size (shirts too big, jeans/pants too baggy - big no no). Smell good and wear some cologne but not overbearing that you smell 'desperate'. Suttleness is the key. Buy nice good looking SHOES - women are killer for a man with good shoes. But you must have a good sense of color matching everything (shirt, jeans/pants, belt, shoes) so read/look at department store clothing websites with models wearing shirts/pants and see how they color match.

5) Do Things That You Enjoy - join groups such as Meetup.com of common interest and activity. Get out and make acquaintences of BOTH sex, even making male friends gains you social proof. It is much better to run into a woman of common interest and value (and more likely higher quality) than an online dating website. Find out what you are passionate about in life, and pursue it and the rest will fall into place.

6) Look Deeper into Yourself - the world has become a shallow place. Though I have described quite a few shallow attributes to improve prior, that will only get you through the door to her castle. You still haven't been allowed to rule her castle and domain. Develop an inner stronghold of who you are as a man. Gain a deep sense of calm, peace, contentness, happiness, joy, or tranquility where no amount of sh!t from life can move you. This is the kind of man a woman truly admires - someone who is strong when she is a freakin emotional b!tch and you are not broken down by her. This also means you don't NEED her, no woman wants a man who needs her because she's immature enough to barely keep up with her own responsibilities in life. (Yes, a woman truly is just a girl in an adult meat suit). Find some spiritual path inside of yourself, religiously or non-religiously.

7) A Woman's Own Reflection in the Mirror - in the end of your DJ-hood, you shall understand by much pain and suffering like the mill that turns the stone and grinds down the grain into flour - that a woman is someone who is only an empty shell. She doesn't know much about life than to exert a facade of whatever she is playing on the stage of her own drama and theatre. Deep down inside, a woman is empty - she is in turmoil without the security of a man to provide that leadership for her. There is no such thing as 'pedestaling' a woman in the end - when you have graduated DJ-hood, you will realize that no matter how hot a woman's outer facade is, deep down inside - they are really all the same. Highly insecure, confused, lack decision making skills, full of regrets, and an emotional rollercoaster on an even keel maybe on a sunny day in Seattle.

Good luck,