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Insight into what Hot Girls are experiencing in the dating market today

Guy69JackBlue

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Yes. But it is also and more importantly who I actually am and what others think of me. It is not false bravado. What good would it do anyone to share the above perspective unless I am as stated?

That is a recent photo of me as my avatar. Unretouched, at age 50. I still look the same.

It does nobody any good for me to make false statements here.
Glamour shots never show what a person actually looks like. Especially when they have their face contorted into weird poses like you do. You are actually presenting a false impression by posting that, and that's not even to mention all the makeup, etc.

And don't you think it's a little pathetic to go around bragging about how "good" you supposedly "look"? That's the behavior of a toddler.

There is no such thing as objective "beauty," because it's ALWAYS an opinion.
 

BeExcellent

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Glamour shots never show what a person actually looks like. Especially when they have their face contorted into weird poses like you do. You are actually presenting a false impression by posting that, and that's not even to mention all the makeup, etc.

And don't you think it's a little pathetic to go around bragging about how "good" you supposedly "look"? That's the behavior of a toddler.

There is no such thing as objective "beauty," because it's ALWAYS an opinion.
It is a professional photo. But unretouched. I choose to retain some degree of privacy here for reasons that don’t require elaboration. Trust me there are days Id love to show off and post photos that show exactly who I am AND who the men I date are. But that isn’t prudent for any number of reasons.

The other purpose of the photo is to show my figure, which is very trim & fit, especially for my age. It is my real hair. No plastic surgery either. It is enough to demonstrate that I am what I say. That’s all.

Beauty is always subjective. Not every person finds me beautiful, and I actually am prettier in person than in photos. But my experience in the market over many years tells me I am very sought after. However you wish to qualify that.

That is my reality. Period. So I’m actually in a unique position to help guys understand what that reality is because it is foreign to all but the most sought after men.

And look. It isn’t gong to last forever. Time comes for us all eventually. You, me, everyone.

Cheers
 

Pan87

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What do you do now to prevent this? Dread games?
Probably a few things. I think firstly all guys have to experience this loss to be able to comprehend it. I'd never lost a girl in an LTR before (I'd always been the dumper), so everything that was happening up until the point of losing her was confusing. I didn't know what was happening. I basically didn't have strong Relationship Game when on the backfoot. I only had strong relationship game when things were all going well - I'd just be on autopilot.

That's the first step- being able to recognise what's happening and the transformation of the power dynamic taking place. You have to nip it in the bud early. You can't correct this stuff in retrospect. You have to be steps ahead of it.

The other thing is to not get oneitis for her in the first place. Once you're deeply emotionally invested in a woman, to the point where the idea of losing her is a very painful prospect, then you're unable to set healthy boundaries and the strong, masculine frame needed to keep the relationship surviving. Every little compromise you make snowballs into an eventual loss of the frame.

For me, I lost frame when I was caught cheating and she left for a few days. I was so miserable in those few days. After she came back, I just wasn't the same guy anymore. I had seen her leave and I knew she was strong enough to do it. It effected my vibe. What ended up happening was a cycle of breaking up and making up. I stopped leading the relationship, lost faith in it and kept cheating. One day, out of the blue, she left for good and I never heard from her again. It's been about 18 months now. Last I heard she was in therapy with the goal of breaking her toxic attachment to me.
 

Guy69JackBlue

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It is a professional photo. But unretouched. I choose to retain some degree of privacy here for reasons that don’t require elaboration. Trust me there are days Id love to show off and post photos that show exactly who I am AND who the men I date are. But that isn’t prudent for any number of reasons.

The other purpose of the photo is to show my figure, which is very trim & fit, especially for my age. It is my real hair. No plastic surgery either. It is enough to demonstrate that I am what I say. That’s all.

Beauty is always subjective. Not every person finds me beautiful, and I actually am prettier in person than in photos. But my experience in the market over many years tells me I am very sought after. However you wish to qualify that.

That is my reality. Period. So I’m actually in a unique position to help guys understand what that reality is because it is foreign to all but the most sought after men.

And look. It isn’t gong to last forever. Time comes for us all eventually. You, me, everyone.

Cheers
You're annoying. Bye
 

BeExcellent

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Probably a few things. I think firstly all guys have to experience this loss to be able to comprehend it. I'd never lost a girl in an LTR before (I'd always been the dumper), so everything that was happening up until the point of losing her was confusing. I didn't know what was happening. I basically didn't have strong Relationship Game when on the backfoot. I only had strong relationship game when things were all going well - I'd just be on autopilot.

That's the first step- being able to recognise what's happening and the transformation of the power dynamic taking place. You have to nip it in the bud early. You can't correct this stuff in retrospect. You have to be steps ahead of it.

The other thing is to not get oneitis for her in the first place. Once you're deeply emotionally invested in a woman, to the point where the idea of losing her is a very painful prospect, then you're unable to set healthy boundaries and the strong, masculine frame needed to keep the relationship surviving. Every little compromise you make snowballs into an eventual loss of the frame.

For me, I lost frame when I was caught cheating and she left for a few days. I was so miserable in those few days. After she came back, I just wasn't the same guy anymore. I had seen her leave and I knew she was strong enough to do it. It effected my vibe. What ended up happening was a cycle of breaking up and making up. I stopped leading the relationship, lost faith in it and kept cheating. One day, out of the blue, she left for good and I never heard from her again. It's been about 18 months now. Last I heard she was in therapy with the goal of breaking her toxic attachment to me.
Your perspective is really interesting on this. I know you and I spar at times but what you have related is actually consistent with what I see happen to player/playboy types who I know personally.

That being: They fall hard and deep for someone and it gets screwed up somehow, and then they realize or felt they were too vulnerable or exposed for some reason intrinsic to the relationship...and once it’s over they vow never to be so vulnerable or exposed again...but that becomes the barrier to something good worth having over time.

Takes time to get there...and then they have fears of getting close to someone else. It’s a tough cycle to watch. What are your thoughts on this?
 

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Georgepithyou

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What do you mean both genders. As far as I can tell fat slobs on dating sites are thinking they can get with anyone they want. I figure this is in response to men actually taking interest in them. FEMALES need to be more realistic with their dating preferences.
Men will sleep with that slob but how many will commit to it? How many guys do you know that would hold hands with jabba the hutt in public?
 
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Pan87

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Your perspective is really interesting on this. I know you and I spar at times but what you have related is actually consistent with what I see happen to player/playboy types who I know personally.

That being: They fall hard and deep for someone and it gets screwed up somehow, and then they realize or felt they were too vulnerable or exposed for some reason intrinsic to the relationship...and once it’s over they vow never to be so vulnerable or exposed again...but that becomes the barrier to something good worth having over time.

Takes time to get there...and then they have fears of getting close to someone else. It’s a tough cycle to watch. What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks. I agree that this type of experience is hard for a "Player" to recover from, and the barriers that go up after this experience might become permanent. It's a huge fall from grace that a proud man hates to see himself go through.

Prior to this it was easy to be vulnerable with a woman in an LTR because I had never experienced loss of frame and being dumped before. My naivity allowed me to easily grow close, bond with a woman, and then dump her when I was ready to leave. Now I have an association that Love = loss of control and pain. Whereas before Love was just a fun, joyous feeling that lasted as long as I wanted it to last. I saw myself as a guy that was un-leavable in a relationship, no matter what I did, she'd stick by me. This gave me supreme confidence. Now I see myself as a guy who a woman can leave if I lose frame in a relationship, and I can't un-see it.

I now basically see myself as a guy who can seduce women easily, but I can't keep them if I fall for them. All based on this one bad experience I had, I project it onto all future experiences with women. It's made me a lot more unattached, colder, and I'm probably a better Player now than I ever was because of my inability to feel anymore. But it's at the cost of experiencing Love (or whatever you want to call it).

Tom Torero covers this topic really well in his podcast called Affection Addiction:

 

Guy69JackBlue

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I think a real "player" would be able to fvck the girls without lying to them, leading them on, or at all implying that a relationship is possible.

Plus, the girl would have to be mentally mature and stable.

I don't think this exists in the world. Sad to say I most of the topics of this forum are a lost cause and a wild goose chase.
 

BeExcellent

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Thanks. I agree that this type of experience is hard for a "Player" to recover from, and the barriers that go up after this experience might become permanent. It's a huge fall from grace that a proud man hates to see himself go through.

Prior to this it was easy to be vulnerable with a woman in an LTR because I had never experienced loss of frame and being dumped before. My naivity allowed me to easily grow close, bond with a woman, and then dump her when I was ready to leave. Now I have an association that Love = loss of control and pain. Whereas before Love was just a fun, joyous feeling that lasted as long as I wanted it to last. I saw myself as a guy that was un-leavable in a relationship, no matter what I did, she'd stick by me. This gave me supreme confidence. Now I see myself as a guy who a woman can leave if I lose frame in a relationship, and I can't un-see it.

I now basically see myself as a guy who can seduce women easily, but I can't keep them if I fall for them. All based on this one bad experience I had, I project it onto all future experiences with women. It's made me a lot more unattached, colder, and I'm probably a better Player now than I ever was because of my inability to feel anymore. But it's at the cost of experiencing Love (or whatever you want to call it).

Tom Torero covers this topic really well in his podcast called Affection Addiction:

Im going to reply and then watch the video you posted. My playboy friend, who I’ve discussed here has had the same trajectory as you. He fell deeply for someone once, was totally invested, got crushed and swore off ever getting that close to another woman ever again. Like you and as I have described he is a skilled seducer. Calculated and smooth. He’s also deeply broken and still running from that pain. He too learned that to love deeply is too lose and be hurt badly. He has a visceral fear of intimacy, which screws up interactions that actually have serious potential for depth.

He receded from me suddenly in recent weeks because he was getting too close emotionally. I miss him tremendously but I understand him thoroughly and know he needed to withdraw and recalibrate. That’s a longer story obviously but suffice to say I trust that he will reappear in my life when he is ready. All I can do is offer understanding and respect his need to take space.

So I feel you. Pan. I do.
 

Velasco

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Could you elaborate on the talk aspect?
Throughout an interaction with a chick you trying ****, she will give you certain cues. Clueless to semi clueless (noobs) guys will either miss them entirely or misinterprete them to mean something else. Guys who get it, more often than not, don't miss them and know exactly what she means and therefore know where to go (moving them closer to their goal). Intuition molded by experience.
 

Guy69JackBlue

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Throughout an interaction with a chick you trying ****, she will give you certain cues. Clueless to semi clueless (noobs) guys will either miss them entirely or misinterprete them to mean something else. Guys who get it, more often than not, don't miss them and know exactly what she means and therefore know where to go (moving them closer to their goal). Intuition molded by experience.
Give some examples
 

Velasco

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Scroll down to where I said, "I disagree"


My comments here


My fvck up here

 
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samspade

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As @LARaiders85 put far better than me - if she sees you as a Player then you need to assuage her that she's not just another notch for her to feel comfortable opening her pvssy. That's exactly what I had to do with this girl too. She said she was looking for a relationship and I said I was open to it. That was attractive for her because she saw me as a manwh0re. Whereas if she saw me as a beta then me saying I'm open to a relationship would have turned her off. If you're labeled a beta then you have to subvert her expectations by acting abundant and aloof.
You've got some really good insights on this thread, OP. I'll just add that in addition to her needing her abandonment fears assuaged, those kinds of comments can also be (sometimes simultaneously) her attempt to kick your tires and see if you'll simp. She's had sex with you, now she wants her decision ratified by your true frame. You responded very well..."I'm open" is a good way to put it - other examples could be "Let's enjoy this moment and what will be will be" or "Life's a beautiful mystery, let's see." Anything that gets in tune with her feminine wavelength (and really, those are statements I 100% believe, it's not a front).

What some guys would have said, yes even some "players," is "well, we're a great match!" or "I'm not going anywhere, baby, don't worry." She knows just because it was fast sex doesn't mean she's seen the full picture.

Years ago I slipped up in a situation like this - thought I was the shyt for nailing one of my top 3 all time, looks-wise. And I was the shyt, til she dropped some of those "are you gonna leave me" and "you'll just get bored with me" comments. I thought, a girl this hot and she's asking me this? Of course I over-assuaged and within a few weeks was dumped and ghosted, lol. She guessed right, my frame was a house of cards at the time.
 

Velasco

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Years ago I slipped up in a situation like this - thought I was the shyt for nailing one of my top 3 all time, looks-wise. And I was the shyt, til she dropped some of those "are you gonna leave me" and "you'll just get bored with me" comments. I thought, a girl this hot and she's asking me this? Of course I over-assuaged and within a few weeks was dumped and ghosted, lol.
@Guy69JackBlue here's another example. Taking her words at face value.
 

Bokanovsky

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There's a few points

Firstly, hot girls want commitment from top men, and they can't get it. This is why women are so frustrated and complain that there are "no good men" - what they mean is that "there are no good alphas who will commit".

The second point, which you've just raised, is that women don't want commitment from Betas. You can't seem to comprehend that a Beta's commitment is value-less to women. An Alpha's commitment is huge for a woman because he's sacrificing his ability to bang any girl, and focus on 1 girl.
You are making far-reaching conclusions based on interactions with one female.
 

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PowerQuest

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So, what am I going to do with this girl?
Keep her around and see if things develop the right way or not?
After I banged her she was acting very insecure and said "So, you're going to disappear tomorrow aren't you?"
That doesn't directly translate to emotionally damaged.

Loads of really hot girls I experienced/dated are way more insecure than their less hotter piers because its the mid tier girls that get most of the male attention because the average chumps believe they are easier and less competition whole as matter a fact it is reverse; instead the hot girls receive much less more attention because AFC guys are afraid to approach them which in turn leads to that these girls think that they are not that hot/something wrong with them (=they are more insecure), because they see their less hot girlfriends receive the most of the male attention.

It's the same very reason I always go for the hottest chick in the club, she's often quite bored and most lonely because not many guys approach her (and her less hot gf are busy with guys dancing, while se sits in the bar...) so it is way easier with way less completion to "tag and bag" her. lol
 
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SargeMaximus

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Your first response was "This forum teaches us not to promise these things (relationships) to women" - that's exactly right. If you're a beta who can't get laid then you have to simulate your abundance to appear higher-value to women. A Beta approaching a girl and saying he wants a relationship is unattractive because she's thinking "Well, of course you want commitment. You're a beta and you'd commit to anything."

If you're an Alpha and she already knows you're abundant, then you have to do the opposite and actually provide her with a bit of hope that commitment is actually possible. Otherwise she feels depressed that she's just another notch on your alpha bedpost.
Can confirm. The only 8 I ever banged put me through the ringer asking me all kinds of questions and **** to make sure I was looking for a relationship.

the sex ended up being bad and she nexted me but I remember finding it funny that she wasted all that time when we could have just had sex on the first date and found out we had no chemistry right away
 

Snag87

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Men will sleep with that slob but how many will commit to it? How many guys do you know that would hold hands with jabba the hutt in public?
The issue is women often have trouble differentiating the two. They believe because they can attract significantly higher SMV men for sex, they should also be able to attract them for relationships. It just doesn't work that way. Men generally date down, but an 8 male is still unlikely to enter a long term relationship with a 4.
 

PowerQuest

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they should also be able to attract them for relationships.
Women wants primarily relationships, guys only want sex as the main driver.
It's enteral core battle between the gender wars aka. the old book title "Men are from mars and women are from venus".
 

Snag87

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Women wants primarily relationships, guys only want sex as the main driver.
It's enteral core battle between the gender wars aka. the old book title "Men are from mars and women are from venus".
I think women desire casual sex from top-tier men as it ensures their offspring have the best possible genetics. For lower-tier men they desire relationships and provision.
 
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