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Clamslammer

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My ex husband completely abdicated the man’s role in the marriage after his partner screwed him over on the nightclub. He never recovered and became lazy and depressed over time. He abdicated leadership and didn’t get up and get on with life. There are many places my full story exists here at SS. It’s in my unicorn thread from a few years ago if you need details. Eventually my respect for him as a man eroded because he wallowed for many years. He was a stay at home father 10 of those years. He had my support and every opportunity to get up. He didn’t. As time passed I didn’t want my children to think the example of a man their father was demonstrating was normal. I ended up the enabler of his laziness within the marriage. So I left the marriage. I told him 5 years before I left that his trajectory would have to change or a divorce was inevitable. I left him 5 years later. Incidentally I remained faithful throughout. It was not until a year post divorce that I accepted a date. And the guy who asked me out? We dated for 18 months.

As far as men accepting scraps? Each of the highly desirable men I know who were in sexless unions KNEW they were picking the wrong woman at the time. They are all charming, handsome & very successful.

Bingo!!! Girls and Guys know right away that the person they married were not the right one. Usually it is the girl because she lowers her standard to get hitched and have a safe relationship so society thinks highly of them. But what ends up happening is if the relationship is not built on desire from the beginning either party will stop caring and will spiral downward and eventually leads to divorce. I have seen this play out all the time.

All are happily divorced now by the way, and two had hellacious divorces.

One is a film editor in Hollywood, one a lawyer & IT consultant, another is a property developer. They each had a deep sense of commitment to marriage as an institution. They all were historically desirable men with no issue attracting women. They all remain highly sought after and women swoon over them. So it’s not as though they were ugly in cel types. Not at all. They did each marry a high maintenance bjtch though. Then they had children with said bjtch. They each realize now they chose a woman for the wrong reasons but young men do this often.

I hope my son does not do the same. At 19 he thus far appears to have a good head on his shoulders.
 

BeExcellent

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Thank you for sharing that @Bee. Your openness is refreshing.

Question: You posted earlier your marriage did not end due to lack of desire.

So to clarify, you lost respect for him but still felt desire for him?

I find that unusual as when my respect dies, so does my desire.

Can you clarify further on that?
When I took my vows I COMMITTED to my ex husband. To the marriage, to the family, and my intent was until one of us died.

I committed to him as my lover, as my best friend, as the head of the family, as the father of my children. Out of that commitment arose a dedication to work through things by turning deeper into the marriage rather than seeking outside it.

The marriage was grounded in desire, intimacy, trust and love. Obviously respect is a cornerstone of love. I committed “for better or for worse”…and I gave endless chances and had high hopes that HE would in time recover, get going etc., etc., but disillusionment began to set in. I cannot “fix” someone else outside myself. Believe me I tried. I was still committed but he was not. He was checked out. He was fine getting by doing the utter bare minimum and watching me shoulder the load of heavy responsibility for our family. He got incredibly lazy. He wasn’t like that when we married. And while I broke my back working, handling investments and doctors appointments and so forth he sunk deeper into depression, procrastination and apathy. Not even fatherhood motivated him.

That’s why I gave him such a long horizon. I wanted him to realize I was committed but that I couldn’t watch him loaf around (he slept most days while the kids were in school)forever…and that he needed to pull his weight. I offered therapy, I helped him and backed him in another business that also failed, I was ALL IN invested. That is how it’s supposed to be. But he wasn’t committed the same way I was. He didn’t sacrifice like I did. And there was nothing I could do. Leaving your lover & best friend and co-parent was not easy. It was the correct choice and should have happened much sooner. I had designed the REST of my life around the family unit. He was just hitching a ride in the end.

Brutal. So desire existed throughout. I maintained hope through out until things were inked.

He didn’t really digest that I was gone until I began (a year after the divorce) dating someone. Suddenly he dropped 40 lbs., got into the best shape of his life…but I was already emotionally gone by then…and he let himself go once more.

He’s now overweight, lives like a slob to such a degree my children won’t live with him), and is bitter. He blames anyone but himself for his lot in life.

Yeah. Not dealing with that. It creates anxiety in my kids to be around it.

Oh well. The difference in our paths since the divorce is striking. And I was the one as the bread winner spouse at great financial peril.

Best decision EVER.
 

catsmeow

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When I took my vows I COMMITTED to my ex husband. To the marriage, to the family, and my intent was until one of us died.

I committed to him as my lover, as my best friend, as the head of the family, as the father of my children. Out of that commitment arose a dedication to work through things by turning deeper into the marriage rather than seeking outside it.

The marriage was grounded in desire, intimacy, trust and love. Obviously respect is a cornerstone of love. I committed “for better or for worse”…and I gave endless chances and had high hopes that HE would in time recover, get going etc., etc., but disillusionment began to set in. I cannot “fix” someone else outside myself. Believe me I tried. I was still committed but he was not. He was checked out. He was fine getting by doing the utter bare minimum and watching me shoulder the load of heavy responsibility for our family. He got incredibly lazy. He wasn’t like that when we married. And while I broke my back working, handling investments and doctors appointments and so forth he sunk deeper into depression, procrastination and apathy. Not even fatherhood motivated him.

That’s why I gave him such a long horizon. I wanted him to realize I was committed but that I couldn’t watch him loaf around (he slept most days while the kids were in school)forever…and that he needed to pull his weight. I offered therapy, I helped him and backed him in another business that also failed, I was ALL IN invested. That is how it’s supposed to be. But he wasn’t committed the same way I was. He didn’t sacrifice like I did. And there was nothing I could do. Leaving your lover & best friend and co-parent was not easy. It was the correct choice and should have happened much sooner. I had designed the REST of my life around the family unit. He was just hitching a ride in the end.

Brutal. So desire existed throughout. I maintained hope through out until things were inked.

He didn’t really digest that I was gone until I began (a year after the divorce) dating someone. Suddenly he dropped 40 lbs., got into the best shape of his life…but I was already emotionally gone by then…and he let himself go once more.

He’s now overweight, lives like a slob to such a degree my children won’t live with him), and is bitter. He blames anyone but himself for his lot in life.

Yeah. Not dealing with that. It creates anxiety in my kids to be around it.

Oh well. The difference in our paths since the divorce is striking. And I was the one as the bread winner spouse at great financial peril.

Best decision EVER.
I see, okay thanks for clarifying. I think I understand.

My confusion came from how each of us were defining "desire." I interpreted it to mean "sexual desire." Sexual attraction.

When what you meant was "desire" for the marriage to work out, since you had made the commitment?

I think it would near impossible for anyone to maintain sexual desire/attraction when their partner is lazy, slovenly, loafing around not pulling their weight, but still have the desire to remain in the marriage hoping it improves. That IS what commitment is after all. So I get it.

I don't think you need to justify why you left. I give you credit for lasting as long as you did under the circumstances you described.

Anyway, thank you for the clarification, it makes sense.
 
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DonJuanjr

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My confusion came from how each of us were defining "desire." I interpreted it to mean "sexual desire." Sexual attraction.
You were right to think that because that's what I was talking about when she retorted to my comment. I think she knew that's what I was referring to. She's not a moron.
 

BeExcellent

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Sexual desire. That is what I mean when I discuss desire. The drive to be committed to the marriage arises from sexual attraction or desire. That’s the glue.

In a deeply intimate marriage relationship the sexual union (kept through desire) is what bonds the spouses.

I was deeply committed to that bond.

Hope that clarifies things.
 

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mrskinnypantz

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Oh I always allow my boyfriend to be a man, would never ever interfere with that.

I simply don't equate getting into brawls/physical altercations with being a man. Unless it's to defend my life or his.

I still don't interfere with that when it happened tho, like with my ex. And at the time, I was actually flattered by it.

But now? Words are much more effective imo and as I said, and YOU said, him assertively expressing he doesn't tolerate disrespect = :up: :up:

So we are in agreement - I think.

Edit: I realize some maybe even many women are into that type of aggression, like in the thread about the poster pulling some random guy out of a taxi. Did you read that?

His date was all over him after that and he took her home and banged her. :oops:

Like this from one of my favorite flicks.


So I asked a friend of mine , he said he’s kind of used to it, and if he took his chick to the bar and a dude was staring he would ignore at first, but then if he just kept kept starin then he would eventually have to say something because at that point he’s disrespecting him now.

And yeah It is the type of women , in my culture you kinda have to jump on it otherwise the girl will think you’re a pvssy.

love that movie , and that’s a perfect example of when you have to fight!
 

catsmeow

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So I asked a friend of mine , he said he’s kind of used to it, and if he took his chick to the bar and a dude was staring he would ignore at first, but then if he just kept kept starin then he would eventually have to say something because at that point he’s disrespecting him now.

And yeah It is the type of women , in my culture you kinda have to jump on it otherwise the girl will think you’re a pvssy.

love that movie , and that’s a perfect example of when you have to fight!
Yeah in the movie, from the way Karen described, it sounded like the neighbor guy did more than make some crude comments, he grabbed her, nearly physically assaulted her and pushed her out of the car!

I typically dislike physical aggression/violence like that but sometimes, like you said, it's warranted!!

Loved the movie too, it's become a classic, one of Scorsese's best imo. I even became a bit obsessed with Henry after watching it, researching old news clippings and such.

He and Karen eventually divorced. Karen said after they went into hiding under witness protection, their marriage and life became dull and boring, everyday humdrum and she divorced him.

What does THAT tell you about what women want? Excitement, high drama, passion, danger, feeling a sense of "protection" from their man. I think there is some truth to that at least for some women.

My ex was always getting into fist fights to protect my "honor," or now in retrospect, perhaps HE felt disrespected.

I wonder what Henry felt, if he beat the crap out of the guy to protect Karen's honor OR did HE feel disrespected?

Or perhaps a little of both?
 

metalwater

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My ex husband completely abdicated the man’s role in the marriage after his partner screwed him over on the nightclub. He never recovered and became lazy and depressed over time. He abdicated leadership and didn’t get up and get on with life. There are many places my full story exists here at SS. It’s in my unicorn thread from a few years ago if you need details. Eventually my respect for him as a man eroded because he wallowed for many years. He was a stay at home father 10 of those years. He had my support and every opportunity to get up. He didn’t. As time passed I didn’t want my children to think the example of a man their father was demonstrating was normal. I ended up the enabler of his laziness within the marriage. So I left the marriage. I told him 5 years before I left that his trajectory would have to change or a divorce was inevitable. I left him 5 years later. Incidentally I remained faithful throughout. It was not until a year post divorce that I accepted a date. And the guy who asked me out? We dated for 18 months.

As far as men accepting scraps? Each of the highly desirable men I know who were in sexless unions KNEW they were picking the wrong woman at the time. They are all charming, handsome & very successful.

All are happily divorced now by the way, and two had hellacious divorces.

One is a film editor in Hollywood, one a lawyer & IT consultant, another is a property developer. They each had a deep sense of commitment to marriage as an institution. They all were historically desirable men with no issue attracting women. They all remain highly sought after and women swoon over them. So it’s not as though they were ugly in cel types. Not at all. They did each marry a high maintenance bjtch though. Then they had children with said bjtch. They each realize now they chose a woman for the wrong reasons but young men do this often.

I hope my son does not do the same. At 19 he thus far appears to have a good head on his shoulders.
you tell that story similarly every time, so it probably happened. my take is that when you saw the partner screw him over what you saw was him getting beat to hell by another man. light switch.
 

BeExcellent

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you tell that story similarly every time, so it probably happened. my take is that when you saw the partner screw him over what you saw was him getting beat to hell by another man. light switch.
No it wasn’t that. Not at all. It was that my my ex husband got knocked down and never got back up. Life will knock you down sometimes. You have to get up. That is what determines grit in life. I gave him a long horizon to get up. His partner was his best friend since he was 10 years old. Brutal.
 

mrskinnypantz

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Yeah in the movie, from the way Karen described, it sounded like the neighbor guy did more than make some crude comments, he grabbed her, nearly physically assaulted her and pushed her out of the car!

I typically dislike physical aggression/violence like that but sometimes, like you said, it's warranted!!

Loved the movie too, it's become a classic, one of Scorsese's best imo. I even became a bit obsessed with Henry after watching it, researching old news clippings and such.

He and Karen eventually divorced. Karen said after they went into hiding under witness protection, their marriage and life became dull and boring, everyday humdrum and she divorced him.

What does THAT tell you about what women want? Excitement, high drama, passion, danger, feeling a sense of "protection" from their man. I think there is some truth to that at least for some women.

My ex was always getting into fist fights to protect my "honor," or now in retrospect, perhaps HE felt disrespected.

I wonder what Henry felt, if he beat the crap out of the guy to protect Karen's honor OR did HE feel disrespected?

Or perhaps a little of both?
So Karen never really loved him, just the way he made her feel(drama, danger and excitement)
Yeah in the movie, from the way Karen described, it sounded like the neighbor guy did more than make some crude comments, he grabbed her, nearly physically assaulted her and pushed her out of the car!

I typically dislike physical aggression/violence like that but sometimes, like you said, it's warranted!!

Loved the movie too, it's become a classic, one of Scorsese's best imo. I even became a bit obsessed with Henry after watching it, researching old news clippings and such.

He and Karen eventually divorced. Karen said after they went into hiding under witness protection, their marriage and life became dull and boring, everyday humdrum and she divorced him.

What does THAT tell you about what women want? Excitement, high drama, passion, danger, feeling a sense of "protection" from their man. I think there is some truth to that at least for some women.

My ex was always getting into fist fights to protect my "honor," or now in retrospect, perhaps HE felt disrespected.

I wonder what Henry felt, if he beat the crap out of the guy to protect Karen's honor OR did HE feel disrespected?

Or perhaps a little of both?
that was fer sure both , and then he was a neighbor.
That’s like callin Henry a straight up B1tch basically
 

catsmeow

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So Karen never really loved him, just the way he made her feel(drama, danger and excitement)
that was fer sure both , and then he was a neighbor.
That’s like callin Henry a straight up B1tch basically
Well, she may have loved him I have no idea, I think people love others for different reasons but I am giving her huge leeway there....

Re bolded, I don't know what you mean, how was he a B1tch? A straight up B1tch? I am guessing it means a man to be admired, looked up to?

Pardon my ignorance! lol
 

catsmeow

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Lmao nahh..
Way off.
“B1tch” is like coward, but worse.
LOL, okay that's funny. I recall one male friend telling me about another guy he was having issues with "he's my little b*tch," so what he meant was the guy was weak, a coward?

I gotta get up to speed with basic male-speak! :lol:
 

DonJuanjr

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For men, being called a biitch is the biggest insult. Like a female calling another female a slvt.
 

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mrskinnypantz

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Lol I don’t
LOL, okay that's funny. I recall one male friend telling me about another guy he was having issues with "he's my little b*tch," so what he meant was the guy was weak, a coward?

I gotta get up to speed with basic male-speak! :lol:
Lmao idk about that one
Usually when you’re having issues with another guy you wouldn’t call him YOUR B1tch . You would just call him a B1tch so idk if he meant that guy will do anything he says or what

edit: adding the “little” in the front of it just makes it even worse
 

Indiveber

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Nope I’m not white , I’m African American , and yep I’ve heard of JBW, of course it’s silly .
But...Depending on environment and timing I guess it could be true sometimes.
And yet you are spreading it. I've been keeping my eyes open lately to see who young White women are with. For White women under about age 30, roughly 75% of the time they are with dark skinned males. (Typically hispanic or black). And it's not just morbidly obese women anymore. I've seen a number of thin women with black boys lately.

And virtually every young White single mother I see has a half-black baby.

There's a video somewhere online of infield footage of a short, nerdy black guy opening White girls with, "kiss me or you're a racist" and getting the kiss roughly half the time. It's ridiculously easy to land White girls when you're a non-White male.
 
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mrskinnypantz

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And yet you are spreading it. I've been keeping my eyes open lately to see who young White women are with. For White women under about age 30, roughly 75% of the time they are with dark skinned males. (Typically hispanic or black). And it's not just morbidly obese women anymore. I've seen a number of thin women with black boys lately.

And virtually every young White single mother I see has a half-black baby.

There's a video somewhere online of infield footage of a short, nerdy black guy opening White girls with, "kiss me or you're a racist" and getting the kiss roughly half the time. It's ridiculously easy to land White girls when you're a non-White male.
I’m Spreading what bruh?
where you stay at? Cause round here it’s 50/50 to see a black dude with a chicck outside his race
 
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