Help me bring him around

[SheDevil]

I am a 40 yr old woman slowing entering a relationship with a 43 year old man. His history: Raised in an extremely strict religious culture. He was married twice to women brought up in the same manner. Wife #1 - frigid, 4 months into marriage both still virgins. Had horrible (his word, not mine) sex maybe 12 times in six years. Next comes wife #2, she hates sex, belittles him, calls him "pathetic" for wanting such a "discusting" thing. Marriage lasts 11 years. (Note: these details were told to me under the influence of A LOT of achohol, he could NEVER discuss this sober). My history: Married once ended friendly after 12 years, I LOVE making love and have a very high libido.
Our relationship (into its ninth month) has not gone beyond heavy petting. We go out often, 3+ nights a week, we go to his or my place on weekends. We both want things to go further but he is having some problems. It used to be when we begin kissing, light touching, etc... he would stop and take breaks, walk around or go outside. I did NOT apply any pressure, I was understanding and encouraged him to take his time and not to worry about it. He has told me that he stops because of "physical reasons". He then would get very frustrated with himself. Now, when we are together he pulls my hands out of his hair, or holds my wrist by my side, or turns away from where I am kissing. I know he is trying to prolong arousal but am not a dead lay by far and now I am getting frustrated. I have suggested he wear a condom so if the mood should strike him he could just release and not worry. He almost curls up in the fetal position when I say anything like that. His inhibitions run deep. Communication is very hard for him, sexually, but not emotionally. I know wife #2 beat him up bad emotionally but deep inside isn't there an instinct that will soon kick in? I feel he would be a good candidate for therapy but I think he would dump me before he went that route. I want to help him and I know he wants more. I am one of those women how love performing oral. I think it is one of the most wonderful ways to show my feelings, should I? I could pin him long enough to bring him pleasure, I think. (okay, that's the frustration talking, I mean how much masterbation can a girl stand?) I want to get to a point where we could go primal, up against the foyer wall. Should I try to be a little more agressive? If I do too much talking he tends to really clam up. I have made a few bold moves, unzipping his pants for example, he went along with me, no battle what-so-ever, until he gets close to the edge, he stops. So what do I do, push him over or pull him back? Any suggestions to accomplish advancement is appreciated.

 

[decades]

He needs to get comfortable with himself and his sexuality. what I suggest is lie down naked on the bed with each other. bring some massage cream with you. Then he should attempt to masturbate in front of you and you in front of him. he should do this until he feels comfortable and not ashamed to have an erection and eventually to ejaculate in front of you. This may take a while or it might just happen quickly. But only after he is comfortable with this exercise, you can move on.

In stage two, you need to take over and start massaging him in an erotic way with no expectations. He should try and close his eyes, relax and just focus on the feelings. keep fantasy out of it. Work on this exercise until he feels comfortable with your touch and you can bring him to orgasm. Don't make orgasm the goal, however. Make touch and feeling good without shame the goal. PROGRESSING in this manner, one step at a time, should eventually take you guys where you want to go. But he needs to get comfortable being sexual with himself without shame and eventually, you, and he does that step by step. good luck.

 

[ER!C L!VE]

Sweet!

A leopard can't change it's spots.

He is who he is and he'll be this way until he dies...or gets on medication - sometimes that helps a bit.

Sex only 12 times in 6 years?? and he was OK with that? c'mon.. that's just fuct...

Meh. Silly woman...at 40 you should know this

 

[Slickster]

The guy is obviously carrying arounds some serious baggage and rightly so considering his last two wives.

Man the poor S.O.B. must be really messed in the head.

You are a very patient woman to stick around thru all this.

PE's post sounds like a good place to start.

(Note: these details were told to me under the influence of A LOT of achohol, he could NEVER discuss this sober)

Maybe you need to loosen him up a bit first.

 

[Survivor]

Find a good doctor.

Sounds like your man could use some serious therapy. Have him understand that most sex therapy is confidential.

This is proof how a marriage to the wrong woman can really traumatize a fella.

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Originally posted by SheDevil
... We both want things to go further but he is having some problems. It used to be when we begin kissing, light touching, etc... he would stop and take breaks, walk around or go outside. I did NOT apply any pressure, I was understanding and encouraged him to take his time and not to worry about it. He has told me that he stops because of "physical reasons"....

ya lost me there.... ask him to explain just what physical reason is causing him to stop?

 

[Buck Toff]

I don't think it is impossible for someone to change, but it must be on THEIR initiative, not yours. Your job is to decide whether you can live with this man as he is, unchanged, where sex is either lame or non-existent. Because from the sounds of it, you've already pushed/coaxed him as far as he is ready to go.

At 43, his lifetime of repression will take enormous resolve on his part to overcome these difficulties (with lots of outside help), if he is ready to do the work. But this guy hasn't even gotten as far as admitted to himself that he needs help. Better shopping elsewhere, me thinks.

 

[SheDevil]

Eric Live - No, he wasn't alright w/ it. Recall - Strict religious background. The "thou shalt nots ... ate him alive. Honor thy Father and Mother... this is what made him stay. He and wife #1 were rarely ever in the same room together. They longest conversation was the one when he said he was leaving. He suffered large scale ramifications w/ both his family and hers when he left. His family came around a little after he remarried into the same culture.

Crank-It-Up - "physical reasons" = close to orgasm?? More details couldn't be dragged out of him.

Thank you PE and everyone.

Does Absolut come in a gallon size???

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Originally posted by SheDevil
...Crank-It-Up - "physical reasons" = close to orgasm?? More details couldn't be dragged out of him...

I know he is trying to prolong arousal but am not a dead lay by far and now I am getting frustrated. I have suggested he wear a condom so if the mood should strike him he could just release and not worry. He almost curls up in the fetal position when I say anything like that.

consider the possibility that his sense of embarrassment is not from fear of orgasm, but rather fear of losing his erection or failure to achieve an erection at all. Thus wearing a condom would not help.

 

[SheDevil]

Crank-it-Up - As I mentioned he holds out a lot longer if he doesn't let me participate. He does maintain an erection for quite some time unless I begin to move or play. Then he bolts. I can feel it, moments with my hand but longer against my body, even if he has on clothes. Good thought, Thanks!!

(I just fear he will recreate the opening scene of the Flinstones when Fred puts the cat out.) I'll say, "Honey, would you try to masterbate in front of me - I'll do it for you." He would plant my a$$ on the front mat so fast and bolt the DOOR!

I do care for him - I will try some of these things, I will and I will be extremely understanding. I feel he is worth it.

Thanks again.

 

[Crank_It_Up]

ok, try this.... just act completely cool and unresponsive when he makes his move on you. He may in fact be turned on by a woman who is seemingly unresponsive but freaks when she starts to respond. Perhaps he is fearful of his lack of experience. In any case, if he is willing to make the first move, don't do anything. Wait until he starts to orgasm before showing any signs of response, and then stop as soon as he is finished.

Each time, start your repsonse a little earlier than last time, gradually he might just ease into a more normal attitude.

 

[TooColdUlrick]

forget this dude. he's 43 and has been this way all his life. he will continue to be, most likely. the things you are mentioning about him have deep deep deep roots. he cannot bear the thought of intimacy. his past marriages have been ones whereby sex was considered "dirty". this dude is a major project.

there are huge red flags waiving right in front of your face. do you really want to pursue this "project"? how long will this project take? a year? two years? five?

i believe you are also assuming that he want's to change? if not, then that unto itself is a major project, let alone actually fixing it.

i know you care for him and think he's worth it, but really, is he?

you are 40 and probably so horny its driving you crazy. pinning him down and raping him, while TooCold would love it, your boy will run for the hills--it would totally traumatize him.

what's your phone number?

 

[Buck Toff]

there are huge red flags waiving right in front of your face. do you really want to pursue this "project"? how long will this project take? a year? two years? five?

I agree. Perhaps a little self analysis is in order here as well.

What is it about you that you so desperately need to "convert" this guy? Is he Tom Cruise? (joke)

Do you have a need to feel like a really nice or good person so you act so patiently and caring and selfless? What about your needs? Are they not important?

If you do need to feel needed or thought of as a saint, try to give yourself permission to be selfish and find a guy who wants to please YOU for a change. Because messed up or not, the guy you are with now is being selfish too.

-a former people pleaser

 

[SheDevil]

Flags, hell - more like large red hammers!! I have lumps on my head from beating it up agaisnt a wall asking myself - why? Fortunatly, I still say he is worth it. He has expressed three things to me - almost weekly, his need, love and want for me. These three words didn't come easy for him. We had been seeing each other for several months before he was able to say any of that. I know he has a desire to move forward. Recently, at his place after dinner he pulled me onto his lap, at the table. Not sideways, but straddle. I was surprised, but went with it. He ravished, he took, hard, hot and fast. After a few minutes, he stopped, apologized, and step out onto his back deck. Once my head stopped spinning, I asked him why the apology, why did you stop? With closed eyes he just shook his head as if to tell me 'no'. My instinct is to yell WTF! (Which I supressed)

TooCool - you are appreciated, however, I don't run - until I win. The past 17 years of my life I dedicated to rehabing and counseling abused and neglected children. The one thing I see similar in almost every case I work is the physical pain these children have endured (mostly sexual, my field) doesn't compare to the emotional pain they have by knowing others turned a blind eye or failed to protect them. We, as a culture, punish the physical abuser but do nothing to the abuser who turned their head. Hence, my dedication, I am stubborn, its in my blood to help and protect. Okay - I'll get off the soap box.

Anyway, I am going forward, taking much of the advice that has been graciously offered.
I have extended to him an invitation for a nice dinner, my house Friday night (by email). The menu is salmon, asparagus, salad, white wine (he brings) and dessert: ME!
My reply from him was that being an adult he is allowed to eat his dessert first if he so wishes and I can do nothing about it because he is older.
My reply was that I would never deny him the privileges he has earned in his life.

We will see, now I am nervous, I am going to try to keep up the mildly seductive chatter to keep him primed. I am still setting the stage, where I'll be when he arrives, I will warm the Kamasutra oil, light the candles and keep the music low. Now I am getting myself all worked up at the office, that sucks!! Thanks again.

 

[Player_Supreme]

1. He needs professional Help.

2. You can't save them. You don't have to be joan of arc here.

3. I would move on and let him deal with it. You two will never be a good match. He has sexual issues. It was not the abuse he put up with. Look at the fact that 6 months after a marriage he still had not had sex. NO normal man can take this.

He probably has hidden sexual issues (maybe gayish) which alot of men who hide in the church use this as an excuse. These type of men will attract women like the ones he pulled into his life.

I've also realized that these types will use sites like this to try to fix what is wrong with them inside.

He knew what he was getting into with each marriage. Plus your only hearing one side of the story although he was drunk when he told it....but how drunk was he really?.

I see more to him than meets the eye.

You enjoy sex. He actually doesn't enjoy sex with a woman. I don't care what you say in his defense. If he did, he woulda been doing it a long time ago.

Now you must ask yourself WHY are YOU trying to change this man? What is wrong with YOU inside that you allow this in YOUR life?

What happended in your life that makes you accept this type of man into your life or that you feel the need to be his savior?

What is your pay off? Will seducing him make you feel more attractive? And why do YOU need to feel this by this method and taking this kind of crap into your life?

 

[SheDevil]

PS you are GOOD and offered wonderful food for thought. Thank you for taking the time with me.

I agree he needs help, but until he does, he won't seek it.

I can't save him, he must, that I realize. I am no Joan of Arc - but I do have hope. I have seen too much progress in nine months to turn away.

He married at 20 and DID know what he was getting into to a point. (He knew she was shy, and rarely spoke) The marriage was heavily supported by both families. He went with it. No sex for 4 months kept him in a piss poor mood. But could/would you have sex with a woman who is covered to her neck, scared and for the most part crying? When he made moves this is what he got. He just offered her time. Finally he played the "your my wife...your supposed to do this..." card. 23 years later it still makes him ill.

When he left her he was excommunicated from both church and community, this meant he could only see his family on the sly. To my knowledge he has never set foot back in any church. Wife #2 was raised in the same community but got booted when her first hubby split from her. I am not familiar with the Minninite (sp) faith but seeing through his eyes I see it as more of a cult or commune then a religion.

Oh, the gayish thought, yes it has crossed my mind. He's not. How can I be sure? Can't say - I just know.

I don't feel I am trying to CHANGE him. If he was satisfied where he is sexually THEN I would be trying to change him. But is isn't, and these are his words.

How drunk was he? Well he is typically a beer/wine man. The bottle of Jim Beam had a huge dent in it, he wore a smug grin, and his hands roamed a great deal more then normal - you do the math.

What is WRONG with me that I would allow this in my life? First, I have turned down two other requests for dates in the past nine months, that was probably wrong. Secondly, I crave him. Not just want him or love him, but crave him, that's wrong too. I am working on it so cut me some slack.

I don't think anything happened in my life to make me accept him, but the whole package, is very acceptable. He is very compassionate and confident in all areas of his life, as a son, brother, uncle, etc... I think this confidence will spread to other areas once it is unlocked. I have to have sex, he is finding that out quickly, now. Should I play the "put up or shut up" card. (Tacky, sorry).

Payoff for me? Pure selfish satisfaction. When he lets go the man if FACTORY WIRED for great sex! Of course coming from a woman who can orgasm if the barametric pressure changes maybe that is not the best way of putting it. When he touches, taste, nips, strokes, he does it just right, this has to be instinct!! It is there it's just buried. I will find the damn treasure. My ex-hubby was good, my couple of experiences before and after him were good, but this is off the SCALE even before intercourse.

Will (does) seducing him make me feel more attractive? Not really attractive, it does fuel me in some way though. My seducing is mostly verbal, but it is not teasing, everything I say I mean. The things I say to him are only positive, motivational and supportive. Physically seducing is only what he allows - he is about a 14" taller and out weighs me by 140 lbs. He ain't gonna where he doesn't what to go.

Remember -- you took the time to help me even w/out knowing me. I know him, how does it make me WRONG to try to help him.

Thanks again for getting the wheels turning, you are good at it I feel you probably through things at people to keep them using that grey matter called a brain. Great Job!! and now I must work late!! Court tomorrow.

 

[Buck Toff]

Here is an applicable quote for this thread (and for these times of war):

Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully
as when they do it from religious conviction.
- Blais Pascal, 1623-1662

 

[princelydeeds]

Get the guy really drunk ( I mean just short of passing out). The whole time you are drinking start taking off items of clothing. Get him down to his underwear. Start kissing on his stomach. Sit/kneel on the floor between his knees. Brush up against him like a cat. Whisper in his ear and Rub your breasts on him. Put your coochie on his leg. Never talk about sex just keep talking about very fun things. When he gets aroused or semi-aroused just grab his c00ck and play with it. Do it like its no big deal. When he is really aroused, start sucking his C00ck. Tell him what a big D!!ck he has and how great it is in your mouth. Tell him you fantasize about him everyday and let him know you will be patient and wait till hes ready. If that works try little things like that often eventually he should come out of his shell.

Honestly I think he's got issues but if what I suggested doesnt work then sugest medical help. He might be some sort of closet Homo.

 

[Player_Supreme]

Originally posted by SheDevil
PS you are GOOD and offered wonderful food for thought. Thank you for taking the time with me.

Your welcome. I just hope Water-Tiger doesn't get Jealous on me.

Originally posted by SheDevil

I agree he needs help, but until he does, he won't seek it.

I can't save him, he must, that I realize. I am no Joan of Arc - but I do have hope. I have seen too much progress in nine months to turn away.

He married at 20 and DID know what he was getting into to a point. (He knew she was shy, and rarely spoke) The marriage was heavily supported by both families. He went with it. No sex for 4 months kept him in a piss poor mood. But could/would you have sex with a woman who is covered to her neck, scared and for the most part crying? When he made moves this is what he got. He just offered her time. Finally he played the "your my wife...your supposed to do this..." card. 23 years later it still makes him ill.

When he left her he was excommunicated from both church and community, this meant he could only see his family on the sly. To my knowledge he has never set foot back in any church. Wife #2 was raised in the same community but got booted when her first hubby split from her. I am not familiar with the Minninite (sp) faith but seeing through his eyes I see it as more of a cult or commune then a religion.

Thanks for filling in the blanks and giving a more complete picture. I am familiar with a similiar religion. I have a girl who is an ex-jehova witness. They do a complete fawk up number on your head. She was ex-communicated from her family and church cause her ex-husband cheated on her and she got drunk in a bar and was raped afterwards by a cop.

Originally posted by SheDevil

Oh, the gayish thought, yes it has crossed my mind. He's not. How can I be sure? Can't say - I just know.

LOL, famous last words. I recently watched a program on a serial killer back there. He was rich, married with a son and a wife. And a closet homosexual who was strangling his boyfawks. They attributed over 60 fatalities to him.

Not that your man is anything like that. But my point is you can never really be sure. He is probably ok, just damaged goods from a fanatical religion.

Originally posted by SheDevil



What is WRONG with me that I would allow this in my life? First, I have turned down two other requests for dates in the past nine months, that was probably wrong. Secondly, I crave him. Not just want him or love him, but crave him, that's wrong too. I am working on it so cut me some slack.

I crave him. And there you have the source of the problem here.

I take it you work in law. If you do then you must be quite successful in what you do. You hate to lose. You enjoy the power of winning. Look at your screen name. It tells me alot about you.

Now ask yourself why? Why does his touching you feel extra good over all the other men who touch you...

Is it because you want to finish this one so bad that your anticipation is working over time? You need to finish this one. To complete the act and validate you.

I'm not a pop-psychology student. These are just my opinions on what you've written and how I analyze your words.

You enjoy the power don't you. Your enjoying this game with him of the waiting and building of it. I just hope when it happens you are not quickly dissappointed.

Originally posted by SheDevil

Will (does) seducing him make me feel more attractive? Not really attractive, it does fuel me in some way though. My seducing is mostly verbal, but it is not teasing, everything I say I mean. The things I say to him are only positive, motivational and supportive. Physically seducing is only what he allows - he is about a 14" taller and out weighs me by 140 lbs. He ain't gonna where he doesn't what to go.

Remember -- you took the time to help me even w/out knowing me. I know him, how does it make me WRONG to try to help him.

Thanks again for getting the wheels turning, you are good at it I feel you probably through things at people to keep them using that grey matter called a brain. Great Job!! and now I must work late!! Court tomorrow.

Don't get caught up in your game playa. Else it will play you instead of you playing the game.

You might read the book called "the art of seduction". Read about how master seducers took their time and created obsticals for women to overcome and how it built their anticipation and the outcomes.

Good luck with your problem child.

 

[WaterTiger]

Originally posted by Player_Supreme
Your welcome. I just hope Water-Tiger doesn't get jealous on me.

Jealous? ME? Showing jealousy means that I think I have some form of ownership on you, O-He-Who-Can-Never-Be-Tamed. And we all know that is not the case...

She-Devil,

From what I understand, Mennonite is just a slim degree away from being Amish. These folks are so repressed they make the Pope look pro-abortion. I'm not sure you'll ever change his mindset. This has been drilled into him since birth. Expressing his sexuality will never be easy for him. He'll always have problems with it, and so will you.

Just keep telling him "Sex is GOOOOOD! Sex is FUN! It's OKAY to feel horny!"

I wish you the best of luck with this guy.