Having children

[Realthangpoon]

Hello,

I found this forum at 22 at my lowest, after splitting up with my first girlfriend. We dated from 17 to 22 (I’d say the crucial dating years), so I had a lot of catching up and learning to do.

I browsed the market for 5 years until I found a great woman. I’ve been dating her for 2,5 years and overall she’s been fantastic. We share the same values, she’s loyal, family oriented etc. I’m 28, she’s 24. She literally says, very often, there’s nothing she wants more than having kids with me. I want it too, but not now. Mostly because I’m still too focused on all the things I want to do and I’m afraid children will get in the way of that (travelling, job goals etc.)

Of course having children will massively change your life. I’m searching for honest input on the good, the bad and the ugly. For the people here who have children: in what way has it affected your life? And would you do it again if you knew what was ahead?

 

[ThisIsSparta]

For the people here who have children: in what way has it affected your life? And would you do it again if you knew what was ahead?

Have you been "dating" her or have you been actually living together, like every day under one roof? If so for how long?


*You will never "be ready".

*If you are the most important person for your woman now, you will be second at best after the kid is born.

*You will never love anyone as much as your kid.

*If you want to become a father, make sure you are financially set. Preferably have your own home, payed off, so that there is one less potential strain on your relationship if times become tough.

Redpill-Advice:
DO NOT marrie her, DO NOT buy a home with her, DO NOT take any loans with her. You need to pay for the home, it has to be your property and YOURS ALONE. Whatever you think of your woman now, she might become a different person after birth and if **** hits the fan you need to be prepared. The less leverage she has on you the better she will behave over the years.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Have her pay the mortgage because she gets the house in the divorce anyway.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

How do you think that will be possible in today's world?



Super bad advice.

The advice should be: you need to have a house, transfer tittle to his parents, then buy a house with her, her everyone put the same money, has the debt.

FYI, whenever you have a kid, no matter if you pay off the house and its in your name, the court will decide for the mom and the child to live there, and kick the guy out.

Check with your local laws....... obviously.

If they dont protect your property, move or forget about kids or suffer the consequences.

An alternative is finding a woman that has more money then you.


And how to afford a home? Dont live above your means, have kids when you payed the loan off, done.

We tell guys all the time that money is important right? So, instead of blowing the money on fancy dates for bytches, cars and traveling, spend it on your home.

 

[pipeman84]

Based on this post, I'd say it would be irresponsible of you to get her pregnant.

My relationship is going that direction currently and it’s driving me insane because I can’t figure out how to fix it. Moving in together made everything worse.

She’s very cute, caring, low notch count, family-oriented. But also very insecure, needing physical and emotional affirmation, demanding attention and talks a lot (almost all the time) about stuff I really don’t care about. It’s often the same stuff because she doesn’t go out much and thus can’t talk about new experiences.
Plus she doesn’t have a fixed group of girl friends to dump the figments in her brain to. To make matters worse she’s one of my good friends’ younger sister.

This situation is draining me emotionally and physically. I feel ungrounded as a man and she can feel it too, which is making everything worse. Any advice here?

IMO, you have to live together with a woman for at least 2 years, better yet 3 years and when looking back both of you should be saying and meaning it ... those were great years, as far as our relationship is concerned. Then you're ready for kids.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

"Hey
live like if you were poor, focus on paying off your house first putting a lot a of money on it, and then when you are 35 start looking for a girl to settle down with, don't travel, don't enjoy live, just be a plow horse to pay off our house first" This is the stupidest advice I've read on here.

Well..... this is how people got to something in the past. When you are young, work your ass off and build your "empire" instead of spending your money on bytches.

Leaving aside that "enjoying life" is a rather subjective term and i couldnt give more shiats about traveling for example, but thats me, i understand that its common today to start with a huge loan out of college, "enjoy life" until you are 35, then take another loan for a home you cant afford, which you will be paying back until you are 70 because you still want to "enjoy life" after all AND finance a family. You see the trap here?

I personally would in NO WAY suggest a man getting into marriage and dept with a woman. For the simple reason of losing the ability to walk away and have freedom. You will be her bytch once you are indepted with her and have kids.

Also i dont understand what you are suggesting. You dont want him to work His ass off till 35 and build something for himself and instead he should travel and have fun. Meanwhile you want him to get into family early, which i guarrantee will not allow him to travel and "enjoy life" per your definition until the kids are moving out.

I am pretty sure the times when a young man could have it all are over and they wont come back for the next decades.

You do you, but i rather enjoy my financial freedom over living above my means and ending up as old indepted man because i didnt do the work when i was young and healthy enough to do so.

I became a father with 39 and that was early enough. I wouldnt suggest a boy letting himself be trapped under 30. With todays women its more likely a recipe for desaster then not.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Hello,

I found this forum at 22 at my lowest, after splitting up with my first girlfriend. We dated from 17 to 22 (I’d say the crucial dating years), so I had a lot of catching up and learning to do.

I browsed the market for 5 years until I found a great woman. I’ve been dating her for 2,5 years and overall she’s been fantastic. We share the same values, she’s loyal, family oriented etc. I’m 28, she’s 24. She literally says, very often, there’s nothing she wants more than having kids with me. I want it too, but not now. Mostly because I’m still too focused on all the things I want to do and I’m afraid children will get in the way of that (travelling, job goals etc.)

Of course having children will massively change your life. I’m searching for honest input on the good, the bad and the ugly. For the people here who have children: in what way has it affected your life? And would you do it again if you knew what was ahead?

In the best way possible. It changes you in a way that makes you realize there is more to life than just living for yourself and until you actually have kids there isn't really a way of understanding this in that way.

I would willingly give up my life for my kids if it came down to it. No hesitation and without any thoughts at all. That's real talk.

If you don't have kids you may say that's crazy and there is no way you would ever do that. And you are right. In your current mindset and with your current thought process you likely wouldn't.

Kids change you and in some ways unlock your potential as a human being fully.

 

[ThisIsSparta]

Yeah in the past were you houses were more affordable, but now the interest that is paid, is 1.5 more than the house price.

I'm saying not get married, do everything at the same time, work hard, enjoy life, travel, hit the gym, date women so he can get experience in knowing the different women and what he wants and values in them, not one at the expense of the others, cause waiting for 35 to start dating and start enjoying doesn't sound like a good deal, maybe for a plow horse.

I think you are reading things into my postings i didnt quite say.

I never said he is supposed to wait for 35 to start fvcking/dating women. I wrote that i would recommend for him to have a home owned by him before he starts a family.

The whole point of my advice is that he DOESNT become the plow horse. Because you WILL end up as a plow horse if you go bluepilled(unprepared) into comitments that involve family courts.

 

[mikedee]

I think having children in 2023 is risky business. Women are unpredictable and unreliable, it's a gamble. I don't gamble. They can make your life a living hell.

Plus, with today's society, you might end up with a kid who doesn't what gender he is, autism, addicted to social medias, drugs, etc. They can make your life a living hell.

Not something I want to deal with.

 

[Realthangpoon]

Thanks for all the opinions and the advice.

Here’s some more context:
- We’ve been living together for over a year
- We’re not married and I don’t want to get married for the obvious reason of not getting financially rekt.
- We recently bought a house together and are now renovating. Where I live it’s very difficult to buy a house solo these days, especially with the field I’m in (that I love). It’s not badly paid but not great either. I wouldn’t want to change my job/field right now for more money.
- Every expense in the house is split 50/50. It sh*t hits the fan, we split up, we sell the house and I make a profit. House prices in this area are insane and I’m still convinced we did a bargain.

IF I’m getting kids, it’s gonna be the earliest in about 4 years. I need to see how she is in the coming years with us living together, and we need to be as stable as possible financially. We both earn decently and don’t spend money on stupid stuff.

 

[CountSuavula]

I do not recommend waiting “X amount of years until we are stable”. Just do it.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I do not recommend waiting “X amount of years until we are stable”. Just do it.

Any time something is prefaced by "I want to wait until X happens", there is a good chance someone is waiting for this self-defined "perfect time" in their life when all the stars align and they have dreamt up exactly what it will look like and they will have no other worries.

I've got news for you...in the real world, that time is never going to come and you'll be waiting for a long time until one day you realize "oh sh!t I'm 45 and I haven't done any of the main things I wanted to do because I've been waiting for that perfect time".

There is no perfect time. If that's what you are waiting for, you will be waiting til the day you die.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Yeah but this is not some jobs you wanna take the chance to get, or some adventure you wanna have and having putting on, or some chick you wanna ask out. Its a fvcking kid.

Yes that's true. But the problem stems from most people not having any real plans for their life. They simply wander thru it aimlessly with no direction like they are wondering around in a desert without a compass.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

The world needs you to repopulate the earth.

 

[Bokanovsky]

Hello,

I found this forum at 22 at my lowest, after splitting up with my first girlfriend. We dated from 17 to 22 (I’d say the crucial dating years), so I had a lot of catching up and learning to do.

I browsed the market for 5 years until I found a great woman. I’ve been dating her for 2,5 years and overall she’s been fantastic. We share the same values, she’s loyal, family oriented etc. I’m 28, she’s 24. She literally says, very often, there’s nothing she wants more than having kids with me. I want it too, but not now. Mostly because I’m still too focused on all the things I want to do and I’m afraid children will get in the way of that (travelling, job goals etc.)

Of course having children will massively change your life. I’m searching for honest input on the good, the bad and the ugly. For the people here who have children: in what way has it affected your life? And would you do it again if you knew what was ahead?

A few thoughts:

1. Finding a woman who's worth having children with is not easy these days.
2. Finding a woman who's worth having children with AND is still at peak fertility is harder still (peak fertility = healthier children).
3. Travel is pretty overrated and shouldn't be considered a "life goal".
4. Career is NOT overrated but unless you plan to be a stay-at-home dad, would having kids really affect your job goals?

All things considered, if having kids is important to you, having them sooner rather than later in life is better IMO, despite the prevailing wisdom.

 

[dj457]

I learned a great deal from this website way back in the days. Thanks for all the know-how. Now I'm an old-timer by our standards Let me give you some datapoints of what's waiting for you in 10-15 years:

1) having a kid is one of hardest things in life. 10X worse than kidney stones. you need to be a masochist. seriously. people say it's pleasure and it is pleasure but lots of pain to get there. Lots.
2) people live 80 yrs average. You get married at 25 -> you will be w/ same person for next 50 years. 50 yrs. Think about that... you can eat the same icecream only so many times...
3) you have two options: have kids early and then be kid-free during 2nd life (i.e. marry at 25, kid free at 45yrs old.). Or have kids late but be kid free before retirement (kid at 35-40, +20 yrs, they are gone before you reach 67). Which one is better? You decide. If you think you'll have a better career, save more money, and be able to (or want to) do other stuff, then get married late. If you think you have the financial means or support from family for spouse+kids, then you can do the first option.
4) Cost of Kids = lots of time and money for 20yrs. There is no getting away from this unfortunatley. say, $20k/year on average (this worth of time/money). Can you provide this? Can you save for retirement while paying this cost?
5) There is a time difference between men and women to get "mature" - Women want to get married and have kids before 30 (latest 35). As a male, I wasn't mature until 35. A good option is to reach 35-40 to marry a 10yr younger woman, so timing works well for both spouses - this is what I did.

6) Before getting married, put your spouse through many tests. i.e. take them to a camping site w/ terrible bathroom facilitites - watch how much they complain. Whatever they perform, once kid is born, it will get 500% worse.

7) The first 5 yrs of kids is especially very difficult. Very difficult. As somebody else said it, you and your spouse will learn what love is actually. Good news you will love your kid more than yourself - bad news you will realized you didn't love your spouse but liked them So be prepared to get a divorce.

8) Before you get married, do a pre-nup. People live 80yrs so after 30yrs, a divorce is very possible. Rather than going thru the emotional rollercoaster, prepare to split things or separate them ahead of time. This doesn't get executed unless divorce happens. This is another good test to put your spouse through.

Having been thru two marriages w/ kids, this is same advise I will give my boys (in addition to sending them to this website ).

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

As someone who was not planning on having children, it was and is a wonderful part of my life. I would not trade it for anything, ever. My children are my pride and joy (and pain in the arse). I wish i'd had children with a woman that was better suited to me as a partner, as we are now divorced - for my own sanity but also because it would have shown my children what a happy, healthy and loving marriage looks like.

I also, given the choice would have had kids earlier than I did - at about your age, if it had been something I wanted. You have the energy now.

 

[Machine10033]

I don’t know what the answer is. In my early 20’s I wanted a large family. I wanted a simple life... raising boys, teaching them things, watching them grow up. I hit my mid 20’s and started my red pill journey. I got hooked on self improvement...playing the game... I suddenly decided I did not want kids

I am now 43... financially secure... accomplished pretty much everything I wanted professionally and financially. Hooked up with chicks I never dreamed of hooking up with when I was a youngster. Now I have a nagging feeling of emptiness... i feel like I have so much knowledge I could have given my offspring and gave them a massive head start on life. I will grow old with a bunch of assets and die with no one to carry of my legacy.

 

[Dr.Suave]

Now I have a nagging feeling of emptiness... i feel like I have so much knowledge I could have given my offspring and gave them a massive head start on life. I will grow old with a bunch of assets and die with no one to carry of my legacy.

If I have kids, you can be their Godfather / Awesome Uncle Machine.

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

There are pros and cons. You are never ready. There is never a “best” time, only pros and cons.

In your youth you have greater energy, easier physical recovery (for her from pregnancy), and it’s less financial means.

As you mature in age you have greater financial means, greater life experience and perhaps some wisdom, but the trade off is you do not yet your own life back until later (my youngest is now 15 and I’m 54), I know friends who started at 17 or 18 who had their kids raised before 40….

Children are an enormous responsibility and expense (20K per year per kid is a decent rough estimate although multiple kids are not exactly a multiple expense because you stay in the same house as you have additional kids as an example)…..

Husband calling. More thoughts in a bit.