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Gotta lose 40lb + gain muscle

BackInTheGame78

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Haven't been brainwashed by anything, I've lifted for 20 years. I'm 5'10 180 and 12% bf and lean. There is no way a 43 year old man without test is losing that weight and adding muscle with no prior gym training. Not to mention I'd say less than 1/10 guys who attempt this don't have the will or want to complete it.

I think a combination of intermitent fasting, a massive diet change and heavy lifting with 200mg of test a week this might be possible.
Actually, surprisingly no prior gym training would be a benefit in this situation as his gains for the first 2-3 months would far surpass a person who trained regularly until they hit the wall where the body becomes accustomed to it.

The more muscle you gain and the more the body becomes accustomed to lifting, the less muscle gets broken down and the harder it is to gain more. You should know this having lifted for 20 years, it's basic physiology.

Same with protein...people think as they get bigger their body needs more protein when it really needs less since it's become hyper-efficient at using it and they are breaking down less and less muscle.

I had a lot of experience with lifting but the fact remains it certainly is possible at that age as I did this from the age of 38-45 every single year. Looking back I realize how idiotic it was to bulk and then cut since I ended up in pretty much the same place but better late than never in terms of figuring that out.

The cheat day greatly helps with cravings and allows the body to refeed and not have any chance to even think it's starving. I used to look forward to that day and literally plan it out...ice cream in the morning, taco bell for lunch, pizza for dinner...it was an all out food day.

He asked for the fastest way to accomplish it and I gave it to him. Is it difficult? Somewhat, but once you start seeing the results after the first week it starts becoming a lot easier...
 

nicksaiz65

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I did it personally every year for about 6 or 7 years where I would bulk up during the winter and then cut in the spring. Ended up perfecting it for myself and would routinely lose 25 lbs in 4 weeks, then it would take a few extra weeks to get the final 10 lbs.

People can lose weight far quicker than they think, 2 lbs a week that is parroted by everyone is pretty much unoptimized.

It went like this:

Day 1: Cheat Day-no restrictions on calories, eat whatever you want(and I mean whatever...some days were more than 10K calories). Heavy leg workout

Day 2: 24-36 hour fast. Water/coffee/tea only. No milk or sugar allowed. Workout chest

Day 3: Normal Day, maintenance calories. No workout or cardio

Day 4: Normal Day, 300-500 calories over maintenance. Workout Back.

Day 5: 24-36 hour fast. Water/coffee/tea only. No milk or sugar. Workout Arms

Day 6: Normal Day, maintenance calories. No workout or cardio

Day 7: Normal Day, maintenance calories, but eat all calories by 2pm(feeding window ends at 2pm) then fast until the next day which is the cheat day as you cycle back through. No workout or cardio/Pilates/yoga

So why does this work so well? It optimizes your hormones to want to burn fat. Most people try to cut calories and then wonder why their body tries to hold onto every ounce of fat. It's because your body does NOT want to lose fat. It's like it's savings account for tough times ahead it thinks it will have to endure with lack of food. For most people that doesn't occur, but your body doesn't know there are 24/7 grocery stores and restaurants open that you can go and eat anytime you are hungry.

The cheat day resets Leptin levels to 100%, which is your body's fat burning thermometer and revs your thyroid up to burn fat optimally. You lift heavy legs to minimize the damage done(which since it's a single day, is not much anyway). This is then followed by a fast day which helps torch fat...the cycle of normal days with slightly higher and lower calories help keep the body off balance so it never knows what is coming and then another fast day is added in later in the week. The fast starting at 2pm heading into chest day also helped blunt the effect of the cheat day. The two fasts a week basically are burning pure fat as they release huge pulses of growth hormone that helps spare muscle in the short term and also help down regulate the body's ability to store fat when overeating. So when you have your chest day, not only does it help by resetting fat brining hormones to their optimal levels, your body is not able to store fat as well as it normally would...it takes about 3 days of overeating to switch those back to optimal fat storage. Since it's only a day and then it's right back to maintenance or slightly above, the body never is allowed to enter that mode.

So how did a typical week go for me?

Gained 3 lbs after cheat day. Lost 3 lbs after the fast day. Was even going into day 3 which is where the magic would happen. Between Day 3 and Day 1 of the next cycle I would lose 6-8 lbs a week. Usually most at the beginning and then it would taper down from there...so like

Week 1: 7-8 lbs
Week2: 6-7 lbs
Week 3 and 4: 5-6 lbs
Week 5: 4 lbs
Week 6: 2 lbs
Week 7: 2 lbs
Love how you mention the extended fasting. I think it’s one of the best ways to lose weight. Especially if you have a “cheat day”, a fasting day will completely cancel it out.

I just couldn’t lose weight before I started dieting like this, but the fasting really melts it off.

If you don’t know about the power of extended fasting, or being able to use a more aggressive deficit to diet, then one cheat day(planned or not) can literally cancel out an entire week of dieting. You’ll be spinning your wheels.

Out of curiosity, do you implement any kind of intermittent fasting on your feeding days?
 

Borknagar

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Haven't been brainwashed by anything, I've lifted for 20 years. I'm 5'10 180 and 12% bf and lean. There is no way a 43 year old man without test is losing that weight and adding muscle with no prior gym training. Not to mention I'd say less than 1/10 guys who attempt this don't have the will or want to complete it.

I think a combination of intermitent fasting, a massive diet change and heavy lifting with 200mg of test a week this might be possible.
I suppose I never elaborated much when I made the post. I was once 215 with 12% body fat at 6'2. I have tons of experience. Just seeing what other things people have done. I can lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time. I've done this twice. I never checked, but I was also probably 15% body fat a year ago, but had some personal issues and gained 30lb by not going to the gym. so now I'm 260 but plan on putting on more muscle than when I was 215. 215 was around 2010. A little over a year ago I was 230, but was lifting a lot heavier and more than when I was 215 12 years ago. That 230 was me coming down from 275. I think it took me somewhere around 6 months? 300 to 215 took me 9 months.
I suppose you'd be thinking "oh he's got this". But just seeing what other ideas people have. A lot of them I gotta consider like hormones since yes I am 43. But thankfully for things such as muscle memory so I shouldn't have a hard time.
 

RBK

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I suppose I never elaborated much when I made the post. I was once 215 with 12% body fat at 6'2. I have tons of experience. Just seeing what other things people have done. I can lose body fat and gain muscle at the same time. I've done this twice. I never checked, but I was also probably 15% body fat a year ago, but had some personal issues and gained 30lb by not going to the gym. so now I'm 260 but plan on putting on more muscle than when I was 215. 215 was around 2010. A little over a year ago I was 230, but was lifting a lot heavier and more than when I was 215 12 years ago. That 230 was me coming down from 275. I think it took me somewhere around 6 months? 300 to 215 took me 9 months.
I suppose you'd be thinking "oh he's got this". But just seeing what other ideas people have. A lot of them I gotta consider like hormones since yes I am 43. But thankfully for things such as muscle memory so I shouldn't have a hard time.
Well being 6'2 definitely helps as you can hold way more weight than most at the height and will look bigger.
 

Borknagar

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Well being 6'2 definitely helps as you can hold way more weight than most at the height and will look bigger.
Yeah pretty much, and my genetics. My body type is ideal for someone who wants to look tall and have muscles. It's genetics. I also have massive calves naturally, which I guess is the hardest place to add muscle. I don't even have to work them as I wouldn't want them any bigger. My biggest problem that screwed me for years until I started working out was working in fast food as a teen. I literally ate it, all the time, until I was 28. I was 300lb, fat, and rarely got any action.
 

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Pierce.Manhammer

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may I inquire at what age? 800 is what 300-400mg/week?

NVM just read your follow up post.

At that time no. Just TRT with my levels around 800.

I tried gear previous to that but my body could never handle it. Even just on high Testosterone my blood pressure would shoot up through the roof and my heart would race a lot...and that was taking every precaution I could...making sure estradiol stayed in line, taking everything natural possible to lower blood pressure, etc...my body just wasn't cut out for it.

Actually kinda envious of people who can run it without many sides.
 
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Pierce.Manhammer

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C8FFC380-E644-4CBB-8516-20121C98448B.jpeg
Using exogenous androgenics is not a sin - TRT/HRT is not a sin, I have no pony in the game. If it benefits you and doesn’t hurt anybody else shoot 2-3g’s a week - use every tool available.

What I do take issue with is when somebody claims to be able to make huge lean gains natty. Even on gear you need to hit it hard AF to make the gains it’s not like you pin and just grow, takes will and effort. That’s the biggest misconception about PEDs.

Of course no need to advertise that you’ve found a hack it serves no purpose and could be detrimental to your social standing. Just like no man ever has told a chick he’s banging he’s on sildenafil or whatever.

Again just wanted to know what the delta was and 800mg/dl a week can be a game changer for a guy that’s 35+.

Rock on dudes
 

BackInTheGame78

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Yeah pretty much, and my genetics. My body type is ideal for someone who wants to look tall and have muscles. It's genetics. I also have massive calves naturally, which I guess is the hardest place to add muscle. I don't even have to work them as I wouldn't want them any bigger. My biggest problem that screwed me for years until I started working out was working in fast food as a teen. I literally ate it, all the time, until I was 28. I was 300lb, fat, and rarely got any action.
I have big calves as well thanks to my Dad who has the biggest calves I have ever seen in my life. He used to workout back in the day but even tho he stopped quite some time ago, his calves stayed huge and muscular. If he would have entered a calf bodybuilding show he would have won easily. Puts pro bodybuilders to shame.

I measured them once growing up and they were 26". Mine are 19" and people tell me I have huge calves...I laugh and tell them they should see my Dad...still has bigger calves than me at almost 80.
 

RBK

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I do 300-400mg every 5-7 days. 800 puts me squarely in the high middle range of normal. Get tested every 3 months so I know my numbers fairly well.
Thats a ton of T. Id be 2500 at that level not to mention E2 issues for me
 

DonJuanjr

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Thats a ton of T. Id be 2500 at that level not to mention E2 issues for me
I was thinking the same thing... Most only need 125mg/week of Test to hit around 800.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Jesus Christ... Even if he's over weight, and some of that is fat, it's still huge!
He wasn't overweight, his calves were just ginormous and they were massively muscular...

He grew up in a foreign country and as a kid he said his job was to pump water twice a day for the house...the pump was up on a hill so every pump made him basically do a calf raise and then have to push down hard since it wasn't easy to pump downwards. Now imagine doing 200-300 pumps twice a day everyday for like 7 or 8 years...

That is how he claims his calves got so big...don't think there would be any real way for a normal person to even try and reproduce that...
 
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IKO69

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There's some pretty good detailed advice here so I won't say too much. I'm not exactly sure how fast you need to lose it by but you can definitely space it out over a few months. After my engagement fell apart I went into a depression for a while, it was easily one of the worst periods of my life and I ballooned from 175 to 225 lbs. This was just before the holidays, from late October and last until around April. I lost enthusiasm for everything - stopped working out, stopped kickboxing & judo and just ate and ate for comfort. A lot of my pants and stuff no longer fit. I got a grip on things and started back in May and by the end of August I had shed most of the weight. I followed a boxing style workout taking inspiration from one of my heroes, Joe Calzaghe. I did lots of running, calisthenics, bag work etc on my own but also got back involved with martial arts.

Main things are taking up a form of exercise (if you aren't) and diet. Keto works for some people if you have the discipline. I never did something like that but I did significantly reduce my carb intake. I allowed myself to have a candy bar or a soda or two on the weekends, but rest of the time I was disciplined. I don't believe you have to deprive yourself entirely, but you know be sensible. The other thing that is really important and I was glad to see mentioned is sleep. This is very important, you need rest for repair, but it also aids in weight loss.
 

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Borknagar

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There's some pretty good detailed advice here so I won't say too much. I'm not exactly sure how fast you need to lose it by but you can definitely space it out over a few months. After my engagement fell apart I went into a depression for a while, it was easily one of the worst periods of my life and I ballooned from 175 to 225 lbs. This was just before the holidays, from late October and last until around April. I lost enthusiasm for everything - stopped working out, stopped kickboxing & judo and just ate and ate for comfort. A lot of my pants and stuff no longer fit. I got a grip on things and started back in May and by the end of August I had shed most of the weight. I followed a boxing style workout taking inspiration from one of my heroes, Joe Calzaghe. I did lots of running, calisthenics, bag work etc on my own but also got back involved with martial arts.

Main things are taking up a form of exercise (if you aren't) and diet. Keto works for some people if you have the discipline. I never did something like that but I did significantly reduce my carb intake. I allowed myself to have a candy bar or a soda or two on the weekends, but rest of the time I was disciplined. I don't believe you have to deprive yourself entirely, but you know be sensible. The other thing that is really important and I was glad to see mentioned is sleep. This is very important, you need rest for repair, but it also aids in weight loss.
You probably dodged a bullet with the engagement. Take it from me, a divorced guy, but I'm surely not the first to say that though.
But yes that is pretty good, and definitely do not deprive yourself. I once lost 20lb in two months which isn't all that different from your loss and I was still getting piss drunk on the weekends and ending the night with a bunch of McDonalds or White Castle. Imagine if I skipped that, probably would have been at least another 5lb. Right now I'm doing the same kinda thing, but added Creatine. Oh and I've always taken protein and and protein rich foods when I've done this. Sadly I can't keep it consistent for more than a couple years and keep stopping the workouts. I don't handle personal stress well.
 

BackInTheGame78

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There's some pretty good detailed advice here so I won't say too much. I'm not exactly sure how fast you need to lose it by but you can definitely space it out over a few months. After my engagement fell apart I went into a depression for a while, it was easily one of the worst periods of my life and I ballooned from 175 to 225 lbs. This was just before the holidays, from late October and last until around April. I lost enthusiasm for everything - stopped working out, stopped kickboxing & judo and just ate and ate for comfort. A lot of my pants and stuff no longer fit. I got a grip on things and started back in May and by the end of August I had shed most of the weight. I followed a boxing style workout taking inspiration from one of my heroes, Joe Calzaghe. I did lots of running, calisthenics, bag work etc on my own but also got back involved with martial arts.

Main things are taking up a form of exercise (if you aren't) and diet. Keto works for some people if you have the discipline. I never did something like that but I did significantly reduce my carb intake. I allowed myself to have a candy bar or a soda or two on the weekends, but rest of the time I was disciplined. I don't believe you have to deprive yourself entirely, but you know be sensible. The other thing that is really important and I was glad to see mentioned is sleep. This is very important, you need rest for repair, but it also aids in weight loss.
I don't disagree Keto will work, much of it due to depleting glycogen stores in the muscle making people think they lost fat weight when a lot of it is glycogen/water. Like anything else tho if you are taking in fewer calories than you are burning in a day you will lose weight. You could eat pure sugar or junk food and lose weight as long as the caloric intake was sufficiently low enough. You would feel like crap most likely and your blood work would probably be jacked up, but you'd lose weight.

I just don't think it's an optimal way to do it and the negative side effects for me, mainly being significant strength losses and muscles looking flat due to glycogen/water being missing from the muscles. A volumized muscle cell is a strong muscle cell. Keto does the opposite and devolumizes them.

IMO carb cycling will give all the benefits of keto without these drawbacks.
 
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DonJuanjr

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IMO carb cycling will give all the benefits of keto without these drawbacks.
I've done keto for over a year, and I lost the same amount of weight doing keto as just following a normal 500 calorie deficit without carb cycling and weight lifting. I'd rather not sacrifice just about everything but berries (carb wise) just to do keto...
 

Fruitbat

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As for Keto.

it works. Nothing gets close to its fat Removal.

HOWEVER: Do it clean. I didn’t, I ended up in hospital with reactivated mono at age 38. I was in a world of shyt. Not enough vitamins, just burgers and meat all day.

It may not be related but it seemed a weird coincidence.

I have been shot down by Keto advocates but I never saw much difference between 20g carbs and 50-60. Both shifted fat rapidly but the higher carb level allowed more balanced eating and is doable long term.

Any diet which limits fruits and vegetables has a flaw IMO.

you can’t go wrong with chicken and fish and salad. If you hit 40g carbs so what.
 

DonJuanjr

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it works. Nothing gets close to its fat Removal.
This isn't true... As stated above your comment, I too have done keto, and used a blood meter... So I know for a fact when I was in ketosis or not. It's just as easy to lose weight following a standard 500 calorie deficit diet with moderate to high protein, minimal fats, and rest carbs.

I have been shot down by Keto advocates but I never saw much difference between 20g carbs and 50-60.
Going as high as 50-60g would knock people out of ketosis. With a blood meter, you'll see that it's very finicky.
 
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