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Friendzone is a MYTH


Senior Don Juan
Jul 3, 2019
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Maybe pickup artists and dating coaches do use warning of the friendzone to motivate guys to take action,but they didn't create it for that purpose. The friendzone was around LONG BEFORE the PUA movement started.

The friendzone IS REAL. I know it is,because I fell in it one,two.....10,000 times before.....in my younger days before I "got" it.

I have a PHD in Friendzonology. NO ONE got friendzoned more than I did. It happened so much,I actually got to the point I could "sense" it starting to happen with a girl before it even came to pass....but I couldn't stop it from happening because I didn't know what I was doing that was causing it. I know NOW....but it was a NIGHTMARE back in my late teens to early 20s.

You DO. Letting a girl know you have interest as soon as possible gives you the BEST CHANCE of making something romantic/sexual happening. There's no NEUTRAL GROUND with a woman as far as HER EMOTIONS/FEELINGS are concerned.
She either sees you in a sexual light....or she don't. She either feels something towards you......or she don't.

Have you ever walked into a room at night? There's two ways you can have darkness in a room.

1: You can turn the light switch off.

Know what the other is? You can walk into a room that's already dark...and simply DO NOTHING.....as in don't flip the switch on.

With a woman,you can TURN HER OFF......either by your words or behavior. Or,you can do NOTHING......as in don't show interest....talk to her as just another person on the planet. If she's at a counter,you walk up,conduct your business,then go on. You didn't turn her off with some attraction-killing words or behavior,but you didn't flirt/compliment/show sexual interest either.

If you come in contact with her MULTIPLE TIMES,over a long period of time....NOT SHOWING INTEREST....she'll get used to you being that way. In essense,you'll get friendzoned by DEFAULT.

This is why when a guy does finally make a move on a chick he's had lots of contact with WITHOUT being sexual or showing some type of interest,you get the "I don't see you THAT WAY".....or "I don't like you LIKE THAT" type comments.

It's not the girl's fault.


You say the girl has to have feelings first before the action to work,that you have to get her emotions invested BEFORE being upfront can be effective. Ok......HOW? How do you do this?

I'm in a store....see some cute chick I've never seen before,would like to take her out. I say you have to be upfront about your interest.
You say I have to get her emotionally invested FIRST. How would you suggest this be done? I do KINDA agree with you.

Uhh......true......but......this is kinda OFF TOPIC. I'm going by THE TITLE of this thread. It's not about whether she reciprocates or not. Not about whether she rejects you or not. It's about whether the friendzone is a MYTH or not.....her saying yes or no to a date with you has NO BEARING on that.

And I'm saying being upfront WILL AUTOMATICALLY KILL ANY CHANCES of you getting friendzoned......whether she says yes or no.

If she says yes,you get a date.
If she says no,you move on to the next girl.

Where's the friendzone in that?

ok....uhhh.....kinda too much to unpack here. Maybe some guys do this: I don't know. I just know I DON'T.

MY purpose in being upfront is to IMMEDIATELY present myself as a possible sexual option. See this way,she CAN'T SAY "I don't see you that way" because I presented myself "that way" FROM THE VERY BEGINNING. She knows from the getgo I see her sexually....as a WOMAN. I inserted the idea of HER AND I into her mind. Whether she accepts it or rejects it...that's up to her......but IT'S THERE.

I agree. MY POINT....is that that emotional investment has to have A BEGINNING. It has to start from somewhere.

And while emotional investment TAKES TIME..........a SPARK DOES NOT. A spark can be generated in AN INSTANT........hence,MY PURPOSE in being upfront.

OK.......I think there's a slight distinction that needs to be understood here.....

You said if a woman in a 3 year relationship breaks it off and goes with a new guy,do we think the new guy won her over cause he "spilled his guts" right away to her.

I don't think showing interest in a woman...and "spilling your guts" is the same thing. If I see some random chick I want to talk to,showing my interest just means I find her attractive and want to take her out.........not that I "love" or have deep feelings for her. She knows she's not special,cause I could LITERALLY turn my head,see another girl,and be just as attracted to her or more. She KNOWS that.

"Spilling your guts" suggests FEELINGS. I can't have feelings/an emotional bond towards some chick I just saw for the first time ever. If you approach a girl giving out that type of vibe,you're right.....she'll run for the hills.

Well I disagree with you on this one. I have enough friendzone experiences TO KNOW the sh1t IS REAL. I also know what causes it.......and I'm telling you......being upfront with your interest GREATLY DECREASES your chances of getting friendzoned.

I didn't say you'd automatically get the girl. Just that the hurdle of possibly getting friendzoned would be removed.
I agree with most of this. In my experience you need to let her know that you are interested in her very early on. If she goes along with it great. If her response is one of disinterest you remove all attention from her and walk away.

Men are in the friend zone because they allow themselves to be. Cut off the attention and walk away.


Master Don Juan
Oct 22, 2007
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Eastern Time Zone where it's always really late
I agree with most of this. In my experience you need to let her know that you are interested in her very early on. If she goes along with it great. If her response is one of disinterest you remove all attention from her and walk away.

Men are in the friend zone because they allow themselves to be. Cut off the attention and walk away.
Agree completely.

Most guys stall in the FZ by not expressing interest due to many possible reasons:

1. (Most common.)They already sense that she’s not attracted and don’t really want to find out for sure. Ignorance is bliss. So they cling to the hope that she’ll grow attached over time and the outcome will improve. Good luck with that lol.

2. She’s taken at the moment.

3. She’s a coworker, so there’s no risk free way to express interest.

4. She’s a social circle (or work/school) chick, and he’s worried about being a target of gossip if she isn’t interested. (If she agrees to date you, she has a vested interest to keep it quiet. If she rejects you, she will tell everyone because it’s juicy gossip. And it’s a subtle humblebrag that she rejected you because she’s out of your league.)

5. He’s a shy or inexperienced guy who is afraid to let her know or doesn’t know how.

6. Tied to #1. If she rejects him for dating, things will probably get awkward, and he’ll lose her as a friend also. And he’s bent on keeping her in his life (even as a fake friendship) because he’s obsessed with her. So he’s afraid to “rock the boat” at all.

I’m not endorsing any of these reasons. Just explaining how friendzoned guys sometimes think.
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Master Don Juan
Apr 30, 2006
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We can agree to disagree on the existence of “friendzone.”

But it’s generally understood to mean that you have no chance with a girl because of one of two reasons:

1. You are not her type physically, and she can never see herself being intimate with you. It’s over before it started.

2. She was attracted to you for a while, but you did not show interest in dating her during that time. She gave up on you and lost any romantic/sexual interest in you.

The reason PUA gurus harp on making a move quickly is because a lot of guys wait too long and end up in #2. (If you’re in #1, whether you wait or act is a moot point.)

But I agree with you that moving TOO QUICKLY is also counterproductive. She might like your look, but if she hasn’t developed any feelings or “chemistry” yet, and you hit on her, you will weird her out.*

*This whole discussion presumes that it’s a social circle chick that you have a fair amount of time to interact with. (Not a random encounter or ONS pickup.)
I think to handle being in the "friendzone" is just to not take it so seriously - the chick is like a sale that hasn't been finalized, and may never get finalized. If you have opportunities with other women, then by all means pursue them; of course, if you have no other options, then the friendzone is your only hope, Obi-Wan. :mad: What you definitely cannot get yourself into is being the tampon hearing about her love life with other men; should that ever happen, you should give the cold shoulder indicating that you are not to be used in that way.

A period of friendzoning with a chick who is (or mostly is) chaste could be worth in that she won't have romantic hysteresis, which is a problem with the chicks that have the 100-c0ck stare.