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Five tough lessons I have learned after consistently running game for months.

Jesse Pinkman

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In 2022, I made an investment to take game seriously by going out every weekend and talking to women (occasionally weekdays too). I have managed to get numbers, dates, and lays but also come away with some lessons. Before this, I relied on dating apps and a lot of drinking + drunk approaches at night to get laid. Here are five lessons I have learned so far.

First, I want to thank @SW15, @Jake_Gyllenhaal69, @BillyPilgrim, and many of you on here (do not mean to forget too many names here) for helping me in my journey! Here are the lessons:

1. This crap is tough.

I sat down and watched some College Football today after spending hours yesterday night and even today just walking around and running game. Let me make one thing clear here, this thing is freaking hard. I used to hate the guys that LTR quick in their 20s and spend their weekends golfing and chugging beer over some sports. Occasionally, I think about it too. I think about just spending a weekend where all I do is watch sports, drink some beer, and do anything but talk to women. The rejections, awkwardness, and all of that adds up and it really tests you as a guy. However, it comes and goes in waves.

All it takes is one good weekend where you rack up numbers like crazy and have a number of dates to understand why you do this.

2. Most wingmen, and men in general, are completely worthless and useless when it comes to game.

Let me make one point clear here, most men, even those into pickup and game, rarely approach!

Good wingmen exist but they are very rare as @SW15 will tell you. Most men do not approach women and of the ones that do, most of them are seriously awful. All too often, I have seen dudes approach fat chicks in place of hot ones because they didn't want to get their egos crushed. I used to be in a Pickup Group when I first got to my city and I was amazed at just how awful most guys who actually read the pickup crap are.

I even had nights where the guys in the group were too busy gossiping about the group rather than doing game. It got so bad to where I decided to do solo nightgame. Then come to find that the same guys who would not do an approach that whole night would try to either barge into my sets that were going well or ask me for favors despite not doing a thing for me.

Let me put it this way, if you meet a wing that does the following, consider yourself lucky:
  • Goes out to game with you
  • Actually approaches
  • Talks to girls that actually look good
3. Most men into pickup are seriously unaware of how toxic, cringe, and useless they are.

Sticking to this one point about men, it has truly amazed me as to how much dudes lack self-awareness about this. I had one wing from the group a few months ago who promised to meet up with me but was late. Then, come to find, he didn't even do much of an approach when we met up. We agree to meet up again a week later at a bar and he was there with two of his guy friends that knew him from high school. The whole time, even though he asked me to meet up, he acted real dismissive towards me while his high school friends were being smug.

I ignore him and do some approaches that mostly go bad. However, I hook one set and am close to taking them elsewhere. Soon, wing and his friends jump in on the set and start talking to them which they found weird. Issue is, they knew me and somehow that led to the whole set being ruined. Things get really weird here because a few weeks later, wing sees me out at an exclusive place and is DMing me left and right to get him in.

For this reason, I am picky about who I wing with.

Way too many men act clingy and desperate around OTHER MEN which makes it pretty clear around why they struggle with women and dating. If I am noticing these traits in these dudes, I cannot imagine how women will feel about them.

4. Your life situation will always pore over into game, fix your life first before going full on in game.

Toxic work?

Family issues?

Confidence issues?

Health issues?

All of that will come out into game if you are doing it right. Too many guys get into game without having their lives handled first, something I agree on with @Fruitbat whenever we have chatted. I faced a crushing and draining work situation like @LARaiders85 had and it impacted my energy for game. I had to practically quit my job because of how beaten I was emotionally, mentally, and even spiritually. Thankfully, things are now looking great for me and I should recover really well but when I had the toxic work I had, I was not myself and easily irritated when it came to game.

Whatever crap you are going through in life, game will unveil it. Sh-tests by women will uncover and peel that onion. Get your life handled first or put yourself in a place where it does not emotionally crush you if you want to do well in game.

5. In the end, nothing beats that feeling of success in game that very few men will experience.

The feeling of walking down the street and chatting up a hot girl as jealous dudes who don't have the balls to do that look around. They want you to get rejected and fail but you get that number. Number turns into a date. Dates sometimes turn into lays.

I have played on a football team before in high school that won a lot of games and I have achieved a lot of cool stuff in life. However, none of that rivals the feeling of pulling through. Nothing rivals that feeling of going through rejection after rejection but then one hot girl finally gives you the time of the day and you two are going on a date a day or two later.

Very few men will experience this.

Most men will play golf on weekends as they chug beer over a football game. Most men will settle with a girl they met at work or in a social circle. Most men will get into an LTR and marry fast. Very few men will go through the grind of the game.

In a way, the game tests you and it breaks most men. It breaks you in a unique way that tests even the toughest guys out there. When you do pull through and have some successes, nothing feels better.

I got ways to go, I have been in a slump as of late, and I have been tested like nothing else. However, your guy is not giving up!
 

characternote

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Good stuff.

1/ Yes, it's very tough. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either leveraging a tonne of money and/or extremely good looks, is banging girls uglier and older than they are, or are flat out lying

2/ yeah, I had similar experiences when I was slightly newer and actually went out with guys who knew all about 'game' and were in the community and talked a good game online. I was expecting to see magic, but what I saw was a bunch of awkward guys. Some making no approaches all night. And some just creeping girls out or just wanting to talking theory about why some new 'technique' they're read about doesn't seem to be working like they read it would in the books. I don't go out with anyone in the community anymore, or at least haven't in years (i'd go out with you if you lived in the same country! :))

it's why I don't believe so many of these claims and stuff from these guys on various forums. ''I've banged 2000 girls'', ''I have point and click abilities and can get any girl I want because of my NLP verbals' etc etc. I actually used to believe this sh1t, but now i'm convinced that they are all just oddball fantasists sitting on their PC making stuff up to assuage their mental health issues

3/ It's awesome when you have a good wing. I've only really experienced a great wing (2 in fact) once, when I went travelling to Budapest. I've written about them before. Two US marines. They were just the most confident, but cool and funny guys you could imagine. Super social and friendly. A social hurricane going through the club, making friends and flirting. If they see me in set they naturally look out for obstacles and help deal with them (friends etc). One night one of them even dealed with the logistics and stuff for me lol. All 3 of us pulled every single night I was with them. If only I had wings like that here. My wingmen are mainly just guys who don't really approach, or just jump in if I eventually manage to hook a set, or it's my super handsome wingman who is a great friend (and helped me get laid wheni was younger in various ways) but it plays havock with my mind and i'm always playing second fiddle to him since his attraction from girls is through the roof. It wasn't unusual for me to be gaming a girl and doing really well, maybe even beginning to make out, and then she notices him as he enters to bar and waves at me to say, 'hi', and from that point, he is ALL she wants. And she actively tries to bang him lol. You don't need that from a wing. Not his fault of course! lol

4/ Probably. Although I actually had some of my biggest successes with game when my life was more screwed up, tbh! unemployed, Was less confident (partly due to the fact I was newer and had laid less girls at that point) and I was back living with my parents (even though it's more common to do that here in the UK since rent prices and general cost of living is INSANE here) it was still less that ideal! Maybe it helped that I'd already had a list of excuses and flat out lies for the girls who did seem to care (I lied about my 'job', my housing situation, and everything else to ensure I got the lay)

5/ Hell yeah. It makes it all worth while. I still get rejected a tonne. I actually think UK culture whereby people don't tend to talk to strangets makes cold approach possibly even tougher, and I have So many approaches still where the girls are looking at me like i'm on fire after I open and stuff, and it of course goes nowhere, but I still manage to get these really pretty girls half my age from time to time, and it makes it all worth while to me, personally. I'll never forget the first time I banged a girl that was WAY out of my league lol. I even filmed the sex in parts because I was kind of aware that it was something akin too a lottery win! haha. Keep fighting the good fight
 
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Zimbabwe

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When people hear that you are reading The Game and trying to get better at "picking up women," they assume that you are trying to acquire skills to get laid promiscuously, possibly misleading women along the way. This is something that nobody admires.

What people (especially women) fail to realise is that a significant portion of men do not naturally attract and connect with women. Thus, not only do they not have the option of being a casanova if they so chose, they also are very limited in their ability to enter into satisfying romantic relationships with women.

Learning how to relate to and then attract women can have a very positive impact on one's life. The end game (no pun intended) of acquiring pickup skills for most men is not actually wearing outlandish clothes like Mystery and sleeping with hundreds of women. Rather, it's developing the confidence to actually start flirting, attracting, going on dates, and then hopefully having relationships. Maybe it takes months of practice and memorised openers to get there, but in my eyes there's nothing wrong with that.

Put any woman in the position of a 5' 5" male who is socially awkward and immediately she'd realise the importance of game.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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It's a lot of guys pander. Issue finding wings is that, most aren't mercenaries. They checkout the 1st sec a girl touches their weenie. The purpose is to pick up and pull. The sec most guys get an ounce of success, they bend the knee. They play house to a skank. 1 former wing dropped off after getting a older gf. Stopped approach, no lifting, stopped coming out with the boys. Suddenly starts messaging. Sure enough she dumped him.

A gf doesn't mean become a big ****ing phaggot. It means turning up even harder than before. Not switching off.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

Master Don Juan
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In 2022, I made an investment to take game seriously by going out every weekend and talking to women (occasionally weekdays too). I have managed to get numbers, dates, and lays but also come away with some lessons. Before this, I relied on dating apps and a lot of drinking + drunk approaches at night to get laid. Here are five lessons I have learned so far.

First, I want to thank @SW15, @Jake_Gyllenhaal69, @BillyPilgrim, and many of you on here (do not mean to forget too many names here) for helping me in my journey! Here are the lessons:

1. This crap is tough.

I sat down and watched some College Football today after spending hours yesterday night and even today just walking around and running game. Let me make one thing clear here, this thing is freaking hard. I used to hate the guys that LTR quick in their 20s and spend their weekends golfing and chugging beer over some sports. Occasionally, I think about it too. I think about just spending a weekend where all I do is watch sports, drink some beer, and do anything but talk to women. The rejections, awkwardness, and all of that adds up and it really tests you as a guy. However, it comes and goes in waves.

All it takes is one good weekend where you rack up numbers like crazy and have a number of dates to understand why you do this.

2. Most wingmen, and men in general, are completely worthless and useless when it comes to game.

Let me make one point clear here, most men, even those into pickup and game, rarely approach!

Good wingmen exist but they are very rare as @SW15 will tell you. Most men do not approach women and of the ones that do, most of them are seriously awful. All too often, I have seen dudes approach fat chicks in place of hot ones because they didn't want to get their egos crushed. I used to be in a Pickup Group when I first got to my city and I was amazed at just how awful most guys who actually read the pickup crap are.

I even had nights where the guys in the group were too busy gossiping about the group rather than doing game. It got so bad to where I decided to do solo nightgame. Then come to find that the same guys who would not do an approach that whole night would try to either barge into my sets that were going well or ask me for favors despite not doing a thing for me.

Let me put it this way, if you meet a wing that does the following, consider yourself lucky:
  • Goes out to game with you
  • Actually approaches
  • Talks to girls that actually look good
3. Most men into pickup are seriously unaware of how toxic, cringe, and useless they are.

Sticking to this one point about men, it has truly amazed me as to how much dudes lack self-awareness about this. I had one wing from the group a few months ago who promised to meet up with me but was late. Then, come to find, he didn't even do much of an approach when we met up. We agree to meet up again a week later at a bar and he was there with two of his guy friends that knew him from high school. The whole time, even though he asked me to meet up, he acted real dismissive towards me while his high school friends were being smug.

I ignore him and do some approaches that mostly go bad. However, I hook one set and am close to taking them elsewhere. Soon, wing and his friends jump in on the set and start talking to them which they found weird. Issue is, they knew me and somehow that led to the whole set being ruined. Things get really weird here because a few weeks later, wing sees me out at an exclusive place and is DMing me left and right to get him in.

For this reason, I am picky about who I wing with.

Way too many men act clingy and desperate around OTHER MEN which makes it pretty clear around why they struggle with women and dating. If I am noticing these traits in these dudes, I cannot imagine how women will feel about them.

4. Your life situation will always pore over into game, fix your life first before going full on in game.

Toxic work?

Family issues?

Confidence issues?

Health issues?

All of that will come out into game if you are doing it right. Too many guys get into game without having their lives handled first, something I agree on with @Fruitbat whenever we have chatted. I faced a crushing and draining work situation like @LARaiders85 had and it impacted my energy for game. I had to practically quit my job because of how beaten I was emotionally, mentally, and even spiritually. Thankfully, things are now looking great for me and I should recover really well but when I had the toxic work I had, I was not myself and easily irritated when it came to game.

Whatever crap you are going through in life, game will unveil it. Sh-tests by women will uncover and peel that onion. Get your life handled first or put yourself in a place where it does not emotionally crush you if you want to do well in game.

5. In the end, nothing beats that feeling of success in game that very few men will experience.

The feeling of walking down the street and chatting up a hot girl as jealous dudes who don't have the balls to do that look around. They want you to get rejected and fail but you get that number. Number turns into a date. Dates sometimes turn into lays.

I have played on a football team before in high school that won a lot of games and I have achieved a lot of cool stuff in life. However, none of that rivals the feeling of pulling through. Nothing rivals that feeling of going through rejection after rejection but then one hot girl finally gives you the time of the day and you two are going on a date a day or two later.

Very few men will experience this.

Most men will play golf on weekends as they chug beer over a football game. Most men will settle with a girl they met at work or in a social circle. Most men will get into an LTR and marry fast. Very few men will go through the grind of the game.

In a way, the game tests you and it breaks most men. It breaks you in a unique way that tests even the toughest guys out there. When you do pull through and have some successes, nothing feels better.

I got ways to go, I have been in a slump as of late, and I have been tested like nothing else. However, your guy is not giving up!
Have changed jobs?
 

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dogsta

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Interesting stuff, thanks for sharing.

I found this site by accident - and I wasn't looking for 'game' related material, but I do like a good forum and like to add 'forum' to browser searches if I'm interested in a topic and on a topic people may write about. I was impressed with some of the content here and decided to join. And the site has got me thinking about what is it about me that makes me successful with women - or not. And what do I do that works, and not work. I'm glad I found this place. I've never considered myself a PUA or whatever, but as my friends would say, 'I do well with the ladies.'

Anyway, I think game strategy really depends on what your goals are. I see quite often guys here talk about game to date, LTR or build up a rotation. Which is good to point out at the start before imparting on any 'wisdom'.

Personally, I solo night and look to close that night - there are exceptions such as if you visit the same establishment a lot, familiar faces, etc. Yes, that makes me sound a bit of an arsehole (and you might be right), I'm don't call myself 'dog' for nothing! I wouldn't night-game for dating/LTRs, though.

Past five years I've been on my grind and not chased women at all. But I've got that itch now (to bed women), so I've started to have some fun again.

Sorry for the waffle before actually getting to any points!

1) Is it tough, though? I'm still mulling over this sort of point. I still think you either attract women or you don't. That would be a tough realisation to be in - that you're invisible. But for sure, one has to put themselves out there to get results (easy for me to say being a 'mature' experienced man).

Saying that, I did get called a player Friday night (I guess the 30-something women are wiser than I give 'em credit for!)

Also was called a misogynist by another, so I asked her what is that:

"It's a woman hater."
"I don't hate women," I say, "I enjoy women."
She aggressively flicked her hair and changed the subject. She approached me, by the way. We talked for about ten minutes and I spent it challenging her viewpoints. I guess there's a balance to be had.

2 & 3) Totally agree with this. Many men are clueless at game. I've never had a wingman, either. Men I know that, 'do well with the ladies' are solo. But, I'm happy to hang with a couple of guys on a night out - I see it as a rest point and just relax - before moving out again to game.

4) Agree and disagree. But a man should be looking to improve his lot for himself and definitely not for women. If you're in a good place, it will radiate out of you for sure.

5) Eh, well, I enjoy women and especially enjoy women that genuinely enjoyed the experience.

What I will say is, for night game, don't get drunk. Line your stomach with a good meal. Drink light, slowly, have your faculties in order. Work the room. Get your marks. If you don't leave early with a mark, end times is good times - kicking out time. IF you do get drunk, dance it off and go home alone - it's best to consider it game over at that point.

Going back to 1), I definitely think there are ways to be more noticed (to improve/learn) and to be social is an art, right? I think that's a key point. Learning how to work a room - not just fixating on one element (gaming women). I guess it is tough. A lot to learn. And one can only achieve that by actually doing.
 

SW15

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Most men will play golf on weekends as they chug beer over a football game. Most men will settle with a girl they met at work or in a social circle. Most men will get into an LTR and marry fast. Very few men will go through the grind of the game.

In a way, the game tests you and it breaks most men. It breaks you in a unique way that tests even the toughest guys out there. When you do pull through and have some successes, nothing feels better.
I agree that most men settle. However, I'm seeing more and more men settle for whatever woman from a swipe app decided to jump off the carousel for him. Swipe apps are leading to more relationships simply because more people are using them. However, most people are having lousy experiences on them. Fewer relationships are forming through either work or social circles but the ones that do form tend to last a bit longer than things formed the apps.

Beta males with social circles can get a long term girlfriend. Beta males without social circles typically end up dating down in terms of looks from a swipe app.

The grind of game is tough, leading to the next point.

1. This crap is tough.
Most normies don't realize how tough it is. Most normie males don't do non-bar approaching, so they don't understand that at all. Some normies have done approaching at bars, but even this is declining.

Bar approaching has never been a fun thing for a lot of singles. That's the reason why personal ads in the newspapers existed in the 1970s-1980s, dating websites came along in the 1990s-2000s, and then swipe apps in the 2010s. The newspaper personal ads and early years of the dating websites were super stigmatized though.

Millennials were never too big on bar approaching, at least compared to Boomers in the 1970s-1980s and Gen X'ers in the 1990s to mid-2000s. When the Boomers and Gen X'ers were in their 20s and 30s, they didn't have much of an alternative if they didn't have a social circle. Even the oldest Millennials (1981/82-1985) came of age in the 2000s just as online dating websites were become de-stigmatized and then swipe apps came along.

Most normie males that had to rely on dating websites or dating apps at some point in the last 10-15 years will understand to an extent how tough the game is. These guys who were on the websites and apps didn't have the stomach to handle the toughness of in-person approaching.

4. Your life situation will always pore over into game, fix your life first before going full on in game.
Yes, I can relate to this. During my stints of unemployment in 2013 and 2020, there were impacts upon my dating and relationship life. Most white collar men with girlfriends will lose their girlfriends if they lose their jobs. It's often difficult to start new relationships during periods of unemployment. Health issues are relevant too because women don't want to start new relationships with men experiencing a health issue. Family issues can be relevant too, depending upon the family issue. Dating as a single parent sucks too, even for single dads.

5. In the end, nothing beats that feeling of success in game that very few men will experience.
A small victory like talking to a woman for 5 minutes in a park, on a path, or from a fitness class feels better than sitting at home, swiping, and texting.

They checkout the 1st sec a girl touches their weenie.
This applies to 2 friends I've made since moving to my current city.

The first one is in his mid-30s and married his college era girlfriend. I met him in 2011 as a recent college grad guy with a recent college grad girlfriend. In 2011, his girlfriend was above average looking. She was in the upper echeleon of the cute range. I called her a 7 then. Her looks were already starting to deteriorate by 2015, when they started living together. Living together led to getting a dog, then a marriage proposal, then a wedding, then a house in the suburbs, and then pregnancy and kids. Would you want all that with an asset that was deteriorating? That does sound to me like a guy who checked out when a cute girl touched his weenie. He was considering breaking up with her in 2013, but couldn't then because he still wanted to ride out her peak. In my opinion, he stayed around too long. I think he partially stayed around out of the fear that he could not replicate what he did in 2010 with getting an upper echeleon cute range girl to touch his weenie.

Another male friend read some of the 2000s era classic books of pickup. Ended up meeting a girl through social circle in 2013. She has big, natural tits, isn't fat, but she's a complete dullard with zero personality. I know personality doesn't matter that much but she can't even meet a low threshold of it. The guy has stayed with her for 9 years, moved in with her many years ago, and just put a ring on it this year. Once again, this sounds like a guy who checked out once a girl touched his weenie. He never applied much of the lessons from the pickup books of the 2000s he read.

They play house to a skank.
This applies to the most successful of my local area friends in attraction-seduction. He has a triple digit notch count. This is a 6'4" White male who was an NCAA athlete in a country club sport and has had solid white collar employment.

He was regimented about his pickup efforts. He would get semi-intoxicated his apartment, roll to the bars and arrive around 11:30 PM-12 PM. From that point, he would spam approach everything with a rather weak pickup line, and then roll out around 1:30 AM-2 AM (2 AM is closing time) with whatever woman was most into him that night. He was only able to get away with this due to being 6'4" and having a look that bougie, cookie cutter White woman find dreamy. He went to the bars in Dallas where bougie, cookie cutter White women tended to congregate. He never did any non-bar approaching and only dabbled in dating websites/apps.

Since moving in with his girlfriend and later marrying her, he's acted like a real beta male. There have been times where I've asked him to get together and he responded that he needed to "ask his wife if he could get together with me". That's pathetic. Either the guy he used to be was a complete fraud or he's lost his balls while playing house to a skank.
 

Velasco

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Only gonna comment on #1 (don't care about the rest)...

Wouldn't say the 'game' part of it is tough. More the other stuff. Like finding good venues where there are enough hot girls that are open to going home with a stranger. And the you not getting blackout drunk in the process part.
Most men will settle with a girl they met at work or in a social circle.
What if shes hot?
 

Jesse Pinkman

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Good stuff.

1/ Yes, it's very tough. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either leveraging a tonne of money and/or extremely good looks, is banging girls uglier and older than they are, or are flat out lying

2/ yeah, I had similar experiences when I was slightly newer and actually went out with guys who knew all about 'game' and were in the community and talked a good game online. I was expecting to see magic, but what I saw was a bunch of awkward guys. Some making no approaches all night. And some just creeping girls out or just wanting to talking theory about why some new 'technique' they're read about doesn't seem to be working like they read it would in the books. I don't go out with anyone in the community anymore, or at least haven't in years (i'd go out with you if you lived in the same country! :))

it's why I don't believe so many of these claims and stuff from these guys on various forums. ''I've banged 2000 girls'', ''I have point and click abilities and can get any girl I want because of my NLP verbals' etc etc. I actually used to believe this sh1t, but now i'm convinced that they are all just oddball fantasists sitting on their PC making stuff up to assuage their mental health issues

3/ It's awesome when you have a good wing. I've only really experienced a great wing (2 in fact) once, when I went travelling to Budapest. I've written about them before. Two US marines. They were just the most confident, but cool and funny guys you could imagine. Super social and friendly. A social hurricane going through the club, making friends and flirting. If they see me in set they naturally look out for obstacles and help deal with them (friends etc). One night one of them even dealed with the logistics and stuff for me lol. All 3 of us pulled every single night I was with them. If only I had wings like that here. My wingmen are mainly just guys who don't really approach, or just jump in if I eventually manage to hook a set, or it's my super handsome wingman who is a great friend (and helped me get laid wheni was younger in various ways) but it plays havock with my mind and i'm always playing second fiddle to him since his attraction from girls is through the roof. It wasn't unusual for me to be gaming a girl and doing really well, maybe even beginning to make out, and then she notices him as he enters to bar and waves at me to say, 'hi', and from that point, he is ALL she wants. And she actively tries to bang him lol. You don't need that from a wing. Not his fault of course! lol

4/ Probably. Although I actually had some of my biggest successes with game when my life was more screwed up, tbh! unemployed, Was less confident (partly due to the fact I was newer and had laid less girls at that point) and I was back living with my parents (even though it's more common to do that here in the UK since rent prices and general cost of living is INSANE here) it was still less that ideal! Maybe it helped that I'd already had a list of excuses and flat out lies for the girls who did seem to care (I lied about my 'job', my housing situation, and everything else to ensure I got the lay)

5/ Hell yeah. It makes it all worth while. I still get rejected a tonne. I actually think UK culture whereby people don't tend to talk to strangets makes cold approach possibly even tougher, and I have So many approaches still where the girls are looking at me like i'm on fire after I open and stuff, and it of course goes nowhere, but I still manage to get these really pretty girls half my age from time to time, and it makes it all worth while to me, personally. I'll never forget the first time I banged a girl that was WAY out of my league lol. I even filmed the sex in parts because I was kind of aware that it was something akin too a lottery win! haha. Keep fighting the good fight
Wait so you said your two best wings were US Marines you knew in Budapest? I'd love to hear that take because one thing I do agree with @Bigpapa about is the fact that American guys in general do struggle a ton in Europe, it is not until Euro girls come to the US that we do well with them. Interested in hearing more about them but perhaps in another thread.

I do agree with you about the community. In fact, many years ago, I used to sadly be one of those bored guys that occasionally made up some erotica-level posts about him having success but it ruined me more than anything. Come to think of it, I did it because I was quite bored, miserable, and lacked the courage to do daygame and talk to women. I still got mines due to online dating but my game was so awful that I managed to screw up some lay ups. It took a lot of life situations for me to finally wake up and go "WTF are you doing with your life dude". So glad that I did move on from that.

Not sure about the handsome wing part. I have winged with guys that were male models and once a girl was hooked, she kind of passed up the male model friends of mines because we were into each other. Then again, good looks do differ because I have met a lot of women who like a more scruffy looking guy as opposed to a more "pretty" type of a guy.

I also talk about it in my field report thread that I have had the most success with getting laid when I had been unemployed in the past, it is when I went on a crazy run. Not sure about living with my parents though, would not be able to pull that off.

British girls man, they are social as heck abroad but I hear horror stories of them in the UK. Although even abroad, they seem quite irritating to deal with at times.
 

Jesse Pinkman

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When people hear that you are reading The Game and trying to get better at "picking up women," they assume that you are trying to acquire skills to get laid promiscuously, possibly misleading women along the way. This is something that nobody admires.

What people (especially women) fail to realise is that a significant portion of men do not naturally attract and connect with women. Thus, not only do they not have the option of being a casanova if they so chose, they also are very limited in their ability to enter into satisfying romantic relationships with women.

Learning how to relate to and then attract women can have a very positive impact on one's life. The end game (no pun intended) of acquiring pickup skills for most men is not actually wearing outlandish clothes like Mystery and sleeping with hundreds of women. Rather, it's developing the confidence to actually start flirting, attracting, going on dates, and then hopefully having relationships. Maybe it takes months of practice and memorised openers to get there, but in my eyes there's nothing wrong with that.

Put any woman in the position of a 5' 5" male who is socially awkward and immediately she'd realise the importance of game.
Alongside all of that, it helps you develop a newer level of confidence that nothing else really can and it gives you a newfound meaning in life as much as others may hate it. For me, if I had not gotten into daygame, I would be playing golf on weekends and chugging beer with overweight normies I knew back in college. You will be shocked at how many guys peak in college/high school but then go right downhill afterwards. Like literally zero guys I knew that were popular in college made anything of themselves with women after the fact.

Rather, the foundation for learning game IMO is that you have created a repeatable process that can be executed in most major cities you go to. Sure, you'd be smart to do less approaches in a smaller city compared to an NYC or Miami but you have created a method for yourself by which you can easily:

1. Approach/socialize with women.

2. Get them out on dates.

3. Make their bedrooms light up in excitement.

I still kick myself that I didn't daygame as religiously or with the same focus in NYC as I do in Miami. I mean walking down the streets of Soho and East Village to see so many beautiful gorgeous women that were by themselves and open to being approached. IMO, game is really a skill that lays a foundation for building a decent dating life no matter where you end up without ever having to rely on a social circle.

So many of my college friends are having to rely on social circles and desperately force their way into old cliques they vaguely knew for the sake of meeting women. Most of them have become insufferable due to this desperation to be a part of some social clique.
 

Jesse Pinkman

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It's a lot of guys pander. Issue finding wings is that, most aren't mercenaries. They checkout the 1st sec a girl touches their weenie. The purpose is to pick up and pull. The sec most guys get an ounce of success, they bend the knee. They play house to a skank. 1 former wing dropped off after getting a older gf. Stopped approach, no lifting, stopped coming out with the boys. Suddenly starts messaging. Sure enough she dumped him.

A gf doesn't mean become a big ****ing phaggot. It means turning up even harder than before. Not switching off.
I disagree, you are lucky if you find wings that have the ability to do that. Yes, I have found wings that are quite good and I keep them around. However, this is what I have noticed in the majority of wings I have met from the pickup group I am a part of which has made them largely insufferable:
  • Hot and cold towards me in terms of friendships and doing game (will say they want to go out but then act wishy washy when it comes to actually approaching girls), it's that one foot in the door and the other out where they want to see if they can capitalize on your success but not actually wing with you when you are putting in the work (in other words leeches)

  • Will not actually approach, especially not hot girls, and just stand around gossiping about drama in the group itself

  • Will not approach fat girls and hideous looking women because their ego does not want to be crushed by attractive women, this is so irritating to deal with

  • Will come into your good sets with good looking women that are going well despite acting smug and somewhat dismissive towards you throughout the night

  • Somehow, feel entitled to take up your riches and successes because you are all a part of some common group when they themselves have not had a thing to do with it
Most of them do not pull at all but it is their leech-like tendencies that annoy me
 

Jesse Pinkman

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@SW15

I could easily hire a photographer and game the dating apps hard. Most of my lays to date have come from dating apps themselves (Hinge has surprisingly been the most common one followed closely by Bumble). However, if there is one thing I have noticed between my daygame lays versus my dating app lays is that my daygame lays have always led to more fulfilling sex. Whenever I met a girl from a dating app and pulled, I am not sure what it was but I had to really go the extra mile to have some good sex with her. Meanwhile, with daygame, even if the girl is not as conventionally hot, I still get more of a hard on when I get with her.

Most of my success has come from dating apps as quality pics are the biggest game changers out there. I guess I kind of took it all for granted and that may have led to the miserable sex I had from dating apps back when I was getting multiple dates a week off of them. Maybe there is something to be said for the struggle and the obstacle behind getting laid, they create a kind of game which you feel like winning and once you do, the sex feels that much better.

The biggest thing for me with daygame has been the ownership. You can get on the apps and swipe but at the end of the day, you are not having the full say in the kinds of women you do get. With daygame, you can go out and if you see your "type" then you can approach her and make magic potentially happen. It's a low success rate but you get to have more of a say in the kinds of women that enter your life.
 

Bigpapa

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Wait so you said your two best wings were US Marines you knew in Budapest? I'd love to hear that take because one thing I do agree with @Bigpapa about is the fact that American guys in general do struggle a ton in Europe, it is not until Euro girls come to the US that we do well with them. Interested in hearing more about them but perhaps in another thread.
It is not about agreeing or not , it is about how things are

I am In Barcelona now and I did not really see any American men ( except some gays ) . Just hordes of women ( mostly Bellow average ) or with very sh1t style

curious were all the Americans men travel , because for sure not in Europe . Or at least in the western part of Europe :)
 

SW15

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I could easily hire a photographer and game the dating apps hard. Most of my lays to date have come from dating apps themselves (Hinge has surprisingly been the most common one followed closely by Bumble). However, if there is one thing I have noticed between my daygame lays versus my dating app lays is that my daygame lays have always led to more fulfilling sex. Whenever I met a girl from a dating app and pulled, I am not sure what it was but I had to really go the extra mile to have some good sex with her. Meanwhile, with daygame, even if the girl is not as conventionally hot, I still get more of a hard on when I get with her.

Most of my success has come from dating apps as quality pics are the biggest game changers out there. I guess I kind of took it all for granted and that may have led to the miserable sex I had from dating apps back when I was getting multiple dates a week off of them. Maybe there is something to be said for the struggle and the obstacle behind getting laid, they create a kind of game which you feel like winning and once you do, the sex feels that much better.
You might be a Thrill of the Hunt guy.

Even if you're not a Thrill of the Hunt guy, there is a good argument to be made that dating using technology is unnatural. Natural order means we're supposed to start mating interactions through some in-person effort. If we're doing things naturally, it's going to be more in line with our biology and that's going to be better for attraction and produce better quality sex.

The biggest thing for me with daygame has been the ownership. You can get on the apps and swipe but at the end of the day, you are not having the full say in the kinds of women you do get. With daygame, you can go out and if you see your "type" then you can approach her and make magic potentially happen. It's a low success rate but you get to have more of a say in the kinds of women that enter your life.
That could be applicable to all in-person approaching, but I think you have a point that it is most applicable to non-bar approaching. You're doing what most men can't do. Most men can't start an interaction in a non-bar venue while sober.
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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I agree that most men settle. However, I'm seeing more and more men settle for whatever woman from a swipe app decided to jump off the carousel for him. Swipe apps are leading to more relationships simply because more people are using them. However, most people are having lousy experiences on them. Fewer relationships are forming through either work or social circles but the ones that do form tend to last a bit longer than things formed the apps.

Beta males with social circles can get a long term girlfriend. Beta males without social circles typically end up dating down in terms of looks from a swipe app.

The grind of game is tough, leading to the next point.
One of the things that get attacked by RP among other circles whereas, they are still getting girls. Used goods but.

The dude I mentioned, mid 20s beta af finds a girl who while cute is pushing 30, off the CC. Young blood goof - they switch off, approach less than before when they practically never did. He stops lifting &&& she is back on the CC again.

Most normies don't realize how tough it is. Most normie males don't do non-bar approaching, so they don't understand that at all. Some normies have done approaching at bars, but even this is declining.

Bar approaching has never been a fun thing for a lot of singles. That's the reason why personal ads in the newspapers existed in the 1970s-1980s, dating websites came along in the 1990s-2000s, and then swipe apps in the 2010s. The newspaper personal ads and early years of the dating websites were super stigmatized though.
I associate it with the abundance of low testosterone, high estrogen, and overall effeminate males. The market is responding to the culture and demographic.

But look at the gurus today? Married or secretly married. A life sentence is 25 years. Many of today's gurus are married longer than that. 25+ years removed. They don't approach but shill rubbish and call out fellas who go ouT & Who got receipts.

I'd associate the gurus in the same category as betas if not worse. 0 skin in the game. I'd argue it adds to the mess we got for SMP.


Millennials were never too big on bar approaching, at least compared to Boomers in the 1970s-1980s and Gen X'ers in the 1990s to mid-2000s. When the Boomers and Gen X'ers were in their 20s and 30s, they didn't have much of an alternative if they didn't have a social circle. Even the oldest Millennials (1981/82-1985) came of age in the 2000s just as online dating websites were become de-stigmatized and then swipe apps came along.

Most normie males that had to rely on dating websites or dating apps at some point in the last 10-15 years will understand to an extent how tough the game is. These guys who were on the websites and apps didn't have the stomach to handle the toughness of in-person approaching.
It's lazy. Estrogen. Low T.

Another genre of that is the social circle con. You hear those geeks pandering to women and use buzz words.

This applies to 2 friends I've made since moving to my current city.

The first one is in his mid-30s and married his college era girlfriend. I met him in 2011 as a recent college grad guy with a recent college grad girlfriend. In 2011, his girlfriend was above average looking. She was in the upper echeleon of the cute range. I called her a 7 then. Her looks were already starting to deteriorate by 2015, when they started living together. Living together led to getting a dog, then a marriage proposal, then a wedding, then a house in the suburbs, and then pregnancy and kids. Would you want all that with an asset that was deteriorating? That does sound to me like a guy who checked out when a cute girl touched his weenie. He was considering breaking up with her in 2013, but couldn't then because he still wanted to ride out her peak. In my opinion, he stayed around too long. I think he partially stayed around out of the fear that he could not replicate what he did in 2010 with getting an upper echeleon cute range girl to touch his weenie.

Another male friend read some of the 2000s era classic books of pickup. Ended up meeting a girl through social circle in 2013. She has big, natural tits, isn't fat, but she's a complete dullard with zero personality. I know personality doesn't matter that much but she can't even meet a low threshold of it. The guy has stayed with her for 9 years, moved in with her many years ago, and just put a ring on it this year. Once again, this sounds like a guy who checked out once a girl touched his weenie. He never applied much of the lessons from the pickup books of the 2000s he read.
They aren't bad people but they are soft. The guy I mentioned started bragging about pulling other girls and got caught blatantly lying. Caught red handed with the boys talking ****. Stop lifting. Switch off. She's back on the CC.

This applies to the most successful of my local area friends in attraction-seduction. He has a triple digit notch count. This is a 6'4" White male who was an NCAA athlete in a country club sport and has had solid white collar employment.

He was regimented about his pickup efforts. He would get semi-intoxicated his apartment, roll to the bars and arrive around 11:30 PM-12 PM. From that point, he would spam approach everything with a rather weak pickup line, and then roll out around 1:30 AM-2 AM (2 AM is closing time) with whatever woman was most into him that night. He was only able to get away with this due to being 6'4" and having a look that bougie, cookie cutter White woman find dreamy. He went to the bars in Dallas where bougie, cookie cutter White women tended to congregate. He never did any non-bar approaching and only dabbled in dating websites/apps.

Since moving in with his girlfriend and later marrying her, he's acted like a real beta male. There have been times where I've asked him to get together and he responded that he needed to "ask his wife if he could get together with me". That's pathetic. Either the guy he used to be was a complete fraud or he's lost his balls while playing house to a skank.
I've been learning nonstop over the years. The best lesson we can learn are from other morons.

The path forward isn't easy. The majority of men were captain beta. Most guys aren't getting girls so they trade in bachelor life for whatever low hanging fruit.

It's worse. Men are the leaders of the household. Modern men are switched off and checked out.
 

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DEEZEDBRAH

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I disagree, you are lucky if you find wings that have the ability to do that. Yes, I have found wings that are quite good and I keep them around. However, this is what I have noticed in the majority of wings I have met from the pickup group I am a part of which has made them largely insufferable:
  • Hot and cold towards me in terms of friendships and doing game (will say they want to go out but then act wishy washy when it comes to actually approaching girls), it's that one foot in the door and the other out where they want to see if they can capitalize on your success but not actually wing with you when you are putting in the work (in other words leeches)

  • Will not actually approach, especially not hot girls, and just stand around gossiping about drama in the group itself

  • Will not approach fat girls and hideous looking women because their ego does not want to be crushed by attractive women, this is so irritating to deal with

  • Will come into your good sets with good looking women that are going well despite acting smug and somewhat dismissive towards you throughout the night

  • Somehow, feel entitled to take up your riches and successes because you are all a part of some common group when they themselves have not had a thing to do with it
Most of them do not pull at all but it is their leech-like tendencies that annoy me
Befriend naturals.
 

SW15

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But look at the gurus today? Married or secretly married. A life sentence is 25 years. Many of today's gurus are married longer than that. 25+ years removed. They don't approach but shill rubbish and call out fellas who go ouT & Who got receipts.

I'd associate the gurus in the same category as betas if not worse. 0 skin in the game.
Which gurus besides Rollo Tomassi have a 25+ year marriage to their names? Rollo hit 25 years married in 2021. Besides, years of marriage is a less meaningful metric than total relationship time. Some people are in a relationship with a woman 5+ years before marriage.

I associate it with the abundance of low testosterone, high estrogen, and overall effeminate males. The market is responding to the culture and demographic.
Accurate

Another genre of that is the social circle con. You hear those geeks pandering to women and use buzz words.
Social circle introductions are useful in getting a girlfriend but social circles tend to get pissed off if you trade in girlfriends every 1-4 years. Guys who get social circle introductions to girlfriends often play blue pill, beta male game and put a ring on it. Most aren't out doing approaches. Guys without social circles are swiping and texting on the apps and trying to slide into DMs.

The majority of men were captain beta. Most guys aren't getting girls so they trade in bachelor life for whatever low hanging fruit.
I agree. A lot of guys figure that even a mediocre relationship beats long sexual droughts of 6 months, 12 months, or even longer. I told stories of guys checking out of the game once they got a woman to touch their penis for an extended period.

They aren't bad people but they are soft. The guy I mentioned started bragging about pulling other girls and got caught blatantly lying. Caught red handed with the boys talking ****. Stop lifting. Switch off. She's back on the CC.
I agree when you say my friends aren't bad people but they are soft. One stayed too long with a depreciating asset. Another put on a ring on some used up bar girl after posting a triple digit notch count. Another settled for a woman who kept touching his penis despite reading pickup manuals.
 

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In 2022, I made an investment to take game seriously by going out every weekend and talking to women (occasionally weekdays too). I have managed to get numbers, dates, and lays but also come away with some lessons. Before this, I relied on dating apps and a lot of drinking + drunk approaches at night to get laid. Here are five lessons I have learned so far.

First, I want to thank @SW15, @Jake_Gyllenhaal69, @BillyPilgrim, and many of you on here (do not mean to forget too many names here) for helping me in my journey! Here are the lessons:

1. This crap is tough.

I sat down and watched some College Football today after spending hours yesterday night and even today just walking around and running game. Let me make one thing clear here, this thing is freaking hard. I used to hate the guys that LTR quick in their 20s and spend their weekends golfing and chugging beer over some sports. Occasionally, I think about it too. I think about just spending a weekend where all I do is watch sports, drink some beer, and do anything but talk to women. The rejections, awkwardness, and all of that adds up and it really tests you as a guy. However, it comes and goes in waves.

All it takes is one good weekend where you rack up numbers like crazy and have a number of dates to understand why you do this.

2. Most wingmen, and men in general, are completely worthless and useless when it comes to game.

Let me make one point clear here, most men, even those into pickup and game, rarely approach!

Good wingmen exist but they are very rare as @SW15 will tell you. Most men do not approach women and of the ones that do, most of them are seriously awful. All too often, I have seen dudes approach fat chicks in place of hot ones because they didn't want to get their egos crushed. I used to be in a Pickup Group when I first got to my city and I was amazed at just how awful most guys who actually read the pickup crap are.

I even had nights where the guys in the group were too busy gossiping about the group rather than doing game. It got so bad to where I decided to do solo nightgame. Then come to find that the same guys who would not do an approach that whole night would try to either barge into my sets that were going well or ask me for favors despite not doing a thing for me.

Let me put it this way, if you meet a wing that does the following, consider yourself lucky:
  • Goes out to game with you
  • Actually approaches
  • Talks to girls that actually look good
3. Most men into pickup are seriously unaware of how toxic, cringe, and useless they are.

Sticking to this one point about men, it has truly amazed me as to how much dudes lack self-awareness about this. I had one wing from the group a few months ago who promised to meet up with me but was late. Then, come to find, he didn't even do much of an approach when we met up. We agree to meet up again a week later at a bar and he was there with two of his guy friends that knew him from high school. The whole time, even though he asked me to meet up, he acted real dismissive towards me while his high school friends were being smug.

I ignore him and do some approaches that mostly go bad. However, I hook one set and am close to taking them elsewhere. Soon, wing and his friends jump in on the set and start talking to them which they found weird. Issue is, they knew me and somehow that led to the whole set being ruined. Things get really weird here because a few weeks later, wing sees me out at an exclusive place and is DMing me left and right to get him in.

For this reason, I am picky about who I wing with.

Way too many men act clingy and desperate around OTHER MEN which makes it pretty clear around why they struggle with women and dating. If I am noticing these traits in these dudes, I cannot imagine how women will feel about them.

4. Your life situation will always pore over into game, fix your life first before going full on in game.

Toxic work?

Family issues?

Confidence issues?

Health issues?

All of that will come out into game if you are doing it right. Too many guys get into game without having their lives handled first, something I agree on with @Fruitbat whenever we have chatted. I faced a crushing and draining work situation like @LARaiders85 had and it impacted my energy for game. I had to practically quit my job because of how beaten I was emotionally, mentally, and even spiritually. Thankfully, things are now looking great for me and I should recover really well but when I had the toxic work I had, I was not myself and easily irritated when it came to game.

Whatever crap you are going through in life, game will unveil it. Sh-tests by women will uncover and peel that onion. Get your life handled first or put yourself in a place where it does not emotionally crush you if you want to do well in game.

5. In the end, nothing beats that feeling of success in game that very few men will experience.

The feeling of walking down the street and chatting up a hot girl as jealous dudes who don't have the balls to do that look around. They want you to get rejected and fail but you get that number. Number turns into a date. Dates sometimes turn into lays.

I have played on a football team before in high school that won a lot of games and I have achieved a lot of cool stuff in life. However, none of that rivals the feeling of pulling through. Nothing rivals that feeling of going through rejection after rejection but then one hot girl finally gives you the time of the day and you two are going on a date a day or two later.

Very few men will experience this.

Most men will play golf on weekends as they chug beer over a football game. Most men will settle with a girl they met at work or in a social circle. Most men will get into an LTR and marry fast. Very few men will go through the grind of the game.

In a way, the game tests you and it breaks most men. It breaks you in a unique way that tests even the toughest guys out there. When you do pull through and have some successes, nothing feels better.

I got ways to go, I have been in a slump as of late, and I have been tested like nothing else. However, your guy is not giving up!
You should have your own YouTube channel
 

DEEZEDBRAH

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Which gurus besides Rollo Tomassi have a 25+ year marriage to their names? Rollo hit 25 years married in 2021. Besides, years of marriage is a less meaningful metric than total relationship time. Some people are in a relationship with a woman 5+ years before marriage.
My point is not him or any one particular guru.

A lot are playing house. Are married or secretly married. Are shilling rubbish. At gunpoint majority wouldn't approach.

My point is that, the gurus of today are almost blatantly dunking on their audience. It's even more pathetic they got less body of work going out than the gurus.

Outside of Troy, I don't think majority go out or go experience in the Era of Ig.

The youth today got practically 0 gurus with expertise despite a sea of charlatans. I'd argue the black pill is a by product of the following combined with the current smp. Below 5 thinks she's a 10.

I'd lump in diet, lifestyle, fitness, aesthetics in with inner game.



Social circle introductions are useful in getting a girlfriend but social circles tend to get pissed off if you trade in girlfriends every 1-4 years. Guys who get social circle introductions to girlfriends often play blue pill, beta male game and put a ring on it. Most aren't out doing approaches. Guys without social circles are swiping and texting on the apps and trying to slide into DMs.
Social circles are great. It's what past generations did.

I was in reference to social circle guru charlatans. They don't shoot their shot. There's fellas here who got better game like you and others but aren't shilling it.

I think social circle of your own like dating apps are supplementary but not optimal nor something to be reliant on. A bonus rather than main course.

Without social circles is more prevalent the past few years and counting.

I agree. A lot of guys figure that even a mediocre relationship beats long sexual droughts of 6 months, 12 months, or even longer. I told stories of guys checking out of the game once they got a woman to touch their penis for an extended period.
It's where the village bicycle gets married by some beta garbage man. It's one thing of importance to be cognizant of female nature and knowing game and The GAME.


I agree when you say my friends aren't bad people but they are soft. One stayed too long with a depreciating asset. Another put on a ring on some used up bar girl after posting a triple digit notch count. Another settled for a woman who kept touching his penis despite reading pickup manuals.
If the dude wasn't dumped and cucked he would have been the knee to 30 something year old much his senior.

By their very nature, these men are on the outs. Either will play house to the next jump off or go full retard in 1 or a number of ways.

They are a lost cause. When blue pill, when plugged in, I attempted to demo what was up. Even toss a life preserver should a buddy take. I no longer bother.

The reality is while a significant amount of time is spent pursuing, your a lone wolf. It's the name of the game. Everyone is on their own path and sadly most are following the followers playing house and bending the knee to whatever skank.
 

SW15

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most are following the followers playing house and bending the knee to whatever skank.
This is true. Some other disturbing trend I've seen in my social spheres of normies is men playing house to slightly older women. These men are getting with women 6 months - 3 years older than them. These women aren't exactly cougars but it's not a good look when the woman is older. Men value younger women.
 
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