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Fear of Rejection? Understand what you are actually afraid of

Atom Smasher

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Hey Atom,

Respect for that post.

On similar lines, I'm very direct in my communications. If they choose to follow, great if not, then so be it.
Recently, I was visiting my best friend and his female cousins said I was too blunt. I didn't see it as that since they were engaging with me and giggling. I was probably AMOG (lol, I hate that term but can't think of anything else) carrying conversations with everyone.
What's your take on being direct/blunt? Is it something you master along the way without offending people or something you own up to?
Women speak and communicate covertly. It’s best to deal with women on that level. They understand subtle messages.
I would say it’s advantageous to be direct, but disadvantageous to be blunt. Bluntness sometimes causes collateral damage, while directness is more of a precision tool.
Women respond appropriately to directness but sometimes completely shut down when faced with bluntness. Bluntness usually carries a clumsy, mis-calibrated stigma.
It’s all nuance like most skills in life. I think it’s a good idea to practice direct communication but mix it up with hints and playfulness. If you find yourself about to be overly blunt, change it up to a hint or a round-about way to express it, then follow it up with body language. Women understand covert communication.
 

Chowdah

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Women speak and communicate covertly. It’s best to deal with women on that level. They understand subtle messages.
I would say it’s advantageous to be direct, but disadvantageous to be blunt. Bluntness sometimes causes collateral damage, while directness is more of a precision tool.
Women respond appropriately to directness but sometimes completely shut down when faced with bluntness. Bluntness usually carries a clumsy, mis-calibrated stigma.
It’s all nuance like most skills in life. I think it’s a good idea to practice direct communication but mix it up with hints and playfulness. If you find yourself about to be overly blunt, change it up to a hint or a round-about way to express it, then follow it up with body language. Women understand covert communication.
Great insight, this is something I need to work on. Much appreciated
 

DonJuanjr

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That's not how it works, mate. Having AA/low self-esteem/lack of experience, or whatever else isn't usually about ego. Confidence comes from positive reinforcement, success, and/or goodwill....ofc you're going to be afraid of rejection if you're not already getting any of that. Just getting rejected isn't going to somehow soften the blow, unless you're getting success.
I realize I didn't respond to this. Got side tracked with barrister haha...

It is how it works. You just haven't gone through it enough. I'm telling you, after a while, rejections will get easier and easier. It took about 40, before it got to the point of, "Oh, well. Maybe the next one." Don't get me wrong, if you stop for an extended period of time, it slightly comes back, but after one or two, its back to that level of not affecting.
 

SW15

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It is how it works. You just haven't gone through it enough. I'm telling you, after a while, rejections will get easier and easier.
I've never experienced this and I've been in the game 20+ years. I don't like rejections. I am insulted when 4.5s and 5.5s reject me as a 7. That has happened.

It’s difficult to approach a totally random woman in an environment where you have no reason to interact with her and on top of this get her to like you in a very short span of time.
I can attest to this. I’ve done approaches in bars and a variety of non-bar venues.

Something else to consider is that many women feel uncomfortable when random men approach them and will auto reject.
This has happened to me. I’m sure of it. Most of the time, it takes on the form of a conversation that fizzles out in 30-60 seconds. The interaction itself isn’t unpleasant but it takes up some effort to strike up the conversation. You’d want results for the effort.

Since about 2015, I've had many instances where women could not process the fact that I was approaching them. One of the more drastic instances of this occurred on a walking path where I made a comment about the tourist destination on a woman's t-shirt and tried to make conversation around that. She started walking faster when I did that and acted like I was a homeless man asking her for money. That was socially inept. She wasn't the only one to do that. In the 2015-19 era (pre-pandemic), I did many grocery store approaches where the woman didn't understand a man approaching them and making conversation in that setting. It seemed like a such a foreign concept to them and it was uncomfortable for them. It is understandable why they might act that way, as daygame (non-bar approaching) has always been a niche activity, even from 1985-2005 before technology facilitated meetings became commonplace.

The older I get the more I realize it's truly about just being at the right time and the right place with the right woman......luck. You could be tall, fit, handsome and have a lot going for you but yet have very little opportunity to meet women, this could be due to a variety of reasons. You could even force yourself to go out and interact with the opposite sex and yet none of them are single. The only real thing you have control over is what you bring to the table and how you present yourself to women, that's it. You really don't have any control over whether or not she finds you attractive, she either does or doesn't.

It also doesn't help when the overall dating market today is heavily warped, there's a reason why there are so many frustrated men and it has nothing to do with "game" or there being something wrong with them.
With a lot of those interactions that fizzle out in 30-60 seconds in a non-unpleasant way (the majority of my approaches), I'd like to think that the majority of those approaches were on women who weren't in the market for new penis. They never indicate why they give off such indictors of disinterest in these approaches, the majority of which are non-bar approaches. In non-bar approaching, it's only natural to run into more people who are attached in some way. There's no point in going to a bar if you are attached.

I've also done non-bar approaching at times where I thought the woman wasn't in a relationship based on the context. For instance, if you're a woman at the gym at 7:30 AM on a weekend morning, I would think that you're not in a relationship. If you were, why would you be in the gym? You'd be in bed with your romantic partner still.
 
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momentomori

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Yes. I've done over 2000 approaches and rejections suck. You don't get used to it. People who say you do are full of it. When I first got started the rejections actually didn't bother me at all. Approaching was exhilarating. But after you get rejection after rejection and you realize the low probability of success from cold-approach every rejection feels like a knife in the gut. I know a guy who went crazy and became a Jesus freak because his mental health deteriorated from constant rejections from cold-approach.

I wish people would be honest about how low ROI cold-approach is. It's not an endeavor worth pursuing. Please do other stuff with your time. Even OLD is better than cold-approach.
 

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momentomori

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Since about 2015, I've had many instances where women could not process the fact that I was approaching them. One of the more drastic instances of this occurred on a walking path where I made a comment about the tourist destination on a woman's t-shirt and tried to make conversation around that. She started walking faster when I did that and acted like I was a homeless man asking her for money. That was socially inept. She wasn't the only one to do that. In the 2015-19 era (pre-pandemic), I did many grocery store approaches where the woman didn't understand a man approaching them and making conversation in that setting. It seemed like a such a foreign concept to them and it was uncomfortable for them. It is understandable why they might act that way, as daygame (non-bar approaching) has always been a niche activity, even from 1985-2005 before technology facilitated meetings became commonplace.
Omg. What you described is such standard female behavior during the cold-approach. I've received the "speed walk away without saying anything and pretending to act like she didn't hear me" reaction countless times. It's almost laughable that I continued cold-approaching for so long, despite receiving clear reactions from women that this just doesn't work. People who have actually spent any time cold-approaching are very familiar with this reaction.
 

SW15

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I wish people would be honest about how low ROI cold-approach is. It's not an endeavor worth pursuing. Even OLD is better than cold-approach.
It's easy to perceive that because the rejections on the swipe apps aren't in real time. I can identify with the feeling of going out for 2 hours to a walking path and being mostly ignored before even speaking. I can identify with going out to a bar and not getting anywhere. When these sorts of days or nights happen, it's normal to think that it'd be better to sit at home in your underwear and swipe. That's the illusion of efficiency.

The ROI on cold approaching isn't all that great. I wouldn't make the blanket statement that "it's not an endeavor worth pursuing" but I would agree that for a lot of men, the experience can feel that way.

I know a guy who went crazy and became a Jesus freak because his mental health deteriorated from constant rejections from cold-approach.
I'm not surprised. Enough cold approaching will result in a lot of rejections. The hope is that the quantities and specific instances of the rejections won't cause psychological damage. I have endured psychological damage from my cold approach rejections.

I've done over 2000 approaches and rejections suck. You don't get used to it. People who say you do are full of it. When I first got started the rejections actually didn't bother me at all. Approaching was exhilarating. But after you get rejection after rejection and you realize the low probability of success from cold-approach every rejection feels like a knife in the gut.
Agree. I also think my lifetime number of approaches is in the 1,000 - 2,500 range if I had to estimate.

Omg. What you described is such standard female behavior during the cold-approach. I've received the "speed walk away without saying anything and pretending to act like she didn't hear me" reaction countless times. It's almost laughable that I continued cold-approaching for so long, despite receiving clear reactions from women that this just doesn't work. People who have actually spent any time cold-approaching are very familiar with this reaction.
It's good to see another man have similar reactions, especially one who has had his photos rate so well on Photofeeler.
 

DonJuanjr

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I'd like to think that the majority of those approaches were on women who weren't in the market for new penis. They never indicate why they give off such indictors of disinterest in these approaches, the majority of which are non-bar approaches. In non-bar approaching, it's only natural to run into more people who are attached in some way.
Then why are you insulted when the 4.5s and 5.5s reject you? They may not have been in the market for new penis...
 

BillyPilgrim

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I hate to sound ignorant @SW15, but isn't there an innate problem with cold-approaching on walking paths in that the targets are moving in a purposeful manner?
 
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BackInTheGame78

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I hate to sound ignorant @SW15, but isn't there an innate problem with cold-approaching on walking paths in that the targets are moving in a purposeful manner?
I'd suggest the reason why so many get blown out on cold approaches immediately and have almost no success is because they do it in a way that comes off as creepy and socially inept, as if they don't understand how to initiate a conversation with someone properly and make it blatantly obvious they are trying to pick them up.

Social tact is a thing.
 

BillyPilgrim

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I'd suggest the reason why so many get blown out on cold approaches immediately and have almost no success is because they do it in a way that comes off as creepy and socially inept, as if they don't understand how to initiate a conversation with someone properly and make it blatantly obvious they are trying to pick them up.

Social tact is a thing.
A walking path just seems like bad logistics for approaching, I'd think you'd want a relatively stationary target. And these women are moving in one direction, not back and forth.
 

SW15

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I hate to sound ignorant @SW15, but isn't there an innate problem with cold-approaching on walking paths in that the targets are moving in a purposeful manner?
Every walking path or hiking path has natural stopping points where approaches can be done on stationary targets. Think of them as the equivalent of "rest areas" on highways.

Hiking paths also have the summit where approaches can be done, the base of the trail/parking lot, and those natural "rest areas" I mentioned.

However, a lot of daytime approachers do path approaches like this....


Look at the approaches between 14:35-18:35. Low percentage approaches. I don't do approaches in that style. Some approachers do. If you choose not to do approaches that way, it's more difficult to capture attention on paths. I choose that video because I have done approaches on that path. That's the walking path in Dallas with the most foot traffic of women 21-35.

A walking path just seems like bad logistics for approaching, I'd think you'd want a relatively stationary target. And these women are moving in one direction, not back and forth.
In almost any form of non-bar approaching, stationary targets are difficult to encounter. At a park, you might find someone relatively stationary meandering around. At a bookstore, someone might be slowly in a section, but it's difficult to find Millennial women in a bookstore (I am a early Millennial). Women in grocery stores and malls are also moving. You do have to do stops on people.

Then why are you insulted when the 4.5s and 5.5s reject you? They may not have been in the market for new penis...
I had 2 specific women in mind who were definitely single and definitely in the market for new penis when I wrote that.
 
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eli77

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I had trouble with public speaking in high school this form and a lot of books help me do that rejection part of the game most people don't understand that especially the guys who marry the first piece of you know what out of high school,
 

thelambofdeth

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I realize I didn't respond to this. Got side tracked with barrister haha...

It is how it works. You just haven't gone through it enough. I'm telling you, after a while, rejections will get easier and easier. It took about 40, before it got to the point of, "Oh, well. Maybe the next one." Don't get me wrong, if you stop for an extended period of time, it slightly comes back, but after one or two, its back to that level of not affecting.
I'm sure it gets easier if you're accruing success in the interim of approaching....which is highly unlikely. And due to the low probability if you keep approaching before you get any success, well continuing seems moot.
 
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