Ex-PUA reveals...

[expua]

I used to regularly contribute to this board, sharing advice and strategies with everyone. I won't reveal the nickname I used for many reasons. I have now grown older and wiser as a result of being a member of this board. I bought all the books - starting with the BHSC, then DYD, then plenty of other ebooks and so on. Today I am a therapist, and counsel people going through relationship problems and other things in that nature - like divorces.

I was an expert PUA for a span of over 5 years. My intention in the beginning was to find the girl of my dreams especially since I was always badly rejected in high school. So after I broke my virginity and tasted sex I was hooked. I wanted to have sex as much as possible with as many women as possible. What I didn't realize was how much it damaged my personality, my career as a businessman, my relationship with my family, and soon I discovered I had what most Pick Up Artists get - a bipolar personality disorder. Super happy for several months (usually during the start of a relationship) and then super depressed (awaiting the next HB10 who's even hotter than the last one). I also wasted thousands of dollars on seminars that promised me a better life with beautiful women...

If there's one thing I've learned during being a DJ, is how screwed up and spoiled american women are. Foreign women like Brazilian or Russian, are so much more faithful and work hard to please their man. In fact, in Brazil the women are the hunters. In America, you're pretty much treated like an object, like a toy that pleases them for a short time. In other words, the more you are a jerk, the more thrills they get from you. With American universities producing a factory of feminists, and commitment phobes, most women in this country aren't even marriageable, so naturally it makes sense to become a DJ, since sex is all these women have to offer you anyway. Once you marry them, they use sex to manipulate you so you can work your a$$ off to buy them lots of material gifts. If you've been DJing for awhile now, you're 100% likely to marry someone based on how good they are in bed, so don't be surprised to find yourself losing everything you've earned in your life in divorce court! Also, people who practise sex, are some of the most unhappy people I have ever met in my life. My clients are like mirrors of what I used to go through.

Think about it, why do we have to change who we are, in order to offer a few cheap thrills to damaged women, who use sex to manipulate us? We have to give up our religion, beliefs, and platonic relationships, in order to please a few selfish chicks. If you think that it's all fun right now and one day when you grow older you'll eventually settle and find the beautiful woman of your dreams that you can sc*rew all night long and live happily ever after, I'm here to tell you you're way off! In fact if that's sounds doable, then you're better off getting addicted to cocaine. ANY relationship that has premarital sex has a short shelf-life. I haven't met any relationship which started with premarital sex, with both partners happy in their marriage and who weren't divorced. However, I have met MANY with AIDS, herpes, and those that don't make a living selling seminars and books on how to get laid, usually end up as janitors or in jail.

I'm prepared to get flamed here or even banned by people scared of the truth, but it's quite ironic how everyone is always arguing over these boards, yet the ebooks specifically teach not to argue at all, because it demonsrates insecurity. I won't argue with anyone who disputes this message, because I don't have any time or energy to waste. I currently have a thriving business and have gone through a long and painful sex-addiction therapy that healed my 'screwed-up' brain from years of DJing. I have to tell you it was an INCREDIBLY painful period. My hope is that God will forgive me my evil ways and lead me to a quality woman.

Oh, and what about all those courses that teach you how to get laid and say they will improve your life?! Well, I used to think that anyone who said they could improve my life would be wonderful, helping people, right? When I met personally some of the authors of these courses, I quickly realized that these weren't quality people at all - they were simply expert salesman, feeding off of your weaknesses. I'd feel better going to my local prison and making friends there instead. Mystery Method teaches you to lie about your age - guys like Bishop, I understand, have even been in jail. And if Ross Jeffries were to say the F word as part of some lame joke in front of my face, I'd smack him right there

I suggest that at this point you identify what you really want. Do you want to live in the moment with as much thrills as you can, and die when you're thirty (I don't mean physically) or do you want a quality life and be happy for the rest of your life? The famous billionaire J.P. Getty, once said "I'd give away all my millions, for just one quality marriage."

I promise you that by becoming a PUA, you are only 'artificially' improving your life. In fact, anyone who knows that you're screwing a ton of women, will immediately place you as the lowest member of society. If you look at the grading system - BAFC, GAFC, AFC, then the pope would be WBAFC - way too much of a nice-guy!

Play with the flames of passion, and you WILL get burned - it's logical.

Bob F
robertflavio@hotmail.com

 

[rgeere]

You're absolutly right ...

In terms of religion, this website is sort of like how the israelites went backwards and instead of internalizing the principles [ten commandments] that were given to them they slipped backwards and began to subjugate themselves to the law and eventually expanding it to about 600 or so subparticals of the law.

When Jesus came, it sickened him that the people were slipping backwards and subjugating them to the law when they should have internalized the principles and lived it. This is why he says that there are only two parts of the law and rebuked the means by which the people were being subjugated. Matthew chapter 5 is some of the most motivation material I have ever read, and it is a shame that people cloud the meaning by reading so much crap into it.

Well, you probably get the picture. You can learn the tools of the trade, but the real power to live life to the fullest and attract women lies in what's inside of a man and the purity of his heart.

 

[MrCode]

Interesting post, and I won't argue with it, in fact I will say I agree with you, but only in a very specific context. The context is of being a man who has low self-esteem who uses techniques and seduction to become a PUA, and then uses his success in that arena to build up his self-esteem. In that regard you will get the kind of life you described.

Now maybe a lot of guys on this site equate being a PUA to being a Don Juan, but I think they are completely different. A PUA seduces women. A Don Juan attracts and romances them. Seduction and attraction are different. A PUA only feels good when he has scored with a really hot babe. A Don Juan is happy in his life, and women only add to his happiness. A Don Juan can also see beauty in many women, not just those that meet some popular media image of physical beauty. A Don Juan is indifferent if a woman flakes out. A PUA will lose self-esteem if a girl flakes out. A PUA can only connect with women through sex, and even then the connection is weak. A Don Juan can make a deep mental, emotional and physical connection with a woman that is satisfying in many aspects, not just the physical.

So while I agree that the goal of being a PUA and screwing tons of chics just to screw is not a worthwhile goal, I think becoming a Don Juan is worthwhile.

Because as bad as being the kind of PUA I described above is, being an AFC is way worse. And if you want to tell me that all your therapy clients are former PUAs and that all the AFCs are happy, I'm going to have to call bullsh*t!

 

[rgeere]

Originally posted by MrCode
So while I agree that the goal of being a PUA and screwing tons of chics just to screw is not a worthwhile goal, I think becoming a Don Juan is worthwhile.

Also, pick-up artist are sort of AFC when you think in the terms that they are placing the persuit of woman at a high place in their life and making a serious game out of it.

Note, that a real DJ knows that he doesn't even need a woman to enjoy life and feel fulfilled. He's happy with his life and if he find a nice woman to spend time with him and give him love that's good, if not that's also good.

Yes, you can pick-up women by using a manipulative fake-it-to-make-it approach. But in the end all you may have gained are a few memories of naked women and some sort of disease; doesn't sound like happy times to me.

 

[expua]

It's great to see some intelligent responses on this post. I really like your distinction between PUA and being a Don Juan. I firmly believe we all have to work on improving ourselves hence the shelves full of self-improvement books. There's a great quote by Eric Hoffer: “In times of change, learners inherit the earth, while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists.”

However, I find that this forum and all the books it recommends, has more to do with how to get laid rather than how to build a long-lasting quality relationship.

Here's a great post I found by someone from americanwomansuck.com that further identifies the problem...

(taken from http://www.americanwomensuck.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=598)

No offense, but I've read a few "Doc Love" articles on Askmen (a male feminist website if there ever was one...) and I've heard of DeAngelo on the net. In my opinion, you just wasted $100. Doc Love and DeAngelo basically teach you how to be some Don Juan player guy and how to manipulate slutty Ameriskanks into a relationship. My question is:

Why?

Why would I play some shallow "game" and act like someone I'm not just to attract women I don't want? If I have to be anything other than who I am in order to make myself attractive to a bunch of spiritually bankrupt and physically used "princesses", I don't want it. Do their "systems" and their "techniques" work? Yup - especially on modern, feminist, "Sex in the City", "Girls-Gone-Wild", party-slut wannnabes. These guys teach you how to play a womans natural shallowness and emotional weakness to your advantage. But why would I want to be with a shallow and emotionally weak woman that is so dimwitted as to be impressed and manipulated by that mess? If she's that weak, vain, shallow, and spiritually/morally blind, I don't want her! EVER!!!! Unfortunately, that encomp$#@es the majority of Godless, Feminized Western women.

Ultimately, I see the players who practice these "techniques" as less than real men. No matter how smooth or suave or charming or "successful" (if you call having a relationship with an Ameri-slut successful) they are, in the end, they are still FOLLOWING women. They're still trying to change who they are in an effort to please vapid, emotionally unstable, selfish women. No matter how "confident" these players think they are, in the end, they are still at the mercy of the "Golden Vagina".

It's pathetic when you think about it and something I refuse to do. I would rather keep some sense of self-respect and dignity than treat some broken, spiritually dead slut as god just to taste the poontang.

I am who I am and if women don't like it, too bad. I am a "Nice Guy" and always will be, regardless of what women think, say, or do. I am nice because of my faith and because it's ingrained in who I am. If my efforts at trying to be a strong, honorable, moral, comp$#@ionate, patient, considerate, wise, responsible and peaceful man aren't "exciting" or "bad boy" enough for women, they can kiss my arse. My dignity and my honor before God are more important than any woman.

I am a MAN! I do not exist to serve and amuse women! EVER!!!

TQR


Sad but true,

Bob F

 

[rgeere]

This is actually a great a great attitude you are displaying. Very suave and very DJ.

I really can't say much against it, except that maybe you are seeing the thorns more than the roses.

Maybe if shome of these 'so called' players would take the time to rediscover themselves like most of us have here we could get a clearer view of the roses.

 

[Azalin]

I have no argument against this post. I would rather be myself and be disliked, than be a liar and adored.

I will tell you people that I have already had a four year marriage that went south and that was over a year ago and I am still messed up over it.

My ex wife probably seen potential in me and that is why she married me. Unfortunately she also ripped the potential right out of me. It is hard to wake up one day and find you have wasted four years of your life.

All of a sudden you have no idea who you are or what you are doing. Worst part is I am still in the same hole that was dug over a year ago.

The games we play are truthfully nothing more than games when you get down to it. It is not like I have great relationship advice to give or anything, on the other hand, I can also vouch of what not to do.

 

[chicksrock]

Dear Bob F,

Thankyou for sharing your experiences. I really appreciate your post, for you have warned us of the real dangers of using the knowledge on this board the wrong way.

I will always remember this in the back of my mind, and make sure my mini PU life would take a wrong turn, and I won't fall victim to temptations.

Good luck in your search for happiness...

 

[MetalFortress]

Excellent post. Rather than go the PUA route, I simply picked and chose certain tidbits and used this board to become the man my dad was supposed to teach me how to be. I've since started giving advice here myself, as well as found a great girl, dare I say one of the few marriageable American chicks (she is homeschooled and comes from a very conservative Baptist family - her dad is a pastor). She is a very good girl who shares the same faith as me, and she has a definite wild girl side that she can't wait to let out in full force starting on her wedding night.

It's funny when traditional wifely qualities are looked down upon as "you just want a woman you can control". When she's talkin' about forcing me to let her clean my room and do my laundry and dishes, are you sure it's just me controlling her?

 

[Squy]

I love this post!

The amount of people, or rather players who are only out to get laid on this site is getting alarming high, and I don't like that. To me this isn't a get laid-only-site!

Back when I joined this site was about rediscovering the man inside you, and then help you to improve yourself regardless of the women, they are just the bonus.

And since when I don't know, the posts are getting less about improving your life, but more and more about getting laid.

But another sidepoint, I would love to see more posts about the situation AFTER you finally got a girlfriend, cause there are almost no posts about it.

 

[chicksrock]

expua

ANY relationship that has premarital sex has a short shelf-life. I haven't met any relationship which started with premarital sex, with both partners happy in their marriage and who weren't divorced.

This coming from an expua/DJ really does mean a lot.

 

[Dirtheart]

quickly realized that these weren't quality people at all - they were simply expert salesman, feeding off of your weaknesses.

I haven't met these people, but I've realised the very same thing. In fact, I think this post is excellent and even though I've never claimed to be a PUA, I've found some very negative traits arise in myself too.

One thing I noticed not so long ago is how I'd sacrificed my natural charisma, humour and rapport-building skills in favour of this formulaic pick-up sh!t.

Charisma depends on making people feel good about themselves, yet based on what I'd read, instead of charming women with a subtle compliment or word of encouragement, I started to fear feeding their egos and refused to say anything flattering. Then instead of going with my natural dry sense of humour (which most people love), I started thinking c+f all the time. And instead of holding conversations and getting to know women as individuals, I was too busy trying to create sexual states, say the "right" thing and steer clear of the "wrong" thing.

David d'Angelo is for real tho, I trust that guy

Do so at your own risk! I thought exactly the same way when I was most jaded and needed this advice most, but see the aforementioned paragraphs for what it did for me. I even had friends comment on the negative change in my personality.

I don't believe you need any seduction advice. What everyone needs is confidence and respect for themselves, which is something most people who turn to this advice are lacking.

 

[Pulsar]

After recently going through an experience, I don't believe any chick is totally innocent or 'non-slutty'.

As much as I admire certain elements of his post that seem to have much in common with buddhism...some of it I just disagree with.

I don't believe in "being myself", if "myself", is not getting me the results I want.

 

[Dirtheart]

As much as I admire certain elements of his post that seem to have much in common with buddhism

Well, to use a little analogy, I have found that just like Buddhism, the middle way in Djing is the best.

On one side you have the PUAs who take the practice to the extreme. They are persistent, harsh on themselves and follow the "rules" to the letter. As previously discussed, these people cause themselves more harm than good.

On the other side you have the AFCs who are uneducated and their ignorance leads to continual rejection and suffering.

The middle way is the route of education, identifying and overcoming your weaknesses through self improvement and finding contentment with who you are. It's about confidence and having enough faith in yourself to act on your own initiative and understanding rather than depending on generic strategies.

I've experienced these three stages, but it's only since following the "middle way" I've achieved both the state of mind and a relationship that works for me.

 

[Chemistry]

I hope you're not Winston...

A very similar ideology packaged up differently since last time it got laughed outta the forum... also the link to the aws website

 

[TheInfamousCBear]

ANY relationship that has premarital sex has a short shelf-life.

Truth...

Take my cousin...That guy married his middle/high school sweethart, but he never smashed it until they got married, and they got married when they were in their late 20's...Of course he smashed other girls though throughout (sp?) his life, but those relationships didnt last...

 

[Playboi0323]

Well, I don't think anyone was coming onto this site looking on how to find a wife or life partner. If you are not the one giving advice, you are probably just looking for ways to boost your self-esteem and confidence by looking that anonymous girl in the eye and make them melt in your precense. I see that you are trying to prevent the addiction from starting, expua, but Ithink we just need to reaffirm these men that sex isn't the only key to happiness.

 

[One on One]

Well, I agree with most of what you said, but are you against pre-marital sex completely? Nearly all marriages these days have pre-marital sex and I'd say it's a pretty poor predictor of how a marriage might turn out.

I think you're right that these pickup sites get guys chasing the wrong women, but there still are quality women out there. The problem is that PUAs are focused on clubs and bars....what kind of quality could you possibly expect to find there?

Overall....a good post.

 

[MrCode]

Wow, this is pretty interesting that a lot of guys agree with this post. I guess it goes to show you expua that not all of us are dummies just out to get laid.

But still I think there is a fine line and while guys need to be careful not to fall into the trap of being an obsessed PUA, they also need to stop being an AFC if they have those tendencies.

Also I don't agree with the concept that women should just accept the way we are and we should not have to change. Sorry but the AFC way of thinking is just wrong, and women want men, not whiny weak little boys. If a man uses his failure with women as a catalyst to improve himself (which is pretty much all of us here), more power to him. His improvements are not somehow tainted just because his main reason for improving himself is women.

For example, I recently started the boot camp (I'd appreciate some traffic in MrCode's Boot Camp Journal if you guys don't mind), and I'm already seeing improvements in myself socially with ALL people, not just women. And I value that a lot.

Without this site and the guidelines in the DJ Boot Camp, I would not be having this improvement now.

 

[So Many Ways]

Originally posted by MrCode
Wow, this is pretty interesting that a lot of guys agree with this post. I guess it goes to show you expua that not all of us are dummies just out to get laid.

But still I think there is a fine line and while guys need to be careful not to fall into the trap of being an obsessed PUA, they also need to stop being an AFC if they have those tendencies.

Also I don't agree with the concept that women should just accept the way we are and we should not have to change. Sorry but the AFC way of thinking is just wrong, and women want men, not whiny weak little boys. If a man uses his failure with women as a catalyst to improve himself (which is pretty much all of us here), more power to him. His improvements are not somehow tainted just because his main reason for improving himself is women.

For example, I recently started the boot camp (I'd appreciate some traffic in MrCode's Boot Camp Journal if you guys don't mind), and I'm already seeing improvements in myself socially with ALL people, not just women. And I value that a lot.

Without this site and the guidelines in the DJ Boot Camp, I would not be having this improvement now.

I agree with MrCode. You nailed it right there.