Erm…a difficult topic

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All_Kindz_Of_Gainz

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Lets take the term BIPOC under the understanding that additional government funding is available to these groups, their businesses, and that preferential hiring is given to this group. Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) requirements are financially enforced by groups like Blackrock. The White House has also ordered all federal agencies to meet these DEI requirements.

Back to BIPOC...

Black
Indian
People
Of
Color

... you mean, "not white"?

You're welcome to take a look at college scholarships and see how many of them are about DEI, but not for white people. This same criticism could be pointed to the ratio of scholarships for men in STEM vs women in STEM... currently sitting at about 11:1 female to male.
If there is something I learned too late, is to never argue with a liberal. And this guy is very well known for being an extremist liberal in this forum.
 

Fruitbat

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How can someone with general wealth by systematically oppressed? The overwhelming majority of CEOs, lawyers, police, politicians, and high net worth individuals are white men. How are they oppressed?
Everyone gets a chance at success.

There is only one group who faces legal disadvantages, less funding, no support, no leg ups.

the states is different from here. I am supposing the response is “they come from wealthier backgrounds to begin with” and that’s true. However, the west is a majority white set of countries.

go to Nigeria, China, Japan, India. You will find it’s Nigerians, Chinese, Japanese and Indians who have positions of power and wealth. This is the European and European descended areas of the world, and it would be surprising for it not to be Europeans at the forefront.

Essentially what people seem to argue for is for the west to give special leg ups so the historic inhabitants don’t have advantage. Yet the rest of the world would laugh in your face. Go to Japan and suggest they have too few white people in positions of power.

we have to power share or we are racist whereas the rest of the world will chuckle at the idea of letting their migrant populations reach positions of power. Added to this, here, those people can openly say how power positions are “too white”

imagine going to emigrate to say, Thailand and saying their leadership is “disgustingly thai”

bear all this in mind, and then say we don’t face systematic oppression in our own home - our only home. We have nowhere else.

I wonder if liberals have actually travelled. They think that Asian boards of companies are all run by white men - lol.

Im not suggesting we are protectionist and prevent people ascending. Just a level playing field. Not a pervasive view that white men being successful in a majority white country Is something sinister and perverse.

my wife’s country:
Im not allowed to own property outright
My daughter is only allowed ONE western name on her passport.
I get special tax rates much higher than locals.
I have a higher bar for work - have to be educated to a higher level.

thats how diversity focussed the rest of the world are, while we bend over backwards to disadvantage our own people!
 
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EyeBRollin

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Lets take the term BIPOC under the understanding that additional government funding is available to these groups, their businesses, and that preferential hiring is given to this group. Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) requirements are financially enforced by groups like Blackrock. The White House has also ordered all federal agencies to meet these DEI requirements.

Back to BIPOC...

Black
Indian
People
Of
Color

... you mean, "not white"?

You're welcome to take a look at college scholarships and see how many of them are about DEI, but not for white people. This same criticism could be pointed to the ratio of scholarships for men in STEM vs women in STEM... currently sitting at about 11:1 female to male.
That is not oppression. Oppression and scholarships do not belong in the same paragraph.

My grandparents moved from the Deep South to New York because of what happened to black people at the time that tried voting.
 

EyeBRollin

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Oppression, as defined by wikipedia:
"Oppression is malicious or unjust treatment of, or exercise of power over, a group of individuals, often in the form of governmental authority or cultural opprobrium. It is related to regimentation, class, society, and punishment. Oppression may be overt or covert, depending on how it is practiced."

You genuinely do not see that any of this is happening?
I do not think having to go to Duke instead of Harvard qualifies as malicious, an exercise of power over, or a punishment. However, one can say it may not be “fair” on an individual level.
 

Fruitbat

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I have not. You didn’t answer any of my questions though..
to answer:

I would probably base my bias on my preconceptions.

I don’t consider Asian men to be violent. So if an Asian man was accused of a violent crime, I’d be less likely to believe it than say, a white guy with tattoos.

With Mason Greenwood. She looks like an insta girl. If there wasn’t audio and pictorial evidence, I’d likely think she was after a meal ticket. So I’d say I look based on appearance and my bias towards that rather than a racial interpretation.
 

Dr.Suave

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Mexicans are racists to blacks, cubans and puertoricans. Yeah you're different, sure.
You said all Latinos born in Latín América aré racist. So its on you ti back It Up, not on me to prove Im different.

"Yeah you're different, sure" replies are both beneath you and beneath a discussion forum

- Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
 

EyeBRollin

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However, the west is a majority white set of countries.

go to Nigeria, China, Japan, India. You will find it’s Nigerians, Chinese, Japanese and Indians who have positions of power and wealth. This is the European and European descended areas of the world, and it would be surprising for it not to be Europeans at the forefront.
agreed with this. However, the history still matters. I am in the USA and am not of predominately European descent. From genealogy, my family has been on what is now US soil since 1700 (USA founded 1776). Why is my country supposed to be considered Europeans at the forefront?
 

Fruitbat

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Popular case in the USA a long time ago-
3 players were accused of graping a stripper at a party.

Without knowing the race or sport- do you presume guilt or want to know all the evidence?

I know you might not want to hear this but statistically certain groups commit more violence and sexual assaults and that’s probably why assumptions are made. We can debate the whys and wherefores till the cows come home, but you have statistical realities out there that you can’t brush off. Let’s say it’s down to historical oppression for example. Fine, that’s OK but your daughter says she needs a lift from a party with “insert group with higher rates of assault” and what do you do? You go and pick her up.

this becomes very unfair as this will lead to wrongful assumptions. I’ll give you an example I’ve already given. My wife’s family are another race and they think white guys are players and always trying to tap other girls. I’ve tried to work twice as hard. White guys who date Asians are perceived as control freaks who want to bully a partner - imagine how well I’ll come off if she ever makes a false assault allegation. It is what it is.

I assume the case was American football and yes - 3 massive testosterone black players will be judged unfairly. I always thought Mike Tyson was unfairly convicted.

The US seems to have much more racism and on the other hand, more antagonism between groups and also some bizzare Things the other way like OJ and, dare I say it, George Floyd, which while it was horrible policing, he was resisting arrest which tons of white guys have been killed for - I’ve seen plenty videos of guys getting shot. However, ir was a sadistic and brutal abuse of power.
 

Fruitbat

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agreed with this. However, the history still matters. I am in the USA and am not of predominately European descent. From genealogy, my family has been on what is now US soil since 1700 (USA founded 1776). Why is my country supposed to be considered Europeans at the forefront?
You were on British soil originally!! You still should be if Americans had any sense at all, you’d immediately petition to rejoin the British empire and become loyal subjects of King Charles III. I’m sure you’ll all be queuing up for that, handing in your guns and having them replaced by pictures of the King for your living room, a red coat and a teapot!

America is a tough one but the answer is you should have the same rights as anyone. No favouritism to anyone. It’s as much your land as anyone else’s.

What I’m saying is it was built on the customs and institutions of mainly British men, and was populated mainly by Europeans and that’s why most the CEOs are white. It doesn’t make them privileged. It’s just how history happened.

I appreciate the history of black people in the states is somewhat different but plenty of poor Irish had fewer advantages. As I understand it, there were some wealthy black folks too.

Equaliry under law and colourblindness is the only way for me. We are all made of the same stuff and we should be treated as such - equals. Not little competing groups who need leg ups.

im going to add that almost within living memory you had segregation. Britain abolished all this years before. So I don’t understand the solutions or context.
 
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EyeBRollin

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Fine, that’s OK but your daughter says she needs a lift from a party with “insert group with higher rates of assault” and what do you do? You go and pick her up.
I would say any father would (or should) pick up his daughter here without even knowing the demographics.

I assume the case was American football and yes - 3 massive testosterone black players will be judged unfairly.
The case I was thinking of was actually the Duke Lacrosse team. Not 3 massive testosterone black guys with an innocent white female. It was 3 white guys, one black female stripper. And the bvtch lied. She later served time for other criminal acts.

Thank you for at least being honest. @Fruitbat i do challenge you to understand why as a man married to an attractive Asian woman , why non-white guys with white women is affecting you…
 

Deranged

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And my point is that white men are the only systematically oppressed people in America, yet are still successful (generalization) comparative to other races (not asian). That is either from generational wealth, or cultural value differences.
These 2 avenues to success were formed by well above average intelligence. Above average intelligence being the huge distinguishing factor for Christian White males sucess.
 

Fruitbat

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I would say any father would (or should) pick up his daughter here without even knowing the demographics.



The case I was thinking of was actually the Duke Lacrosse team. Not 3 massive testosterone black guys with an innocent white female. It was 3 white guys, one black female stripper. And the bvtch lied. She later served time for other criminal acts.

Thank you for at least being honest. @Fruitbat i do challenge you to understand why as a man married to an attractive Asian woman , why non-white guys with white women is affecting you…
Why are you trying to lay little traps and getting bent out of shape about it?
I’ve said it’s unfair, I’m just saying this is where the assumptions come from, and what I’ve said is true.

I’ve given examples of where it goes the other way. Here’s another. White cop shoots a black guy . What does everyone think? We all have our assumptions and preconceived ideas.

the original point of the post WASN’T that I have an issue with it, I don’t. It’s rank hypocrisy for me to think this way. It was in response to seeing a bunch of comments by black dudes on a Facebook post about how they impregnate and screw white women and it was aimed at upsetting white guys, basically, and I was observing I rarely see white guys flexing on other races in the same way - I could be wrong, I am naturally going to highlight it one way.

other things I’ve seen. “Most their grandkids Gonna be black” to basic conservative comments. This kind of thing
 

Pierce Manhammer

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Latino is used to describe those who are from countries Spain conquered, the Spanish would refer to them as “criollos”, or homegrown. Even if born of 100% Spanish stock just being born in the new World got you this designation.

Spaniards are more accurately called Hispanics, I guess.


no Latinos where I’m from so no frame of reference. Only real experience is a bit of bad vibes when I’ve been on holiday in Spain and a very anti English feeling, but to be fair we can have these attitudes too. Geberallt considered Latinos as essentially white anyway. European.
 
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EyeBRollin

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What I’m saying is it was built on the customs and institutions of mainly British men, and was populated mainly by Europeans and that’s why most the CEOs are white. It doesn’t make them privileged. It’s just how history happened.
To be fair, the portrayal of history is far from accurate regarding the USA. The USA was not a predominantly white country until the first waves of European immigration in the late 1800s. It was mostly indigenous and African descendants. (Uncounted in the population for obvious reasons). There are still remnants of it in our constitution with how Congress was structured. Also, the European ethnic groups weren’t even considered “white” either at the time. White has always been a political choice and narrative in the USA. So it is a little weird when people say the USA is a white country
 

EyeBRollin

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the original point of the post WASN’T that I have an issue with it, I don’t. It’s rank hypocrisy for me to think this way. It was in response to seeing a bunch of comments by black dudes on a Facebook post about how they impregnate and screw white women and it was aimed at upsetting white guys, basically, and I was observing I rarely see white guys flexing on other races in the same way - I could be wrong, I am naturally going to highlight it one way.
Got it. Yeah, that behavior is weird and psychotic.
 

Fruitbat

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To be fair, the portrayal of history is far from accurate regarding the USA. The USA was not a predominantly white country until the first waves of European immigration in the late 1800s. It was mostly indigenous and African descendants. (Uncounted in the population for obvious reasons). There are still remnants of it in our constitution with how Congress was structured. Also, the European ethnic groups weren’t even considered “white” either at the time. White has always been a political choice and narrative in the USA. So it is a little weird when people say the USA is a white country
European then. Things like the legal system, political system, language, the economic policy, the architectural techniques, the system of commerce, and the philosophical concepts the constitution was based on were the product of European colonialists and not indigenous or Africans but they certainly had a place in the cultural evolution.

At that time Europe had a huge progressive advantage on near enough everyone so at the time the US was conceived then these were adopted. This isn’t a flex it’s just a matter of historical fact. In the same way, the Romans were hugely influential on the evolution of Northern Europe and for Britain, we were conquered by the Normans in 1066 and the legal system and much of our language and social infrastructure was taken from the French, or what today would be considered the French. While my own Anglo Saxon systems came to an end in large part.

Britain today is very much a composite of this as the United States is a composite. However, our entire legal framework is Norman

Britain even borrowed many ideas sourced from the crusades which originated in Egypt.
 

Fruitbat

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Latino is used to describe those who are from countries Spain conquered, the Spanish would refer to the as “criollos”, or homegrown. Even if born of 100% Spanish stock just being born in the new World got you this designation.

Spaniards are more accurately called Hispanics, I guess.
Ah, we don’t really distinguish this here. We’d say that someone is Spanish descent….generically the British have a mix of Nordic and Mediterranean blood. James Bond? Not Scandinavian is he?! Black hair…we have a fair bit of Hispanic in us already.

When British girls go on holiday to the med they often get a fair bit of Hispanic in them…literally. Def considered attractive by British women.
 
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