Electric Cars

Billtx49

Moderator
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,082
Reaction score
5,482
Location
DFW
Tesla is reportedly delivering its first semis by the end of the year.
That Might be possible for local deliveries with better than current batteries considering that kind of workload.
Long haul truckers on the other hand during their 11 hour federally mandated drive time can go 600 - 700 miles. I’ll believe electric long haul when I see it considering current car distance can be cut by up to 40% by simply running their heaters too hot.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
Lovely when you're outrunning an oncoming hurricane. I bet those storm chaser guys are psyched.
That makes no sense.

That Might be possible for local deliveries with better than current batteries considering that kind of workload.
Long haul truckers on the other hand during their 11 hour federally mandated drive time can go 600 - 700 miles. I’ll believe electric long haul when I see it considering current car distance can be cut by up to 40% by simply running their heaters too hot.
The Tesla Semi allegedly can go 500 highway miles on a charge. The heater claim is false, Bill. Range drops for all vehicles (gas included) in cold weather, and it’s mostly due to factors other than the heater.
 

Billtx49

Moderator
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,082
Reaction score
5,482
Location
DFW
The heater claim is false, Bill. Range drops for all vehicles (gas included) in cold weather.
You should share your knowledge with Tesla, they seem to be thinking otherwise. See a note from the Model 3 Owners Guide about heat and A/C climate control below-

[Note
The climate control system is powered by the high voltage Battery. Therefore, prolonged use decreases driving range.]

A/C systems in ICE cars do decrease mpg slightly in warm weather months, as the compressor is an extra drag on the motor. ICE Heaters do Not reduce mileage, their heat source comes from redirecting already hot engine coolant to the heater core …
 
M

member160292

Guest
I don’t think people forgot… Tesla is reportedly delivering its first semis by the end of the year. I do wonder though why diesel-electric hybrids aren’t a thing like they are in trains. Any mechanical engineers out there able to chime in?
Environmentalism and sustainability initiatives for companies have made diesel powered engines a thing of the past. Diesel-electric is a great concept, but it’s a non-starter nowadays
 

lost_blackbird

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Messages
890
Reaction score
822
Location
South West UK
Car solar panels in the UK would be about as much use as a chocolate frying pan.
That's why they aren't commonplace on our houses. I can see the benefit in a
sun baked country but we get maybe a month of strong sunshine a year give
or take and at least 3 months of rain, 3 months of cold weather and the rest of the
time it's grey. We have a government mandate now for new houses to have them
installed, but it's only to pacify the eco zealots in the planning departments. Realistically
they are a bit of an expensive white elephant in our climate. The biggest purpose here
they serve is to make the owner feel like they are making some kind of difference.
Maybe they are, for 4 weeks a year when our energy consumption is at its lowest anyway.
It's also why, by and large only our commercial premises have A/C, purely to get you
in there and spending money when the weather is warm. Very few homes have A/C
it's simply not sunny and hot enough for prolonged periods to justify the expense of
an installation of such a system. I'm sure they are useful in some countries though.
 

BillyPilgrim

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 9, 2021
Messages
4,686
Reaction score
3,689
That makes no sense.



The Tesla Semi allegedly can go 500 highway miles on a charge. The heater claim is false, Bill. Range drops for all vehicles (gas included) in cold weather, and it’s mostly due to factors other than the heater.
You need sunshine for a solar panel to work. In a cloudy climate, no bueno. And if you're trying to outrun a storm with a limited charge (think Florida), you're screwed.
 
Last edited:

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
You should share your knowledge with Tesla, they seem to be thinking otherwise. See a note from the Model 3 Owners Guide about heat and A/C climate control below-

[Note
The climate control system is powered by the high voltage Battery. Therefore, prolonged use decreases driving range.]

A/C systems in ICE cars do decrease mpg slightly in warm weather months, as the compressor is an extra drag on the motor. ICE Heaters do Not reduce mileage, they’re usually heated by redirecting already hot engine coolant to the heater core …
That refers to the heater use only. ICE mileage efficiency drops by about 20% in cold weather. I don’t know why you are implying this exclusively happens to EVs.

You need sunshine for a solar panel to work. In a cloudy climate, no bueno.
Germany is a world leader in solar use. Not the sunniest climate…


it's simply not sunny and hot enough for prolonged periods to justify the expense of
an installation of such a system. I'm sure they are useful in some countries though.
@lost_blackbird Germany is significantly sunnier than the UK?
 
Last edited:

Billtx49

Moderator
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,082
Reaction score
5,482
Location
DFW
ICE mileage efficiency drops by about 20% in cold weather. I don’t know why you are implying this exclusively happens to EVs.
I have a lifetime of working on my own vehicles, Learn the facts:

Due to the fact that cold air is denser than warm air, there are significantly more oxygen molecules entering the combustion chamber when it is cold outside than when it is hot outside. Better combustion is made possible by more oxygen, which results in a significant gain in power.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
Learn the facts,

Due to the fact that cold air is denser than warm air, there are significantly more oxygen molecules entering the combustion chamber when it is cold outside than when it is hot outside. Better combustion is made possible by more oxygen, which results in a significant gain in power.
ICEs are less fuel efficient in the winter. Winter weather is bad all around for fluid mechanics. Drag, viscosity of lubricants, and the fact that your engine takes at least 5 minutes to reach normal operating temperatures. You can pretend winter mileage loss only occurs in EVs and not ICEs, but that just isn’t the reality.
 

Billtx49

Moderator
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,082
Reaction score
5,482
Location
DFW
Let me break this down to an elementary level for you,

EV heater runs on battery - battery can’t recharge itself because the technology doesn’t currently economically exist = less battery power and mileage.

ICE heater heats after 3-5 min. driving on already hot engine coolant - blower fan runs on constantly charged by motor vehicle electrical system - motor runs better in cold air = same or better mileage as warm weather driving without a/c on.

I understand the climate cult agenda, but you have to be realistic, know and acknowledge the limitations of what you’re trying to sell to others, because denial and unnecessary competing product tear down doesn’t sell anything …
 

lost_blackbird

Master Don Juan
Joined
Sep 27, 2020
Messages
890
Reaction score
822
Location
South West UK
Due to the fact that cold air is denser than warm air, there are significantly more oxygen molecules entering the combustion chamber when it is cold outside than when it is hot outside. Better combustion is made possible by more oxygen, which results in a significant gain in power.
Hence cold air induction kits.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
Let me break this down to an elementary level for you,

EV heater runs on battery - battery can’t recharge itself because the technology doesn’t currently economically exist = less battery power and mileage.

ICE heater heats after 3-5 min. driving on already hot engine coolant - blower fan runs on constantly charged by motor vehicle electrical system - motor runs better in cold air = same or better mileage as warm weather driving without a/c on.
This is incorrect. Gas vehicles do not get greater or equal fuel efficiency in cold weather compared to warm weather. The fact that you are even trying to argue this shows how irrational your bias is on this topic.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
Hence cold air induction kits.
Let me break this down to an elementary level for you,
Let’s put this entire thing to bed now.

Why is winter fuel economy lower?
Cold weather affects your vehicle in more ways than you might expect:
  • Engine and transmission friction increases in cold temperatures due to cold engine oil and other drive-line fluids.
  • It takes longer for your engine to reach its most fuel-efficient temperature. This affects shorter trips more, since your car spends more of your trip at less-than-optimal temperatures.
  • Heated seats, window defrosters, and heater fans use additional power.
  • Warming up your vehicle before you start your trip lowers your fuel economy—idling gets 0 miles per gallon.
  • Colder air is denser, increasing aerodynamic drag on your vehicle, especially at highway speeds.
  • Tire pressure decreases in colder temperatures, increasing rolling resistance.
  • Winter grades of gasoline can have slightly less energy per gallon than summer blends.
  • Battery performance decreases in cold weather, making it harder for your alternator to keep your battery charged. This also affects the performance of the regenerative braking system on hybrids, plug-in hybrids, and electric vehicles.
 

Billtx49

Moderator
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
6,082
Reaction score
5,482
Location
DFW
There are a lot of views on cold weather driving with ICE vehicles. As stated above, one being that winter blend gasoline produces less power and easier cold weather starting. Another being that dense cold air that makes motors run better produces more highway speed drag. The list is endless. A shorter list is:

EV heater runs on battery - battery can’t recharge itself because the technology doesn’t currently economically exist = less battery power and mileage. Possibly up to 41% less mileage.

I do admit that I am biased towards the vehicles that about 97.8% of the world currently drive and isn’t going to completely end anytime this century. End of my discussion participation …
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
EV heater runs on battery - battery can’t recharge itself because the technology doesn’t currently economically exist = less battery power and mileage. Possibly up to 41% less mileage.
All vehicle types have efficiency reduction in the winter. EV range less in winter is about 2/3 the heater, 1/3 other factors. Gas vehicles experience a 20-30% loss themselves. The argument you made is that only EVs suffer range penalty in the cold, which is false.


I do admit that I am biased towards the vehicles that about 97.8% of the world currently drive and isn’t going to completely end anytime this century. End of my discussion participation …
Bias is natural however there is no need to spread information that is untrue or misleading.
 

Desdinova

Master Don Juan
Joined
Nov 15, 2004
Messages
11,641
Reaction score
4,718
I don’t think people forgot… Tesla is reportedly delivering its first semis by the end of the year. I do wonder though why diesel-electric hybrids aren’t a thing like they are in trains. Any mechanical engineers out there able to chime in?
The problem with the Semis is that they need so much power, not just to haul the truck, trailer, people and batteries, but to haul cargo as well. Are these Tesla trucks going to be able to haul paper? Are the batteries plus cargo going to make them over weight capacity? Sorry, but I honestly don't see it happening.
 

EyeBRollin

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 18, 2015
Messages
10,723
Reaction score
8,647
Age
35
The problem with the Semis is that they need so much power, not just to haul the truck, trailer, people and batteries, but to haul cargo as well. Are these Tesla trucks going to be able to haul paper? Are the batteries plus cargo going to make them over weight capacity? Sorry, but I honestly don't see it happening.
The truck is rated for 40 tons. Once the vehicle reaches speed it’s a function of drag which on level ground is more about aerodynamics and rolling resistance then weight. What makes you think the engineers haven’t figured this out?

Pepsi, Walmart, UPS, and FedEx have already placed the first orders.
 
Last edited:
Top