Electric Cars

EyeBRollin

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California can get their electric cars and test them out for me. Work out all the bugs. Get that firmware to a stable version. I’ll wait till the last geek snorts before I get one, just like I did with the smartphone. Didn’t get my first smartphone till 2016, after watching people go thru he!! with them in 2011-13. One of the first androids crashed on someone I know right as they were calling 911 about an emergency with their kid.. Bleeding edge technology meant for serious use is a dangerous combo. No thanks!!
Electric propulsion is nothing new. Commuter trains and subways have been around for decades. Electric cars in their current form are more than a decade old. We have battery data from GM & Tesla showing >90% of battery capacity retained after 500,000 miles. This is hardly bleeding edge tech.
 

BackInTheGame78

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Can't take these seriously until you can go on a long trip with them.

Who the hell wants to be in the middle of a long trips and have to stop for 4-6 hours to charge your car??
 

BackInTheGame78

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California can get their electric cars and test them out for me. Work out all the bugs. Get that firmware to a stable version. I’ll wait till the last geek snorts before I get one, just like I did with the smartphone. Didn’t get my first smartphone till 2016, after watching people go thru he!! with them in 2011-13. One of the first androids crashed on someone I know right as they were calling 911 about an emergency with their kid.. Bleeding edge technology meant for serious use is a dangerous combo. No thanks!!
EV technology isn't even close to bleeding edge tech. It's been around for 2 decades if not longer.

Hydrogen powered vehicles maybe...

Some form of anti-gravity propulsion? Sure...

EV? Not even close.
 

EyeBRollin

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BackInTheGame78

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How much of your driving is road trips?



Level 3 charging at rest areas takes 45 minutes.
Not that often but when it happens I definitely don't want to have to look for a charging station and potentially have to wait my turn in line...

45 minutes when you are already driving 15 or 16 hours is an eternity.
 

EyeBRollin

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Not that often but when it happens I definitely don't want to have to look for a charging station and potentially have to wait my turn in line...

45 minutes when you are already driving 15 or 16 hours is an eternity.
The average American drives 40 miles per day. Electric cars on the market have over 200 miles of range. To base a vehicle’s viability on the one road trip most people take per year is irrational. We aren’t long haul truckers.
 

BackInTheGame78

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The average American drives 40 miles per day. Electric cars on the market have over 200 miles of range. To base a vehicle’s viability on the one road trip most people take per year is irrational. We aren’t long haul truckers.
OK. Then let's say you get home after a long day and you forget to plug in your car. Then get up to go to work the next day and...oops. Gotta wait.

That probably happens quite a bit
 

Alvafe

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OK. Then let's say you get home after a long day and you forget to plug in your car. Then get up to go to work the next day and...oops. Gotta wait.

That probably happens quite a bit
meh yes and no, really how many times you did a ops forgot to fill?

btw since we have a limit of 5 years on batterys, I will skip eletric cars till this is fixed
 

Billtx49

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I would think that when an EV battery says zero you aren’t going Anywhere. When an ICE registers empty you still have another 30-50 miles built in.
Every time a new electronic product becomes available the price is exorbitantly high until it eventually equalizes at a lower rate after sales volume and competition soar, plus you Never know if the technology trend will hold over time. Ask early VHS buyers about that marketing phenomenon …
 

zekko

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The average American drives 40 miles per day. Electric cars on the market have over 200 miles of range. To base a vehicle’s viability on the one road trip most people take per year is irrational. We aren’t long haul truckers.
I probably take less road trips than most people, but it's still several times per year. I don't want to buy one vehicle for short trips and another for long trips, that's even less rational.
 

EyeBRollin

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OK. Then let's say you get home after a long day and you forget to plug in your car. Then get up to go to work the next day and...oops. Gotta wait.

That probably happens quite a bit
I’ve forgotten to charge my car one time in five years. It becomes habit like locking the door.

I probably take less road trips than most people, but it's still several times per year. I don't want to buy one vehicle for short trips and another for long trips, that's even less rational.
Why would you buy a whole car for the 1-2 times a year you take a road trip?

I would think that when an EV battery says zero you aren’t going Anywhere.
Most have a buffer in them. How much varies by vehicle. Volt battery when it’s “empty” there is still 20% juice left. The reason being it’s bad to fully discharge Li-on batteries. Tesla tells owners ti charge between 40% to 90% as often as possible. That charge pattern lets the battery last indefinitely.
 
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zekko

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Why would you buy a whole car for the 1-2 times a year you take a road trip?
More like 3-4. But why would I buy a car that wouldn't serve all my car needs, when I can buy another one that does? Besides which, where I live, charging stations are few and far between.
 

Reyaj

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I already broke this down. Home charging with a garage mounted charger is level 2. Supercharging is level 3. No other car company will make super chargers because they already exist!
You said only Tesla can use the supercharger though.. wouldn't other car companies want to make their own super charger? You're saying it's encrypted for Tesla so I'm understanding that only Tesla cars are able to super charge...
 

EyeBRollin

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You said only Tesla can use the supercharger though.. wouldn't other car companies want to make their own super charger? You're saying it's encrypted for Tesla so I'm understanding that only Tesla cars are able to super charge...
Tesla supercharger are not the only level 3 chargers that exist. At rest areas they are universal non branded chargers. Called “fast charging” stations.

More like 3-4. But why would I buy a car that wouldn't serve all my car needs, when I can buy another one that does? Besides which, where I live, charging stations are few and far between.
Your home is a charging station. 98% of the time most people are not on road trips. Compared to the gasoline car equivalent, EVs are faster, quieter, better handling, safer, lower operational cost, and better for the environment. I’m guessing you haven’t driven one…?
 

Kotaix

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You said only Tesla can use the supercharger though.. wouldn't other car companies want to make their own super charger? You're saying it's encrypted for Tesla so I'm understanding that only Tesla cars are able to super charge...
There is EVgo, which is the fast charge connector that Nissan Leafs use, and there is a special adapter for this to connect to Teslas. There is only one-way compatibility since nissans can't plug into tesla superchargers for fast charging.

It's ridiculous for car companies to make their own chargers, just like it would be ridiculous for each company to have a proprietary gas filler port. There needs to be commonality for EVs to take off. But here we go with betamax vs VHS all over again.

The cost is only $10K more than gasoline powered equivalent, most of that difference is currently subsidized by the government. The $80K EVs are competing with $70K gas cars, not $40K gas cars.
A Nissan versa starts at $15k, a Leaf SV Plus (200-230 miles range, and the only one worth getting) starts at $36k. They are both compact sized. The bolt is more affordable, but it's still almost $20k more than the spark.

As far as I'm concerned, buying any vehicle that costs in the $80k range is just flushing money down the toilet. Even if you get government subsidies, the depreciation will still rape you.
 

EyeBRollin

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A Nissan versa starts at $15k, a Leaf SV Plus (200-230 miles range, and the only one worth getting) starts at $36k. They are both compact sized. The bolt is more affordable, but it's still almost $20k more than the spark.
This is dishonest. They aren’t even comparable models. Better comparison was Chevy Cruze vs. Chevy Volt. They have damn near identical dimensions built on the same platform. The fully loaded Cruze ran for $28K compared to 40K for the Volt, which was still slightly better optioned out at the highest trim.

The cost premium of the EV powertrain compared to ICE is roughly $10K of which is mostly subsidized by the government. An $80K EV is not competing with $30K or $40k cars; it’s playing in the $70K market.
 
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zekko

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Your home is a charging station. 98% of the time most people are not on road trips. Compared to the gasoline car equivalent, EVs are faster, quieter, better handling, safer, lower operational cost, and better for the environment. I’m guessing you haven’t driven one…?
No, I haven't. All I'm saying is why would I buy a car that I can't take a road trip in? Or one that would be very inconvenient to take a road trip in, at least?
 

Kotaix

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Another current con of electric cars:

If you get into a wreck and there is an insurance claim, you might be SOL on getting it repaired because insurance companies have very few shops that they'll trust to do work, and you may not have an insurance qualified shop in your area at all.
 

Kotaix

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This is dishonest. They aren’t even comparable models. Better comparison was Chevy Cruze vs. Chevy Volt. They have damn near identical dimensions built on the same platform. The fully loaded Cruze ran for $28K compared to 40K for the Volt, which was still slightly better optioned out at the highest trim.
It's not a dishonest comparison. The only metric I'm going off of is the amount of money you have to spend to get cars with an equivalent driving range on one fill-up. Any vehicle with less than 200 miles of range is a non-starter for a lot people.
 

EyeBRollin

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No, I haven't. All I'm saying is why would I buy a car that I can't take a road trip in? Or one that would be very inconvenient to take a road trip in, at least?
Test drive one. It will make sense.

Another current con of electric cars:

If you get into a wreck and there is an insurance claim, you might be SOL on getting it repaired because insurance companies have very few shops that they'll trust to do work, and you may not have an insurance qualified shop in your area at all.
That’s more of a Tesla specific issue. Non-Tesla EVs share body parts with other models of their make.

It's not a dishonest comparison. The only metric I'm going off of is the amount of money you have to spend to get cars with an equivalent driving range on one fill-up. Any vehicle with less than 200 miles of range is a non-starter for a lot people.
It is dishonest. That’s not how people shop cars. People don’t cross shop Hyundai Sonatas with a BMW 5 series because of driving range. They shop class and price point. Musk was smart to have Tesla play in the luxury car market. No Kia driver is buying a $70K Tesla.
 
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