Hello Friend,

If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.

It will be the most efficient use of your time.

And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.

Thank you for visiting and have a great day!

Do flowers grow from seeds planted?

STORMCLOUD

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Just wanted some feedback regarding a situation that occured today. Maybe, it can be discussed in more general terms, which might allow a better understanding of human nature.

Quick overview. The girl I'm working on does have a BF, but has shown unbelievably strong interest in me i.e. kino, looking to interact with me as much as possible, always redirecting me back to her if my focus drifts too far from her, placing herself in view of me, etc. I've generally kept my distance and maintained a go on with my life attitude, but I have shown interest because, I am interested. Who wouldn't be. As much as I can, I respect the relationship and avoid any discussion of outside interaction. However, I keep her in the bullpen more as a long term prospect with a realistic perspective.Unfortunately I might treat her too much as a friend, which might be a problem, too. It's like, I don't care what she throws at me. Nothing fazes me.

Even with all this, she supposively is committed to her BF. Although whenever, she mentions him, it's always about his shortcomings. I don't get that "he's the one vibe" you would expect. I might add, I never really discuss the guy either. She just brings him up at the strangest time. Almost as if she had a moment of guilt or something.

Now here's what happened which puzzles me...

Today my girl of interest brought her sister (who has a boyfriend) to lunch. We sat at two different tables, which I might add my girl positioned herself to be noticed by me. I will admit I was in a pissy mood because of work and was withdrawn from her and pretty much everybody else. However, we were able to talk. At which time, she asked me what I thought of her sister who I was never able to meet. I responded by saying I thought she was prettier than her sister. Not as a way of seeking her approval but more as a statement in fact. She never really responded to what I said other than to be more helpful with the food.

However, later in the day (after cooling off) in a recap, we talked about her sister and how most guys thought my girl was always considered pretty and her sister was generalized as cute (her words). She said her sister was more outgoing than she was and never has any problem interacting with people. This gave me the impression she was jealous in some way. I asked her if she ever became jealous of her sister, and I got the "no not at all" response. I thought maybe she was, since my girl said she wasn't very attractive growing up. She said her sister mentioned she in fact had a little jealousy of my girl.

Further into our conversation, she mentioned how she guided her sister from her troubled past to graduating from college. She mentioned how her sister perceived her as a role model. Blah...Blah...

Now I might have formulated my own views here by overanalyzing the situation, but I'll throw it out anyways because some light may be shed here.

With all this being said.... How does one create impact in what they say to someone. In other words, have any of you "planted seeds", which produced results? Do you find what you say makes them ponder and reshape their reality to be more in line with yours? I've said some things (i.e. telling her to open her eyes more and learn to accept herself more) to her to cause her to personally reflect on herself during those times she's thinking. This isn't an intended manipulation thing, but more of an awareness type deal.

Also, specific to the discussion about her sister... Was my response I thought she was prettier, in some way drawing her closer to me (through validation of her) or was she intent on setting me up with her sister?

I should add today she shared more about herself, ie. family, her fears, personal issues, etc. than any other time I've known her. It's like a barrier was broken. The walls are coming down. The way to describe it is, we went from playing in the shallow end of the pool to deeper waters. Is this typical of someone heading into the friend zone or someone beginning to reassign her feeling towards with me?

There were other things that could have contributed to her change in behavior for example, an old interest of mine (gorgeous and sophisticated) showed up by chance and gave a lot of kino and was enthusiastic to see. We carried a conversation in full view of her and her reaction can be characterized as unpleased.

Your feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!
 

Victory Unlimited

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Yo Stormcloud,


Welcome to the Sosuave Army of DJs Dude.

Now, about your post:

What is it that you want from this babe? Is she a babe that you'd like to get with ASAP or is she just someone you'd like to keep waiting in the wings? How high is YOUR interest level?

Judging from the fact that you took the time to write this post about her, and until you correct me if I'm wrong,----- then I'm gonna assume your interest level is high with this girl.

So here goes:

1. Boyfriends for MOST women are just Place Keepers that they use until they find the item they REALLY Want. Read this again.

Unless he's a psycho-killer maniac nutjob, the boyfriend is HER problem, not yours. Girls who respect their relationships don't talk, flirt, and share their innermost secrets with other guys. Exceptions: wh0res and slvts. But the average good girl definitely won't. Time will tell which kind of babe your girl is.

Continue to ignore the fact that she brings up her boyfriend if that seems to be working for you. But if it isn't, and it's starting to get on your nerves when she talks about him, try emasculating him IN HER EYES with your responses. How do you do this? By actually seemingly DEFENDING him whenever she puts him down.

Example:

Her: "My boyfriend is so jealous. He never wants me to spend too much time talking to my male coworkers."

You: "Well, you know, some guys are just like that. Deep down, some guys know that when they manage to get with a really attractive woman, they're ALWAYS nervous about it. They're always insecure because they're afraid that the woman will find out that they're really not on her level.

So your boyfriend probably feels that you may be out of his league and that he's lucky to have you. So go easy on the guy. I'm sure he's doing the best he can."

Now, what have you done by using this tactic? You have both come to his defense AND cut off his balls in HER eyes at the same time! You have planted seeds of MORE doubt into her mind about him.

You have now directed her to think of him as a needy, supplicating, insecure, pet that's always lapping at her heels and standing in the way of her personal freedom. In other words, she no longer thinks of him as a man worthy of her.

But at the same time, by covertly pointing out his JERK/WIMP behavior, you have painted a picture of YOURSELF as someone who is above HIM in status---and thusly, MORE attractive to her than him.


2. If you want her, you've GOT to make a move on her as soon as YESTERDAY. That's right, your instincts are correct, the Friend Zone IS imminent. But the good news is that I don't think you're in it yet.

Women are emotionally driven AND they love to show you that by their conversation. If you want her, and you want to boost her self-esteem, what you want to do is make her tie GOOD feelings to being with YOU.

Don't focus so much ONLY on what you say to her, instead kino her as well. What you're trying to do here is NOT tell her how to feel better about herself, but to MAKE her FEEL all those good things about herself by being EXCELLENT in her presence.

Just be the masculine man that makes her feel like a feminine woman. BE A MAN. BE THE PRIZE. (look up posts by Pook and others for more on this subject).

Back to the question of seeds. Yes, MOST seeds do grow when you plant them. What you have to do is DECIDE what kind of seeds you really want to sow. If you want to sow "I want to be your lover" seeds, then do it now and do it consistently. No half-stepping.

A half-assed approach to life leads to half-assed results. Trust me. I know this by personal experience (some of which are more recent than I care to admit.lol)

I don't really think it's possible to keep a girl on the back burner indefinitely. She'll always find herself ANOTHER Place Keeper while YOU'RE waiting to decide whether you want HER or not. So the push/pull method of attraction usually has a time limit before the line brakes.

But If you decide you DO want her, go for it. Isolate her, seduce her, and make her put up or shut up. And do it SOON. Because if you don't, she'll soon begin telling you stories about OTHER guys she LIKES.

That's when you will have become her EMOTIONAL TAMPON.

And Fukkk that.

I've found that MOST women don't really form an emotional bond with you UNTIL you've had sex with them. That's why it's easy for them to guiltlessly use guys for food, companionship, and entertainement----they don't give a damn about you because they haven't let you INSIDE them.

By the way, that's why Attention Wh0res are so full of shiit---because they get what THEY want from you WITHOUT giving YOU a damn thing in return.

Good sex has the potential to OPEN most women up to you in so many ways. It can make them very VULNERABLE----and they KNOW it.

Other than true morality and/or societal pressure, that's another reason why women try to withold sex from men.

Most of them KNOW that AFTER good sex, a major power shift takes place.

They lose the power and WE gain it.


Good work so far. Continue to MAN UP.


Decide what you really want, then...TAKE CONTROL.





Peace...one day.
 
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Rollo Tomassi

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STORM, women have boyfriends and girlfriends. If you're not fvcking her, you're her girlfriend. Got it?

Nevermind what messages you think this girl is sending with regards to her sister or even these soulful confession, that's not what you're asking here. The issue in your case isn't "planting seeds" or making some significant impact with anything you can say or do because A.) you're an Intellectual Wh0re and B.) you're her Boyfriend Surrogate. I would point out your obvious ONEitis here, but I think this is a given. You're rationalizing, and meticulously analyzing the behavior and intent of a one woman. This is a 'Sniper' mentality. You're not planting seeds, you're playing girlfriend to her.

I see you as an Intellectual Wh0re (not a flame BTW), because you're pre-qualifying your behavior regarding this girl before you deliver the facts. You KNOW you're in the 'friend zone' right now, it's not decaying into it as you'd like us (and yourself) to think, you're already there. When I see guys type flowery drivel like this:

STORMCLOUD said:
,..today she shared more about herself, ie. family, her fears, personal issues, etc. than any other time I've known her. It's like a barrier was broken. The walls are coming down. The way to describe it is, we went from playing in the shallow end of the pool to deeper waters. Is this typical of someone heading into the friend zone or someone beginning to reassign her feeling towards with me?
I know exactly what I'm dealing with. Even the poetic title of your thread gives you away. You've been waiting for that one perfect chance when the clouds will part, the light will shine down through the heavens while a chorus of Angels sing and she'll say those words you've wasted all of this time and effort dreaming she would say, "Oh STORMCLOUD, I've been such a fool, I was hoping my Jerk boyfriend would change, but, but now, I see it has been you all along, right here in front of me, and it's you who I truly love, it's you who are my true soulmate.":cry:

You're playing Surrogate Boyfriend here; she gets alll of the loyalty, respect, dedication, communication, sensitivity, self-sacrifice, etc.that the 'perfect boyfriend' can offer with absolutely no expectations of reciprocating intimacy in any way. It's the ideal situation for ANY woman, she can guiltlessly fvck her cute (but Jerk) boyfriend, while you (the Nice Guy) make up for his deficits while you blab away for hours hoping that one day she'll see what a great guy you 'really' are. It's analogous to a guy having a Fvck Buddy, all sex with no expectations or reciprocating anything more emotional. Ergo, you are this woman's Intellectual Wh0re, or Emotional Tampon if you prefer.

Now the question remains, just how long are you going to persist in wasting your time and energies focusing on one individual? How many opportunities have you missed with other, better, prospective women while you pined away the weeks, months (years?) waiting this girl out? Hmm?
 

WestCoaster

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I'll expand on Rollo's take and re-emphasize his plate theory (do a search and read up on it) ... take it from a guy who has been thrown into the friendship zone too much, there's no escaping. It's like quick sand.

It's a numbers game (see plate theory) really. If you're dating a lot of different women, one eventually rises to the top and surpasses the others, that is if you're looking for a girlfriend. Or in plate theory lingo, the other plates fall and one remains ... or if you want to keep spinning, you just replace fallen plates with new plates.

Plate theory or the numbers game is so highly underrated and misunderstood that most guys don't get it, including me too often. I do recall when I've spun plates, I've been more confident, had better dates, met better women, even interviewed better for jobs. My options were not limited.

What you're doing here is focusing on one woman, as Rollo calls the "shotgun approach" hoping your one bullet hits instead of the machine gun approach, firing all over the place.

Oneitis is a damaging affliction as it limits a person's options, keeps them focused on only one person -- and if that person doesn't come through or is playing you like a fiddle while she gets it on with someone else, you're freaking sunk.

Numbers game, plate theory, machine gun approach, whatever you want to call it, you need to implement it. Take it from a guy who too often (and still slips into that trap) focuses on one, it doesn't work.
 

Burningblue

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Why are you chasing after a girl that has a boyfriend? There are billions of women on the planet, so why go after one who is taken? A bit of oneitis perhaps. Worse yet, it's oneitis for a girl who is not available. No good can come of that.
Or, think of it this way. If you can get her to cheat on her BF with you, that only proves that she is a cheater. Once a cheater always a cheater my friend. If she cheats on him with you, she will cheat on you with someone else.
Finally, I realize that we are living in an amoral wasteland but you don't have to contribute to it. There are opportunities with other, better, hotter women out there who are actually available. Only weeds will grow from the seeds you are planting.
 

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STORMCLOUD

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Thanks for the feedback gentleman!

I've been pushed back towards evaluating what is important to me. This was definitely a reality check.

Victory Unlimited

You provided real insight when you say:

Boyfriends for MOST women are just Place Keepers that they use until they find the item they REALLY Want. Read this again.

Unless he's a psycho-killer maniac nutjob, the boyfriend is HER problem, not yours. Girls who respect their relationships don't talk, flirt, and share their innermost secrets with other guys. Exceptions: wh0res and slvts. But the average good girl definitely won't. Time will tell which kind of babe your girl is.
I hope I don't have an AW on my hands.

I think I was sucked in by this girl with the boyfriend because of what she was telling me in the beginning. Her emotional needs weren't being met or she didn't really care for him. This definitely explains why my interest in her developed in the first place.

Also, helpful is to really analyze what I actually want from this girl. That's something I haven't fully concluded, yet.

Rollo...

Thanks for the slap around. I agree with you. She's trying to have her cake and eat it too. But it shouldn't be about that. It should be about what I want. I think I got caught up in using the techniques on how to attract a woman discussed on this sight instead of building a better understanding of how to be a selfish b**tard and meet my needs first.

When you said the following:

Now the question remains, just how long are you going to persist in wasting your time and energies focusing on one individual? How many opportunities have you missed with other, better, prospective women while you pined away the weeks, months (years?) waiting this girl out? Hmm?
Pretty obvious, but the fvcking stormclouds in my head have opened up enough. Causing me to go, Duh, what the hell you doing STORMCLOUD?

I'll let these words remind me to stay focused on what I want.

Westcoaster

I do spin plates (maybe not enough). I date other women, but this one keeps rising to the top. The others are great girls, but don't have that little extra, which keeps my attention. She knows how to play the game well. I've actually heard her say some things which suggests she's been relying on sites similar to this to better understand male behavior. I think what's best is for me to maybe buy another set or change my plates?

Burningblue

Sounds like I need a little WeedbeGone. Funny how we are on this planet with billions of women and I have to focused on this one being. It could be worse. She could have been married. :D

Now there seems to be a conflict between Victory and Rollo when it comes to the discussion of the boyfriend.

Victory Unlimited... You made a point, which basically say a woman will move on to someone better if they have higher value.

Rollo, I see a conflict with what you say:

You're playing Surrogate Boyfriend here; she gets alll of the loyalty, respect, dedication, communication, sensitivity, self-sacrifice, etc.that the 'perfect boyfriend' can offer with absolutely no expectations of reciprocating intimacy in any way.
This seems to argue the "she can have the best of both worlds theory" and doesn't really need to trade up. Both views seem to have some real applications because women have a history of doing both.

I would say I am emotionally more stable, financially secure, mature and definitely more comfortable with myself than this guy. I am a man compared to this boy. She even indirectly brought it up that she was looking for something better than him, and she just settled. This seems to support your view Victory.

But...

Rollo... I sense she's buying time. And knows full well that I'm there waiting in the wings so to speak. Like a kid sampling the candy in the candy store, but never buying anything because she is full before she gets to the counter to pay.

I hope I've made sense.

Once again, thanks all for your insights. They've opened my eyes..

STORMCLOUD
 

Rollo Tomassi

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STORMCLOUD said:
I would say I am emotionally more stable, financially secure, mature and definitely more comfortable with myself than this guy. I am a man compared to this boy. She even indirectly brought it up that she was looking for something better than him, and she just settled.
The end of my quote was this:

Rollo Tomassi said:
It's the ideal situation for ANY woman, she can guiltlessly fvck her cute (but Jerk) boyfriend, while you (the Nice Guy) make up for his deficits while you blab away for hours hoping that one day she'll see what a great guy you 'really' are.
This is the opperative here. You are making up for another guy's deficits. He'll handle the bending her over the kitchen table and riding her to glory part of things and you can handle her 'Phone Friend', be more mature, emotionally and financially stablility needs. As long as you're OK with him fvcking her, I suppose it's all good then 'eh?

You cannot negotiate attraction. No amount of 'proving" to her what a great boyfriend you'd make will make her attracted to you. At this point you're no longer a mystery to her, but she'll gladly fvck the other guy because she's constantly qualifying herself to him and he keeps her in a state of sexual anxiety. She doesn't have to work for your attention, Mr. Reliable, because it's a given, she's never had to earn it so it's worthless - she has to work for the other guy's attention, therefore it's a commodity. Increased value through scarcity.

STORMCLOUD said:
I sense she's buying time. And knows full well that I'm there waiting in the wings so to speak.
She's got all the time in the world so long as you and this guy collectively play along to make the ideal boyfriend for her. And how twisted are you to accept a "waiting in the wings status"? Who the fvck is the PRIZE. you or her? Follow this to it's logical end; even if she broke it off with him or he with her, would you really think she was all that into you knowing you're her second choice? How would you feel about being in an LTR with a woman whom you KNOW would bend over backwards (literally) for a guy like this and keep going back for more?

How old is this girl anyway? This is highschool drama sh!t in the extreme.

Stop frustrating yourself and find a girl that's into you 100%.
 

Victory Unlimited

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Yo Stormcloud,


What you are dealing with here is a drama queen. I believe ALL women to a certain extent are drama queens. And again I say that most ALL women don't let go of one guy until they are sure that the next guy they're trying grab ahold of is an upgrade compared to what they already have.

There are exceptions yes, but I believe that THIS is the rule.

The only questions are: How much drama are you willing to put up with? Is the woman's better qualities worth the drama you'd have to deal with once you have her? If you answer those two questions for yourself, I believe your next moves will be far more clear.

Should you immediately spin more quality plates? I say "YES", without a doubt. I see nothing nothing but positivity in having better options. But what are the two most important words in my last two sentences?

"quality" and "better".

So no, just spinning "more" plates is not an adequate option for some of us soldiers here who are enlisted in the Sosuave army of DJs. Plate spinning is wonderful indeed, but I, and maybe you too, am one of those guys that has some very specific tastes and exacting standards when it comes to the women I choose to attract.

I don't find the type of women that really interest me EVERY day. I have to really go out and sarge big time before I can even run across them. With my work, life, hobbies, and other obligations, my sarging is usually limited to cold approaches as I go about my day. Other than that, I have to set apart time on some weekends dedicated to JUST going out and finding where these women are.

So therefore, I feel you when you say that even when you have several plates, ONE keeps rising to the top. One ALWAYS does. That's the underlying point to having better options. Unless you really want to be a bachelor or PUA all your life, you eventually want to meet a woman WORTH being exclusive with.

That's why it's important to get out and keep finding QUALITY women. What is a quality woman? Any woman that really piques YOUR interest.

If you only get numbers from babes "just to get numbers from babes", then THOSE babes will NEVER be able to compete with a potential ONE-ITIS babe when it comes to holding your interest.

Those babes will ONLY serve as a very TEMPORARY distraction from the pain of having oneitis. And just like any other weak @ss painkiller...these substandard babes will "wear off". And then you'll be in MORE pain than you were before. Read this again.

That's why I said to make THIS particular babe "put up or shut up" as soon as YESTERDAY. WhY? Because with a drama queen, what you want to do is create even more drama for her by FORCING a crisis. So when you do, she'll either "put out" or you can tell her to "get out." lol

That way, this situation will be brought to a head. No more guessing games. No more emotional tampon applications. And no more wasting of your time. Why? Because her true intentions toward you will be made known. And your view of her will then be clear and definite. No more "clouds" Stormcloud. lol

You will finally have a sense of CLOSURE. And while you're STILL out hunting trying to find some quality plates that are better than her, there's nothing like having a sense of closure to help you put her @ss behind you.





March on.






Peace...one day.
 

WestCoaster

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The Art of Walking Away

One thing that I struggle with as do most here is the art of walking away. We want some sense of closure, when really there is no reason to get any finality.

As noted, I'll probably always be a DJIT (DJ In Training) as ridding myself of a lifetime of AFC training has been tough. Even just recently I didn't perfect the art of walking away. I thought I was hitting it off with a gal I'd met, later on down the road she told me she had a boyfriend.

I was ready to bail but just before I left for Hawaii for a conference she gave me this spiel about how (long time) boyfriend was an a-hole, treated her like dirt, and that she "needed to deal with it, and was going to break up with him" and so forth. I thought, hmm, I think I'm in the picture here.

When I was in Hawaii, she sent me e-mails saying she missed me, couldn't wait till I got back, blah, blah, blah, bullsh-t, bullsh-t, bullsh-t. If Rollo T. lived in my town, he rightfully would've kicked my a$$ for being so stupid.

I came back all hopeful, instead I got the "all I can be is friends right now" ... meaning, boyfriend was never really going to be out of the picture. Comfort -- even if it's being treated-like-crap comfort -- is often better than the challenge of a new boyfriend. People on this board REALLY need to learn this.

I thought: I'm better than dirtbag bf, I have a nice job, dress well, wouldn't treat women like he treats her (or so she says), and have dated outstanding women, so I'll get her.

Nope (and this is how it relates to this post -- finally) ... I needed to walk away the first second I heard she had a bf (that was date four by the way).

I broke many-a-DJ rule on this. Women don't see the light, they go to what's comfortable and you CANNOT change them or their belief about bf, no matter how bad they say they allegedly are. They have to want to move on to another guy, and 9 times out of 10 they'll stay with the old bf, even if he's a total jerk.

So your duty as a DJ is to walk away. No need for closure, no need for any of that psycho-babble. Walk away, date others immediately, and get the f' on with your life. I eventually walked away and it was a freeing feeling ... the problem is that I waited too long.

Half of the problems on this board could be solved if the men here would walk away and not try to change the women, solve things, or come to some kind of closure. Take back your masculinity and walk away.
 

DJDamage

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Rollo Tomassi said:
You're playing Surrogate Boyfriend here; she gets alll of the loyalty, respect, dedication, communication, sensitivity, self-sacrifice, etc.that the 'perfect boyfriend' can offer with absolutely no expectations of reciprocating intimacy in any way. It's the ideal situation for ANY woman, she can guiltlessly fvck her cute (but Jerk) boyfriend, while you (the Nice Guy) make up for his deficits while you blab away for hours hoping that one day she'll see what a great guy you 'really' are. It's analogous to a guy having a Fvck Buddy, all sex with no expectations or reciprocating anything more emotional. Ergo, you are this woman's Intellectual Wh0re, or Emotional Tampon if you prefer.
I needed to hear that advice 4 years ago!, great breakdown Rollo.

As for the original poster, there is nothing more then I can contribute other then the lesson in this clip:
http://www.gkko.com/videos/2891/unlucky-nerd/
 

Sinistar

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I am in total agreement with Rollo-T & West on this one.

I let myself get wrapped around the axle in situation much like yours. At many points I could have just used distance and way less words yet I kept allowing myself to get more and more involved. Very much like buying more and more stock in a company that has a product I like (emotional investment) yet failing to realize the many obvious ******d signs that the same company is not good when it comes to business. When you've bought enough of that stock and it starts sliding, a overwhelming emotional investment will hinder your ability to use logic and you'll ride it to a bitter end (zero value, nothing in return). I fear that is what will happen to you in your situation if you continue on the same path.

Remember these few things because they'll either help you know what to do now or they'll be the severe b!tch slap to your ego you'll be regretting (and growing from) later:

1.) She never asked you to play the role you're playing did she? Your investing in her and she has comitted to no obligation or return value. If you keep it up long enough you will begin to "assume" some return on the investment and guess what - zilch. That's AFC savior/rescuer stuff at its worst.

2.) I believe normal healthy women (whom we should only seek) will have good healthy girlfriends and family and she'll be discussing her man troubles with them. If she's doing this with you, it calls out two major problems. First, she has zero desire for you and sees you in a very low risk, comfortable, predictable, quite FEMININE WAY. Second, she may very well be a clutch outcast / AW. In which case you're feeding her the AW crack she craves - a dude who listens, is the 'true' girlfriend she will never have and will never make a bold move for the pvssy.

...in her mind you are most likely that comfortable friend. To cross the boundary for her could be quite emotionally difficult. You've been Implicitly LJBF'd. Even if you manage the s3x (which will only seem amazing due to the duration of your desire) it won't last long and she'll most likley swing to another branch way before you even know it (or she'll swing back to the old one)

If you re-read your post 6 months from now you'll see just what we see. Unfortunately right now, your judgement is clouded. That is why you posted the question. What you didn't realize is that your inner-Alpha played a role in this by allowing you to post AFC rationalizations and analysis (ie giberish) so that other guys who've been burned will see it and help you see things in a more healthy way.

Or maybe we all have it wrong and "she's the one" and you are the therapist that she will madly fall in love with you after you save her.

You want to plant seeds. Plant seeds of doubt. Plant seeds of mystery. Plant those PRIZE seeds.
 

Victory Unlimited

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Yo Stormcloud,


When I speak of CLOSURE. I define it in very specific terms.

The dictionary defines CLOSURE as the perception of incomplete situations as though they were complete. This perception is acheived by ignoring the missing parts or by compensating for them by projection based on past experience.

The Victory Unlimited Translation:

CLOSURE is an inner sense that a situation or process is finished----from YOUR point of view. This is done by taking into account the evidence that you DO see, and by extrapolating the obvious conclusion based on your, or somebody else's similar past experiences.

Or as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's most popular character "Sherlock Holmes" would say:

"Once you've eliminated the possible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable---is the solution!"

Make no mistake. My defiiniton of closure is not based on relying on a woman to "finally come clean and tell you the truth".

No, it instead depends upon YOUR actions, and subsequently YOUR educated and intuitive interpretation of the results of YOUR actions.
Therefore, your CLOSURE does not come from some woman giving it to you.

And, your CLOSURE does not come from any one of us on a message board telling you when it's time for you to give up on your pursuits.

No, your CLOSURE comes from YOU making a quality decision internally that a particular situation is finished.

In short, your CLOSURE comes from YOU.



March on.

Or as has been said...walk away.





Peace...one day.
 

grinder

Master Don Juan
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Stormcloud:

You deserver better. Go get some. They are their, they are waiting. They don't know it, yet. You can get them.

Please do not waste your time with bit*ches that don't show high interest. Stop thinking so much. You will never figure them out. They are an alien species that we like: lots. But they speak a differnet language.

The DJ rules are clear: If you have to work for them, change yourself for them, placate them, submit to them, be a wuss for them, then NEXT them. NO Exceptions.

grinder
 

Rollo Tomassi

Master Don Juan
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DJDAMAGE: That movie is priceless! It's now in the Tomassi data archive, thanks.
 

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Put away your credit card.

You can now read our detailed guide to women and dating for free - Right Here!

STORMCLOUD

Don Juan
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Okay Here's an update..

I decided I was going to take all of your advice and attempt to apply the principles as best as I could. I've tried to stay away and avoid using this site as a game enhancer. It hasn't been easy. What I have learned through searching is I'm dealing with a full blown AW (by the way she has a bf, but was very good at giving the impression he was on the outs).She has all the ******d signs.

Over the last few weeks, I've managed to really focus on the job and avoid as much interaction with her as possible. FYI - we work for the same company, which I understand is a big no no... Basically the contact has dropped off, but when I slip by e-mailing her I minimize how long we communicate. This isn't about playing hard to get but just trying to get my head on straight.

There have been times when she's seen me speaking to another female at which time she will put the full court press on. She becomes jealous. She will call, e-mail and even show up at my desk to talk. And then she will disappear as if no big deal.

With no communication for a good week she shows up yesterday asking for a favor. nothing big. Afterwards, I get an e-mail. Then a phone call with very seductive sexual undertones during work. She also told me to pissss her bf off she told him she was calling me. WTF!!!! I told her I was only going to speak with her in a professional manner at work, which seemed to have worked.

There were two instances where I've been disrespected by her, and this actually reinforced my desire to move on. Today she played her little game, which I'm getting tired of.... It seems she will pull out stops to get me to move towards her and now when I've started to move away she has gotten more aggressive. Is this typical? Basically I put it on the line and told her she was taking advantage of our friendship and she was being a tease, which she got very angry. She said how can I say that.. It was all bs and she has been honest with me from the start. I think she gave me canned retort to my calling her out on her behavior. I don't want bad blood, but I told her we can't be so hot and cold with each other. The drama's got to stop. The funny thing I notice about the AW is her unwillingness to venture into deeper conversation about anything.

The hardest part is fighting off those feelings. I have a lot going on in my life and sometimes part of my emotions go unprotected. I do know over time, she doesn't appear as attractive or appealing to me. There is something about her that attracts me. Something very raw. Maybe subconscious? I don't know.. I think if I can figure that out, it will allow me to break free and also deal with any future women in the same manner.

I'm trying to figure it out because I want to avoid situations like this again. It's more of an addiction to the emotion rather that her. Does that make sense.

By the way i am spinning plates and am talking to a wonderful person who is quite the opposite. However, the excitement the AW provides can't be matched. I admit I'm still attracted to her but I am walking away from her. However, it isn't that easy. Thanks.
 

DJDamage

Master Don Juan
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STORMCLOUD said:
It seems she will pull out stops to get me to move towards her and now when I've started to move away she has gotten more aggressive. Is this typical?
Yes it is. She had you wrapped around her little finger and now when you decided to ignore her, you became a challange and it frustrate's her that you don't follow her rules and continue to be her emotional tampon.

STORMCLOUD said:
Basically I put it on the line and told her she was taking advantage of our friendship and she was being a tease, which she got very angry. She said how can I say that.. It was all bs and she has been honest with me from the start. I think she gave me canned retort to my calling her out on her behavior. I don't want bad blood, but I told her we can't be so hot and cold with each other. The drama's got to stop. The funny thing I notice about the AW is her unwillingness to venture into deeper conversation about anything.
One thing to know about AW's (and some women for that matter) is that trying to talk logic with them is like talking to them in another language which they don't understand. You also realise that this woman probably never matured passed the age of 12 and thus acting like a child when things don't go her way. Don't think of it as a relationship between two adults but rather see it as a relationship between an adult to a child. Treat her like you would a child, don't take anything she says seriously or talk to her seriously and if she crosses the line then scoof at her like you would a child and say with a mature heavy tone to stop with this already. Then again all hell could break loose in the office if she gets angry enough to seek revenge.

DJD
 
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