Counterproductive tropes/beliefs/ideologies

[Grounded eagle]

I think it's exaggerated. The idea that everyone has to become some kind of an arsehole that is rude and selfish and thinks far too much of themselves because of the belief that women like men like that. People take on that idea and start acting like complete diks to everyone just to prove how "alpha" they are, which only makes them unpleasant to be around.

When you put it that way, I do agree with you. I have always viewed them as nothing more than terms to describe two different types of men, and I do think that most guys oversimplify what they mean and what they each consist of.

 

[Grounded eagle]

Advice from the old lady:

Some observations I would offer, having been here for approaching 6 years, are these:

1. Mistaking intent. As noted eloquently above by @FlexpertHamilton intent, or the “Why” you do something is so critical that it’s importance really cannot be overstated. Existing in an authentic way requires your intent to be congruent with your actions. So if you have a hobby, let’s say golf, you should pursue golf because you enjoy golfing as a primary rationale. Yes it has professional networking benefits in certain circles, yes you might meet a sporty girl who enjoys golf, but those are byproducts of you happening to do something you enjoy. If you were to golf strictly for the networking or dating benefits your whole aura becomes contrived to a degree and people sense this. Golf in that case is a means to an end and this makes others wary. So intent must be authentic.

2. AWALT: No. Not all women are like that. Now before this starts a firestorm allow me to explain. There are great women out there. Most of them are taken already and locked down in a marriage or LTR. So you might not really understand that great women exist or how they behave “in the wild”.

Behavior runs on a continuum from Best/Most ideal to Worst/Intolerable. Open your eyes to behaviors (always rooted in interest level or lack thereof) and pass judgement accordingly. DO NOT give low interest women your valuable time!

A woman who is into you is going to want to sex you up at least on demand and possibly more than that. If she doesn’t want to jump your bones all the time she isn’t red hot about you. Or she has serious issues and hang-ups. Now. If her serious issues and hang ups are rooted in inexperience you have a unique opportunity to mold her into your custom lover. Otherwise it’s either low interest, resource seeking, or something else other than genuine desire for you. Pick a woman who wants you physically and lots of the other issues often complained about here lessen or never surface.

So many posts here arise out of trying to persuade a low interest chick to like a man she’s ho-hum about. Nope. Next these chicks & reserve your time for women who desire you.

3. It’s just your turn: This one comes from the jadedness that comes once the constant pursuit of the conquest has lost its appeal and women become more and more physically interchangeable, which WILL happen after a man has had enough meaningless sex. Men lament the inability of a w h o re to bond but newsflash: this also happens to men. It’s Nihilism in action, and it depresses men when they realize pursuit of the conquest is just like any other dopamine producing pleasure seeking behavior. It is addictive and can leave a man emotionally bereft. That means empty.

The human need for emotional fulfillment gets left out a fair bit around here, but I attribute this to the natural bias toward emptiness and pain that brings men into this community in the first place. The wonderful irony is that there are men here who are successful and well adjusted/calibrated to women. I don’t think enough weight is given to their voices.

If you pay attention to any poster’s content you will learn a great deal about that person’s perspective, values, and beliefs. Be mindful of who you listen to. We all become what we believe.

Cheers

I agree with your first point,but I disagree with the second.Not too sure about the third.Regarding the second, I do agree,there are probably good women out there.But they are so rare that it is detrimental to a man to go out there and act like he will find one.The chances of finding such a woman are so statistically insignificant that it is unhealthy to think you will.The state of society today doesn’t help either.(Won’t beat that drum,we all know what I’m on about.) I came to the conclusion that AWALT because I genuinely believe that for the most part that is their natural state.It is not rational,it doesn’t make sense,but they will say one thing and do another.And these days?They don’t even bother covering it up. I was having a conversation about marriage with my sister and mother a couple years ago.These were my blue pilled days,so there I was arguing the case for love and all that Disney crap being the backbone of a strong marriage. I was laughed out of the room.They were talking about a man’s monetary resources,saying,”Love doesn’t pay the bills. You can’t buy expensive things with love,etc.”It is more prudent,it makes more sense for a man to believe that AWALT.About the third point,the very first time I heard the phrase,”It’s just your turn,”,I heard it from a girl.Not a guy.Granted,it could just be that she happened to be young and in her party years,but if most of them are thinking that way at that age,then by default is it not just most guys turn until said girls hit the wall and find find someone to settle down with? I don’t know,I could be wrong,but that’s the way it looks to me.

 

[BeExcellent]

@Grounded eagle you are young and the world is your oyster. As you experience life your perspective will evolve and change. Do your best to keep objective about things and see things as they really are. But be mindful that your belief system (whatever it is) is going to color and bias your view to some degree.

Your mother and sister are pragmatic about relationships. They are pragmatic before they are romantic. Many women share that view. I do not. I believe (and was raised) that it is my job to look after myself, not to look for some man to depend on. That is a double edge sword. But it allows me (since I am self reliant) the freedom to chose men for whom I have attraction & desire as the highest priority. Women like your mother & sister do not have desire as the highest priority…desire may be well down the list. They want to depend financially on a man. Many women do. But not all.

Just keep your eyes open and keep objective. Sometimes you stumble across something or someone you did not expect.

 

[Howiestern]

What do you guys think the most counterproductive tropes are in the manosphere today?

Black and white rules applied to every girl. Learn to calibrate to each girl for the greatest chances with intended targets. But first Learn to read people, figure out the personality types, and you can steer the conversation your direction every time.

 

[Grounded eagle]

Thinking that women are stupid.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Thinking that women are stupid.

I don't think it. I believe it.

 

[Grounded eagle]

I don't think it. I believe it.

There’s a big difference between irrational and stupid.

 

[Plinco]

People's attitudes

I've noticed an attitude that was not very present in the 2000's that I have noticed a lot on here since I came back in 2019, that people are more negative. It's like they focus on eliminating negatives than thinking about what could be and seeing the world as something they could have. It's like the ambition has been sucked out of people.

 

[Grounded eagle]

People's attitudes

I've noticed an attitude that was not very present in the 2000's that I have noticed a lot on here since I came back in 2019, that people are more negative. It's like they focus on eliminating negatives than thinking about what could be and seeing the world as something they could have. It's like the ambition has been sucked out of people.

Too much cynicism and negativity. I agree.

 

[HaleyBaron]

There’s a big difference between irrational and stupid.

Is there?

 

[BeExcellent]

Is there?

Yes. The main thing being that irrationalness comes and goes. It can be managed. Stupid is forever and there is no managing or improving it.

Some of the most cunning things people do are borne of irrational behavior.

By both men and women.

 

[Poonstra]

Thinking that women are stupid.

I agree, this is a dangerous belief. It sets you up for failure.

 

[Grounded eagle]

Is there?

Women wouldn’t get their way so much if they were stupid.Even if half of the things they do don’t make sense.

 

[Grounded eagle]

Turning forums such as these into a comfort zone instead of getting out there and making things happen.

 

[HaleyBaron]

Women wouldn’t get their way so much if they were stupid.Even if half of the things they do don’t make sense.

It just means the guys are stupid for playing their stupid games. The moment they don't, a woman's tactics and behavior is no more complex than a child's.

 

[FlexpertHamilton]

Thinking that women are stupid.

Women occupy the meat of the bell curve in regards to IQ, they don't vary much at the extremes, so it's quite rare to find a women who is stupid. Most women are naive, solipsistic, and irrational though. Big difference.

 

[Grounded eagle]

It just means the guys are stupid for playing their stupid games. The moment they don't, a woman's tactics and behavior is no more complex than a child's.

This is an ignorant statement.

 

[B80]

I don't get why some guys want to completely give up on women while they do self improvement, you don't need to be a buddhist monk to improve your life.

Depends on level of self improvement. If you're working full time and trying to get a business going in your own time, or studying, plus have kids from previous relationships, exercise a few times a week etc it can be counter productive/difficult to date.

All of the above, means dating is way down priority list. May be different if you don;t have kids, but providing for my daughter and her future as well as I can is a much bigger motivator than getting laid for me.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I think the reason is that pursuing women is very distracting from one's career goals, at least in my experience.

Yes many men felt pursuing women drained their energy and focus and was detrimental to growth.

 

[HaleyBaron]

This is an ignorant statement.

How so?