Constructive Discussions

[Fruitbat]

Yo,

Really been struggling with this one.

My other half is often disappointed with life and whinges about things (as women do) from time to time.

She wants a better job and more social life etc. So, I sit down and calmly discuss how I can help her.

Generally, she jumps around from idea to idea and the more I focus on the actual next step to moving forward (like doing CV, looking st courses) then she dodges to the next thing and avoids.

She then goes to clearly over-ambitious things (like some guy who set up a multi million pound chain of restaurants) she read online, or says she wants to move to America or go travelling to “get ideas”

Is this just typical millennial women who have no idea about how the world works? Is this common?

I have no idea how to help her. She gets literally upset the closer I get to setting a plan up. Often she gets pretty childish.

I remember being like this when I was young and had zero confidence. When I thought that I didn’t want to take the regular road and some giant golden egg would appear on my lap, if I wanted it bad enough.

Any advice on getting through this to some mature discussions?

Cheers

 

[thelad]

I think its code for you to earn more money for her. the reason she got upset is cos you are planning for her to do more work that she clearly doesn't want to do. It is simple as that.

just tell her Ive shown you what you can start with but its up to you to do the rest without your help. but she sure as fvck wouldn't do it for you.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Men are logical so they would deduce that when a woman is talking about her problems it is because she wants help fixing them. Right? Wrong. As illogical as it is, that is not what women want when they talk about their problems. I understand that makes zero sense to men. Regardless, sooner you understand that, the happier you both will be.

It is not that women don't want your help solving their problems. It's that unless she has specifically asked for it, she is not talking about it right then, because she actually wants to focus on solving it. (I get that does not make sense either. I am just reporting how it is.)

They are talking about it, to relieve internal tension, to empty out so to speak.

 

[Atom Smasher]

They get all this nonsense from the media. This is the result of the Land of Discontent that is slowly consuming women and feminized men.

As @LiveYourDream says, women do not think internally about issues and then talk about them for further information as we do. Instead the talking is the actual thinking process. So they expect us to listen without offering solutions.

This is the nightmare that we men must face. We see it as them wallowing in their problems. It is so painful, beyond belief, to sit there and listen to women talking things through.

My women barely does this at all, thank God. I only wish I had a solution for you. I hope someone chimes in with some good advice.

 

[Fruitbat]

Agreed atom smasher it is painful, my solution finding just seems to infuriate her.

It makes one feel like your woman has been so insulated in life she can just wallow around not taking action. I felt if I had that approach I would have achieved nothing in life.

I wonder if I should just make her plans myself and get her to do it. Yet when I’ve tried, my plans are too unambitious because they involve a couple of years learning something instead of intangible and unrealistic ideas (like setting up a health food chain or some similar idea in which neither of us have contacts or experience)

Perhaps once every 2 months I get this. She will be really difficult for no reason. Sleeping on couch for some fabricated BS for some minor fault. Then it’s gone in a day.

Unfortunately this has been my general experience of womankind for many a year. Unfathonable emotional instability. No logic.

I’m learning to just get on with life and ignore it.

A friend who is resigned to being forever single despite all his hopes disclosed that he found this in all his relationships and just got out. It did make me laugh, as I found the same. My resignation is just that this is the fundamental essence of woman, and if you don’t want it, be single!

 

[LiveYourDream]

(This is geared more for keeping LTR's happy)

Women talk about problems and meaningless stuff because, without even knowing it, the process of talking about it (not finding a solution I know more illogic.) allows them to decompress, in the moment. They will feel LOTS better afterwards.

Ever notice how a woman can talk and talk and talk and then she remarks how she feels better. No solutions were even discussed and she'll feel better. It's weird I know. It's how women are wired.

What to do? Take off your fix it hat. Imagine you are holding a garbage can. She just needs to get all that stuff out of her. Nod your head, acknowledge it, just let it come out of her and go into the garbage can. Not time to try to fix it. That gets in the way of her just getting it out.

She'll hit a point when she's just done. She feels LOTS better. Nothing was resolved. No solutions were decided upon. She just got it all out of her, into that imaginary garage can. (Don't share that.) She will super appreciate that you listened and she will feel enlivened because was able to "get it all out!" She feels lighter every way afterwards!

Again, I did not say resolve any problems. That is for problem resolving time. That is different. Trying to resolve anything when she is just needing to empty out will only create tension and serious irritation. It makes it harder for her to just get it all out. If you want a happier woman, consider just patiently holding the can and let her get all that stuff out and into the can. Unless she asks for your thoughts, let everything she says, go into the can.

What to do: Be present with her, hold the imaginary garbage can, let her talk. Even ask her, "What else?" She will talk and talk fill it till she is suddenly done. There is nothing left, at the moment. She will suddenly feel lighter and happier and better because she got it all out. She'll tell you so. She will be really appreciative. Simply put down the garbage can and move on. Makes no sense I know. That's a woman. Consider it a win that you could make her happy, even if how, makes no sense to you. In the end she connects suddenly feeling happier feeling, TO YOU.

Is it annoying? Certainly. Does it help your woman feel better? Tremendously. Does it make sense? No. She is a woman.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Personally, I think they can be trained out of it. I have told girlfriends before to stop complaining and wallowing. I told them to go cry to your girlfriends all you want, but that is not my role and I will not have it.

That has worked for me in the past. It might be rough at first, but I think it's an outrage that women think they can dump all their troubles on us, then hold it against us for offering solutions because we care about them.

F that noise. We are not dumping grounds. That doesn't mean to never listen to her. But if a woman is going on and on about the same thing repeatedly, I'm going to tell her she's being a crybaby and she needs to sh!t or get off the pot. I'm not her therapist. I'm her man.

 

[thelad]

Personally, I think they can be trained out of it. I have told girlfriends before to stop complaining and wallowing. I told them to go cry to your girlfriends all you want, but that is not my role and I will not have it.

That has worked for me in the past. It might be rough at first, but I think it's an outrage that women think they can dump all their troubles on us, then hold it against us for offering solutions because we care about them.

F that noise. We are not dumping grounds. That doesn't mean to never listen to her. But if a woman is going on and on about the same thing repeatedly, I'm going to tell her she's being a crybaby and she needs to sh!t or get off the pot. I'm not her therapist. I'm her man.

They also use it against you as well. its like plausible deniability because you involved yourself in her situation/problem. Ive been there. A total mine field Atom is right tell her your red lines and she will stop her BS. feck that crying ****.

 

[LiveYourDream]

I absolutely agree, it is best when women empty out, with other woman. When a women has a lot of internal tension that is unresolved and she is not herself, simply holding the garbage can, so to speak, and just letting her get it out, will make for a much happier home. It's not about being her therapist or getting involved in what is being said. It's simply holding the can and being present, so she can get it all out and feel lighter and happy again.

 

[Spaz]

I'd listen and then lead my women on to find the answer THAT she already knows.

Example..

She : bla bla bla...

Me : What do you think is the problem ?

She : Bla bla bla x10

Me : (nod my head and offer her a calm smile) What type of resources do you think you'll need to resolve it ?

She : (starts to think and offer a multitude of solutions) bla bla bla bla

Me : (nod my head and smile) If you have all the resources, how long would it take to resolve it ?

She : (starts to feel happier, smile, brighten up, become more calmer etc) bla and bla.

Me : You always amaze me.

The end.

And she will be truly happy with you amazed by the whole episode - which in all honesty is quite amusing for me.

 

[ubercat]

Go along with everything she says. The next idea is to make biodynamic yoghurt while living in a yurt in Kazakhstan. Sit online with her and start picking out yurts. It will have all changed by tomorrow. my rule is I only pay serious attention if they're still talking about something three days later

 

[ubercat]

And seriously mate when are you going to read the owners manual. Practical female psychology for the practical man.

 

[lamath]

Men are logical so they would deduce that when a woman is talking about her problems it is because she wants help fixing them. Right? Wrong. As illogical as it is, that is not what women want when they talk about their problems. I understand that makes zero sense to men. Regardless, sooner you understand that, the happier you both will be.

It is not that women don't want your help solving their problems. It's that unless she has specifically asked for it, she is not talking about it right then, because she actually wants to focus on solving it. (I get that does not make sense either. I am just reporting how it is.)

They are talking about it, to relieve internal tension, to empty out so to speak.

From my experience this is right on point.
Men are problem oriented women a
Usualy are not


From Rollos blog

Women enjoy the communication more than the information being transferred. It’s not a problem to be solved, it’s the communication that’s primary.

 

[samspade]

Agree with the others, don't systematically try to solve her problems or draw a map for her. Let her vomit her problems, if not to you then to her girlfriends.

She sounds like she's afraid to identify or admit what it is she'd really like to do with her life right now - but that's for her to determine, not you.

 

[Fruitbat]

Right, but how much sense does that make? What on earth does communication do other than solve a problem?

Here are all my problems. How does talking about that do anything if it doesn’t lead anywhere? What benefit does the communication have in itself? Nothing!

Seriously, is it like kids? Where you have to pat them on the head and say “dear me, what a terrible time you’ve had”

What evolutionary aspect does that serve other than piss people who ARE trying to get on with their lives solve?

Is it any wonder men earn more and have higher status?

Ironically, on the few occasions in life (divorce, loss of job, health problems, death in family) I’ve actually needed to talk to someone, I found women getting severely frustrated and the whole “be a god damn man” type vibe comes out. Nobody likes a man talking about emotions. Not other men and certainly not women.

This is where when you hear “women are just as competent at x y z than men” on the tv and you start to think “have any of these people actually had a wife or a GF and seen how destructive their emotional states are to everyone and everything?”

It’s almost like they sabotage anything good and harmonious as quickly as they can with pointless and irrelevant needs, requests and whims. Which change all the time based on mood.

 

[AJ84]

Right, but how much sense does that make? What on earth does communication do other than solve a problem?

Here are all my problems. How does talking about that do anything if it doesn’t lead anywhere? What benefit does the communication have in itself? Nothing!

Seriously, is it like kids? Where you have to pat them on the head and say “dear me, what a terrible time you’ve had”

What evolutionary aspect does that serve other than piss people who ARE trying to get on with their lives solve?

Is it any wonder men earn more and have higher status?

Ironically, on the few occasions in life (divorce, loss of job, health problems, death in family) I’ve actually needed to talk to someone, I found women getting severely frustrated and the whole “be a god damn man” type vibe comes out. Nobody likes a man talking about emotions. Not other men and certainly not women.

This is where when you hear “women are just as competent at x y z than men” on the tv and you start to think “have any of these people actually had a wife or a GF and seen how destructive their emotional states are to everyone and everything?”

It’s almost like they sabotage anything good and harmonious as quickly as they can with pointless and irrelevant needs, requests and whims. Which change all the time based on mood.

Then dump her and be single. Problem solved

 

[Fruitbat]

Then dump her and be single. Problem solved

That’s the easy way out. It’s either win or suicide

 

[AJ84]

That’s the easy way out. It’s either win or suicide

People are giving you advice (LYD is right and Spaz’s approach is good because it uses motivational interviewing where you’re putting it back on her to figure it out, in a supportive way).

But you’re still complaining, so how it this different than what’s she doing to you lol.

Instead of saying women are destructive and thinking in ways that are only going to make you bitter towards her, try using some of the advice given here.

 

[ubercat]

Mate don't bag your woman. Learn how to manage her. You'll both be much happier.

 

[speed dawg]

Yo,

Really been struggling with this one.

My other half is often disappointed with life and whinges about things (as women do) from time to time.

She wants a better job and more social life etc. So, I sit down and calmly discuss how I can help her.

Generally, she jumps around from idea to idea and the more I focus on the actual next step to moving forward (like doing CV, looking st courses) then she dodges to the next thing and avoids.

She then goes to clearly over-ambitious things (like some guy who set up a multi million pound chain of restaurants) she read online, or says she wants to move to America or go travelling to “get ideas”

Is this just typical millennial women who have no idea about how the world works? Is this common?

I have no idea how to help her. She gets literally upset the closer I get to setting a plan up. Often she gets pretty childish.

I remember being like this when I was young and had zero confidence. When I thought that I didn’t want to take the regular road and some giant golden egg would appear on my lap, if I wanted it bad enough.

Any advice on getting through this to some mature discussions?

Cheers

There are no mature discussions with women. You should know this already.

I have noticed an air of arrogance around your posting lately, and it seems you've skipped over a few steps on your DJ journey. I don't mean to hate on you, I'm just giving you my honest opinion. It happens, it happened to me too. Just because you've accepted the red pill doesn't mean you don't have a ton of work to do.

What this woman is telling you is that she is not happy. You failed the sh*t test by entering her frame, and trying to solve her problem. By doing this, you covertly tell her that you don't have the answers. The correct answer is to simply listen to her and let you solve her own problems, similar to what Spooge said in post #10. Instead, she 'got' to you. She probably now has less confidence in you as a man.

That's my observation, take or leave it.