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Cold approach is beta game

SmoothSmooth

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Cold approach is too overt and direct - it communicates too much interest and that you think the girl is ‘above’ you. That’s why most cold approach doesn’t work.

If you are going to approach, it should be indirect and seem completely natural/spontaneous. It should be at an appropriate venue which makes you look high value (inaccessible) - a members club, an upscale bar, an expensive gym. The conversation shouldn’t feel like a pickup. It should seem that she was lucky to grab your attention. Ideally she gave IOI first. Getting the number should seem like an after thought to the process.

Cold approach sometimes works on girls aged 26 and over because it provides beta tingles. It appeals to her need for certainty of your attraction levels and potential provider instinct - after she spent her youth chasing more aloof guys.
It also appeals to foreign women with poor social circles that feel more vulnerable to competing for top tier men.
This is why most PUA’s get results from foreign women aged 26 and above. It has nothing to do with ‘game’. Just finding the right kind of girl.

It is low value behaviour, girls instinctly know that high value guys aren’t cold approaching (if you were getting girls hotter than her, you wouldn’t consider her special enough to approach - she would really have to work for your attention).

Calibrated night game is by far the most efficient way to meet women outside of social circle. It is socially acceptable and ‘normal’ to talk to new women at a night club or bar. Daygame/cold approach on the other hand is considered desperate. Doing the same thing at a bar (in a smooth, non needy and calibrated way) is way more high value, because the social understanding is that women go there to meet men.
She has also put more effort into her appearance. Approaching her when she’s out and about with little effort in her appearance just provides too much validation. She didn’t need to wear an expensive dress or do her hair to get your attention.
 

SW15

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I don't know if you can call in-person approaching beta because a lot of beta males don't have the guts to make in-person approaches. A lot of beta males are swipe and text monkeys. I agree on the need for calibration. There are times where I pass on making an approach because the woman isn't giving me enough of an indication of interest. I could approach, but it would likely be an approach of 30 seconds or less leading nowhere. I don't want to do that. Ideally, you want to get IOIs but Millennial and Gen Z women tend to be poor at signaling. Many of these women actually discourage approaches in some venues with their overreliance upon earbuds.

A lot of approaching doesn't work because often times the woman isn't receptive. She's already in a relationship in the most common reason for this and she's not looking to monkey branch. At most times, most women are in some sort of relationship.

Doing random approaches during the day is acceptable. The calibration with random day approaching is choosing the right venues. Choosing venues in singles dense areas in major metros where women have weaker social circles is the best positioning for success with that. Even when a man does that, it can often be difficult to make progress.

Night game is better for one night stands or casual sex than finding dates for extended relationships. Also, the pandemic has severly curtailed night game. In recent years, a lot of night venues have had crowds becoming more insular, meaning that people go to the night venue with their existing friends and aren't that open to meeting new people. 10-15 years ago, I would have agreed more with the act of a woman showing up in a night venue as openness to meeting new people but less so now.
 

SmoothSmooth

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I don't know if you can call in-person approaching beta because a lot of beta males don't have the guts to make in-person approaches. A lot of beta males are swipe and text monkeys. I agree on the need for calibration. There are times where I pass on making an approach because the woman isn't giving me enough of an indication of interest. I could approach, but it would likely be an approach of 30 seconds or less leading nowhere. I don't want to do that. Ideally, you want to get IOIs but Millennial and Gen Z women tend to be poor at signaling. Many of these women actually discourage approaches in some venues with their overreliance upon earbuds.

A lot of approaching doesn't work because often times the woman isn't receptive. She's already in a relationship in the most common reason for this and she's not looking to monkey branch. At most times, most women are in some sort of relationship.

Doing random approaches during the day is acceptable. The calibration with random day approaching is choosing the right venues. Choosing venues in singles dense areas in major metros where women have weaker social circles is the best positioning for success with that. Even when a man does that, it can often be difficult to make progress.

Night game is better for one night stands or casual sex than finding dates for extended relationships. Also, the pandemic has severly curtailed night game. In recent years, a lot of night venues have had crowds becoming more insular, meaning that people go to the night venue with their existing friends and aren't that open to meeting new people. 10-15 years ago, I would have agreed more with the act of a woman showing up in a night venue as openness to meeting new people but less so now.
“a lot of beta males don't have the guts to make in-person approaches.”
This is the flawed logic used to sell the idea of daygame.
Women don’t care about your guts. Women care about your unavailability and aloofness. Displaying guts to attract a woman is beta in itself; you care too much and are willing to take risks just to talk to her. This goes against the principles of ‘lover’. Providers are the ones that protect, step up, take risks for a woman’s attention. Alphas don’t see her, they don’t give a damn and wont look twice. Betas will fight another man for looking at their girlfriend. They have the guts!! Alphas will just walk away.

Also, the idea that betas don’t have guts is also BS. A lot of angry loud men are betas. You realise most women end up marrying betas. How do you think these betas ask them out or propose without guts?

Alphas are proud men. Proud men do not expend their energy towards gaining another’s approval. This is why alphas are stoic, quiet and calm.

Beta game = you are good enough for me
Alpha game = you are not good enough for me

What do you think cold approach is?
 
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Pandora

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Cold approach is too overt and direct - it communicates too much interest and that you think the girl is ‘above’ you. That’s why most cold approach doesn’t work.

If you are going to approach, it should be indirect and seem completely natural/spontaneous. It should be at an appropriate venue which makes you look high value (inaccessible) - a members club, an upscale bar, an expensive gym. The conversation shouldn’t feel like a pickup. It should seem that she was lucky to grab your attention. Ideally she gave IOI first. Getting the number should seem like an after thought to the process.

Cold approach sometimes works on girls aged 26 and over because it provides beta tingles. It appeals to her need for certainty of your attraction levels and potential provider instinct - after she spent her youth chasing more aloof guys.
It also appeals to foreign women with poor social circles that feel more vulnerable to competing for top tier men.
This is why most PUA’s get results from foreign women aged 26 and above. It has nothing to do with ‘game’. Just finding the right kind of girl.

It is low value behaviour, girls instinctly know that high value guys aren’t cold approaching (if you were getting girls hotter than her, you wouldn’t consider her special enough to approach - she would really have to work for your attention).

Calibrated night game is by far the most efficient way to meet women outside of social circle. It is socially acceptable and ‘normal’ to talk to new women at a night club or bar. Daygame/cold approach on the other hand is considered desperate. Doing the same thing at a bar (in a smooth, non needy and calibrated way) is way more high value, because the social understanding is that women go there to meet men.
She has also put more effort into her appearance. Approaching her when she’s out and about with little effort in her appearance just provides too much validation. She didn’t need to wear an expensive dress or do her hair to get your attention.
You are right bro. But allow me to add this caveat. Cold approach works if the girl finds you very attractive. It also works better in some cities vs other cities. I think it has to do with socioeconomics and population density of that particular city.

But overall cold approach is highly inefficient and ineffective. But I have gotten some really good lays from cold approach in the past 5 yrs. But I am batting at maybe 5%.

Back in the early 2000s cold approach worked very well. This was pre social media.
 

SmoothSmooth

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You are right bro. But allow me to add this caveat. Cold approach works if the girl finds you very attractive. It also works better in some cities vs other cities. I think it has to do with socioeconomics and population density of that particular city.

But overall cold approach is highly inefficient and ineffective. But I have gotten some really good lays from cold approach in the past 5 yrs. But I am batting at maybe 5%.

Back in the early 2000s cold approach worked very well. This was pre social media.
How many of those cold approach lays were aged 18-24 and 8/10+ in looks?
It won’t work on the hottest girls…those girls are too obsessed with winning over an aloof mysterious man. The ultimate validation prize.
Early 2000s cold approach worked more because cultural climate was geared towards beta/romance and less towards alpha/tingles. People grew up on films like Titanic, the notebook etc and disney.
See my post about social media. It’s more about culture. Even music reflects this - songs like WAP and less love/romance songs than early 2000s. Social media didn’t change anything. Dating now is more about power games. It’s like chess. Never reveal your cards.
 
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BadBoy89

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Cold approach is too overt and direct - it communicates too much interest and that you think the girl is ‘above’ you. That’s why most cold approach doesn’t work.

It is low value behaviour, girls instinctly know that high value guys aren’t cold approaching (if you were getting girls hotter than her, you wouldn’t consider her special enough to approach - she would really have to work for your attention).
So a “high value” man wouldn’t chat up a hot 27 year old in an elevator and ask her out because he was getting hotter girls than her? How does that make any sense?

All a man should do is flirt with any girl he finds attractive and ask her out.
 

SmoothSmooth

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So a “high value” man wouldn’t chat up a hot 27 year old in an elevator and ask her out because he was getting hotter girls than her? How does that make any sense?

All a man should do is flirt with any girl he finds attractive and ask her out.
Beta smeta, alpha balpha. What works works. It's about results.
It doesn’t work period. You will spend 4 hours to get 1 mediocre lay. Much better being aloof and getting better lays by setting yourself as a prize. Those girls will also stick around longer because they’ll value you more. It’s all marketing and perception.

Where are those early 2000s puas now? They’re all finished. For a reason. Pua is dead. Naturals, DJ’s/musicians, club promoters, athletes get the hottest women by acting non-chalant.

Pua’s have to fly to East Europe and third world countries to display their ‘skillz’ meanwhile high value men have women knocking down their doors here.

You guys are running Windows 1999 software in todays world. Adapt.

“All a man should do is flirt with any girl he finds attractive and ask her out.” this is beta game and why your conversion ratio is so low with cold approach. There’s no tact in your method. An attractive girl with experience will not be intrigued. You shouldnt flirt with her just because you find her attractive. She needs to qualify herself beyond looks. Ignore her looks and you remove her power.
It’s simple. You flirt with her if she flirts with you first (shes earnt it by putting in effort). She will flirt with you when she feels you aren’t giving her attention. Then you flirt back.
 
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SW15

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cold approach is highly inefficient and ineffective.
I'd agree, even though I think approaching is better than app swiping.

Women don’t care about your guts.
There is something to this. There have been times where I have been treated poorly in approaching interactions. Situations like setting a future date and getting a woman's number after a fitness class. Subsequent to that, having her not respond to a text and flaking on the potential date. Getting that sort of treatment is no better than if I were some app swiping monkey. I thought I was approaching in person to avoid the worst behaviors from app swiping.

Also, the idea that betas don’t have guts is also BS. A lot of angry loud men are betas. You realise most women end up marrying betas. How do you think these betas ask them out or propose without guts?
Most men are betas so most women end up marrying betas. Many of the relationships are fostered by social circles. Betas do cold approach but often with alcohol in their systems. Approaching a woman during the day while stone cold sober is more difficult than with alcohol in your system at a bar.
 

GreatHornedOwl

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The problem with cold approaching is you are displaying interest in a woman who doesn't know you. At all. You are basically forcing her to make a decision about her romantic interest in a stranger she's never met before. Unless you have exceptionally good social skills and the women is very receptive, it's not going to work. Most women will give the number out so he goes away, and they will never see each other again. Another problem is that it subconsciously communicates that you don't have other women in your life, even if you do.

Let's say the woman is interested; the nerves of meeting up with someone they've known for 3 minutes will be too much and they will end up flaking.

The crux of the issue is the reason guys have to resort to cold approaching is because they don't know any women.
 

SW15

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The crux of the issue is the reason guys have to resort to cold approaching is because they don't know any women.
Correct. A man resorts to cold approaching when he can't make anything happen through his social circle. Sometimes, it isn't possible to have a viable social circle. I am 38 years old and while I have had friends, I've never had a social circle capable of getting me dates.


The problem with cold approaching is you are displaying interest in a woman who doesn't know you. At all. You are basically forcing her to make a decision about her romantic interest in a stranger she's never met before. Unless you have exceptionally good social skills and the women is very receptive, it's not going to work. Most women will give the number out so he goes away, and they will never see each other again. Another problem is that it subconsciously communicates that you don't have other women in your life, even if you do.

Let's say the woman is interested; the nerves of meeting up with someone they've known for 3 minutes will be too much and they will end up flaking.
I learned to not ask for a number number until a date idea has been proposed and accepted.

Yes, it is possible to do the ask out in 3 minutes. My approaches that lead to ask out are conversations typically ranging from 5-15 minutes. I have actually gotten an instanteous date from a cold approach before but that was an outlier type situation.

It is better to make an approach when you've gotten some indicators of interest inviting an approach. IOIs are becoming rarer. Women were better at body language signaling 15-20 years ago than they are now.

Let's remember that this board is called SoSuave. We are supposed to be so suave that our charisma leads to dates and sex from approaches.
 

Pandora

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How many of those cold approach lays were aged 18-24 and 8/10+ in looks?
It won’t work on the hottest girls…those girls are too obsessed with winning over an aloof mysterious man. The ultimate validation prize.
Early 2000s cold approach worked more because cultural climate was geared towards beta/romance and less towards alpha/tingles. People grew up on films like Titanic, the notebook etc and disney.
See my post about social media. It’s more about culture. Even music reflects this - songs like WAP and less love/romance songs than early 2000s. Social media didn’t change anything. Dating now is more about power games. It’s like chess. Never reveal your cards.
Yeh I agree. And most of the cold approach lays were girls 6/10 - 7/10 in looks. I have not banged many 8/10s ( if ever). So yeh it doesnt work on the hottest girls usually.
 

xuzaki

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Cold approach works. It's been working for many guys for a long time. But it's an art, and I can understand that someone might think it's a bad method depending on their experiences.

One can do a cold approach with an alpha or beta frame. But cold approach is not inherently beta.

At least several guys have achieved 100+ girls in a year through daytime cold approach.
 

SmoothSmooth

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Cold approach works. It's been working for many guys for a long time. But it's an art, and I can understand that someone might think it's a bad method depending on their experiences.

One can do a cold approach with an alpha or beta frame. But cold approach is not inherently beta.

At least several guys have achieved 100+ girls in a year through daytime cold approach.
I have met many women through cold approach, had many instant dates too. I still vouch that it is beta. Non of those women stuck around. Only one of those women was an 8+ (published model) but she was new to the country. On the other hand, women that I initially acted aloof with have stuck around for years. This is because they believe I am above their league and they got lucky.

Look around. Most guys cold approaching in the street are not high status men.

“ Another problem is that it subconsciously communicates that you don't have other women in your life, even if you do” this is huge and is also the reason online dating doesn’t work. It’s not because women have boyfriends or options, but because you are automatically disqualified by being so available and eager. Women like men already in relationships. Or men that don’t give them attention. That’s why they will come in your orbit when you are focused on lifting at the gym.

Most women do not ‘have boyfriends’ but cold approach would make you think they do. At work, about 50% of the girls are single. At college, it’s the same.

You say women are worse at giving IOI now but that is BS in my experience. If you have an aura of dominance and great fashion, women will open you, stare at you etc. Mainly at bars or at safe social situations like work/college, or sometimes the gym. They won’t do it on the street because they aren’t in the frame to meet someone.

Women don’t care how brave you are for approaching them in the cold. Why would it be brave? Being brave is fighting another man or going to war. If approaching a woman was ‘brave’ then women would be some kind of higher entity that require ‘courage’ to speak to. Plenty of guys speak to her at work, at bars etc with ease. Nothing brave about it, only in your mind. It just makes you socially confident: which is not a rare trait among adults.

“At least several guys have achieved 100+ girls in a year through daytime cold approach.“ yeah they banged girls below their SMV. Nothing special about that.
 
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SmoothSmooth

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Cold approach works. It's been working for many guys for a long time. But it's an art, and I can understand that someone might think it's a bad method depending on their experiences.

One can do a cold approach with an alpha or beta frame. But cold approach is not inherently beta.

At least several guys have achieved 100+ girls in a year through daytime cold approach.
Yeh I agree. And most of the cold approach lays were girls 6/10 - 7/10 in looks. I have not banged many 8/10s ( if ever). So yeh it doesnt work on the hottest girls usually.
Correct. A man resorts to cold approaching when he can't make anything happen through his social circle. Sometimes, it isn't possible to have a viable social circle. I am 38 years old and while I have had friends, I've never had a social circle capable of getting me dates.




I learned to not ask for a number number until a date idea has been proposed and accepted.

Yes, it is possible to do the ask out in 3 minutes. My approaches that lead to ask out are conversations typically ranging from 5-15 minutes. I have actually gotten an instanteous date from a cold approach before but that was an outlier type situation.

It is better to make an approach when you've gotten some indicators of interest inviting an approach. IOIs are becoming rarer. Women were better at body language signaling 15-20 years ago than they are now.

Let's remember that this board is called SoSuave. We are supposed to be so suave that our charisma leads to dates and sex from approaches.
The problem with cold approaching is you are displaying interest in a woman who doesn't know you. At all. You are basically forcing her to make a decision about her romantic interest in a stranger she's never met before. Unless you have exceptionally good social skills and the women is very receptive, it's not going to work. Most women will give the number out so he goes away, and they will never see each other again. Another problem is that it subconsciously communicates that you don't have other women in your life, even if you do.

Let's say the woman is interested; the nerves of meeting up with someone they've known for 3 minutes will be too much and they will end up flaking.

The crux of the issue is the reason guys have to resort to cold approaching is because they don't know any women.
 

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metalwater

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doesn't the cold approach give access to some different women that you will not meet the other ways? perhaps the ones that have a higher likely hood of being of higher character and less likely to continue looking.

do you consider it a cold approach if the girl is already eye-locked with you?
 

SmoothSmooth

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doesn't the cold approach give access to some different women that you will not meet the other ways? perhaps the ones that have a higher likely hood of being of higher character and less likely to continue looking.

do you consider it a cold approach if the girl is already eye-locked with you?
This shows the flaw in your seduction process. You want access to higher quality women. Women know this is the reason you are cold approaching.

It should be the other way round for a succesful seduction. She must feel you are someone she wouldn’t normally have access to. That your social circle more is valuable than hers. Not the other way around.

So you want to ensure that you meet in a way which conveys this. If you’re at an expensive members club or gym or cool exhibition, or studying at a university campus or friends wedding (where you have status as a groomsman) she may feel that you have more going on than her and be interested. But not on the street.

‘ do you consider it a cold approach if the girl is already eye-locked with you?’ go for it in this scenario. It is a rare scenario on the street, but you wouldn’t be beta for approaching. You would be more beta for ignoring. However don’t expect amazing results, some will eye lock just for attention.

PUA tells you that cold approach is being confident and therefore attractive. Men don’t show ‘social courage’ for women that are below their league. You’re not going to make grand gestures towards a girl you consider kinda unattractive. Displaying too much confidence is anti seductive because it shows you’re trying and therefore she’s above your league. Indifference > confidence/courage
Indifference is the most attractive trait not confidence
In the notebook and titanic the men make courageous gestures to win over the girl. This is hollywood ‘hero’ programming. It is a form of white knight - the ultimate dream for a woman looking for a provider. Cold approach is only ever successful if she interprets you as a provider with high interest - it has less to do with seduction and more to do with comfort.
 
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Pandora

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I have met many women through cold approach, had many instant dates too. I still vouch that it is beta. Non of those women stuck around. Only one of those women was an 8+ (published model) but she was new to the country. On the other hand, women that I initially acted aloof with have stuck around for years. This is because they believe I am above their league and they got lucky.

Look around. Most guys cold approaching in the street are not high status men.

“ Another problem is that it subconsciously communicates that you don't have other women in your life, even if you do” this is huge and is also the reason online dating doesn’t work. It’s not because women have boyfriends or options, but because you are automatically disqualified by being so available and eager. Women like men already in relationships. Or men that don’t give them attention. That’s why they will come in your orbit when you are focused on lifting at the gym.

Most women do not ‘have boyfriends’ but cold approach would make you think they do. At work, about 50% of the girls are single. At college, it’s the same.

You say women are worse at giving IOI now but that is BS in my experience. If you have an aura of dominance and great fashion, women will open you, stare at you etc. Mainly at bars or at safe social situations like work/college, or sometimes the gym. They won’t do it on the street because they aren’t in the frame to meet someone.

Women don’t care how brave you are for approaching them in the cold. Why would it be brave? Being brave is fighting another man or going to war. If approaching a woman was ‘brave’ then women would be some kind of higher entity that require ‘courage’ to speak to. Plenty of guys speak to her at work, at bars etc with ease. Nothing brave about it, only in your mind. It just makes you socially confident: which is not a rare trait among adults.

“At least several guys have achieved 100+ girls in a year through daytime cold approach.“ yeah they banged girls below their SMV. Nothing special about that.
Bro I agree with you. This coincides with my post where I say that women operate on the " I would never join a club that would have me as a member" model. I got a lot of kick back with that because people said oh this doesnt count because it was a street hooker. Yeh, but the same basic dynamics apply.

Many women need aloof men. They need to constantly feel like they are getting a guy higher than then. Women dont have an objective internal measure of what a high value man is. They look to society and how the man behaves to indicate if he is high value or not.

I asked my ex girlfriend why it was important that guys dont respond back quickly and she point blank told me " because you want to make sure that you are not getting a loser" ( or something to that effect).

Once they acquire your validation they literally have a visceral internal cringe. A switch happens now they secretly resent you because you are low value. Only being very good looking or very high status can stave this off......temporarily.

So yes cold approach WITHOUT IOI's does express much lower value. She has to find you HOT and then cold approach works. Because if you are hot that balances out the reduction in value by cold approaching.
 

stringpuller

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OP got some serious flaws in his thinking. Cold approach needs rebranded to something that generally means socially competent.
So yes cold approach WITHOUT IOI's does express much lower value.
Yes and a guy can get really in tune with girls around him that are interested. To the cashier you see regurlarly to the girl at whole foods.
Once they acquire your validation they literally have a visceral internal cringe. A switch happens now they secretly resent you because you are low value. Only being very good looking or very high status can stave this off......temporarily.
This i would say" when" LTR girls need comfort from time to time but overall i think you are right and this is deep biology in this.

Basic conversation skills are gold. Thats all there is to it.
 
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