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Avoid NLP, EFT, Subliminal Messages

everywomanshero

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These are just a few of the laundry list of "self help" therapies which have been proven ineffective in controlled studies. For a more complete list please see the url below.

Unfortunately, many people in the seduction community have became advocates of these "treatments'". Rather than admit that they experienced a placebo effect and retract previous statements, they continue to further the myth that these are valid systems for self-treatment. I am not saying you shouldn't try them, but that you should at least be aware that their effectiveness has been refuted by the scientific community based on the results of controlled studies.

Quackwatchl
 

MyNameIsEd

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NLP is for losers who can't attract girls with their wit, charm, and muscles.
 

ethnomethodologist

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NLP is a lie, it is as EWH said, a placebo.

I used to think NLP was real, before I started to realize that it was everything else I was doing that was special. I realized that there are "anchors' that are merely good memories.
 

Mad Banana

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Yes its garbage, and whats worse, people use it often instead of deeling with some deeper issues, and just build more crap on already crapy construction, masking stuff at best.

Why not build new solid construction, correct what is not right deep inside, even if it takes longer time its worth it, I know it from experience.
 

midnight

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I disagree, after listening to Anthony Robbins and reading books from gurus like Richard Bandler, it does wonders for my inner game. There are some very intersting case studies involving NLP that have worked. Who cares if it has been refuted by the scientific community especially if its function exisits outside of the scientific realm. I would say that it points toward being pseudo-science but many methods of pseudo-science are sworn to work. By reading works by Bandler I can honestly say I'm in a much happier state of mind. This does wonders for my game. D'Angelo mentioned going to a seminar by Bandler and said that Bandler picked up 25 numbers in one night. This was on the DD DVD. NLP however is NOT the magic pill to solve all problems. I do believe that it deserves the skepticism that it recieves because the question is often to believe or not believe. Believing in something has a profound effect on how something will work psychologically. But when ideas are presented in a way where there is a mental change in someone, and that person verifies the change, thats all the proof that is necessary. NLP, created from a doctor named Milton Erickson by John Grinder and Richard Bandler have experience in hypnosis. Milton Erickson is a well known guru of hypnosis because his techniques were proven to work. Anyways, I wont go on too much more but I do think NLP has some merit especially for inner game. What works is subjective for each person because not only are people different but in each others differences are different goals at heart. For any phenomena there are many ways to look at it. In becoming a Don Juan, NLP is one method which might help some people.
 

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Skydiver43127

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Since there is no scientific, objective proof to point NLP works at all, you have no way of knowing wheather what it does to you is what it is supposed to do. Your personal evaluation is irrelevent, since deluding yourself is a great part of NLP and similar practices. Even facts pointed by you (you get more girls ect.) will be irrelevent, since they will be out of context. (example - what does it matter that you get 25 phone numbers if none of them are the real ones?)
 

midnight

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Skydiver43127 said:
Since there is no scientific, objective proof to point NLP works at all, you have no way of knowing wheather what it does to you is what it is supposed to do.
NLP is a very general term because so many people out there don't practice it the way it was intended. NLP is very difficult to subject to scientifically because people who use it don't always use it correctly. It enables you to more deeply organize your goals, and become aware of associations that you have toward circumstances that are causal to negative psychological reactions. Ever hear of Pavlovs dog? That is ONE of many principals used in NLP that IS scientifically proven to have merit. Hypnotherapy is another one that is used in many cases in the psychiactric world. Often it is used as a last resort in cases where all the "Scientifically proven" stuff doesn't work. Yet at the end of the day people are loosing their insanity to become sane again. Big business uses it in their sales tactics with proven results... just check any scholarly business publication and see for yourself... As a science major myself, I have come to the realization that not everything in this world can be explained by science. As I've suggested before there is no magic potion to resolve any problem. But finally, if at the end of the day, if all NLP does is make me feel more confident in myself thats something I'll accept as working. Are there any scientifically proven results that in experiments that make women more attracted to men? I'd say any study on that is moot because the laws of attraction are such that attraction is highly subjective. This is a situation where science very much falls apart. Why do you think clinical and theorectial psychologists don't work together the same way medical doctors do??? It is because scientifically the human mind is something that we have barely scratched "the tip of the ice berg" with when it comes to science.

with that said I must also say that if you're going to read material, NLP is not something you should focus on too much. I do however believe that it is worthwhile to read a couple books on it with an open mind before criticizing it. I think it is a very interesting and mind expanding subject that many respectable and intelligent people endorse.
 

everywomanshero

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Hypnosis is a medically relevant practice. It is recognized and accepted as a valid technique when performed by a qualified person. Anchoring, as you mentioned Pavlov, was in all psychology textbooks before the term NLP ever existed. However, there are those who are making claims that hypnosis can do more than it actually can.

The problem for NLP is that many of its principles have been proven incorrect. Secondly, when scientifically valid studies were conducted the techiques often worked no better than a placebo effect. What the NLP community should do is review these studies. If they feel there is an error in administration, then address the specific problem in future studies. The evidence is stacking up against NLP rather than going the other direction. OTOH, Anthony Robbins is a great motivational speaker. His tapes are worth listening to, because he will motivate you to get off your bum with his positive outlook. I think he could cut the NLP crap and still be just as effective as a motivational speaker.

As for other techniques, I have been unable to locate studies involving affirmations or other self-help techniques. I have never believed in blindly following anything. I like to know what I am jumping into before I started throwing around my wallet and time.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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I'm always amazed to hear how much experience some people have in a subject just because they could not figure out how to implement it. Yep, it's much easier to denounce something (without providing empirical evidence) than to admit that you didn't know what you were doing.... ;)
 

Mad Banana

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
I'm always amazed to hear how much experience some people have in a subject just because they could not figure out how to implement it. Yep, it's much easier to denounce something (without providing empirical evidence) than to admit that you didn't know what you were doing.... ;)
now, thats a good point as well ;)
 

midnight

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Have any of you listened to Richard Bandler speak? Or read any of his books? IE Frogs into Princes??? Fascinating read...
 

everywomanshero

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Richard Bandler's tapes, I have many. There have been controlled studies and these have mostly been bad news for NLP. Google for scientific reviews and you can track down a zillion sources for this. The problem isn't what I think, the problem is that the scientific community has done studies on NLP, and many of the principles are unsound.

NLP is a big hit in the self-help market, because of it's outrageous claims and few people ever bother to find out that it is considered a fraud by the scientific/medical community. Unfortunately, Ross Jefferies helped secure its place in the Seduction Community. It has never been erradicated to date. I don't mind if people use it at all, I just think everyone should be aware of the critisims against it for a balanced arguement.

For example,
"The National Council Against Health Fraud classify NLP is a "dubious therapy"."

I know some people will say, if it's ineffective why do so many people use it. Two things to consider here: A) People go to the self help ile and buy crap at random B) Scientology probably has a much larger followiing (IDK this, I am just guessing, no statistics sorry!) despite having the "fair game" policy.

Personally, I don't want my Doctor treating me with weeds, shamanism, or geckos on a stick. NLP has proven no more reliable than these types of practices. Here is another link discussing problems in the "self-help" community psychologytoday
 
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Distant Light

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Are any of yall even good at NLP? How do you know it doesn't work? You can't say its crap because its different, and you can't really judge it unless you know how to use it properly. What you can say is NLP is not my style, but to say it doesn't work makes a whole bunch of people who use NLP a fake. Also on side note Kino is actually a NLP term and basically part of NLP, does that mean Kino doesn't work and we should avoid it?

I haven't used NLP before but I have been interested in trying it but never got any time to sit there and read for past two or three months.
 

Bible_Belt

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Ever hear of Pavlovs dog? That is ONE of many principals used in NLP that IS scientifically proven to have merit.

I agree. The power of association is very strong. As one example, Realtors recommend that the seller of a home use some sort of scent-making device, like a candle or scented oil thing. Vanilla and apple pie are two popular recommendations.

NLP has some merit, but you have to be able to separate the science from the sales pitch. If you are interested in human psychology, then read about psychology. There is plenty of information available for free:

http://dmoz.org/Science/Social_Sciences/Psychology/

http://www.google.com/Top/Science/Social_Sciences/Psychology/
 

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Francisco d'Anconia

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Bible_Belt said:
...NLP has some merit, but you have to be able to separate the science from the sales pitch. If you are interested in human psychology, then read about psychology. There is plenty of information available for free:

http://dmoz.org/Science/Social_Sciences/Psychology/

http://www.google.com/Top/Science/Social_Sciences/Psychology/


I agree, I would completely focus on psychology based information to learn NLP rather than gurus who's methods are based in NLP. No, it won't be a quick fix however performing the due diligence to gather accurate information to better ones chance of success.
 

whistler

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Anyone claiming NLP uses a technique like that used on Pavlov's dogs is a fake. Or, at least, they have no idea what they're talking about.
 

Bible_Belt

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NLP Anchoring is based on the idea of association, like Pavlov's dogs. Ross J uses it on a waitress in "The Game."
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Clearing up The Mystery

Let's break down PRECISELY what NLP is.

Neuro = of or dealing with nerves, predominantly the brain, which thereby connects to the emotions and body.

Linguistic = dealing with speech, words

Programming = systematic in nature, automated.

If you talk all gangster, isn't that just programming?
If you talk all business, isn't that just programming?
If you talk sports lingo, isn't that just programming?
If you talk all women, isn't that just programming?

Essentially, the AFC comes to Sosuave or any other site to be PROGRAMMED from AFC to a STUD PUA or DJ. Alot of them DO NOT, because on a subconscious level, they don't buy it, believe it, or want to. Yeah, they're motivated to DO SO, but they don't actually do it, because they can't see their SELF image going from A to Z.

Thing is, it's not until you dissolve the CONCEPT of self into THERE exists no SELF, that you can truly make changes.

I believe, the basis of humanity is purely concentrated energy of a conscious nature. Any substance examined with a powerful enough microscope demonstrates that there is NO SOLID base to it. A rock is not totally solid on a subatomic level, anymore than air, water, food, or human beings are. It's just that it's MORE concentrated given its properties.

That said, a human being is a genetic composite of whatever their parents were, however, if you're a mere product of your DNA, then you CANNOT have choice. YOU CANNOT have consciousness to choose GOOD OR BAD. RIGHT OR WRONG. You'd be totally LOCKED into whatever you're destined to be. BUT you are not. You are conscious controlled energy, aptly named WILL POWER.

WILL POWER. Will suggesting firmness of spirit and power, like a laser, focused. Or conscious thought focused on a point. It will shatter.

Beyond NLP

THE way many newbies come to NLP is by way of seduction. TOTALLY wrong. Normally they get to THAT, when they're still neophytes to seduction AlREADY. We're talking guys who barely get laid, are totally chumps, or are just lucky enough to get heavy hotties. Any guy who's been around awhile, KNOWS, that once you gain trust, there are ways to enabling OTHER behaviors with women. That doesn't happen as these guru's advertise, but it does happen.

I'd stated it before, a buddy of mine essentially did NLP, without realizing it was NLP. As a coach, he was always talking to people, motivating them, and he transitioned this information to women. He could turn a girl, over time, who was adverse to Oral, into a Literal *** Vampire. A girl who would swallow, enjoy oral, want to give, or even put it in coffee and drink it! All true stories. But it takes KNOWING how programmed people are, and how we all can be to comprehend the power.

I would NEVER suggest a young teen go there, or a guy who can't even tell when to call a girl, or even wonder how to talk with her. HOWEVER, Nlp does assist in understanding you, which gives you full grasp of how to talk with people. By no means is it a mystical or fantastical science. It doesn't work wonders in the true sense, but I would NEVER suggest NOT researching something in life. Do it. Expand upon it. Broaden it. Add to it. Offer comments and criticism. Improve it.

I own several NLP books, as well Tony Robbins books, and when you READ them, you get it. See, I don't like Guru's information. it's nice motivational material, but the real point is ADAPTING it TO YOU and YOUR game, not VICE versa.

Words have the profound effect of motivating us, or killing our dreams and ambitions. Ask any kid who's lived under the regime of tyrranical unloving parents. Or any girl who's been mentally abused for years under bad boyfriends. Realities get warped and shaped. It takes time to undo that, if at all possible.

I wouldn't expect ANY guy to play psychologist to a girl, but for your own benefit, it pays to know about all types of literature and psychology out there. The guys guru's target are the total neophytes, who can't grasp mere pickups or what to say on the phone, let get where NLP comes from. And certainly words don't communicate as much as HOW you communicate them, or your bodily actions.


A-Unit
 

midnight

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Francisco d'Anconia said:
I agree, I would completely focus on psychology based information to learn NLP rather than gurus who's methods are based in NLP. No, it won't be a quick fix however performing the due diligence to gather accurate information to better ones chance of success.

Even on Amazon d o t com where you can see user ratings for certain books, its very difficult to judge whether a book is good or bad because people into self-help will go ahead and buy it, read it and if it gives them a handful of "aha" experiences, they will go ahead and give it a 5 star rating... I've seen some really **** books with like 4.5 stars. Hypnosis and anchoring are two things I am fascinated by though unfortunately it is hard to find out who are the current gurus that would fit best for what I want to do..... Which is to broaden my horizens with women.
 
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