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TonyTenner

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Oh my. Don’t listen to this.
I agree with BeExcellent. I regularly come on here - and the wisdom is deep and profound - but never failed to be taken aback by the difference between the reality I see offline and the reality described on these forums. I've come round to taking onboard much of the advice, but dismissing the rest.
 

BeExcellent

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Oh I’m not jaded. It’s the certain premises that, in themselves are non existent in the world. And is based on an ideal seen that are fundamentally flawed.
By I like the ideas in some respects. I just don’t think it’s beneficial for men to start pursuing Ms. Right. There are ways to do these things in a way that can make it happen but women as a whole are seriously corrupted. I don’t blame them at all. But they need serious duress to alter their survival impetus.

In no way do I believe in punishing them. They aren’t aware of their degraded existence than a parrot knows what he’s saying. She’s just trying to survive in a mud puddle of her own creation.
The OP is jaded. He became complacent and that was his undoing. He then lays the blame more on “women” and expresses bitterness rather than desire to recognize his own weakness (however gradually the erosion of his frame) and actually assigns blame outside himself...

The men who I know personally who are in the kind of partnership that Kotaix and I describe are not now and have never been complacent.

The “corruption of women” is a non issue if you are a solid man who will not allow complacency to set in.

You don’t partner with “women” you partner with an individual.
 

TheFinalLine

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I agree with BeExcellent. I regularly come on here - and the wisdom is deep and profound - but never failed to be taken aback by the difference between the reality I see offline and the reality described on these forums. I've come round to taking onboard much of the advice, but dismissing the rest.
Then you’re all set. Go forth and prosper. Your situation has been handled.

However I will have to agree with you and @BeExcellent on one thing. There are men stuck here that are unsalvageable. They’ve been spreading their pontifications here for a long time. They are not helping men. They are actually pushing them deeper in the mud. Just say something actually new and could possibly be beneficial to all men...see what happens.

Jaded means they have crimes against themselves and are putting their innate irresponsibilities on women. When in fact it is them.

That being said what beexcellent said is not wrong but it does go against innate survival instincts. It assumes higher beings that do not exist yet and may never will.
 

BeExcellent

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I agree with BeExcellent. I regularly come on here - and the wisdom is deep and profound - but never failed to be taken aback by the difference between the reality I see offline and the reality described on these forums. I've come round to taking onboard much of the advice, but dismissing the rest.
You have the benefit of seeing a partnership like the one Kotaix and I describe in your parents’ marriage...just as Kotaix sees in his parents. I have peers and friends who have partnerships like this. They are amazing to see...so that means these things are possible...and thereby removes the excuse of the “unattainable ideal”...

No. That’s an individual with more growth to go through. That’s all.

I prefer to remove those limitations and explore what is possible...because it IS.
 

TonyTenner

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You have the benefit of seeing a partnership like the one Kotaix and I describe in your parents’ marriage...just as Kotaix sees in his parents. I have peers and friends who have partnerships like this. They are amazing to see...so that means these things are possible...and thereby removes the excuse of the “unattainable ideal”...

No. That’s an individual with more growth to go through. That’s all.

I prefer to remove those limitations and explore what is possible...because it IS.
Yeah, the main reason I cannot accept the idea that LTR's are basically impossible is because of my own parents, almost 50 years married and a healthier relationship you will not see. But I also see friends of mine in 10 year LTR's that are still going strong. Granted, I'm on the outside so who knows what's really going on.

This forum is a fountain of wisdom but often defeatist in that respect. Fundamentally, to pair-bond is an innate survival instinct - the offspring from healthy relationships prosper much more than the offspring from unhealthy relationships, or single parents.
 

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TheFinalLine

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People here are smart enough to figure things out. I will eventually be in this type of partnership. It’s what I screen for actually.
I would like to take these quotes for a few points that go against the nature of beings.

Firstly people are NOT smart enough to figure it out. They were born into a world that taught them how to survive. This is what RNA (a copy of DNA) does within every cell of a body.

They develop a whole system of thinking and acting based on the world they are born in. Now for sure it is true that some figure it out very quickly and adjust. This is a huge exception. If what you say is true, men in here would have figured it out long ago and would be off finding the perfect women for them.

Let’s look at the second one. A woman screening a man is actually going to shut off her interest in him if he complies. This is a proven fact because men who have elevated themselves to a good position and are interested in her will not comply with her screening him.

As you pointed out in a past thread, you like players. Players do not comply with screening. I see good intent in you but your proposal is disastrous to say the least. Convincing men that you know how to create a relationship is balderdash. Only a man can create the context. She decides if it’s for her or it doesn’t.
 

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Jaded means they have crimes against themselves and are putting their innate irresponsibilities on women. When in fact it is them.

That being said what beexcellent said is not wrong but it does go against innate survival instincts. It assumes higher beings that do not exist yet and may never will.
You make an important point of in your statement above. It DOES go against INDIVIDUAL survival instinct...which is one of the things I said in my earlier post. The interdependence of the relationship takes precedent. It is a choice and requires absolute trust.

People rise to interdependence under various circumstances. Loyalty to the unit above self for example in the military is similar. The unit well-being is above individual well-being...

A great marriage or partnership functions in the same way...Relationship well-being above individual well-being...
 

BeExcellent

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A good discussion. True I like the players. Seeing one now in fact.

All people screen. I can always walk or not walk. The interesting thing about the man I am seeing is his utter transparency. He does not hide who he is nor what he does. If it makes me uncomfortable, so be it. He likes me very well, but he will not allow me to erode him...and I am able to be transparent as well. He knows...for example that I am here. The transparency lays the foundation for trust as the relationship develops. So I screen for men who have strength of character to be who they really are...

My experience has been that players go through so much abundance sexually for example...that they realize sex itself is not the end-all, be-all. Then they start looking for meaning...rather than meaningless sex ad nauseum...not that they mind sex, lol...but it cannot satisfy deeper yearnings beyond sex. So after having so much sexual abundance they actually tend to refine what they are looking for...they become more discriminating, not less.
 

TheFinalLine

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A good discussion. True I like the players. Seeing one now in fact.

All people screen. I can always walk or not walk. The interesting thing about the man I am seeing is his utter transparency. He does not hide who he is nor what he does. If it makes me uncomfortable, so be it. He likes me very well, but he will not allow me to erode him...and I am able to be transparent as well. He knows...for example that I am here. The transparency lays the foundation for trust as the relationship develops. So I screen for men who have strength of character to be who they really are...

My experience has been that players go through so much abundance sexually for example...that they realize sex itself is not the end-all, be-all. Then they start looking for meaning...rather than meaningless sex ad nauseum...not that they mind sex, lol...but it cannot satisfy deeper yearnings beyond sex. So after having so much sexual abundance they actually tend to refine what they are looking for...they become more discriminating, not less.
Then you have your end all relationship. I’m sure he’s perfect for you.
 

TheFinalLine

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The “corruption of women” is a non issue if you are a solid man who will not allow complacency to set in.
At least you didn’t try to get out of “women being corrupt”. You like it. Thus your post.

This is false data. These men on operating on a reality that they have been spoon fed from birth.

It is a non issue if you are not set on LTR or marriage. If you are like many of these guys then it is an issue. Try not to be so solipsistic. There are other realities than yours. You belong to players.
You are not faced with the idea that most women don’t want you, like these guys. What you are doing is easy. In fact you don’t have to do anything at all. LMAO

Thus your reality is communicated through your words and it is a false reality and you know it. It only applies to women in their search for the ideal fictional man.

These guys have little or no concept of degraded women en masse as an overwhelming binary. It flies completely into the face of their moralistic teachings and beliefs. Beliefs moms some dads and women gave them. Your world is a lie and part and parcel to girl world. You have no subjective reality except that silly boys flounder over you. Lol

I’m not the type to ever fall in love. Deep connections? You bet.
 
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TonyTenner

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At least you didn’t try to get out of “women being corrupt”. You like it. Thus your post.

This is false data. These men on operating on a reality that they have been spoon fed from birth.

It is a non issue if you are not set on LTR or marriage. If you are like many of these guys then it is an issue. Try not to be so solipsistic. There are other realities than yours. You belong to players.
You are not faced with the idea that most women don’t want you, like these guys. What you are doing is easy. In fact you don’t have to do anything at all. LMAO

Thus your reality is communicated through your words and it is a false reality and you know it. It only applies to women in their search for the ideal fictional man.

These guys have little or no concept of degraded women en masse as an overwhelming binary. It flies completely into the face of their moralistic teachings and beliefs. Beliefs moms some dads and women gave them. Your world is a lie and part and parcel to girl world. You have no subjective reality except that silly boys flounder over you. Lol

I’m not the type to ever fall in love. Deep connections? You bet.
Can you clarify your position on LTRs?
 

TheFinalLine

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Can you clarify your position on LTRs?
I had to think about your question. I can answer this in many ways but it’s not a single facet subject. So I will post this here for now. It’s a comment of of a post I did a while back. I can see that you are new. Cool. For the next year do not even let a “relationship” idea pass through your mind.

Here is the comment:

“ You misunderstand. Exerting power/control doesn’t work. What’s more interesting is you jumped right to the social structure narrative like a constructed beta. A compliant man.
get rid of that type of thinking.

You absolutely do not try to control her. Instead of explaining, let me illustrate in an exact conversation.

Context: you have been seeing her for a few months. You are doing well. You think she might have potential. You never ask for a relationship. It must be her that asks.

Her: “aren’t we an item? I want to be with you. A relationship could be good for us.”

you: “I don’t think you can do that yet.”

Her: “what makes you say that?”

you: “Because in order for a woman to be in a full relationship with me, she has to be all in. There won’t be any communication with exes or men or secret phone/text conversations. My mate will hand me her phone whenever I want to look at it.”

Her: “why would you demand that?”

you: “it’s not all of it. Naturally she has no obligation to do this just like I have no obligation to keep her. She’s free to leave. I will help her pack.”

her: “people have the right to privacy. That’s not ok!”

you: “her privacy ends where my commitment begins. I will not be taken advantage of or be cuckolded. Not only that but any behaviors that lead to infidelity will not be tolerated.”

Her: “what do you mean?”

you: “well, she won’t be going to work in provocative clothing or have any form of activity after work with men. The number one cheating venue is work. She will conduct herself as a lady and represent me admirably. I want to be proud of her.“

her: “anything else? (Sarcastically)?”

you: “ yes actually. There will be no girl nights out, clubs, bars or girl trips. And just as importantly, if the sex falls off and she rejects me or uses sex as a weapon, it’s over. She goes to the curb.”

her: “a woman can refuse sex to anyone. It’s her body. (Indignant with hands on hips)

you: “I couldn’t agree more. Absolutely. But I have a right to select or deselect any woman for any reason I want. She will be dismissed. A relationship is a pact. My resources, protection, and caring in exchange for her loyalty, exclusivity and intimacy. Otherwise we have nothing.”

her: “that’s brutal male dominance and control.”

you: “dominance yes. Your welcome. Control? Not at all. She’s free to leave at any time. If she doesn’t, I will throw her out. You know as well as I do that a woman left to her own devices will destroy everything. Don’t lie and try to say it’s not true. The world is littered with casualties and I will never be one of them. Oh yeah, one more thing...no slut or single friends or cheating wives as friends. I will bring her into my world and she will meet very stable people only. My call.”

Her: “I could never do that.”

you: “(smiling a gentle smile) I know that, that’s why we are not boyfriend/girlfriend.”
 

TonyTenner

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I had to think about your question. I can answer this in many ways but it’s not a single facet subject. So I will post this here for now. It’s a comment of of a post I did a while back. I can see that you are new. Cool. For the next year do not even let a “relationship” idea pass through your mind.

Here is the comment:

“ You misunderstand. Exerting power/control doesn’t work. What’s more interesting is you jumped right to the social structure narrative like a constructed beta. A compliant man.
get rid of that type of thinking.

You absolutely do not try to control her. Instead of explaining, let me illustrate in an exact conversation.

Context: you have been seeing her for a few months. You are doing well. You think she might have potential. You never ask for a relationship. It must be her that asks.

Her: “aren’t we an item? I want to be with you. A relationship could be good for us.”

you: “I don’t think you can do that yet.”

Her: “what makes you say that?”

you: “Because in order for a woman to be in a full relationship with me, she has to be all in. There won’t be any communication with exes or men or secret phone/text conversations. My mate will hand me her phone whenever I want to look at it.”

Her: “why would you demand that?”

you: “it’s not all of it. Naturally she has no obligation to do this just like I have no obligation to keep her. She’s free to leave. I will help her pack.”

her: “people have the right to privacy. That’s not ok!”

you: “her privacy ends where my commitment begins. I will not be taken advantage of or be cuckolded. Not only that but any behaviors that lead to infidelity will not be tolerated.”

Her: “what do you mean?”

you: “well, she won’t be going to work in provocative clothing or have any form of activity after work with men. The number one cheating venue is work. She will conduct herself as a lady and represent me admirably. I want to be proud of her.“

her: “anything else? (Sarcastically)?”

you: “ yes actually. There will be no girl nights out, clubs, bars or girl trips. And just as importantly, if the sex falls off and she rejects me or uses sex as a weapon, it’s over. She goes to the curb.”

her: “a woman can refuse sex to anyone. It’s her body. (Indignant with hands on hips)

you: “I couldn’t agree more. Absolutely. But I have a right to select or deselect any woman for any reason I want. She will be dismissed. A relationship is a pact. My resources, protection, and caring in exchange for her loyalty, exclusivity and intimacy. Otherwise we have nothing.”

her: “that’s brutal male dominance and control.”

you: “dominance yes. Your welcome. Control? Not at all. She’s free to leave at any time. If she doesn’t, I will throw her out. You know as well as I do that a woman left to her own devices will destroy everything. Don’t lie and try to say it’s not true. The world is littered with casualties and I will never be one of them. Oh yeah, one more thing...no slut or single friends or cheating wives as friends. I will bring her into my world and she will meet very stable people only. My call.”

Her: “I could never do that.”

you: “(smiling a gentle smile) I know that, that’s why we are not boyfriend/girlfriend.”
I'm actually in an LTR. And I'm not sure of the point you're making here. Pretty much everything in that conversation piece from the Man should be implied, not said.
 

TheFinalLine

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I'm actually in an LTR. And I'm not sure of the point you're making here. Pretty much everything in that conversation piece from the Man should be implied, not said.
This is what one would think. Your value? Yes it’s implied.

Understanding the solipsistic nature of a woman, one need be explicit. Not in a shytty way but she must meet criteria. Either she is really in or she is out. What this does is eliminates her from manipulation and mind games.
If you don’t, you will get this if you try a relationship, or something similar...

You: I saw you out with another man yesterday.

Her: it was nothing. Just friends.

You: do you always kiss your “friends” like that?

Her: Well you haven’t done this lately “Blah, Blah, Blah”. And because you did “yackety yack”, I felt all alone. You made me feel this way.

You: what? What are you saying? That I caused you to cheat?

Her: well we never said we are exclusive. You lost your chance. (Even though it was implied, and it always is implied. It’s called boyfriend/girlfriend. Not boyfriend”S”/girlfriend)

This is packed with mild “gas lighting”. This causes the average man to cave inward and start doubting himself. It is a very good tactic to use on men. Mostly because he is willing to try most anything to keep her.

Pay attention to what is going on. Ever notice how you get labeled as a toxic man for any of those things I wrote? I designed the post conversation very specifically to show the things that women knowingly do to keep the options and possibilities for extracurricular men open for secret play.

Especially married women. Lol oh my they are easy.

If you allow a woman to present herself in a way that promotes infidelity then it’s all on you. You can’t say crap to her. You did it. You let a woman in who is unfit. She is executing her dualistic sexual strategy. And you let her. Either she is in to build something with you or she isn’t. It’s very binary. Go/no go.
 
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daproest1

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Yeah, the main reason I cannot accept the idea that LTR's are basically impossible is because of my own parents, almost 50 years married and a healthier relationship you will not see. But I also see friends of mine in 10 year LTR's that are still going strong. Granted, I'm on the outside so who knows what's really going on.

This forum is a fountain of wisdom but often defeatist in that respect. Fundamentally, to pair-bond is an innate survival instinct - the offspring from healthy relationships prosper much more than the offspring from unhealthy relationships, or single parents.
It’s possible when you’re Both young And you hold it together (like your parents). After that, It becomes exceedingly harder or more unlikely. I have a wonderful woman now, but I feel nothing for her because she’s basically a butterface. Is that her fault? No. But it’s probably why her character And moral compass is so awesome. Good relationship with her dad. Knows how to be alone. Low ***** count. And perceives me to be of greater value than her. The girl I actually loved that I was with for over half a decade, Perceived me the same way then CHANGED. Outside influences. Societal pressures. Bad communication on her part. Complacency (in the relationship, not in life) on my end. The list goes on. She also had a low notch count. And was an all around quality woman. She monkey branched 6 years later. She is no longer the woman I once fell for. I’m sure she’s talking about me to her current guy the same way she talked to my about her ex before me. Either way, the damage is done.
 

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TonyTenner

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This is what one would think. Your value? Yes it’s implied.

Understanding the solipsistic nature of a woman, one need be explicit. Not in a shytty way but she must meet criteria. Either she is really in or she is out. What this does is eliminates her from manipulation and mind games.
If you don’t, you will get this if you try a relationship, or something similar...

You: I saw you out with another man yesterday.

Her: it was nothing. Just friends.

You: do you always kiss your “friends” like that?

Her: Well you haven’t done this lately “Blah, Blah, Blah”. And because you did “yackety yack”, I felt all alone. You made me feel this way.

You: what? What are you saying? That I caused you to cheat?

Her: well we never said we are exclusive. You lost your chance. (Even though it was implied, and it always is emplied)

This is packed with mild “gas lighting”. This causes the average man to cave inward and start doubting himself. It is a very good tactic to use on men. Mostly because he is willing to try most anything to keep her.

Pay attention to what is going on. Ever notice how you get labeled as a toxic man for any of those things I wrote? I designed the post conversation very specifically to show the things that knowingly do to keep the options and possibilities for extracurricular men for secret play.

Especially married women. Lol oh my they are easy.

If you allow a woman to present herself in a way that promotes infidelity then it’s all on you. You can’t say crap to her. You did it. You let a woman in who is unfit. She is executing her dualistic sexual strategy. And you let her. Either she is in to build something with you or she isn’t. It’s very binary. Go/no go.
I simply act like the prize - because I am and have options - and my gf falls in line. I never look at her phone (she hands it to me willingly to show me videos and what not), I don't question her if she's out with her friends, and I assume she is being faithful. She's very attractive - a former model - and has social media, and Im not following her on any of it. I've no idea what she posts, and I don't care. I would be sad if it didn't work out, but not overly so as I have an excellent life with a large friend group and cannot seem to cure my wandering eye anyway. What we have works well. I think you're being too dogmatic.
 

TheFinalLine

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I simply act like the prize - because I am and have options - and my gf falls in line. I never look at her phone (she hands it to me willingly to show me videos and what not), I don't question her if she's out with her friends, and I assume she is being faithful. She's very attractive - a former model - and has social media, and Im not following her on any of it. I've no idea what she posts, and I don't care. I would be sad if it didn't work out, but not overly so as I have an excellent life with a large friend group and cannot seem to cure my wandering eye anyway. What we have works well. I think you're being too dogmatic.
Like I said man. You’re good to go. Go flourish. Who am I to tell you what to think? I don’t do that. You asked me a question. If you’re not looking for a wife or have no plans of an LTR, then disregard everything I said. We’re cool.
 

TonyTenner

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Like I said man. You’re good to go. Go flourish. Who am I to tell you what to think? I don’t do that. You asked me a question. If you’re not looking for a wife or have no plans of an LTR, then disregard everything I said. We’re cool.
I do like your posts, they are thoughtful. But we come from different perspectives - likely influenced by my family e.g. strong dad, brothers/sisters married with kids. I'll keep your perspective in mind.
 

TheFinalLine

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I do like your posts, they are thoughtful. But we come from different perspectives - likely influenced by my family e.g. strong dad, brothers/sisters married with kids. I'll keep your perspective in mind.
I understand. Same with my family. I was the oldest of eight. Only one got divorced, a brother. One was killed. Rock on man.
 

Medina

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It's almost like its a womans job to conquer and destory a mans heart

Men were bred to conquer their environment and the world. Women were bred to conquer men

We can handle all kinds of violence, war etc but heartbreak from a woman is next level sh!t

And they love it. They walk away with a sense of accomplishment. It's an ego boost

Like a man walks away from a physical fight that he just won. He's ready to face anything
 
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