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oldmanofthesea

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Whether from cold approach, warm approach, OLD, whatever….. we know many girls flake. We get used to it - it is a numbers game. But what pushes me over the edge is when they covertly blame you for their flaking. The usual way they do this is to message you on the day of the date and say, “Hey, I wasn’t sure if we were still on tonight but I don’t think I can make it.” This covertly says, “Hey, you screwed up by failing to repeatedly remind me or repeatedly ask me for my reassurance that I'll actually grace you with my presence, and because you failed in your responsibility, you lost your chance.” And this is despite setting the date for a specific day, time, and place.

Yes, women with high IL are less likely to flake but in my experience, you can't expect a woman to have high IL in you until after you've been on a date and spent some time with her. I also haven't noticed much of a difference in flake ratio based on how much or how little I invest in conversation prior to the date. It's more based on which way the wind is blowing.
 

Barrister

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Whether from cold approach, warm approach, OLD, whatever….. we know many girls flake. We get used to it - it is a numbers game. But what pushes me over the edge is when they covertly blame you for their flaking. The usual way they do this is to message you on the day of the date and say, “Hey, I wasn’t sure if we were still on tonight but I don’t think I can make it.” This covertly says, “Hey, you screwed up by failing to repeatedly remind me or repeatedly ask me for my reassurance that I'll actually grace you with my presence, and because you failed in your responsibility, you lost your chance.” And this is despite setting the date for a specific day, time, and place.

Yes, women with high IL are less likely to flake but in my experience, you can't expect a woman to have high IL in you until after you've been on a date and spent some time with her. I also haven't noticed much of a difference in flake ratio based on how much or how little I invest in conversation prior to the date. It's more based on which way the wind is blowing.
To be clear (because this is a hotly debated topic here in the past), I do not subscribe to the notion of getting the date and doing nothing else. I think some (minor) rapport building via text/DM before a 1st date greatly lessens the chance of a flake and actually makes the 1st date more enjoyable.

I also like to text/DM them relatively early in the day on the day of the date and tell them to wear something sexy that night. I think it sets the tone for one but also is a "confirming" text without overtly coming across that way. Obviously, you can never completely protect yourself from a same-day cancellation, but I think the above greatly lessens it.
 

oldmanofthesea

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I hear you, but as I mentioned, I've played around with rapport building vs staying silent and everything in between and just haven't noticed any correlation. The most recent flake who did this was one who I had kept up daily conversation with for three days prior to the date, though I did not message her the day of the date because I had sent the last message which was the previous night. Wasn't going to double text.
 

Barrister

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I hear you, but as I mentioned, I've played around with rapport building vs staying silent and everything in between and just haven't noticed any correlation. The most recent flake who did this was one who I had kept up daily conversation with for three days prior to the date, though I did not message her the day of the date because I had sent the last message which was the previous night. Wasn't going to double text.
Without a doubt it can still happen. But I would say when I have set up a date - say 4-5 days in advance - and said NOTHING after getting the date as opposed to shooting maybe a text here or there, I have noticed a higher flake rate. Granted I don't have numbers to back this up. I also certainly think there is a much higher likelihood if the date is off OLD rather than from a cold approach.
 

zinc4

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Whether from cold approach, warm approach, OLD, whatever….. we know many girls flake. We get used to it - it is a numbers game. But what pushes me over the edge is when they covertly blame you for their flaking. The usual way they do this is to message you on the day of the date and say, “Hey, I wasn’t sure if we were still on tonight but I don’t think I can make it.” This covertly says, “Hey, you screwed up by failing to repeatedly remind me or repeatedly ask me for my reassurance that I'll actually grace you with my presence, and because you failed in your responsibility, you lost your chance.” And this is despite setting the date for a specific day, time, and place.

Yes, women with high IL are less likely to flake but in my experience, you can't expect a woman to have high IL in you until after you've been on a date and spent some time with her. I also haven't noticed much of a difference in flake ratio based on how much or how little I invest in conversation prior to the date. It's more based on which way the wind is blowing.

I used to never text after setting up first second or 3rd date. However most of these "modern" women who are new in your life will assume the date is cancelled if no one touches extra bases with eachother before the date now a days i have noticed. They tend to get incredibly insecure as well.

I think its because they have so many options in this one touch digital social media age that a lot of them have no qualms about nexting even a high value man in the beginning over very little.
 

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oldmanofthesea

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I agree with both of you. The crazy thing about it is that some girls will feel you are needy or low value if you keep up communication with them prior to the date, while other girls will get insecure and next (as you mentioned). My personal preference is to communicate as little as possible prior to the date because I don't want to invest any of my time and attention on what could turn out to be a flake or attention wh0re. But I begrudgingly have experimented with trying to keep the fire warm and it just hasn't really done much.

I have also contemplated starting to tell girls that I am confirming the date right now, right when I set the date, and that there's no need for either of us to confirm the day-of unless one of us has something come up and we can't make it.
 

Glassguy

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Some guys wont agree with me but this is my opinion:

If you are her best option, she will show up. IDC if you text her in between setting the date and the actual date or not. With some women, a little texting and rapport building is good and it helps. With some it doesnt matter. I tend to think the busier the chick is, the better you are off to set the date and show up.
As long as your texting isnt needy or seems like an interview, it doesnt matter if you text a little bit in between.

Low interest women flake. High interest women show up.

99% of the time a woman flakes because she thinks another dude is a better option.

The only 2 acceptable responses to a woman who texts you that she cant make it is 1.) OK 2.) No response at all.

Just move on. If she ever reaches back out to you after a flake, invite her to your house to hang out only. She blew her date opportunity and when this has happened to me, I didnt even want them to come over even if they accepted. Hit and run.

Happy Hunting
 

Barrister

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Some guys wont agree with me but this is my opinion:

If you are her best option, she will show up. IDC if you text her in between setting the date and the actual date or not. With some women, a little texting and rapport building is good and it helps. With some it doesnt matter. I tend to think the busier the chick is, the better you are off to set the date and show up.
As long as your texting isnt needy or seems like an interview, it doesnt matter if you text a little bit in between.

Low interest women flake. High interest women show up.

99% of the time a woman flakes because she thinks another dude is a better option.

The only 2 acceptable responses to a woman who texts you that she cant make it is 1.) OK 2.) No response at all.

Just move on. If she ever reaches back out to you after a flake, invite her to your house to hang out only. She blew her date opportunity and when this has happened to me, I didnt even want them to come over even if they accepted. Hit and run.

Happy Hunting
Does your response to flaking change if it is a plate that you have been seeing for quite some time vs. a 1st date? Or do you always "move on"? Say it's a plate you have been seeing for a couple of months about once a week. Everything has been great but she inexplicable flakes one time. Do you wait for her to reach out again or do you cut some slack?
 

Glassguy

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Does your response to flaking change if it is a plate that you have been seeing for quite some time vs. a 1st date? Or do you always "move on"? Say it's a plate you have been seeing for a couple of months about once a week. Everything has been great but she inexplicable flakes one time. Do you wait for her to reach out again or do you cut some slack?
If something comes up and she reschedules, cut some slack. No need to throw away good pvssy that is benefiting your needs.

A Flake? Move on. I would never reach back out. If she was a plate, she would automatically be the first one replaced in my rotation.
 

Modern Man Advice

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Whether from cold approach, warm approach, OLD, whatever….. we know many girls flake. We get used to it - it is a numbers game. But what pushes me over the edge is when they covertly blame you for their flaking. The usual way they do this is to message you on the day of the date and say, “Hey, I wasn’t sure if we were still on tonight but I don’t think I can make it.” This covertly says, “Hey, you screwed up by failing to repeatedly remind me or repeatedly ask me for my reassurance that I'll actually grace you with my presence, and because you failed in your responsibility, you lost your chance.” And this is despite setting the date for a specific day, time, and place.

Yes, women with high IL are less likely to flake but in my experience, you can't expect a woman to have high IL in you until after you've been on a date and spent some time with her. I also haven't noticed much of a difference in flake ratio based on how much or how little I invest in conversation prior to the date. It's more based on which way the wind is blowing.
Sounds about right. It is simply the way it is. And the faster you accept this, the less you try to analyze it or rationalize it. Women's emotions are ever flowing from moment to moment.

Having said that, if a girl is a no-show and says that, she is out. Simple.

If you let that slide, you lost. Period.

The girl doesn't have to have super high IL, but at the very least respect you enough to either show up or let you know in advance. That is a non-negotiable for me.


Modern Man Advice
 

stringpuller

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Whether from cold approach, warm approach, OLD, whatever….. we know many girls flake. We get used to it - it is a numbers game. But what pushes me over the edge is when they covertly blame you for their flaking. The usual way they do this is to message you on the day of the date and say, “Hey, I wasn’t sure if we were still on tonight but I don’t think I can make it.” This covertly says, “Hey, you screwed up by failing to repeatedly remind me or repeatedly ask me for my reassurance that I'll actually grace you with my presence, and because you failed in your responsibility, you lost your chance.” And this is despite setting the date for a specific day, time, and place.

Yes, women with high IL are less likely to flake but in my experience, you can't expect a woman to have high IL in you until after you've been on a date and spent some time with her. I also haven't noticed much of a difference in flake ratio based on how much or how little I invest in conversation prior to the date. It's more based on which way the wind is blowing.
We talking dating apps or approach?
I think in the future is going to be.

Social circle face to face meet + contact and a direct invite to pad.

Approach in familiar place with ioi's + good convo + getting contact + a direct invite soon afterward. The next available day.

Approach + convo + gping for a direct insta hangout.

This OLD thing is going to tank I believe. Until the type of girls change on the apps. .02
 

BeExcellent

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Advice from the old lady:

Concur with @Glassguy that women do not flake on their best option.

However you cannot know if she has similar options that she is evaluating, just as you guys do.

For that reason I think in this day & age it benefits you to build a little rapport between the ask and the date. I’ve ejected men who came across socially stunted when compared to a man who can flirt and banter a little, all other variables being roughly equal…

I like the “wear something sexy tonight” gambit. It covertly confirms, sexualizes the intent, and is flirty. The key is not to subsequently develop diarrhea of the fingers. Just send it and show up.

I know guys who are brilliantly well calibrated in their banter ability and they can effectively text A LOT ahead of a first date. And they reduce their flake rate greatly. But that’s a rather advanced technique and needs to fit with the personality and wit of the individual man. It’s not a one size fits all thing.
 

Zimbabwe

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Different things work for different people, for me personally my text game isn't on point so i restrict it only for logistics.

When it comes to OLD, the flake rate is going to be sky high simply because they have zero accountability for their actions. If she had high interest and wasn't sure she would send you a confirmation text asking "are we still on?"

I've had plenty of dates flake and some outright ghost, it's all part of the game. They probably never had any real intention of meeting from the start.
 

SW15

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I get annoyed by women who text me the day of to confirm a date. It's a minor annoyance. Most women will send a text message a few hours before an agreed upon first date to see if you'll still show up. This is more common in swipe app initial interactions vs. cold approach, but still happens a little bit in cold approach sourced dates.

If I make plans for a date 2-3 days in the future, I don't feel the need to babysit and text a woman the day of the date to confirm.
 

BadBoy89

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But what pushes me over the edge is when they covertly blame you for their flaking. The usual way they do this is to message you on the day of the date and say, “Hey, I wasn’t sure if we were still on tonight but I don’t think I can make it.” This covertly says, “Hey, you screwed up by failing to repeatedly remind me or repeatedly ask me for my reassurance that I'll actually grace you with my presence, and because you failed in your responsibility, you lost your chance.” And this is despite setting the date for a specific day, time, and place.
Come on bro, at your age this should be a walk in the park for you.

As soon as I walk out the door in the morning, I get stuff like that and 5 times worse from everybody, including hot women. I’m the boss so maybe I see it a lot more than others or people rest me to no end, but nothing surprises me anymore. It shouldn’t surprise you either. I’ve had so many girls flake, I’ve had so many girls tell me to go hell, I’ve had so many girls change their mind, I’ve had girls record me, sue me, hit me, swear at me, insult me, and worse.

And some girls flakes on the day of the date you guys get upset?

Remember, the sexual market is deregulated. Women are encouraged and rewarded to be abusive and disrespectful to any man they don’t consider top tier.

Be strong men.
 
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darksprezzatura

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Flaking won't be an issue if you have 2-3 women lined up to take their spot.

Keep it chill. Keep your options open. Take it easy mate.
 

oldmanofthesea

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Appreciate the replies, though it looks like some may be missing the point and/or might not have read the whole post. I've been at this long enough that flaking doesn't really bother me - it's par for the course. I don't even bother responding when they do. What annoys me is the frequency of women who blame you for their own flake by suggesting that they are flaking because you didn't do something you should have, instead of just taking accountability themselves.

I admit, I should grow thicker skin around this specific and common scenario since it seems to bother me, but I think the reason why is because I see it consistently with most women not only not taking accountability, but blaming you in many aspects of a relationship. Hell, I think the last thread I posted probably 6-9 months ago was "Has anyone been successful in getting women to be accountable for their own emotions?" There's that word again, "Accountability."

A few years ago I watched AMS videos for a couple months on my commute and I recall this specific issue of girls flaking and then blaming him for not "confirming" or whatever they expected, was something that drove him nuts too. So he adopted the technique of lining up multiple dates for the same night and then showing up for the hottest one who reached out to him to confirm. When and if any other girl showed up at the the other venue he had set for their date and then texted him, "where are you?" he would text back, "Oh, I didn't know the date was still on, I guess you should have confirmed!" I laugh just thinking about it though not something I would do personally.
 
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Who Dares Win

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I had girls writing me asking if the date was still on or not before complaining about me not contacting them.

I also had girls writing me a couple of hours in advance to come up with some excuse after a better deal appeared for them.

I would say what makes or breaks it all in their level of interest.

In my opinion the best option is texting them something few hours before the meeting time asking them something not related to a confirmation but that implies that the date is happening.

"hey do you know if around X there is any parking place, still deciding if Im coming with my car or with a cab"

She will reply that she doesnt know but you better come with a taxi so you can both drink, or she can reply that she doesnt know either so you can suggest to get a taxi to make sure you control the logistics there...if she plans to fake she will take advantage of the timing to let you know.
 

CAPSLOCK BANDIT

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It depends how she flakes, like excuse has to be given benefit of doubt unless you know otherwise
 

BadBoy89

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I admit, I should grow thicker skin around this specific and common scenario since it seems to bother me, but I think the reason why is because I see it consistently with most women not only not taking accountability, but blaming you in many aspects of a relationship. Hell, I think the last thread I posted probably 6-9 months ago was "Has anyone been successful in getting women to be accountable for their own emotions?" There's that word again, "Accountability."
With your experience, surprised you are writing posts like this.

A woman will NEVER be accountable for anything when it comes to romantic relationships. It’s not in her best interest. It’s in her best interest to have sex with the alpha for genetics, legally commit to the beta to provide. Anything in between is not her care or fault.

You may get a woman to apologize if it comes to business and she is costing you money. But in terms of dating, emotions, romance, and sex, everything, EVERYTHING is the man’s fault.

Now I should say the above generally applies to young, fertile, hot women between 20-30. Once the woman approaches 40, society will generally blame her more and more and the man less and less, since her value and looks and fertileness have gone down.

But in terms of romantic relationships. if she between 20-30 and fertile and hot, NOTHING will save the man.
 
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