Can guys over 30 get a high lay count? My thoughts and experiences.

[CornbreadFed]

I've never been asked to be their kids Dad. I've never been asked to pay for stuff for their kids. They've never asked to borrow money from me. Almost all of them want to pay half or more or will simply pay for stuff when we go out without asking and we take turns.

I never brought up that direct approach. Even if you don’t send a single penny to the kid, you are still wining and dinning his mom which trickles down to the kid.

Most of the women I date are single Moms and all of them have good jobs. Nurses, teachers, marketing rep, senior managers, etc.

Their careers are separate from the fact that they are terrible human beings.

Stop dating bottom of the barrel women because they look good but offer nothing else of value and you will find these issues mostly fix themselves.

Dude you are the one arguing in favor of single moms. How am I dating the bottom of the barrel? My gf is hot, has a decent job, no debt, and is childless, so I would have zero issues moving forward with her. If we had two girls of the same caliber and one was a single mom and one was childless, why would any man choose the single mom? There is no excuse to pick a single mom when there are plenty of fertile childless women out there. If my 55 year old dad can find a fertile childless woman than anyone can.

 

[SW15]

I do not like kids and the thought of a trickle down of me helping another man’s seed turns me off. Yes, they aren’t literally attached to her but I could never go past a one night stand with a single mom. In addition, most single moms have flaunted to the world that they are irresponsible in making crucial life decisions and that will truckle down to you.

Two of my fondest plates were single Moms. And, no, with these ones, I never met the kiddo's. My relationship with these lovely ladies was sex and a little bit of companionship and that's it.

Look down upon single Moms all you want, they're amazing as plates. Change my mind....you can't.

Some men (childless or single fathers) can pull off having casual, uncommitted sex with a single mom for a short period of time. Even in these arrangements, a man needs a lot of patience because scheduling get togethers with single moms can be challenging with her parenting time commitments.

Longer term, the lifestyle differences between a childless man and a single mom are difficult to reconcile.

I don't think a childless man is well positioned for an LTR with a single mom. I feel neutral about a childless man pursuing a shorter term arrangement with a single mom. Single dads and single moms can work in an LTR.

After age 30, and especially between 35-44, a lot of men will experience issues with attracting women and might even end up settling for a single mom.

Let's look a decent hypothetical case of this of a man in the United States market....

-40 year old White man
-$90,000-$120,000 annual salary from a white collar job
-little to no debt, bachelor's or advanced level degree is either fully paid off or mostly paid off, non-housing debt is minimal
-6.5 in looks, not overweight, goes to gym and/or plays a sport regularly (in adequate shape but not like a @sangheilios top guy at the gym status). Less than 3 tattoos and none visible
-5'9"-5'11" in height, specifically keeping this height around average and not at women's 6'0"+ preference
-Some Game knowledge but by no means an expert
-Social circle is mostly married people with children. Guy has effectively no social circle options
-Lives in a metro area with 500,000+ in population

Who is going to be interested in this man for an LTR when his options are swipe apps, social media DMs, and cold approaches?

Despite this man being a decent option, he'll struggle to get attention regardless of which method he chooses.

The majority of childless women close to his own age won't be impressed with his income or possessions despite his salary being decent. Childless women close to his own age are careerists. Many of them have gotten preferential treatment in hiring and their salaries are close to equal.

His income, possessions, and net worth are not large enough to get a childless woman 10-15 years younger.

He's most appealing to single moms close to his own age looking for beta bucks.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I never brought up that direct approach. Even if you don’t send a single penny to the kid, you are still wining and dinning his mom which trickles down to the kid.




Their careers are separate from the fact that they are terrible human beings.




Dude you are the one arguing in favor of single moms. How am I dating the bottom of the barrel? My gf is hot, has a decent job, no debt, and is childless, so I would have zero issues moving forward with her. If we had two girls of the same caliber and one was a single mom and one was childless, why would any man choose the single mom? There is no excuse to pick a single mom when there are plenty of fertile childless women out there. If my 55 year old dad can find a fertile childless woman than anyone can.

Because I have kids and I don't want to have to worry how she will interact with them or if she even likes kids. I also relate to them better since we have shared experiences with kids.

Different life stages bro...you aren't going to want the same things at every life stage. What you want at 20 won't be what you want at 30 won't be what you want at 40, won't be what you want when kids are involved. More would do well to understand this and stop thinking they will always want the same things as they age and mature.

 

[Gamisch]

Some men (childless or single fathers) can pull off having casual, uncommitted sex with a single mom for a short period of time. Even in these arrangements, a man needs a lot of patience because scheduling get togethers with single moms can be challenging with her parenting time commitments.

Longer term, the lifestyle differences between a childless man and a single mom are difficult to reconcile.

I don't think a childless man is well positioned for an LTR with a single mom. I feel neutral about a childless man pursuing a shorter term arrangement with a single mom. Single dads and single moms can work in an LTR.

After age 30, and especially between 35-44, a lot of men will experience issues with attracting women and might even end up settling for a single mom.

Let's look a decent hypothetical case of this of a man in the United States market....

-40 year old White man
-$90,000-$120,000 annual salary from a white collar job
-little to no debt, bachelor's or advanced level degree is either fully paid off or mostly paid off, non-housing debt is minimal
-6.5 in looks, not overweight, goes to gym and/or plays a sport regularly (in adequate shape but not like a @sangheilios top guy at the gym status). Less than 3 tattoos and none visible
-5'9"-5'11" in height, specifically keeping this height around average and not at women's 6'0"+ preference
-Some Game knowledge but by no means an expert
-Social circle is mostly married people with children. Guy has effectively no social circle options
-Lives in a metro area with 500,000+ in population

Who is going to be interested in this man for an LTR when his options are swipe apps, social media DMs, and cold approaches?

Despite this man being a decent option, he'll struggle to get attention regardless of which method he chooses.

The majority of childless women close to his own age won't be impressed with his income or possessions despite his salary being decent. Childless women close to his own age are careerists. Many of them have gotten preferential treatment in hiring and their salaries are close to equal.

His income, possessions, and net worth are not large enough to get a childless woman 10-15 years younger.

He's most appealing to single moms close to his own age looking for beta bucks.

Absolutely true. But it also matters what the man is after. A series relationship or just some notches and experience?

Ive dated single mothers before I became a father myself and you are right; its extremely awkward, and if you are not familiar with the baby mommy/ baby dad dynamics you'll get a frustrated relationship at best. At worst her baby dad becomes your enemy for life .

A child is the ultimate "left something at an ex crib" reason to get back in touch and to feck and cheat on current partners. Even when you are with her for a longer period of time she might always go back to her baby daddy . Him getting a simple job can be enough reason to give him another shot and dump you.

 

[Gamisch]

1 thing we dont talk about imo, is that your notch count should be on a certain number in your twenties, perhaps even teens.

As a teen/early twentysomething man you'll have most access to women. If you dont capitalize on this, it will influence your notch count. I had a notch of at least 50 before i was 25.

I woukd like to add to this, that learning game is like learning how to box. The earlier in life you pick it up,the better.

AND ,eventually you'll have to "box your way "into the game of dating women. No way around it. So salute to @jessepinkman ,because he basically says that even though 30,s is late: never late is better, but better late than never.

Eventually you MUST go out to the cold streets to get rejected at least a 100 times. You MUST be able to chat up every woman, in every environment at any given time. If you missed out on this in your teens/20's, you better do it in your 30s. Or you'll enter 40 /50 league with the (lack of) gaming ability like a 12 year old boy. Thats how a grown woman will look at a man without any game; like he's a child.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Because I have kids and I don't want to have to worry how she will interact with them or if she even likes kids. I also relate to them better since we have shared experiences with kids.

Different life stages bro...you aren't going to want the same things at every life stage. What you want at 20 won't be what you want at 30 won't be what you want at 40, won't be what you want when kids are involved. More would do well to understand this and stop thinking they will always want the same things as they age and mature.

Even if you have kids I still have to respectfully disagree. From personal experience, my dad did marry a woman with kids and it just turned in to a whole chaos of competition and you can’t treat my kids like that. He then remarried my now step mom who was childless and she was able to focus her energy on raising me and my sister and eventually kids of their own. Regardless, this is a cope because a fertile childless woman will always beat a single mom without question.

 

[Gamisch]

Even if you have kids I still have to respectfully disagree. From personal experience, my dad did marry a woman with kids and it just turned in to a whole chaos of competition and you can’t treat my kids like that. He then remarried my now step mom who was childless and she was able to focus her energy on raising me and my sister and eventually kids of their own. Regardless, this is a cope because a fertile childless woman will always beat a single mom without question.

Its seems that (logically) this relationship you describe is what formed your beliefs. But you must take into consideration that relationships have changed. Back in the days( no pun intended) people would have "less colors " to frame relationships. You either were together or you weren't, meaning you would simply mingle families without thinking ahead how this will affect your own kids. Little you know whats going on between the kids on the playground or upstairs in the playstation room while you are cuddling each other..

Now we have dating, fwb ,situationships ect. I,ve dated single moms that only invited after their kid(s) were asleep.

I never mingle my kid with their kids. And yes, ofcourse we all prefer a childless woman over a single mother UNLESS you have kids yourself and you feel comfortable with a woman knowing how to handle children.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Even if you have kids I still have to respectfully disagree. From personal experience, my dad did marry a woman with kids and it just turned in to a whole chaos of competition and you can’t treat my kids like that. He then remarried my now step mom who was childless and she was able to focus her energy on raising me and my sister and eventually kids of their own. Regardless, this is a cope because a fertile childless woman will always beat a single mom without question.

Like many on here, your personal experiences growing up had a negative impact on you for certain things that don't allow you to have unbiased opinions. In general, yes stuff like this happens. But so do families that blend well together. You can't get past the fact this didn't happen for you growing up so in your mind that's the way it always is.

Again, it depends what you want out of your life. I don't want any more kids so I am not sure what a woman being fertile has to do with anything. If anything that would be a negative. Not trying to have a kid in diapers again.

 

[Fortune_favors_the_bold]

If you are in your 30s in a decent physical shape and decent social position, getting laid is much easier than before but only if you are fine getting girls 28 and above.

 

[Knight of Roses]

The biggest disadvantage is that your social circle tends to close off in early 30s as many of your friends either move away for career or get married. You’re not in school or college anymore so you’re not meeting a plethora of girls like you were before.

So while intrinsically there isn’t much difference regarding age itself. It’s just that it’s harder to meet people as you Get older

 

[CornbreadFed]

Its seems that (logically) this relationship you describe is what formed your beliefs. But you must take into consideration that relationships have changed. Back in the days( no pun intended) people would have "less colors " to frame relationships. You either were together or you weren't, meaning you would simply mingle families without thinking ahead how this will affect your own kids. Little you know whats going on between the kids on the playground or upstairs in the playstation room while you are cuddling each other..

Now we have dating, fwb ,situationships ect. I,ve dated single moms that only invited after their kid(s) were asleep.

I never mingle my kid with their kids. And yes, ofcourse we all prefer a childless woman over a single mother UNLESS you have kids yourself and you feel comfortable with a woman knowing how to handle children.

Like many on here, your personal experiences growing up had a negative impact on you for certain things that don't allow you to have unbiased opinions. In general, yes stuff like this happens. But so do families that blend well together. You can't get past the fact this didn't happen for you growing up so in your mind that's the way it always is.

Again, it depends what you want out of your life. I don't want any more kids so I am not sure what a woman being fertile has to do with anything. If anything that would be a negative. Not trying to have a kid in diapers again.

It just seems you guys are jumping through hoops and relying on fate to date these single moms on top of the typical issues that come with dating women. What if your kids do not get along long term? What if you change your mind and want a kid with this woman? What if the baby daddy causes drama? Y’all are really looking at these situations present tense rather than future tense. A non single mom brings none of this baggage whatsoever, so I do not see the point in choosing a single mom over a non single mom.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

How To Beast recently released a video about how the lives of men starts at 30 but in his video, he never really talked as much about game and outcomes. He never answered the question so many younger dudes want to know the answer to and one I get DM'd about a lot, can guys over the age of 30 sleep with lots of different women? The Red Pill never truly answered this question, it just released a phony chart based on loose bro-science which talked about how women would want to date you more in your 30s versus your 20s because of SMV.

When we look at someone like How To Beast, we also realize that he has a girlfriend.

A lot of guys asking me this are in their 20s, struggling with life, and cannot prioritize dating and meeting women. I understand, for a part of my 20s, I was living at home with parents and in a boring suburb so getting my sh-t together was more crucial than chasing tail. This year, I will turn 31. Some of us do want to make up on that lost time or get ours before we finally decide to settle down.

To answer the question, can a guy over the of 30 meet and sleep with lots of new women? The answer from my experiences and observations has been yes but it is somewhat different.

I notice that guys in their 30s who get laid a lot have a different vibe to them that I think men must adopt as they get older or they will struggle.

It is a disadvantage.

Once you are past the age of 25 or even 22, the idea of sleeping with lots of different women becomes frowned upon. The idea of using women for sex and only hooking up becomes frowned upon. Even in media, they are pushing young men and older women as sexual with the rise of "Cougar" porn while trying to take older men out of the picture. I don't want to waste a lot of time on the politics and war on men that the Red Pill does, I just want you to know that once you are over the age of 30, women are less likely to want to just sleep with you unless there is commitment.

Even look at the manosphere and other masculine spaces, LOTS of shaming towards men over 30 that just want to sleep around with random women. Expect the world to be against you.

Being cool and fit beats your career and money.

Women no longer care about money and your career anymore, they are financially set themselves. They are entering college in droves and taking up management roles left and right. The men winning in the dating market are usually fit and cool along with being set enough financially. They are more of a Hollywood Star type of 30 and not an office middle manager 30. Being cool and being fit beats the fancy white collar job title or the yearly salary. However, you do need some money in order to get there.

Living in a big city is a MUST.

The whole "get married and have kids by 30" is still making a huge push in middle America and small towns/small cities. You will suffer greatly and have women try to lock you down left and right. If you are not set on getting married and having kids, you must live in a major city like an NYC or a London. In NYC, it was not uncommon for me to run into guys well into 30s that partied, chased women, got laid, and had sex with a lot of different women. Big cities, and I mean WORLD CLASS CITIES, are the only viable living options for you as a man over the age of 30 if you want to sleep with lots of different women. Try doing it anywhere else and you will face major hurdles.

In these cities, you are likely to find a lot of women DTF and even a solid set of guy friends who support you sleeping with lots of different women.

You learn to stop wasting time.

This means not spending hours arguing on internet forums like you used to. I think that the reason The Black Pill and Incel communities are loaded with younger dudes is because they have all the time in the world to waste. When you get older, you come to terms with your mortality. No more time spent mentally masturbating, theorizing, or any of that nonsense. No more time spent on crappy friends that waste it. No more time to waste on crappy wingmen. No more time to waste reading nonsense black pill theory and debating it.

This is why so many incel movements are flooded with younger dudes, because younger dudes have all the time in the world to waste.

Most importantly, this means no time wasted chasing women that play games.

I have noticed that older guys zero down fast. They are not trying to push through rejections or trying to push through maybes or trying to get with girls that play too many games. Older guys are focusing on girls that are real options and investing all of their energy there.

Younger guys will try to get 100% of the girls and give their time to each one equally. Older guys focus on the 10 to 20% of women that are actual options and spend all of their time there, the other women may as well not exist. You learn to get over rejection fast and just give less f*cks.

You have to become obsessed with it and truly make it the top priority.

The city you live in.

The friends you make.

The content you consume.

The info you take in.

The lifestyle you live.

It has to all revolve around getting laid.

This means cutting ties with otherwise good friends who have an issue with you sleeping with lots of different women.

This means even cutting ties with family that are trying to get you to settle down.

It has to become such an obsession that you will value it over all else in life.

Some say what about money and fitness? Well, as I covered, those things matter a ton for getting laid. You need money to live in a world class city and you need to be in good health to go out and game constantly.

See Draper. Don.

 

[DonJuanjr]

If you missed out on this in your teens/20's, you better do it in your 30s. Or you'll enter 40 /50 league with the (lack of) gaming ability like a 12 year old boy. Thats how a grown woman will look at a man without any game; like he's a child.

I'm thinking they look at men in their 30s like this as well. This is putting major pressure on me at 35.

 

[Gamisch]

It just seems you guys are jumping through hoops and relying on fate to date these single moms on top of the typical issues that come with dating women. What if your kids do not get along long term? What if you change your mind and want a kid with this woman? What if the baby daddy causes drama? Y’all are really looking at these situations present tense rather than future tense. A non single mom brings none of this baggage whatsoever, so I do not see the point in choosing a single mom over a non single mom.

We're going in circles now but oke.

You seem future oriented, while when i date a single mother it's more about "just having fun" for me. No difference from dating any other woman...I already have a 12y.o Kid so i dont neccesarily need to breed again.

She can be a cool, hot and good in the sack type of woman thats fun to be around..I rather pick a single mother with these features than a childless dramatic woman just because she has no kids. And yes, after 27/30 childless women aren't necessarily more fun to be around. Huge chance she might've had an abortion or two because she THOUGHT she would be a more attractive prospect once she hits 30. Little she knew the abortion would put her MILES behind those women that kept their children (on the happiness scale. )I've yest to meet a woman older than that absolutely doesn't want kids.

Do you even have experience with dating single mothers?

I'm thinking they look at men in their 30s like this as well. This is putting major pressure on me at 35.

You put major pressure on you. You might be missing out on some great women due your own laws and rules. You might dismiss a woman and pick a worst option simply because she is childless.

At 35 you are either gamed up enough to be this picky, or you must lower your standard a little to have much more fun.

 

[DonJuanjr]

You put major pressure on you. You might be missing out on some great women due your own laws and rules. You might dismiss a woman and pick a worst option simply because she is childless.

At 35 you are either gamed up enough to be this picky, or you must lower your standard a little to have much more fun.

I think you're confusing me with another poster? I am not above dumpster diving and single moms... I'm just pressured about the ticking clock to get good at game, at which point if it's not good enough, the difficulty will be compounded.

 

[Gamisch]

I think you're confusing me with another poster? I am not above dumpster diving and single moms... I'm just pressured about the ticking clock to get good at game, at which point if it's not good enough, the difficulty will be compounded.

I did i am sorry. I thought both posts were from cornbread.

 

[CornbreadFed]

We're going in circles now but oke.

You seem future oriented, while when i date a single mother it's more about "just having fun" for me. No difference from dating any other woman...I already have a 12y.o Kid so i dont neccesarily need to breed again.

She can be a cool, hot and good in the sack type of woman thats fun to be around..I rather pick a single mother with these features than a childless dramatic woman just because she has no kids. And yes, after 27/30 childless women aren't necessarily more fun to be around. Huge change she might've had an abortion or two because she THOUGHT she would be a more attractive prospect once she hits 30. Little she knew the abortion would put her MILES behind those women that kept their children (on the happiness scale. )I've yest to meet a woman older than that absolutely doesn't want kids.

Do you even have experience with dating single mothers?

Dating wise I am future oriented because I just don’t find meaningless sex a top priority. I like going on dates/vacations and having wonderful experiences with the women I date. Plus, I value my alone time, so dating multiple women isn’t my cup of tea either.

No I do not have any experience dating single mothers from the fact I have never had them as an available option. However, I am a product of a separated/step parent household and I am thankful that my dad chose wisely with my step mom. Yes, your single mom gf might be cool and good and bed, but I will always choose a version of her without the kid.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

We're going in circles now but oke.

You seem future oriented, while when i date a single mother it's more about "just having fun" for me. No difference from dating any other woman...I already have a 12y.o Kid so i dont neccesarily need to breed again.

She can be a cool, hot and good in the sack type of woman thats fun to be around..I rather pick a single mother with these features than a childless dramatic woman just because she has no kids. And yes, after 27/30 childless women aren't necessarily more fun to be around. Huge change she might've had an abortion or two because she THOUGHT she would be a more attractive prospect once she hits 30. Little she knew the abortion would put her MILES behind those women that kept their children (on the happiness scale. )I've yest to meet a woman older than that absolutely doesn't want kids.

Do you even have experience with dating single mothers?


You put major pressure on you. You might be missing out on some great women due your own laws and rules. You might dismiss a woman and pick a worst option simply because she is childless.

At 35 you are either gamed up enough to be this picky, or you must lower your standard a little to have much more fun.

Additionally after a certain age a woman without children is a massive red flag.

 

[CornbreadFed]

You put major pressure on you. You might be missing out on some great women due your own laws and rules. You might dismiss a woman and pick a worst option simply because she is childless.

At 35 you are either gamed up enough to be this picky, or you must lower your standard a little to have much more fun.

The fact is that I do want to share valuable experiences and eventually start a family with the right woman and I will never be able to do that with a single mom. I don’t care about clubbing and having one night stands with Fiona Gallagher from Shameless lol, that just turns me off completely.

 

[DonJuanjr]

I had a good job in corporate engineering, made good money, nice house, nice cars, a hobby that attracts women, and an extroverted personality that was working all the dating sites and going out 2-3nites a week. I still went to the gym 3 days a week. There wasn't much time for anything else. I've always been a "hunter" with high energy. Once I got things figured out I rarely ever got turned down for a 2nd date. Lots of first nite lays. All types of girls.

What if one is introverted with a low end job, a hobby that attracts women, but done alone due to costs, and average looks, and a personality that's not particularly suave? Do you think one can just take @Atom Smasher philosophy of judging women and turn it around solely with that mindset?