Turning a NO into a YES

[Roober]

Why would a guy "negotiate" a chick meeting up and especially selling "just friends" as part of the deal?

He proposed friends for an opportunity for sex. More opportunities = more chances for success. Worse case scenario, he woos her and adds someone to his social circle.

 

[Spaz]

He proposed friends for an opportunity for sex. More opportunities = more chances for success. Worse case scenario, he woos her and adds someone to his social circle.

That's what a man thinks, in reality it works the other way round.

The man usually ends up being the orbiter.

 

[Spaz]

Why would a guy "negotiate" a chick meeting up and especially selling "just friends" as part of the deal?

Plenty of men does it.

I've seen it myself how they go to great lengths to achieve it.

And the women lapping it up..

Personally I would have cut her loose and move on as that deal is then subjective with no clear end result for me.

The man is then playing within a woman's frame - something which women seems to immensely enjoy.

 

[Glassguy]

That's what a man thinks, in reality it works the other way round.

The man usually ends up being the orbiter.

I agree.
Make your intent know covertly with a woman. LJBF means move on. Why spend precious time on this earth chasing one chick that overtly denied you?

 

[Spaz]

I agree.
Make your intent know covertly with a woman. LJBF means move on. Why spend precious time on this earth chasing one chick that overtly denied you?

Oh she knows OP's intent.

Women aren't noobies when it comes to this - they are naturally hardwired to win in matters of romance.

She took to the offer as he handed over power to her via the friendship offer.

Her objective - keeping him in the background as backup should the main man fails.

And if she's good, even using OP to make the main man work even harder to gain her affections.

For a man to win he must never play within a woman's game.

It's he who must set the game and she play within it.

 

[flowtheory]

But if she were truly interested in the guy she’s exclusive with, why would she take the date? There must be part of her that is unsure. And I think OP is illuminating that crack. Because a high interest woman in her man would not even entertain the ‘business friend opportunity’, right? Because she damn well knows Dash is after more, because he already stated that’s what his intent is by saying he’s the better catch.


I’m almost positive Dash could nail her. It would be a different situation if her and dash had already been on a date. Then she chose a different guy and now he was trying to garner her interest again. The. He would be just friend zoned and wasting his time. But in her mind she’s open to meeting better; which she may believe dash is, currently. This is an example of hypergamy in a sense.

 

[Roober]

That's what a man thinks, in reality it works the other way round.

The man usually ends up being the orbiter.

Yes, a man COULD end up being an orbiter. I imagine dash is far more in tune to fall into that, which is what he alluded to. I think it's a very low risk scenario. He could attain a plate, or a plate for the future (when the gf is dumped), or maybe even some sort of beneficial business contact. And if something better comes along? He cancels.

For example, on business a man propositions his coworker to get a drink. She is resistant, but eventually agrees to the harmless invitation. Once the drinks and charm flow, she is literally begging him to fvck her. Trust me, it happens. =).

As Wayne Gretzky said, "you only miss the shots you dont take"

 

[samspade]

He proposed friends for an opportunity for sex. More opportunities = more chances for success. Worse case scenario, he woos her and adds someone to his social circle.

Agree with this. It's not a huge investment of time or money, just a night out. He'll only become an orbiter if he lets that happen - I think the OP knows how to handle it. I get that the endgame is sex, but that doesn't have to be the only thing in life and at the very least you've gotta take the blinders off. That is, a enjoy fun night out with a pretty girl with the possibility of sex (anticipation, opportunity). Plus he already changed her mind on one count, who knows where else it could go. Obviously don't repeat the process if it's going nowhere.

 

[Trump]

Yes, a man COULD end up being an orbiter. I imagine dash is far more in tune to fall into that, which is what he alluded to. I think it's a very low risk scenario. He could attain a plate, or a plate for the future (when the gf is dumped), or maybe even some sort of beneficial business contact. And if something better comes along? He cancels.

It’s not about getting a new plate or having sex, it’s about the proper mindset. It’s about controlling your emotional response. It’s about her wanting to be with you because you are (allegedly) higher value. In OPS case, the girl cancelled and he came back begging. Ridiculous.

If you were trying to go out with a 26 year good looking girl and she says “I have a boyfriend, good luck.” Would you say: “let’s please be platonic friends and see where it goes?” And then be happy she said “ok?” Or would you move on in 2 seconds?

Come on, time is precious. Wake up.

 

[Spaz]

Yes, a man COULD end up being an orbiter. I imagine dash is far more in tune to fall into that, which is what he alluded to. I think it's a very low risk scenario. He could attain a plate, or a plate for the future (when the gf is dumped), or maybe even some sort of beneficial business contact. And if something better comes along? He cancels.

For example, on business a man propositions his coworker to get a drink. She is resistant, but eventually agrees to the harmless invitation. Once the drinks and charm flow, she is literally begging him to fvck her. Trust me, it happens. =).

As Wayne Gretzky said, "you only miss the shots you dont take"

It's not about Dash nor is it about something beneficial that comes along.

It's about how a man thinks that puts him in a winning position all the time - every time.

Since you're used business as an analogy, I will expand on what I mean using the same.

Looking at Dash perspective, in this business deal, he's the salesman and she's the buyer.

The buyer has already bought the product and rejected his product - but Dash is persistent and the buyer acknowledges his salesmanship by joining him for drinks etc.

The power therefore is always at the buyers feet as she has salesman's selling their products - in which who has the best to offer - she'll buy.

The woman is now the Prize to be won over.

She's the driver and the men around her are mere passengers jostling to get to the front seats.

This is exactly where ALL women want men to be - within the palm of their little hands, ticking off little boxes within their subconscious mind on how best he molds into her perfect man.

Now flip it over and make urself as the Prize - you as the driver and women as passengers.

Think yourselves as the businessman who's buying products from sales girl's.

How would you then operate ?

I would be interested to know who exactly here has what mindset.


Side note: If u r a poor businessman without much to offer then there won't be any sales girl selling anything to you anytime soon.

You'll end up being a passenger jostling for seats amongst many other men.

Just pray and hope it's not a busload.

 

[Glassguy]

Best of luck to OP. I hope he can nail her.

I am not at all a fan of giving up your frame and "begging" a woman out on a......well what ever this is. Add to it that his offer was purely platonic.

So they go out on a date and have a decent time. He interprets a few of her actions as IOIs and moves in to kiss her. Do you know what is going to happen? She is going to say "I told you that I have a BF and you said that you were cool just being friends".

Why jump through the hoops for a result like that which is extremely probable when you could use that same amount of time in the gym, going out with a chick who is actually available (or at least acts available), etc?

But if she were truly interested in the guy she’s exclusive with, why would she take the date?

Because women love attention and validation. He just handed it to her with NO STRINGS ATTACHED. Its a win/win for her. Free drinks, make the bf jealous and step up his game, attention, another orbiter, the list goes on and on.

What does she have to do? Just show up (assuming she shows up). She already has the trump card of "we agreed to just be friends" in her pocket, that he gladly gave her, to fall back on in case he starts making moves.

I have banged a plenty of chicks who had BFs. I didnt know it at the time because they didnt tell me. Want to know why they didnt tell me? Because they had crazy high interest and that was all that matters.

This chick telling him up front = waste of time IMO but I hope OP proves me wrong.

 

[guru1000]

What some of you miss here is a high value man Is high value regardless of his words or actions. A high value man can tell her he loves her on the first date, buy her a box of chocolates, say they are now best friends forever, and then take her home to bang her brains out and then disappear too.

I’d go further to say that to refrain from such acts because of your “value” means you either don’t have that value to understand the above distinction or are insecure about that value to the extent that you have to fit into a certain paradigm as all acts outside the paradigm threatens your value

These “rules” that some of you subscribe to are for low value men attempting to be (or to look like) high value. A high value man can do ANYTHING and he is still high value. Think about that.

In fact these days, I would much rather enter this frame than the standard first date frame, as the first date “game” is already on easy mode, like taking candy from a baby. I’d prefer challenge for a change, that is a more “difficult mode” to keep me amused.

 

[Dash Riprock]

But if she were truly interested in the guy she’s exclusive with, why would she take the date? There must be part of her that is unsure. And I think OP is illuminating that crack. Because a high interest woman in her man would not even entertain the ‘business friend opportunity’, right? Because she damn well knows Dash is after more, because he already stated that’s what his intent is by saying he’s the better catch.


I’m almost positive Dash could nail her. It would be a different situation if her and dash had already been on a date. Then she chose a different guy and now he was trying to garner her interest again. The. He would be just friend zoned and wasting his time. But in her mind she’s open to meeting better; which she may believe dash is, currently. This is an example of hypergamy in a sense.

This.

I'm speaking from experience here: the key to success in life is taking chances and interacting with the people whom you need to make things happen. Job interview--you need to get to THE hiring manager. Sales--you need to get to the DECISION MAKER. Girls--you need to actually MEET THEM.

So yes, the business/platonic comments were meant mainly to disarm her a bit but as @flowtheory writes, she took it and even called it a "date." She also drove an hour in rush hour traffic to meet me, I walked two blocks from my office. I went into this with IDGAF, because I wanted to have some fun after work, already had my change of clothes, and was jut up for some fun and drinks. I really didn't care she had a "boyfriend" and obviously, she didn't either.

Onto the date:

She met me on time at a nice bar/restaurant. She looked really good, better than her pics, probably a 8.5/10. From Kansas, recently moved to Denver--and you could tell. We had drinks, tapas, talked, laughed and I hit her with quite a few C&F remarks, but once again, IDGAF, and it was for my own entertainment. After the tapas, I took her to a "haunted" bar built in the 1930's really cool, and then we went to another place. She touched me a few times telling stories and I stroked her a little, also, throughout. She was definitely seeing me as more than a platonic guy - trust me, I've been in the game many years and can read the signs. The wrinkle was when we went to the last place, the server said we could take our food and drinks downstairs because there was a comedy show. Initially, it sounded good so we went and grabbed good seats. The comedians were just ok. Disappointing thing was it was really loud, you couldn't talk, and we sat through maybe 5-6 of them after about an hour, so it also kind of killed the vibe we had going. Finally, I said I have to bounce and grabbed for my coat and told her to come along. We got my car and I drove her to her's. It was about 11:30 PM (Wednesday night) so we'd been hanging out for about 5.5 hours. I gave her a hug and kiss and said goodnight and drove off. That's it.

Did I have fun? YES. And that was my goal. Would she hang with me for almost 6 hours on a work night if there was no interest? Probably not.

Not sure if I'll pursue her or not. PLUSES: hot, good shape, similar interests, athletic, smart, decent job, Midwestern girl, never came off as slutty, took my C&F well--even when I teased that I thought she was maybe a bit autistic (should have seen her reaction--priceless) lol. NEGATIVES: lives more than an hour away from me is a big #1, the impending "boyfriend," and tacit acknowledgements of her being a feminist.

So, there you have it. Name of the game: MEET HER and charm her. I did. Maybe I'll see her again, maybe I won't. IDGAF, next batter up either way.

The End.

~Dash

 

[Dr.Suave]

This.

I'm speaking from experience here: the key to success in life is taking chances and interacting with the people whom you need to make things happen. Job interview--you need to get to THE hiring manager. Sales--you need to get to the DECISION MAKER. Girls--you need to actually MEET THEM.

So yes, the business/platonic comments were meant mainly to disarm her a bit but as @flowtheory writes, she took it and even called it a "date." She also drove an hour in rush hour traffic to meet me, I walked two blocks from my office. I went into this with IDGAF, because I wanted to have some fun after work, already had my change of clothes, and was jut up for some fun and drinks. I really didn't care she had a "boyfriend" and obviously, she didn't either.

Onto the date:

She met me on time at a nice bar/restaurant. She looked really good, better than her pics, probably a 8.5/10. From Kansas, recently moved to Denver--and you could tell. We had drinks, tapas, talked, laughed and I hit her with quite a few C&F remarks, but once again, IDGAF, and it was for my own entertainment. After the tapas, I took her to a "haunted" bar built in the 1930's really cool, and then we went to another place. She touched me a few times telling stories and I stroked her a little, also, throughout. She was definitely seeing me as more than a platonic guy - trust me, I've been in the game many years and can read the signs. The wrinkle was when we went to the last place, the server said we could take our food and drinks downstairs because there was a comedy show. Initially, it sounded good so we went and grabbed good seats. The comedians were just ok. Disappointing thing was it was really loud, you couldn't talk, and we sat through maybe 5-6 of them after about an hour, so it also kind of killed the vibe we had going. Finally, I said I have to bounce and grabbed for my coat and told her to come along. We got my car and I drove her to her's. It was about 11:30 PM (Wednesday night) so we'd been hanging out for about 5.5 hours. I gave her a hug and kiss and said goodnight and drove off. That's it.

Did I have fun? YES. And that was my goal. Would she hang with me for almost 6 hours on a work night if there was no interest? Probably not.

Not sure if I'll pursue her or not. PLUSES: hot, good shape, similar interests, athletic, smart, decent job, Midwestern girl, never came off as slutty, took my C&F well--even when I teased that I thought she was maybe a bit autistic (should have seen her reaction--priceless) lol. NEGATIVES: lives more than an hour away from me is a big #1, the impending "boyfriend," and tacit acknowledgements of her being a feminist.

So, there you have it. Name of the game: MEET HER and charm her. I did. Maybe I'll see her again, maybe I won't. IDGAF, next batter up either way.

The End.

~Dash

So I guess this is the part we wait a certain amount of type before texting the girl?

Please do keep us posted. I´m curious how this is gonna play out.

 

[Dash Riprock]

So I guess this is the part we wait a certain amount of type before texting the girl?

Please do keep us posted. I´m curious how this is gonna play out.

Yeah, that's the dealio right now. Not sure if or when I'll ping her. Not into LTRs right now so don't want to be that guy. We did talk about snowshoeing in the Rockies so maybe I'll hit her up in a couple weeks.

 

[flowtheory]

Damn. Sucks to be the guy she’s in current exclusive relationship with.

So she went out with @Dash Riprock because her guy isn’t high value, yes?

 

[Dash Riprock]

Damn. Sucks to be the guy she’s in current exclusive relationship with.

Lol, all is fair in love and war.

 

[jnMissouri]

Great points here. Sometimes I get so caught up in moving quickly with women and having a take-it-or-leave-it attitude that I don't consider how something I say may make her feel, especially if I think she's lying about it (like saying she has a boyfriend when she really doesn't). The main points I'm taking away from this are that you can't have the opportunity to seduce if you don't get a F2F audience with her, and given the fact that women will lie about why they can't meet you, I don't see any issue with stretching the truth as to your intentions in why you want to meet her in order to get that F2F audience with her where you can work your magic. And secondly, if she is saying she has a boyfriend, even if you KNOW she's lying, you have to think about how she thinks she is going to look saying "yes" to meet you after telling you she has a boyfriend (even if she obviously knows she is lying). To Guru's point, you are basically insulting her if you still ask her out, by insinuating that she is a sl*t.

A possible example of this from a recent experience of mine with an ex (we dated a little over a year ago): I bumped into her at a couple social events recently and she was giving me tons of IOIs. Went out to dinner and drinks with her and a couple others and she was giving me "the look" constantly. She is extremely feminine and at least likes to give the outward impression that she is a "good-girl" type (I don't believe that she is at all). My next move was to invite her to my place over text. She didn't even respond. That may have been too forward for her and possibly insulted her "good-girl" image. Had I asked her to go out and do something instead, she may have been more likely to say yes and I could have worked my magic to get her back to my place from there. However, in this case, because she is an ex and she broke things off with me, I'm not willing to do the dating song-and-dance with her, so no loss.

Yeah, I have had good girls that were 9's who would not come over directly (though many other have come) but on the first date they would come back to my place but say "I dont usually do this" before getting in my truck at the time...

 

[marmel75]

This.

I'm speaking from experience here: the key to success in life is taking chances and interacting with the people whom you need to make things happen. Job interview--you need to get to THE hiring manager. Sales--you need to get to the DECISION MAKER. Girls--you need to actually MEET THEM.

So yes, the business/platonic comments were meant mainly to disarm her a bit but as @flowtheory writes, she took it and even called it a "date." She also drove an hour in rush hour traffic to meet me, I walked two blocks from my office. I went into this with IDGAF, because I wanted to have some fun after work, already had my change of clothes, and was jut up for some fun and drinks. I really didn't care she had a "boyfriend" and obviously, she didn't either.

Onto the date:

She met me on time at a nice bar/restaurant. She looked really good, better than her pics, probably a 8.5/10. From Kansas, recently moved to Denver--and you could tell. We had drinks, tapas, talked, laughed and I hit her with quite a few C&F remarks, but once again, IDGAF, and it was for my own entertainment. After the tapas, I took her to a "haunted" bar built in the 1930's really cool, and then we went to another place. She touched me a few times telling stories and I stroked her a little, also, throughout. She was definitely seeing me as more than a platonic guy - trust me, I've been in the game many years and can read the signs. The wrinkle was when we went to the last place, the server said we could take our food and drinks downstairs because there was a comedy show. Initially, it sounded good so we went and grabbed good seats. The comedians were just ok. Disappointing thing was it was really loud, you couldn't talk, and we sat through maybe 5-6 of them after about an hour, so it also kind of killed the vibe we had going. Finally, I said I have to bounce and grabbed for my coat and told her to come along. We got my car and I drove her to her's. It was about 11:30 PM (Wednesday night) so we'd been hanging out for about 5.5 hours. I gave her a hug and kiss and said goodnight and drove off. That's it.

Did I have fun? YES. And that was my goal. Would she hang with me for almost 6 hours on a work night if there was no interest? Probably not.

Not sure if I'll pursue her or not. PLUSES: hot, good shape, similar interests, athletic, smart, decent job, Midwestern girl, never came off as slutty, took my C&F well--even when I teased that I thought she was maybe a bit autistic (should have seen her reaction--priceless) lol. NEGATIVES: lives more than an hour away from me is a big #1, the impending "boyfriend," and tacit acknowledgements of her being a feminist.

So, there you have it. Name of the game: MEET HER and charm her. I did. Maybe I'll see her again, maybe I won't. IDGAF, next batter up either way.

The End.

~Dash

Seems like a lot of work and time to end up in the spot you were going to end up all along. I'm sure you'll spin this into a win somehow.

 

[Dr.Suave]

So what happened @Dash Riprock ? You decided to ghost?