Interesting Study...ugly guys who get hot women do so because they don't think they are ugly...

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

I would love to see these “ugly”men?

 

[Robert28]

I would love to see these “ugly”men?

They always claim to see them in public but never post pics for proof. I never see ugly men with attractive women where I live. I see average guys with women I think are attractive but it’s never, say, a 9 walking around with a 3. No way in hell.

 

[Robert28]

No you don't.

You don’t believe success breeds confidence?

 

[Robert28]

I disagree. Imho true confidence is linked to stoicism and absolute sense of self. The realization you cannot control anything in life but yourself. Succes obtained by outside factors is always fickle.Thats why some of these rich stars ( J Depp, w Smith MB Jordan ect) still embarrasse themselves and get addicted to all kinds of things, bc their definition of self doesn't seems solid, hence why their confidence isn't solid neither. Give them 100 more successful movies, their confidence wont go up.

New clothes ,money HB's ect might boost you confidence for a short period of time, but when that fades you'll be left with what is internal and self. Hence the dreaded " burn out" which occurs on all levels of society, also on levels the ( superficial) eye might describe as " successful ".

Exactly! Women are outside factors. In other words, men don’t need women to be truly happy. We shouldn’t care what any woman thinks about us or if she finds us attractive or whatever flaws she might see in us that disqualify us in her eyes to date or whatever. I’ve long since figured out my strengths and women aren’t one of them and that’s ok. I’m better at other things, and those things make me happy. I love financial stuff, my friends are constantly asking me about financial stuff and advice on what they should do or explain something to them. Women? Meh, I’ve sucked for 38 years, had some highs and lows with them but overall my batting average with them has been average at best. Never really learned “game” because trying to be someone I’m not just wasn’t for me. Women get on me all the time that I “don’t pursue”, you’re damn right I don’t and I never will. I’ve got better things to do than chase after them.

 

[Jake_Gyllenhaal69]

They always claim to see them in public but never post pics for proof. I never see ugly men with attractive women where I live. I see average guys with women I think are attractive but it’s never, say, a 9 walking around with a 3. No way in hell.

a girl could consider a guy we deem a Chad ugly because she prefers the SJW pajama boy type. Hell, we had a topic debating the attraction level of Pete Davidson. “Ugly” outside deformities and body fat is highly subjective!

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You don’t believe success breeds confidence?

It definitely helps, but to say that a person needs to have it to be confident isn't correct. Some people do not need it.

 

[Serenity]

It’s not that baffling.

When a guy, looking good or not, is constantly destroyed by Alpha men in junior, high school, college, workplace, and movies and tv and internet and music and real life only show the top, rich, sexy Alpha males get sex with all the hot young girls, where is he supposed to get the internal value from?

It likes society does everything it can to brainwash the young man; to prevent him from getting confidence and to value young women (when the rich, powerful celebs and politicians value young women), and then makes fun of him because he doesn’t have the confidence to get young women.

Where is a young man, where everything he sees and touches tells him young sexy woman are Gods, supposed to get confidence and game? 7-11 from 5 -8 pm on weekdays?

Come on.

You're not wrong in anything you mention here, it's a huge part of the causes for many guys getting an externalized sense of self. It's not baffling to me either how they end up like they do. However, I was referring to guys who have been made aware of that and still choose to live in ignorance. Like those who have read countless posts on this forum and had every opportunity to get the point, but still insists on trying to please the judgements of everyone around them.

I see I should have made myself clearer, but hopefully I did that now.

 

[Serenity]

If one isn't experiencing external validation, I don't think internal confidence can just be summoned with the thought "I'm good enough". I think there needs to be one instance of meaningful external validation to summon it.

What came first? The chicken or the egg? How is a guy supposed to get the initial validation if he regards himself so negatively that it sabotages any chance of inspiring anyone to give such validation?

If you're thinking that internal confidence doesn't come without external validation, then the confidence isn't really internal, it is in fact missing the point entirely about internal confidence as it does NOT rely on external validation. The validation is not important and receiving validation doesn't fix the issue anyways, it just gets a guy hooked on it to continue feeling good about himself. If he can't keep up and doesn't get as much validation today as he did yesterday, then his confidence is quashed and he's back to square one.

You have to have success to sustain that internal confidence though. If the success doesn’t come consistently then you’ll lose confidence fast.

This is again the weakness of externalized confidence, it depends entirely on circumstances, most of which are beyond your control. You KNOW confident people have more success, right? So what happens if for some reason your results get a bit weaker? Your confidence takes a hit. What do we know about confidence? That confident people have more success, so now your lack of success is further amplified by a lack of confidence caused by a lack of success. Congratulations, you're now in a downward spiral. But... Maybe your luck turns around, you did better today than you did yesterday, finally some success! So you feel more confident which amplifies your success and further amplifies your confidence, until luck turns around again...

You don't need success at all to sustain internal confidence, because success and failure doesn't define internal confidence. I have strong internal confidence and I ask myself whether or not I did my absolute best trying to achieve the result I desire. It doesn't matter to my confidence whether I succeed or fail, if I did my best with the circumstances and the information I had at the time of doing it, then that's all that matters to me. Often there's better information in hindsight, but the best I can do with that is to take it with me for next time. The entire world can tell me they disapprove of my performance, but if I know I did my best at the time then they can all go fvck themselves.

When it comes to women it's the same. I'm doing my best, if that's not good enough for some woman then I don't care about her. Maybe I see in hindsight something I think could have done better, cool, next time then. Besides, one doesn't have to study women for long before realizing it's literally impossible to please them all, some of them are going to hate you regardless of how you are. I don't feel like I'm unworthy of them, I feel like they're unworthy of me. Here I am, a magnificent specimen of a man and they're too blind to realize, what fools.

 

[DonJuanjr]

What came first? The chicken or the egg? How is a guy supposed to get the initial validation if he regards himself so negatively that it sabotages any chance of inspiring anyone to give such validation?

In this scenario the chicken came first... Who says a guy who's insecure doesn't get a couple glances from an attractive woman from across an aisle? She hasn't spoken to him, and doesn't know that he's not confident yet. It's just physical attraction. This should be all the validation that the guy would need.

If you're thinking that internal confidence doesn't come without external validation, then the confidence isn't really internal, it is in fact missing the point entirely about internal confidence as it does NOT rely on external validation. The validation is not important and receiving validation doesn't fix the issue anyways, it just gets a guy hooked on it to continue feeling good about himself. If he can't keep up and doesn't get as much validation today as he did yesterday, then his confidence is quashed and he's back to square one.

Says who? You? You're the expert on all things psychology? Who says a seed of external validation can't be a catalyst for the growth of internal confidence? Just like death can be a catalyst for life. Who says you need to keep "chasing validation" and if not, the confidence dies? Just KNOWING from one instance that you were attractive to an attractive woman, means there's no reason there wouldn't be others out there.

Being attractive happens to you, it isn't your choice. Behavior aside.. Either the person is or isn't attracted to you. The elephant man can exude all the confidence in the world, but there's no way that normal women would find him attractive. Think about a friend that you heard sing, that sucks.... They think they sound good, but it's the external validation that is reality. If they get booed off stage and laughed at, are they a good singer? What about a perfumer that makes a scent that they think is the most beautiful scent, but other people think it stinks.... Is the scent good smelling? All it takes is one person to agree that the singer sounds good, and the perfumer made a good smelling fragrance, to make it a reality.

 

[Serenity]

Says who? You? You're the expert on all things psychology? Who says a seed of external validation can't be a catalyst for the growth of internal confidence?

It can be a catalyst setting in motion a lot of changes, I'm saying it's not required. You initially argued you don't think it's possible without some initial validation, by the very nature of internal confidence I strongly disagree, no validation is required to get started.

Think about a friend that you heard sing, that sucks.... They think they sound good, but it's the external validation that is reality. If they get booed off stage and laughed at, are they a good singer? What about a perfumer that makes a scent that they think is the most beautiful scent, but other people think it stinks.... Is the scent good smelling? All it takes is one person to agree that the singer sounds good, and the perfumer made a good smelling fragrance, to make it a reality.

What's your point? I'm not telling anyone to be delusional and pretend not to hear constructive feedback, I'm telling guys to not cry and beat themselves up about it. I'm telling guys confidence doesn't have to depend on results. A good or bad performance on a stage doesn't define you, it's just feedback telling you there are things to improve for next time or that you did reasonably well. You don't need the validation to feel good about yourself, you should have that from knowing you did your best, even if your best was terrible.

Being attractive happens to you, it isn't your choice. Behavior aside.. Either the person is or isn't attracted to you. The elephant man can exude all the confidence in the world, but there's no way that normal women would find him attractive.

This is only true if you're already doing your absolute best with what you know, if you're not doing your best then it is your choice to forsake some of the opportunities you could have had.

 

[EyeBRollin]

“There are no ugly billionaires.”

 

[Who Dares Win]

The guy that bench presses his own body weight does it because he tried with a positive mindset or because he did already and knows it?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Nice read.

The researchers wrote: "Essentially, men who rated themselves high on attractiveness were more likely to over perceive women’s interest. The more attractive they actually were to women, however, the more likely they were to under perceive.

There is a nugget in that paragraph for those that might have missed it. On the flip side indifference can be percieved as attractive a long with knowing you look good.

Overpercieve interest = they thought women were giving them a green light so they went for it more often.

 

[DonJuanjr]

On the flip side indifference can be percieved as attractive a long with knowing you look good.

How does one know they're attractive?

 

[BackInTheGame78]

How does one know they're attractive?

Either they believe it due to internal reasons or external reasons.

 

[IKO69]

How does one know they're attractive?

By the amount of attention you are getting and the quality of the girl. If you've had some nice looking girls interested in you then you can assume you are attractive. Note : let's say a fattie or two have liked you also, this doesn't suggest anything about being lower tier or something. I have heard men grumble about this before.

If not there you need to raise your profile and you'll get there. Earlier when I was getting lunch I saw one fella with a cute girlfriend, they were holding hands. This was a run of the mill guy with a pudgy belly who was definitely not a "Chad".

 

[DonJuanjr]

Always assume every girl you talk to wants you.

Unless the guys is narcissistic, this just isn't realistic. What is realistic is seeing that one was attractive to an attractive person, and knowing there's no reason others wouldn't think so.

 

[Kotaix]

Again this goes to show that confidence is assumed and projected, not earned. If you believe in yourself you can accomplish things that everyone tells you you can't accomplish. This goes beyond women into many other aspects of life including work.

Maybe the ugly guys in the article are just narcissistic. It's a little hard to have that kind of confidence, if it wasn't reinforced by the opposite sex throughout life.

If you listen to haters or always measure yourself against others then you can always find a reason to not be good enough, and you never will be. They key is to not care and not take it personally if a woman doesn't think you're hot. It's only Narcissism when you're solipsistic or think that you're somehow better than everyone else.

 

[Kotaix]

Unless the guys is narcissistic, this just isn't realistic. What is realistic is seeing that one was attractive to an attractive person, and knowing there's no reason others wouldn't think so.

Why isn't this realistic? It's just an assumption that effects your state of mind when you approach a woman.

 

[DonJuanjr]

They key is to not care and not take it personally if a woman doesn't think you're hot.

I agree not caring is the key. Not having an unsubstantiated belief that you are when there is no proof. Believing in one's abilities is not the same as being validated of external judgements. It's probably a better mindset for a guy to think "I'm not trying to fvck me, so I don't care what I look like".

Why isn't this realistic? It's just an assumption that effects your state of mind when you approach a woman.

Because if it were, the guys struggling with it wouldn't be in their position.