WoW, Most people workout wrong.

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by A-Unit, Oct 17, 2007.

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  1. A-Unit

    A-Unit Master Don Juan

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    So with the hope of brushing up my workouts, learning to eat better, and trying to learn how to lift that much better, I enlisted the services of an Independent trainer, someone recommended to me by a friend of mine whom I had bought many supplements from in the past.

    He came highly recommended, so I was excited to start. I shouldn't have been, my first workout was a killer. Since I was loathe to do cardio, I spent most of the 1st workout trying to catch my breath. I wasn't even able to finish it according to his guidelines because I ran out of energy (Not enough Carbs or solid energy during the day). It was embarrassing, but needless to say, motivating.

    The 1st 2 weeks was a basic Circuit Training Program where Legs, Back, and Chest were done in a row, 1 exercise each, and I would do 4 rounds. So as a for instance, Leg Press, Incline Press, and Bent-Over Rows. I took little to no break while doing it, aiming to get my heart rate up. The first week was tough, the second week easier. It was new to me. I was so used to "going slow" for muscle building that I paid no mind to overall fitness.

    During our workouts, he'd point out guys he knew there or partially trained and then quit, and note how and why they did things wrong. My friend who'd referred, a stock asian of about 200lbs standing at 5'7, can't even hang, and found several critical flaws in his own mechanics that lead to greater gains and growth almost immediately.

    After 2 weeks of Circuit Training, we've resorted to a mass-building phase. I definately feel I adapted to the Circuit training aspect, especially since I upped cardio to 5-7 days a week. My target is 10% BF. I've always hovered at 15-20, depending on time of the year. Most people say I look fine at 15-20, and even my GF prefers a STOCKIER guy than a lanky one (maybe it's just ego-building). Anyways...

    He'd advocated 40-50g of protein per meal, 6 meals a day, a similar amount of carbs and good fats. Most of which we all know, but do or don't do. I can honestly say it was the best money I've spent thus far. I easily went up on alot of my PR's, simply b/c I didn't have the right form, even if I thought I did. He showed me many different workouts and exercises, that I'd never have known, or done right if I did. That, and he works out alongside me when I'm running, or pushes me past points I may have stopped at.

    I think the biggest part people get is that they Don't know what they Don't know. You can't tell if what you are doing is close to what you SHOULD be doing. Even having read everything I did in the past, I couldn't guage whether I was close, or not. And I'd never realized how huge a part Cardio was in being able to grow. I know DoggCrapp pushes it alot, so if guys are reading his site, then you already know that, but I'd just shyed away from it b/c I hated it.

    Now...I can run no problem, and actually enjoy it. I feel better knowing if I return to Flag Football, I can hold my own, or if I walk forever, I'll be fine. It surprises me when I go the gym, and see how SLUGGISH people are. I see fat people lifting slow, when ideally, they SHOULD be a on circuit training program, THEN grow from there. They need the endurance and stamina to last through heavy workouts, and also need to fire the metabolism, since it has never really been fired before.

    If you're at a BF you're unhappy with, I'd definately say, do cardio, do circuit training, and drop it down to a BF you like. THEN build sensibly. I've seen guys walk up to my trainer and say "I am adding fat then turning it to muscle." No way, might as well turn lead into gold. I think that negates the laws of physics too? Be it as it may, cardio is a huge part of trimming down, AND in building muscle.

    So many people, including myself, were afraid of losing muscle, that they hold onto unwanted fat instead. Until you begin losing muscle mass, keep going on the cardio. Most heavy muscle building workouts can't put your heart rate in the range to burn significant calories. I know it DOES...but it just doesn't do what a Circuit Training Routine combined with Cardio CAN do. Most of Hollywood's best bodies are the result of such training as well. Moreover, MOST people do some kind of heavy lifting when they go, but stay the same BF%



    Cont'd


    A-Unit
     
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  2. Warboss Alex

    Warboss Alex Master Don Juan

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    cardio makes you grow faster, much faster. it's why I tell everyone to do it, at least on offdays and a little pwo if you have the time.

    put two guys on a 'bulk diet', one of high protein, mod-high fat and timed carbs, plus lots of cardio, and the other on the typical low-mod protein, high carb diet with, to quote Diesel, 'no fvcking cardio'.

    one will end up 20lbs larger at a higher bodyfat. the other will end up 30lbs larger at the same or lower bodyfat.

    guess which is which. :D
     
  3. Drum&Bass

    Drum&Bass Master Don Juan

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    AWESOME !!!!!! and its true, a good trainer will open your eyes to a whole new world of fitness and will set the record straight on how get maximum results the right way!!!
     
  4. Warboss Alex

    Warboss Alex Master Don Juan

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    as long as he appreciates the value of a pullthrough :D
     
  5. A-Unit

    A-Unit Master Don Juan

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    Re:

    If you were to ask me what I eat, I simply shop Category, and buy from my category, and then eat from it each day. I make a spread sheet...3 columns...and make sure I'm stocked on those foods, then make the meals the morning before or night before, and just eat.

    I also believe in course-correction. Take action first, see what the results are, and take action based on those results. Some may say "No Cardio" doesn't work, or "No Circuit Training" is wrong, but until you've done it, you don't know. Moreover...if you've lifted heavy for awhile, do the opposite and do a higher rep Circuit Training Routine. Your body won't be expecting it, and so it will be a change your body will hate, and love.

    If I had pics, I'd post BEFORE and my SOON-TO-BE's. I have no digicam, but I did take an initial pic with the trainers digicam.

    Alot of people thought I was "fine," but those same people aren't in the shape *I Want to be* so I ignored them. I don't want to be like the people commenting on me or my life, I want to be like I KNOW I can be, so I listen to the people who already HAVE what I want to achieve, and once there, I will then grow beyond that level as well.

    The big part to being with a trainer is also the fact that, you hear what they do to achieve what they have. If you read books, or go alone, or go with friends, you get varying stories. When I have the trainer there, I'm hearing that he stays in on weekends, eats lots of protein, has a very HOT gf who works out at the same gym each day lifting weights, does 5-7days of cardio, and tells me what he eats and how he ignores most bad foods to be in great shape. And he's in incredible shape, but started out like us.

    I've asked him straight up about roids, and he admits that alot of guys there, at the gym, take roids, especially the ones with imbalanced bodies (i.e big up top, small down below). He's never taken them, and he started at 140, then to 170, then to 270, back down to 225 where he's at now. All natural, just 10 solid years, or more, of training. Could it be done differently? Probably. But I'm not one for blowing my clothes up, then cutting back down either. I'd rather be chopped up, than have varying sizes. I believe in overall fitness, while adding size all the time. I think if it's all size, with no heart or fitness involved, then like all men, you can be doomed to early problems like most of our fathers.

    I realize not all trainers are good, which is why I've been lucky. He's independent, went to my HS, from my area, struggled with his weight when he blew his Acillies out, and lifts at my gym, but doesn't work for them. Much of what he says, is what people know, but when you are trying to IMPLEMENT it, you don't know if it's correct, accurate, or even working. When lifting, most do the exercises wrong, so they don't even get the benefit of it anyways. I see TONS of girls lifting biceps very slow, as a for instance, and its pretty much a waste based on how they do it.

    Normally rep last 4-6 seconds down, 2 seconds up. If I hit a wall, or lose intensity, then we drop the weight and go for more reps and a controlled negative. I would say he's taken pieces from books we've all read, but didn't know how to use correctly. It's definately opened my eyes to training and how to do so properly. If you can find a good trainer, I recommend befriending one and eventually doing a full out month with them. I do about 3x/week for this month and will figure out what is up next month.

    I was lifting before, mostly power-bodybuilding style, with lots of compound movements, and this greatly increased my performance while training with him, but it wasn't effecting my body like this is. Learning those movements from Ripptoe, etc, definately helped when he wanted me to bench, or squat, or deadlift, but I've also learned how to other, lesser known exercises, or even how to do Close Grip Benches correctly.

    It's definately the best money I've spent. If you're SERIOUS about your training, and you're paying money on supplements and a gym, go get a trainer, one you are recommended from a trusting friend. Mine just so happened to come from a guy who I lifted with for awhile, who's naturally jacked and ripped, and believes in this guy alot. Even if I learn alot now, I can't fathom not having someone with his knowledge critiquing me along the way to improve all the time.

    Many of us want PUA advisors, or financial advisors, or legal advisors, why not a perpetual fitness advisor? At some point I'll be completely autonomous, and due to my life, I won't be able to be so rigid on times at the gym, but I will still consult with him. It's really helped me focus at the gym, also, because when I'm totally trying to FINISH lifts or FINISH my workout, i don't pay attention to anyone else. And knowing I have someone helping me, makes me feel like I belong in there, because I'm doing it right, and dedicating myself to success.


    A-Unit
     
  6. spesmilitis

    spesmilitis Master Don Juan

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    "I think the biggest part people get is that they Don't know what they Don't know"

    Very true. People have a phobia of the unknown; not knowing makes them uncomfortable. Consequently, they make themselves believe they know more to reduce their anxiety.

    I admit myself, there are some aspects of my interests (strength training, nutrition, technology/science, grappling) that I will never know or know of, and that makes me uncomfortable.
     
  7. Espi

    Espi Master Don Juan

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    I know what you're talking about.

    I started circuit training a month ago, and I have honestly never felt so challenged in my 3years of working out. Moving from one exercise to the next with little-to-no rest in between still leaves me huffing and puffing.

    I have never felt so close to vomiting.

    But I have never stronger, nor have I ever looked leaner.


    Keep up the good work.
     
  8. SinJester

    SinJester Master Don Juan

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    God dammit why did no one tell me this before? I was just following Diesel before. Haven't done any cardio while I've started lifting.

    I have to start doing some soon reguardless but I always thought it would hinder my progress.

    So why does cadio make you bigger?

    Cheerio people
     
  9. Espi

    Espi Master Don Juan

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    I really don't believe cardio makes me "bigger."

    Cardio, however, helps me burn fat quicker, which in turn helps me more efficiently build muscle:

    Now, circuit training, I discovered, is not necessarily only for fat people. As A-Unit already coveyed, circuiting is most ideal for someone like myself, someone who is interested in obtaining OVERALL FITNESS.

    A variety of training methods involving cardio and strength leads to the land of big gains. I like to mix it up: circuit train 2-4 weeks; then I switch to the old-school training methods involving heavier weights, mutliple sets, and 2-3 minutes' rest between sets.

    I've have also found that circuiting is like killing two birds with one stone: You get the the dual benefit of strength-training and cardio in one shot.

    I invite you to try the following circuit:

    *No rest between exercises
    *Rest 45-60 seconds between circuits
    *Repeat each circuit 3 times
    *Reverse the order of the circuit after 2 weeks.
    *Rest at least 1 day between workouts

    Circuit 1
    Barbell squat 8-15 reps
    Medicine ball pushups 15-20 reps
    Torso rotation twists 15-20 reps each side


    Circuit 2
    Flat bench press 8-15 reps
    Pullups 6-10 reps
    Medicine ball chops 15-20 reps each side
    http://www.sonicboomgolf.com/MBChops.php

    (I can usually manage only 6 consecutive reps of the MB chops; I've several times come very close to vomiting at this point.)

    Circuit 3
    Seated row 8-15 reps
    1-legged squatdown 15-20 reps each side
    Shoulder punches 15-20 reps


    This workout is downright brutal, but after 2 weeks, I noticed strength gains in my bench, pulls, and rows. It's also designed to hit the core from all angles.

    I combined this workout with a nutrient-rich diet, and I feel stronger and look more muscular and leaner.
     
  10. Warboss Alex

    Warboss Alex Master Don Juan

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    can't be bothered to explain it again but basically it helps you become a human food processor, which is what is required if you're to bring yourself up to a new level of muscular size without becoming a lardbucket.

    basically if two twins followed the same weights routine, and one diet high protein+cardio etc and the other the more traditional 'bulk' of high carbs and no cardio, the first guy will end up bigger and leaner whilst eating more calories
     
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  11. mintxx

    mintxx Senior Don Juan

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    cardio turns your body into a furnace accustomed to using up resources to burn or build, speeds up your metabolism, does all sorts of good things. but i do it for the sex
     
  12. mintxx

    mintxx Senior Don Juan

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    AMEN TO THAT
     
  13. spesmilitis

    spesmilitis Master Don Juan

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    I have a feeling that bulking is not only net calories, but it depends more on caloric intake. For example, two guys have the same net calories, but the first guy does cardio and eats more. Consequently, the first guy while will bulk up faster as long as the cardio is not so intense that it interferes with recovery.
     
  14. Warboss Alex

    Warboss Alex Master Don Juan

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    I have gone 1000cal over 'maintainance' and gained all muscle w/ no fat.. try doing that with no cardio and see how far you get.
     
  15. Bonhomme

    Bonhomme Master Don Juan

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    It does not make sense to me that one would lose muscle mass so easily that the right sort of cardio (that does not preferentially work the slow-twitch muscles where you want to bulk) would cause muscle breakdown.

    It does make sense that more efficient fat burning would reduce muscle loss.
     
  16. A-Unit

    A-Unit Master Don Juan

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    Re:

    Without being or knowing technically how cardiovascular fitness increases muscle mass, let's go with the practical and logical explanation.

    Guy A Only lifts heavy. It isn't taxing on his body, so to speak, but he can only max lift a specific weight and he's spent. If he tried to cram more weights in, odds are he'd fatigue out of exhaustion faster. He may lift for 45-1hr, but he wouldn't lift at a fast pace. The sole goal is strength and hypertrophy (or muscle breakdown, to a point, too far and the muscle won't grow or recover).

    Guy B Does some Circuit Training Sessions, OR, he adds Cardio after workouts, in the AM, or whenever he can. Each Cardio Session is meant to challenge him and push his heart rate, so that when he walks a flight of stairs, he isn't fatigued. His circuit training sessions make his heavy weight workouts seem like a walk in the park. It takes more weight and exercises to fatigue and break muscles down. Moreover, the more cardiovascularly fit he is, the higher his metabolic rate will be during workouts and in between them.

    It was DR Gregory Ellis who said that man is eating less because he is less active, and therefore consumes less calories. Activity = calories/energy, so for people who FEAR cutting calories too much, cardio enables the body to eat more, and burn more. It is far better physiologically and metabolically to eat around your minimum necessary calories and do extra work, than cut calories and do nothing. We all know why.

    The body itself is 1 giant muscle working as a unit, cardio and circuit training emphasize this. Obviously mixing in heavy weights and workouts also increase muscle mass and strength, as well increasing bone density, so neither workout type is absolute UNLESS you are training for a specific sport or activity. If you are seeking general fitness and a fair level of aesthetics, then cardio, circuit training, and heavy weights are the way to go.

    The body is also a muscle machine that seeks to maintain homeostasis, much like the mind does. Change is seen as all but death. In fact, change is THE death of the old self, and old body. The body adapts to workouts and exercises because, as an evolutionary imperative, it needs to for simplicity. Much of what we do is routine out of the need for preservation and safety, but that also HINDERS how far we can go in life. The only reason you do not have today what you dream is fear of the unknown, because breaking routine would have normally meant death.

    Think of all the things you do without thinking. Driving. Brushing your teeth. Walking. Talking. Typing. Running. We can adapt so fast to routines that we act as if life has always been this way. And when we adapt, our body stays at that level for as long as we choose to stay there.

    My trainer is also someone who is progressive and positive in his thinking, much like myself, so I benefit outside of the gym from his teaching and thought. His belief that "When it becomes easy to do, you must change things in some way," has been something apply with confidence each day. Whenever I feel myself "FEARING" anything, I realize the only reason I do is because its new. I've adapted to an old world way of doing things, and obviously fear the unknown, because it is the DEATH OF THE OLD SELF. The old self finally reach homeostasis and equilibrium, but this is not a good thing. It leads to boredom and depression.

    Lastly, we have become to sensitive to muscle loss and too insensitive to fat gain. I see many guys at the gym who are large, but possess a 15-25% bodyfat percent. While I applaud their efforts at being large and strong, in the short-run they have adopted many health risks which should be dealt with immediately. The cut/bulk cycle can increase a male's chances of disease and heart problems, especially if they fail to lose the added bulk out of fear of also losing a few inches of muscle. This is our vanity at play, though.

    Men want to be big, and will sacrifice some bodyfat to do so. Women want to be small and will sacrifice muscle to do so. Neither sex cares much about what is crucial to their health. Men should ideally drop bodyfat, as they are meant to be leaner and in their later years, fat presents a problem to men. Women should ideally GAIN muscle and do weight workouts because the majority of women suffer from brittle or weak bones by way of osteoporosis. The nature of their sex and hormonal make up is the factor here.

    Moreover, men are naturally muscular, under all the fat. Women are naturally thin, under all the fat. Either sex would benefit from each other's workout goals, at least from a fitness and health perspective. When considering what's COMFORTABLE for each sex, most women gravitate toward cardio, out of fear of looking weak or being seen as a piece of meat on embarrassing machines. Likewise, men often go for weights, as that is easiest and most preferable to their ego. But neither is entirely right.

    A blend of both is preferred. Your body is the product of what you currently do, and can do.



    A-Unit
     
  17. EFFORT

    EFFORT Master Don Juan

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    anyone here pull the sled for cardio?
     
  18. kickureface

    kickureface Master Don Juan

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    wtf is pulling the sled? if its what i thionk it is, we dont here in southern california. no snow.

    i wish someone stressed cardio more for lifting! blehhh.
     
  19. Throttle

    Throttle Master Don Juan

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    no, not that kind of sled. see:

    http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4199

    the guys who do it swear by it.

    well...this is why several of us have put slightly snarky comments in at the end of diesel's threads and try to push people in other directions... but since he's a 'legend' (as it were) and states "NO CARDIO" with such passionate eloquence, lots of people go down that road. and maybe it works for some people, or at least appears to. but moderate cardio has so many benefits.....
     
  20. Marvin Gaye

    Marvin Gaye Senior Don Juan

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    These days with the technology craze, you can easily look up Youtube routines that advise on proper form.


    For the moment this is my alternative, as I don't have extra $$$ to pay for a personal trainer.
     

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