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Why even a trained fighter is fvcked against multiple attackers

ubercat

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Sh1t yes if two or three guys circle and grab at best you will cop a serious beating at worst his mate will stick a knife in your kidney. Any self defence techniques you learn should be focused on a quick disabling or distracting move and then running. Anything else is just sport.
 

Bible_Belt

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The guy looked like he had taken some TKD, and might have done ok one on one, especially with rules. But he didn't think about the other guy jumping in. That was his first mistake. He should have moved away from the cars so he had more space to move. He also demonstrates the validity of the rule "do not kick above the waist in actual combat." I am thinking his opponents may have trained their fighting techniques in a state prison, given the way the guy was grabbing clothing. The unconscious guy was lucky that they were kicking his head sideways, and not stomping on it, which is an easy way to kill someone.

Against multiple attackers, the right way is mostly running. You move so that one guy is behind the other, which gives you about a second and a half of one-on-one before you have to run again, which is not much time. The Samurais could do it, but they were brutal - crotch, eyes, and throat are the first targets. Even what are submission moves in mma, in real life should be breaking bones at a rapid pace.

And yes, good point about expecting a knife. They may have had them, but not needed to use them. There is a stereotype in the US about Mexicans being more inclined to carry a knife, and I have seen that to be true. It makes sense, they tend to be smaller in stature, thus requiring an advantage. Often you can tell, when a small man is acting a lot braver than he should be, it's because he has a concealed weapon.
 

sosousage

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and the moral? always have friends and bring them to more dangerous places.

carrying a weapon is double edged sword, but friends can always help.

puvsies cant fight one on one.
 

ubercat

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Well maybe if they are handy friends. I got jumped by two thugs once just walking down the road. My mate legged it. Fair enough I don't think he d ever been in a fight in his life. I just used my footwork to keep away from them. Which was a bit stupid on my part I should have just run. They were Jolly little Brawlers. When punching and grabbing didn't work they grabbed a couple of large sticks out of someone's garden and tried to cave my head in. I took a wicked defensive bruise on one forearm. I had several opportunities to take them out and didn't bother like midnight said most people aren't trained in how to fall they hit your head and your next girlfriends going to have 3 days stubble and be named Big Bubba.
 
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AttackFormation

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The guy looked like he had taken some TKD, and might have done ok one on one, especially with rules. But he didn't think about the other guy jumping in. That was his first mistake. He should have moved away from the cars so he had more space to move. He also demonstrates the validity of the rule "do not kick above the waist in actual combat." I am thinking his opponents may have trained their fighting techniques in a state prison, given the way the guy was grabbing clothing. The unconscious guy was lucky that they were kicking his head sideways, and not stomping on it, which is an easy way to kill someone.

Against multiple attackers, the right way is mostly running. You move so that one guy is behind the other, which gives you about a second and a half of one-on-one before you have to run again, which is not much time. The Samurais could do it, but they were brutal - crotch, eyes, and throat are the first targets. Even what are submission moves in mma, in real life should be breaking bones at a rapid pace.

And yes, good point about expecting a knife. They may have had them, but not needed to use them. There is a stereotype in the US about Mexicans being more inclined to carry a knife, and I have seen that to be true. It makes sense, they tend to be smaller in stature, thus requiring an advantage. Often you can tell, when a small man is acting a lot braver than he should be, it's because he has a concealed weapon.
Agree with this. The guy in the video could not have had any real experience, even if he trained the moves. If he did he would be running backwards to encourage them to chase him and then crack the guys when they lead face first and try to swing at him, creating a collision. Counter-striking 101 that guys like me/you try to make the other guy do every time in the dojo. In real life you don't have to try, they'll do it for you. Then run away when you're out of danger (or preferably before you have to knock anyone out at all). If he wanted to use kicks, he should've anticipated that they'd try to catch or redirect it and cracked them with an elbow when they did, again something he would've known had he had any real experience.
 

ubercat

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Yeah it's the difference between dojo experiences and street smarts. I used to train Goju karate. I couldn't be bothered with gradings so I was an ancient white belt. At that stage I'd already got to a brown belt in judo, played rugby for 20 years, boxed and had some Wing Chun Kung Fu. My kung Fu club used to train Muay Thai on Sunday so I d dabbled in that too. The head sensei was the coach of the national team and a very experienced guy he could do the biz. And his black belts were tough and salty. I remember trying to do a fancy judo throw on one of the black belts and the guy was so strong he just picked me up and dumped me on the ground. And a lot of the white belts were mongrels like me who knocked around in a lot of different things.

But then we used to get shiny new black belts from other branches coming to do training. And they get to sparring and decide to have some fun with the white belt. I'll never forget the look of the black belts face once when he caught my front kick. I hopped forward and side kicked in the stomach... Gently I wasn't trying to take him out. And then hit him with a Left Hook which I turned into a slap.

Moral being Walk Softly and carry a big stick you never know what the other guy knows.
 

Von

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Real fighting is all about technique and willpower.

I mean mostly Adrenaline rush assimilation.

You could be a Black Belt, World Champion in Boxing, UFC Champion etc... and still get your ass kicked in the Street. (alot of cage/ring fighter got their hands broken in street fight etc.. including Mike Tyson)

The people in street usually attack you when they KNOW THEY WILL WIN (aka surprise first attack, or you having a moment of weakness).

Been in a few street fight, my martial art was useful... I was glad to have been a good school with great teachers that focused on the simple/fast stuff (I did MuayThai, BJJ, Aikijutjitsu).

The best way to win a fight is to avoid it...

If you can't ... always create space between you and the attacker... also use psychology to turn him into the ''agressor'' so if it's tapped (like that video) people will see and know you are the one in ''self-defense''.

Running is also a good thing... especially running to safe area... you never know if he will have buddies, knife or gun...

Fighting versus a knife or a gun is not worth it... better avoid or give up (like surrender your wallet)

If you surrender your wallet, throw it in his direction but not at him... so his focus will be to run after your wallet... while you run
 

Reyaj

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The guy looked like he had taken some TKD, and might have done ok one on one, especially with rules. But he didn't think about the other guy jumping in. That was his first mistake. He should have moved away from the cars so he had more space to move. He also demonstrates the validity of the rule "do not kick above the waist in actual combat." I am thinking his opponents may have trained their fighting techniques in a state prison, given the way the guy was grabbing clothing. The unconscious guy was lucky that they were kicking his head sideways, and not stomping on it, which is an easy way to kill someone.

Against multiple attackers, the right way is mostly running. You move so that one guy is behind the other, which gives you about a second and a half of one-on-one before you have to run again, which is not much time. The Samurais could do it, but they were brutal - crotch, eyes, and throat are the first targets. Even what are submission moves in mma, in real life should be breaking bones at a rapid pace.

And yes, good point about expecting a knife. They may have had them, but not needed to use them. There is a stereotype in the US about Mexicans being more inclined to carry a knife, and I have seen that to be true. It makes sense, they tend to be smaller in stature, thus requiring an advantage. Often you can tell, when a small man is acting a lot braver than he should be, it's because he has a concealed weapon.
Yeah definitely looks like TKD.. It looks like one of his kicks almost got caught... In a street fight its better to just try and kick nuts and stomach you think? Good point on the kicking the side of the head versus stomping.

I remember you stating the running in front of each attacker is the best way (probably only effective way) to handle multiple attackers. I guess this could only work if they don't grab a hold of you right? They have to be in a striking attack for this to work (or if you know how to get out of a hold quickly).

Not to stereotype but they did look like Mexicans huh?

look at the difference in execution in these fights for comparison. the trained/experienced guys are relatively relaxed, control their distance well, and mostly just defending themselves. even after they drop their opponents you dont see any wild head kicking or stomping of any kind. the guy in road rage video goofed big time. i doubt he trained seriously in anything for very long. he doesnt strike me as someone with a good reference point in actual fights

the video at the 3:02 mark is a perfect example of what bible belt was talking about.

when you train, you will naturally learn to avoid street fights in the first place unless you have to defend yourself. knocking someone down is dangerous if youre on concrete. thats all it takes to crack someones head open and now you have a manslaughter charge on your hands.
Yes definitely avoiding fights is the best bet. Those were good videos displaying boxing as self defense. I had only see the first one before with the guy punching the two guys who swatted at his girlfriend. I love boxing and I think it may be the most practical and easy to learn self defense out of everything. That being said I have to admit it is limited.. Those videos either showed guys getting sucker punched or guys who were complying with just trying to strike. What happens if someone with a wrestling or judo background shoots for your legs? I am sure you've seen the UFC fight between boxing great James Toney versus Randy Couture


Agree with this. The guy in the video could not have had any real experience, even if he trained the moves. If he did he would be running backwards to encourage them to chase him and then crack the guys when they lead face first and try to swing at him, creating a collision. Counter-striking 101 that guys like me/you try to make the other guy do every time in the dojo. In real life you don't have to try, they'll do it for you. Then run away when you're out of danger (or preferably before you have to knock anyone out at all). If he wanted to use kicks, he should've anticipated that they'd try to catch or redirect it and cracked them with an elbow when they did, again something he would've known had he had any real experience.
The thing nobody is mentioning in this video is that this guy asked for the fight.. It looks like they jawed at each other and then agreed to fight... Like BB said his mistake was that he didn't consider the other attackers.. I think he thought it was going to be 1:1 which is stupid when there are multiple people. It wasn't a situation where he was going to get assaulted or jumped.. he seemed to sign up for a fight.

Also even though this guy ended up getting a concussion he didn't press charges. Reminds me of what Virtual said in the previous Walmart fight post how most people who end up fighting don't press charges... I think had he lost to the one guy it would make sense but the fact that the other friend jumped in it wasn't fair so he probably would have had a right too even though he agreed to the fight.

Real fighting is all about technique and willpower.

I mean mostly Adrenaline rush assimilation.

You could be a Black Belt, World Champion in Boxing, UFC Champion etc... and still get your ass kicked in the Street. (alot of cage/ring fighter got their hands broken in street fight etc.. including Mike Tyson)

The people in street usually attack you when they KNOW THEY WILL WIN (aka surprise first attack, or you having a moment of weakness).

Been in a few street fight, my martial art was useful... I was glad to have been a good school with great teachers that focused on the simple/fast stuff (I did MuayThai, BJJ, Aikijutjitsu).

The best way to win a fight is to avoid it...

If you can't ... always create space between you and the attacker... also use psychology to turn him into the ''agressor'' so if it's tapped (like that video) people will see and know you are the one in ''self-defense''.

Running is also a good thing... especially running to safe area... you never know if he will have buddies, knife or gun...

Fighting versus a knife or a gun is not worth it... better avoid or give up (like surrender your wallet)

If you surrender your wallet, throw it in his direction but not at him... so his focus will be to run after your wallet... while you run

Good stuff man, especially good point making it known that the other guy is being the agressor. I agree your wallet or money should be surrendered.. its not worth it

One thing I still haven't figured out yet though is if you are in a fight if its better to be angry or calm? I know most people will say calm but I feel that being angry seems to give you more strength, determination and energy versus someone who is just relaxed... I could use some better explanation on this.
 

Bible_Belt

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One thing I still haven't figured out yet though is if you are in a fight if its better to be angry or calm? I know most people will say calm but I feel that being angry seems to give you more strength, determination and energy versus someone who is just relaxed... I could use some better explanation on this.
Relaxed is the way professionals fight. When you tense up, everything hurts more and you get injured worse as you take damage. Any ER nurse will tell you that drunk people survive car crashes much better than sober people, because they are relaxed. You even hit harder yourself when you are relaxed. My trainer once told me that he got asked why his fighters looked so sleepy when we were fighting. I've even got my eyes closed in a few of my fight pics. Relax! is the first word out of every corner man's mouth. Breathe! is the second word. If you can't do those two things, you're not going to last very long.
 
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ubercat

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Last clip shows importance of training clinching and grappling. So if you do cop couple of punches you can tie up and stop the damage.
 

Reyaj

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Relaxed is the way professionals fight. When you tense up, everything hurts more and you get injured worse as you take damage. Any ER nurse will tell you that drunk people survive car crashes much better than sober people, because they are relaxed. You even hit harder yourself when you are relaxed. My trainer once told me that he got asked why his fighters looked so sleepy when we were fighting. I've even got my eyes closed in a few of my fight pics. Relax! is the first word out of every corner man's mouth. Breathe! is the second word. If you can't do those two things, you're not going to last very long.
Yeah Pros definitely fight relaxed.. but in a street fight or other altercation outside of something governed.. do you think being angry helps? I feel naturally when I'm mad I go harder and the anger makes the attacks my opponents are striking me with not hurt... in other words getting punched just makes me angry instead of hurt..
 

Reyaj

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Yeah Pros definitely fight relaxed.. but in a street fight or other altercation outside of something governed.. do you think being angry helps? I feel naturally tough when I'm mad and I go harder and the anger makes the attacks my opponents are striking me with not hurt... in other words getting hit just makes me angry instead of hurt..
 

Von

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Yeah Pros definitely fight relaxed.. but in a street fight or other altercation outside of something governed.. do you think being angry helps? I feel naturally when I'm mad I go harder and the anger makes the attacks my opponents are striking me with not hurt... in other words getting punched just makes me angry instead of hurt..
Anger leads to the Dark Side, the Dark Side to the Sith (StarWars référence)

If you in Anger, you might have more power in striking and more resistance... but you will like lose control in terms of techniques and fluidity. It could lead to more injuries (for similar results)

I believe, when we talk about relax... it goes with the aikido terminology: ''Be like Water''

Relax should mean = IN CONTROL, Body is like WATER, Brain ain't overridden by adrenaline (adrenaline control is key in all street fight or competitions... adrenaline the reason a lot of ''black belt'' who are masters in the Dojo or Gym are destroyed in the chaotic street environment because their brain is overflowed by a rush of adrenaline which paralyze them and make them forget the basics)

So a relax fighter... is a fighter in control... he will be more adapt to manage the ''anger'' and his opponents.

A relax fighter is fluid and can manage... he might be also angry... but not to the point anger blank his brain or muscle reflex.

Actually, you should never think in a fight, it should be a reflex lol. Relax leads to better reflex
 

Bible_Belt

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do you think being angry helps?
Adrenaline dump is the other issue. Going full tilt crazy, most people only have about 60 seconds of gas in their tank. You see that a lot in youtube street fight vids. Both guys start sucking air about 30 seconds in.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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alot of cage/ring fighter got their hands broken in street fight etc.. including Mike Tyson)
That’s only because they punch so hard and are used to wearing gloves so they don’t naturally regulate their power.
Adrenaline dump is the other issue. Going full tilt crazy, most people only have about 60 seconds of gas in their tank. You see that a lot in youtube street fight vids. Both guys start sucking air about 30 seconds in.
If you feel that it’s truly life or death, you will never get tired, and your strength has no limits.
 

Bible_Belt

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If you feel that it’s truly life or death, you will never get tired, and your strength has no limits.
Yeah, for about 30 seconds. It's a great survival mechanism, but evolution figures you are probably dead after a minute or so, if you haven't won by then. The super power of adrenaline doesn't last indefinitely.

I will say though, that my ruthlessness has no limits when losing. That's a survival mechanism too. The second guy I fought caught me with one good shot when I was blinded by the lights, then proceeded to dribble my head up and down like a basketball, I looked up at the ref, expecting him to stop the fight, and the mother fvcker was grinning ear to ear! That sick sob was actually enjoying watching me getting beaten up; he was getting off on it, I think. I rolled onto my back, my opponent made the mistake of jumping on me, I caught him in an oma plata, and then proceeded to beat the fvck out of his ribs. I had pinned his arm down with my leg, so my arm was free. It was like tenderizing meat. I could hear girls in the audience being grossed out by the sound. I don't think I would ever beat on someone like that had they not just almost killed me. That guy hit me so hard, I still have the lump on my head. We were friends after that, though, mad respect both ways. He later told me that he started training BJJ afterward because of me. He won the judge's decision, but I was the first guy who ever gave him a real fight.
 

ImTheDoubleGreatest!

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Yeah, for about 30 seconds. It's a great survival mechanism, but evolution figures you are probably dead after a minute or so, if you haven't won by then. The super power of adrenaline doesn't last indefinitely.
I don’t know, I disagree. It only comes from fear though. I read a book A Long Way Gone: Memoirs of a Boy Soldier and something struck out to me in there when the boy was first running away from the soldiers attacking his village. He said that there was always was one boy with his friends in the village who always ran faster than everyone else, but that day, they all kept up with him and I believe he said that they “ran for about an hour”, though I could be mistaken on the exact wording. But basically they ran near sprint for an hour. That’s not something that happens normally. There’s another part that sticks out to me too. There was another part where they were running away again and this other man who was a lot older was running with them because the soldiers were shooting at them. They ran for an extremely long time, and when they finally stopped they realized that the man was bleeding. He didn’t feel the pain right away until then, and he began to cry from how much it hurt and eventually died. But he put off death because he didn’t realize that he was hurt. He would have died much sooner otherwise.

It’s not adrenaline. Adrenaline is only temporary, and it takes time to circulate throughout your body. I was told that it takes about 30 seconds for oxygenated blood to reach your muscles. Well I’d assume similar of adrenaline. I think that fear invokes something neurological. Drugs like meth or cocaine can do the same. Maybe that’s why some crackheads are so strong even though they’re sticks.
 
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