What Does She Really Mean by "Control"

[va2000]

When a woman says the icky continuous feeling of being controlled, not listened to, not taken for serious... what specifically does "controlled" mean to her?

When she says she doesn't feel good enough, but my instruction to eat better, drink less, be active, etc. feels "controlling", what does that indicate?

I'm curious about the listening thing too... perhaps it's just **** testing though.

 

[AJ84]

When a woman says the icky continuous feeling of being controlled, not listened to, not taken for serious... what specifically does "controlled" mean to her?

When she says she doesn't feel good enough, but my instruction to eat better, drink less, be active, etc. feels "controlling", what does that indicate?

I'm curious about the listening thing too... perhaps it's just **** testing though.

It means just that. That's a pretty direct statement. Icky is not a good feeling. If you want to create a Sub/Dom relationship ( which you indicated based on previous posts) then she needs to feel good about that and feeling icky is the complete opposite of feeling good.

I don't know much about sub/Dom stuff but I do know that both persons have to want it, be willing, find it fulfilling and enjoy it. If not then it's probably not going to work.

If she sees your quest as an 'icky continuous feeling of being controlled' then she's probably not into the sub/Dom relationship you're trying to create. Maybe find a girl who is into that rather than someone who you have to convince because It will be a waste of you time and do you really want her to begrudgingly play along if it makes her feel bad? That's not how sub/dom, stuff works from my understanding.

 

[va2000]

I don't actually have any rules laid down for her, this was in response to some emails about things that need to change... I'm realizing more and more that my pontification is mostly wasted energy and it's only when I'm with her in person that I'll be able to set examples and expect her to learn something (eating and working out).

I think my years of being wishy-washy are going to take a lot of work to undo... namely that I alternatively made strong statements about being healthy and went for long periods "treating her as equal" and giving her "the benefit of the doubt" as she essentially asked to be able to "do her thing" and she thought she would be most successful by feeling more free. However, as I'm learning, it is the freedom that creates inescapable complacency.

 

[AJ84]

I don't actually have any rules laid down for her, this was in response to some emails about things that need to change... I'm realizing more and more that my pontification is mostly wasted energy and it's only when I'm with her in person that I'll be able to set examples and expect her to learn something (eating and working out).

I think my years of being wishy-washy are going to take a lot of work to undo... namely that I alternatively made strong statements about being healthy and went for long periods "treating her as equal" and giving her "the benefit of the doubt" as she essentially asked to be able to "do her thing" and she thought she would be most successful by feeling more free. However, as I'm learning, it is the freedom that creates inescapable complacency.

You spent years being wishy washy and long periods of treating her as equal, now you want to do a 360 and have a sub/Dom relatinship and wonder why she is resisting your efforts to change things, interpreting her understandable resistance as game manipulation on her part. This is what I'm am reading into your posts correct me if I'm wrong.

It's hard to completely change the dynamics of a relationship that has been established without there being resistance. You need to ask yourself if it's worth it to you to try to get her to change (men don't like it when women do this to them), or part ways and seek the kind of relationship you now want.

Because think about it, going by what you have posted:

You have been with her for four years.
She hit the wall and is not, in your eyes, high SMV material.
She has PTSD
You want her to get cosmetic surgery to turn into a living doll, which she is resisting
You want her to give up working so she can be totally dependant on your financially
You want to flirt with her hot friends
You want to use dread and other crap that invokes negative feelings in her to keep her a happy sub (?).

But, despite her being your girlfriend for the past four years, you have to come here and ask a bunch of strangers what she meant when she said xyz. After four years you should know her enough to know what she meant or at the very least be able to ask her yourself.
But you're not, which implies you either don't know her or don't trust her or both, yet you expect her to completely give herself over to you as a sub.

 

[va2000]

"What is the feminine subtext"
"It means just that."

Yea, extremely helpful. You are like an anti-masculinity robot, yet you claim to represent women. Not buying it. Every bit of your analysis is taking details out of context and extrapolating them out to assume the worst possible situation.

My girl has been submissive since I met her. Our relationship is amazing, and has been better every year. I came here looking for some wisdom to correct my past mistakes and to improve on what I got right by nature. Wishy-washy was my mistaken behavior, not the core of my being FFS, as was treating her as "equal", which means trying to logically reason out what "icky" means and failing. It's the emotional subtext that counts. She communicated that she needed to feel better, and by resisting the **** and offering the comfort I do make her feel better. Perhaps others have more ideas...

I'll leave this here in case someone wise has any input.

 

[sazc]

When a woman says the icky continuous feeling of being controlled, not listened to, not taken for serious... what specifically does "controlled" mean to her?

When she says she doesn't feel good enough, but my instruction to eat better, drink less, be active, etc. feels "controlling", what does that indicate?

I'm curious about the listening thing too... perhaps it's just **** testing though.

You're telling how to eat better, drink less, be active, etc. To he it feels like you are trying to control certain aspects of her life. She probably senses an underlying threat of "if you don't do these things, I am out of here" she is feeling strong armed by you, like you are trying to control her.

If you don't like who she is right now, breakup with her and find someone else.

 

[Billtx49]

Control = lack of space
Give her more space…

 

[va2000]

Excellent answers. It may be the truth, but being healthy and fit is not an on/off switch. I recognize my own weakness in letting frustration with her rate of change overrule the fact that she is changing in my head. Sometimes it's just the reminder that I set the example and she keeps up or doesn't that a man needs. She eats very well (for the most part) and loves to workout (most days) but when I'm traveling for work and unable to show by example my brain tends to get fixated on the nights she goes to her girlfriend's house to drink or whatever, since I am different and able to go three months without alcohol when I'm training. It's petty of me and not the same as if she threw the fit lifestyle out the window... I need to remember that.

 

[va2000]

However... eating healthy, working out, moderation in drinking... these are things she absolutely values herself. The truth is she is less responsible and more whimsical; she more easily loses sight of the goals, the 3 month targets. These are not things I would disqualify any woman for on their own... in fact I expect most women to be somewhat pliable since frame is useless without the adaptability of others. She is often vocally grateful for my input and/or patience and/or inspiration, she gets it, she just doesn't always feel it.

The question here is not whether or not she wants to live in my frame. The question is what might I be doing or saying that makes it feel "icky" rather than leadership. There seems to be a grand contradiction in redpill thinking between "go your own way and let her take the ride if she wants to" and "your woman is your first officer and it is up to you to lead your ship where you want it to go." Both of these are based on valid premises, but in any LTR there is some sort of balance that must be struck between being completely DGAF and control-freak.

 

[sazc]

However... eating healthy, working out, moderation in drinking... these are things she absolutely values herself. The truth is she is less responsible and more whimsical; she more easily loses sight of the goals, the 3 month targets. These are not things I would disqualify any woman for on their own... in fact I expect most women to be somewhat pliable since frame is useless without the adaptability of others. She is often vocally grateful for my input and/or patience and/or inspiration, she gets it, she just doesn't always feel it.

The question here is not whether or not she wants to live in my frame. The question is what might I be doing or saying that makes it feel "icky" rather than leadership. There seems to be a grand contradiction in redpill thinking between "go your own way and let her take the ride if she wants to" and "your woman is your first officer and it is up to you to lead your ship where you want it to go." Both of these are based on valid premises, but in any LTR there is some sort of balance that must be struck between being completely DGAF and control-freak.

Next time she complains about 'icky' tell her you dont understand what that means and ask her if she could explain it better, then listen. When she is done talking, repeat back to her what she said so she knows you were listening.

You dont have to engage her on the topic, but it's probably a good idea if you listen with the goal of understanding why she says this, what is she referring to. At that point you can determine if you can address her feelings and still have her remain in your frame (is it as simple as phrasing something different?) or if your paths dont align.

I'm willing to bet it's as simple as the phrase/words you use and you can figure out some way to say the same thing without her feeling icky and controlled.

you've been dating her for a while, make some effort instead of trying to guess.