The Introduction of "T" Theory/Natural Game

Discussion in 'Don Juan Tips' started by Jvesti, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma
    The Introduction of T Theory

    Still afraid to approach? Complaining to yourself “Why is this sooo tough how much more do I have to learn”? Trying to figure out if she likes you, how you should talk, walk, have your body language what nifty NLP Technique to do next?

    Here is the problem with current methods of teaching people how to get laid and success with women we all MUST pay attention to.

    1. You can know it all and be killer with the ladies BUT that does not mean you know how to teach how to be killer with the ladies.

    2. You can have the most brilliant ideas and concepts in the world BUT if you can’t express yourself correctly they mean nothing to anyone else.

    Well you might be asking yourself questions such as “What is he talking about my skiing teacher, my baseball coach, my guitar teacher, know the best way to teach”. The thing is these are ALL mechanical methods and step by step intellectual processes. Getting laid and arouse sexual attraction is NOT a mechanical process but a natural process hardwired into our genes. We don’t choose to venture off onto the girls side of the playground when we were in 6th grade by logical reasoning that we were now of age to have functioning sexual parts. We just did because something inside us compelled us to. It compelled us to take risk we wanted something although our socialization along the way tends to throw this off course big time which we’ll get into later. So why are you learning how to have game by logical methods and mechanical techniques?

    Teaching is a very intellectual exercise. Most people teaching how to get success with women today have difficulty conveying what it takes for very good reason! Getting women is not an intellectual exercise but a primal and natural one. I will equate it to this:

    A majority of the guru crowd teaching guys to get laid are exactly like a dude teaching a person to smile by:

    1. Taking left side of face and raise it 15 degrees
    2. Take the right side and do the same on 15 degrees
    3. Open mouth exactly 3” centimeters
    4. Top lip should be slightly curved while the bottom far more curved
    5. pull up cheek muscle up slightly until it has indentation right near the mouth.
    6. Make sure top teeth are showing for the most part
    7. A little bit of the lower teeth should show too


    If the top of your lip doesn’t curve upward we you failed steps 1 and 2 so please try again

    Blah blah blah blah blah

    Do this in the mirror right now.

    Now relax your face and I want you to think of the funniest experience you’ve ever had in your life. Look in the mirror again.

    Hmm same results eh? Although your first try might have been very awkward and uncomfortable looking. Not to mention people who can read body language very well (typically women) could sense it was a fake smile but the other was natural. In anywhere in the world facial expressions are exactly the same cause it is not a cultural mechanism but a natural one.


    BECAUSE ITS NATURAL TO SMILE! It is ingrained in us naturally. Just like when a baby comes out of the mother and has a scowl facial expression not a smile or a smirk or a toungue sticking out while it cries. WHY? Because it is natural ingrained in us through evolution!

    *On a side note imagine what would happen if from day one we were discouraged to smile or have this natural smile reaction. What happens to a short-temper person who is bombarded by all society to have anger management. He usually loses his natural predisposition. (His anger usually also comes out different ways anyway but that’s another story)

    The point of this post is to prove that arousing sexual attraction in females, getting women are natural and ingrained in us too! I bet if we counted up all the techniques, mechanical methods for getting laid that there have popularly ever been that guys have spend hours, days, months on learning. We could fill a 50 volume encyclopedia with 500 pages per each volume. Making things complex and technical are certainly great if you want to market something. You can have a seminar on “approaching”, “NLP”, “getting laid”, “getting a girlfriend”, “body language”

    I mean look at how many posts there are on, varied techniques, how to act like an alpha male, how to have the right body language, voice tone, voice speed, say the right line, when you should call, How to get her in the mood, how to know if she likes you, how to sit, how to stand, what facial expression you should have, if you should crinkle your forehead, whether to argue or not with a women, should you be jealous, should you do this should you do that I could probably go on for 10 + pages just naming topics.

    The Ockham Razor
    “The simplest and most direct solution, requiring the fest number of steps, is usually the correct solution to any problem.” – Ockham’s Razor

    Picture a massive bicycle wheel that is 200 miles in diameter basically would be a large object if you looked from space laying flat on the earth. Probably the size of a large state. Your goal is to be able to see all parts of that bicycle wheel to see if it is a bicycle wheel or not. Currently 99% of you are seeing the bicycle wheel by walking the outer edges step by step to accomplish this. Which will take you countless time and bore you to tears. When all you have to do is stand right in the middle of it and do a 360 degree turn once! All of us have access to this epicenter, it is ingrained in us just like the ability to smile!

    This is what this post is about. When you have tapped into your natural game everything else will come natural including body language, what you say, voice tone, facial expression, when you should call, how you invite a girl out, how to get her in bed, and all the 10,000 other things!

    Why does 99% of the guru community teach walking around the wheel instead of that it is naturally in us?

    There are various reasons for this, they are generally the same reasons for why people follow all this and agree to the ways they teach.

    First reason is because people that are intellectual and highly intelligent always search for an intellectual way of interacting with their world. Therefore they search for how to create sexual attraction in an intellectual way. Generally those with high IQ’s have the affliction. Which is no surprise to see that a majority of the dudes in this forum generally have above average intelligence. They peg the methods of attraction intellectually. Lean back, crinkle forehead, walk slower, do this do that countless of other thousands of components.

    Secondly, the more technical and more you make it an intellectual process the more seminars, reading, audio tapes, video you can sell. If car repair was a natural instinct ingrained in us (It is not) we’d just need to focus on getting in touch with it not reading 30 different books on different aspects of the car.

    Here are the “Outer parts” of the wheel when non-natural try to intellectually internalize

    Walking – Most dudes walk with shoulders slumped, fast and nerous, arms tight in. But I want you to watch these same people after they won a victory………. Oh they are walking with their chest out, head up high, in a badass walk speed??? How is this so? No one ever taught them to walk like an alpha male!!! The truth is people the way you walk comes from internal states of mind not from mechanical intellectual processes like how to do a correct pitching wind up!

    Body Language – Tied straight to walking. These gurus go on about lean back, head up, shoulders back, relaxed posture. But when you FEEL the right way and are in touch with something you NATURALLY do this. Stop listening to people how to have body language. You are walking the outside of the wheel!

    Voice tone – C’mon get real here. Ohhhh talk slower, deepen your voice blah blah. Go and have sex with a girl, win a football game, see if you have a quick pitched, submissive, and nerdy voice. hmmm exactly...

    Facial Expressions – same logic applies here. Do you need to learn that you should have a ****y confident look, maybe a crinkle in the forehead, this that and all the other thing, while juggling patterns, lines, body language, NO these all come naturally from internal states and being in touch with SOMETHING we are about to get into very shortly.

    Pickup lines and patterns – When you are in touch with what need be inside you, you will communicate correctly, say what’s needed. Stop trying to memorize lines, you aren’t doing a sales pitch, the decision isn’t based in logical purchasing decisions, you are communicating to arouse something primal once you are in touch with where sexual attraction comes from none of this **** matters. NLP puts girls in certain states but the truth is you powerfully convey states such as sexual attraction, fun, action when you get in touch with what is natural.

    I think I’ve made my point. The only argument you might have is fake it until you make it. But why fake it, its already within you and natural! Here we go!
  2. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma
    Lets get down to business!

    The guys that are getting chicks left and right getting the girls panties wet you drool after are too busy to listen to the above mentioned because they are too busy NAILING chicks while people are here intellectualizing everything. They are taking the chicks you want, the chicks you wack off to at night while you are learning seduction patterns and making posts about steps and techniques or how to walk your dog like an alpha male. Do you feel incensed like its time to take on the world and own these punks? If you do then you are getting in touch with something very important which we are soon to talk about!

    I’m sure a lot of you remember why you actually looked for help. There you were sitting across from a chick totally CLUELESS like how do I make her want me. I don’t get it, I just feel nothing. This could be one of two things lack of correct hormones in the body and secondly being over-socialized – over civilized usually by your mother in this area of human behavior that you are trying to make a girl want you by intellectualizing and not what you are hardwired able to do that’s within you naturally to begin with. Sometimes a bit of both.

    Here is where you go wrong.

    Lets start with the most simple action. You are walking in public. And you see a really hot chick walking towards you. Your body has a natural reaction to this, endorphins rush your brain, your lower parts want to do something. But here’s the thing you suddenly ignore all these natural feelings and urges and start to intellectualize everything! What you want to do is go over there but most of you don’t really think beyond that your intellectual babble has so clouded being in touch with your inner drives it might not even occur to you that underneath it all, these feeling you are getting are because you want to put your **** in this chick and bust a nut!

    Now how many of you have the “I want to **** this chick, slap her ass, grab her hot firm tits” on the brain in your intentions as you interact? This is natural and how it supposed to happen. I’d venture to say most of what’s going through your brain is either “duuhhhh what should I say, how do I get her, what technique, what method, c’mon think!”. So you go on with your technique or non-sexual blabber and WONDER why you never aroused anything sexual in her!

    You are NOT in touch with what your body is naturally telling you to do! In fact you probably from an early age discouraged from any of this usually from an overbearing mother or someone telling you that attracting the opposite sex is from a technique or a logical reason. How many of these sound familiar:

    Be a nice boy
    Don’t make any advances physically or verbally in a sexual or make a girl feel uncomfortable or you might get in BIG trouble even a sexual harassment suit
    You are in debt to women because they are oppressed if you show you are paying the debt that is the game that will bring you the girls
    Acting this way or that will get you a chick
    Don’t be impulsive or brash be sensitive and caring
    Don’t just act on things it just isn’t right

    It’s always a logical reason, it’s never focused on the inner feelings and urges you start to get at the onset of puberty. It is the beginning of socialization of what is supposed to be natural. This is where we go wrong!

    So back to what your body is naturally telling you what to do. First it is seeing the girl and making you want to do something with her. (**** HER) Guys who can’t arouse sexual attraction in girls or are having trouble doing it on a consistent basis simply aren’t in touch with it. They are doing an automatic shut off. You are automatically shutting off what is naturally occurring in your body and supposed to occur. Remember the last time you interacted with a chick and tell me this didn’t happen. Tell me how out of touch you were with what your body was urging you at and how quickly it drops your mind in a mad scramble for some lame technique, conversation, thing to say etc.

    In fact have you ever seen the documentary of the apes that were taught to sign language. They were completely socialized and educated. I remember when they wanted to give these apes mates from the wild. So they let the apes choose their mates by them pointing to pictures on a computer screen. The thing was, when the apes finally met the apes they could mate with. They had no clue how to interact to get sex! They lost it because they were oversocialized and the process at which they were to choose a mate was based on intellectual exercises. They tried doing sign language and were very confused. The ape’s that weren’t socialized completely rejected them and were probably saying to themselves WTF! This wasn’t the point of the documentary, it was just about sign languaging apes. But was the pivotal thing that allowed me to come to this profound realization.

    Here is where to go right

    Here is the definition of a “natural”: A man who is completely congruent and in touch with this drive within him and acts on it with total congruency.

    That’s it! In order to be a natural you must focus inwardly on this and everything will flow straight from it just like all those buddies you have that mack it with every single hot broad in a natural way and would probably laugh looking at websites that focus on learning scripts lines, how to walk, how to take a **** like an alphamale and so on.

    The drive within you toward the female gender is not a logical one but comes from the fact that you want to **** them it is an innate drive hardwired into all living organisms with gender. The need to mate, bust a nut in her.

    Now lets think of a natural pimp in a club. We’ve all been to clubs and seen those dudes who are mac with the ladies. Once contact is made the girl melts and gets this smile all over her face. You see it happen you can almost feel the sparks flying. What does he usually do to get her attention? Its always something very blunt, he will either point at her or grab her arm. He isn’t doing this as any technique. He is acting on feelings in him and impulsively grabs or impulsively says something coming straight from what he’s feeling what’s occurring in his body and mind.
    Getting in touch with this drive is to undo the chains of socialization bombed on you by your mother and every person who said that creating sexual attraction is all logic and strategy is the goal here.

    Knowing that you want to ****, you want nothing else, and letting your behavior carry out from this, from your TESTOSTERONE.

    I like to call this “Getting in touch with your testosterone” because that’s exactly what it is. It is tough to describe an innate drive this is why chicks when seeing a sexy dude they say “there is just something about them”. If you press longer they might say he has “killer instinct”. If you ask a natural why they act that way, I had a natural friend of mine call it “pimp mode”. Again this comes straight from being congruent your testosterone.

    Think of the forces of life TV, media, feminazis that discourage you from this. Naturals are simply in touch with their testosterone and usually have a lot to begin with so it is much easier to get in touch with it when its banging down their door to their mind with an iron fist. Now lets get into testosterone theory.
  3. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma

    What is testosterones function? Firstly Testosterone is a hormone that binds with receptors in the body to elicit certain responses. It binds with muscle tissues it creates muscle growth as we all know. What you might not know is testosterone binds with receptors in all parts of the brain affecting how we thing and what we do. It is even theorized that testosterone has receptors in the higher part of the brain affecting reasoning and logic but that’s still a theory.

    So what is testosterone’s affect on the body, namely the brain? According to some of the brightest people in the world and all testosterone research. Testosterone is the pre-cursor to dominance and secondly aggressiveness depending on if its needed to dominate. Here’s a quote from an expert on T named Bernhardt:

    High testosterone in itself is not a dangerous thing, but when it is combined with low levels of serotonin, the results might be deadly. Testosterone is associated with the need for dominance (many successful athletes and businessmen have high testosterone levels.) But since not everyone can be the top dog, serotonin keeps the tension from peaking, and mellows us out. When serotonin levels are abnormally low, however, frustration can lead to aggressive, even sadistic behavior, according to a study by Paul Bernhardt.

    Bottom line Dominance, the inner feeling of going out and getting what you want. Dominance means you getting what you want, your reality is more power. Picture if you will a hot chick walking by you right now out in public. You look at her and get that shot of endorphins in your brain that seeing a beautiful female does. What you want to do is go over there to her but most of you don’t really think beyond that your intellectual babble has so clouded being in touch with your inner drives it might not even occur to you that underneath it all, these feeling you are getting are because you want to put your **** in this chick and bust a nut!

    Afterall this is why we are attracted to females because nature says **** THEM. Don’t kid yourself in all this socialized bull****. Mate mate mate mate mate spread your dna. Not to have a nice little chat, not have long steamy conversations about how much of a jerk their ex bf is, or self esteem improvement sessions. Unless you have very low testosterone or high estrogen if this were your true nature and you just felt this is the way you need to be. You really don’t care about this and you aren’t supposed to care. If you get in touch with your testosterone and let it take over for you. You get agitated, annoyed, impulsive if a chick tries to play games cause you aren’t in touch with intellectuality you are in touch with your sex emotion/testosterone.

    Here is the basic difference from abnormal into natural

    "I am here presenting myself to you. You can do what you want with me. Hopefully you will start kissing me. I feel like I should just take you and kiss you, but everyone says that isn't what you want. You might get mad at me or think I'm a loser. So I will just stand here and talk to you until you do something."

    Let your testosterone take over, grab your balls, feel what you want innately and you get:

    “I'm here, I want to get some action, im going for it, I could care less what you want, if you pull away, i will destroy you at your game cause you really want me, and my reality will overpower yours”

    So bottom line you must get in touch with your testosterone to be optimally successful with females. 2 things arise from this, How can you get in touch with it? And also how do we make it easier?

    Keep reading the analogy about walking past the girl over and over again until you start to feel what I’m talking about. It’s not as easy to put your finger on natural instinct like it is to put your finger on a mechanical process. When you get congruent with your testosterone. You feel to act impulsively, brash, bold, not care what others thing, you are coming from the testosterone.

    Part II

    The first part is all about actually showing you HAVE TESTOSTERONE. A girl can’t tell a sexy guys sexiness or genetic potential to have testosterone if he were to stand still wrapped up in a garbage bag. Women take in their information through 5 senses like every human being and based on those sets off attention mechanisms hardwired in her by nature.

    The Second is how to increase your levels. You can increase your testosterone which will increase your need and drive to get what you want which will make things easier. The more testosterone you have the sexier you are to females. The wetter their panties will get. Testosterone is what makes masculinity/good gene’s. Low testosterone makes weak risk averse babies and also leads to impotence and erectile dysfunction. The alpha male shows his testosterone and has the most usually or is the best at showing what he has clearly to females.

    Serial killer Ted Bundy received over 60 love letters from women who claimed to love him. This is a guy who raped dead bodies and killed every women he saw. Richard Ramirez the night stalker who raped 55 women and killed 15 people. Received over a 1000 love letters! and ended up marrying a women with a 150 IQ with a top paying job before he got the death sentence. Pimps are the biggest bastards in the world but women cling to them.

    Are you getting it now? Something biological is going on here that’s setting off urges within women. It is called testosterone! Ted Bundy or Richard Ramirez in caveman times would probably be the survivors with their fearlessness and cunning while wussy guys afraid of their own shadow would perish. On a side note: Rock stars and actors tend to have very high levels. Look at what happens when women see a rock star or actor they go ****in crazy. Motley Crew was getting laid like kings even before they were famous.

    I suggest reading Pook’s “secret of the jerk” post to learn a bit more about this. If you want to learn more about testosterone research read “Heroes, Rogues, And Lovers” by James Mcnabb. Excellent book!

    Now I’m not going to get into how to increase your testosterone levels there are plenty of books that discuss this. So I will briefly go over a few means of them.

    Bodybuilding-weightlifting (intense short period exercise) – I think a lot of you have noticed the mental changes this creates on the mind as well as you start to lift weights. Your T increases as a reaction to the muscle stress but that till will also spill over into receptors in your brain and affect how you think and how you take on things. I speak from personal experience. Those of you that have seen what I looked like even in my body language and facial structure from before and after know what im talking about.

    Get into competition – at something you kickass at the more intensive the better. There’s a reason why jocks get the ***** and the best athletes are all picked up by the ladies. Even in places where no one knows them like walking into a random bar they still have success. It’s cause they are oozing with testosterone! Not only cause of the fact they naturally were genetically born with high levels but because of the fact that competition and exercise increases their levels through the roof.

    Step being a vegan – Red meat and fats increase testosterone levels. Moby aint sexy! Moby looks like a classic AFC.

    Get out there – Just get out in the world get in the habit of trying new things whether you like it or not

    Perceive the girls as a competition – Know that getting girls are a competition there are plenty of dudes ready to take your chick and **** the **** outta her, you’ve got to be the top dog. Ever notice when your friend says, “If you don’t get her I will”. It galvanizes us to get off our ass. This is cause competition spikes levels.

    I’m not going to get into this anymore I don’t have the time to rant on longer. In fact environment has a 60% influence on levels on average either in increase or decrease. Your body also will affect only certain tissues muscle, neural, based on environmental needs as well. So keep this in mind as well. If you have a set of testicles and can have an erection you can get in touch with T hardcore. If you don’t you probably won’t care much anyway cause you wouldn’t want to get laid bad anyway. Which side do you want your testosterone on?

    Here are some tidbits of studies on testosterone to help you grasp what getting in touch with testosterone is. Rocky III remember how Apollo Creed tried to get Rocky in touch with “Eye of the Tiger” this is kind of like how it is. He couldn’t explain it to him in words, he could only help him get in touch with it in himself. Don’t mind that they are disorganized:
  4. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma
    You can read a lot of studies on testosterone and ideas by smart people that tend to be fairly boring at
    Proceed with your own caution but it does have useful info. I also suggest "Heroes, Rogues, and Lovers" by James Mcnabb which is interesting book.

    Supporting this view is the feedback system associated with testosterone. Not only is dominant and aggressive behaviors associated with higher levels of testosterone, but the likelihood of winning a sporting competition is associated with testosterone in males. Furthermore, the winner gets a boost in testosterone whereas the loser has a drop. The rich get richer. But this is not just a fact of physical competition. Dabbs, with other researchers, found that testosterone increases in successful male chess competitors in a tournament. I have evidence that the male spectators of basketball and soccer games have increases in testosterone when their favored team wins. This system is described by Alan Mazur and is termed by him the Biosocial Theory of Status.

    In this example, Ego’s stare is assumed to elicit feelings of
    stress in Alter. Alter’s eye aversion is assumed to relieve his
    own felt stress. Staring – the stress-inducing behavior – is a
    dominant sign associated with high status. Eye aversion is a
    deferential sign associated with low status. In other words,
    a dominant act (staring) elicits stress in the recipient; a
    submissive act (eye aversion) relieves stress in the actor. It is
    a central assumption of this model that most dominant and
    deferential acts work this way, inducing or relieving stress,
    respectively. These acts are the means whereby the adversaries
    wage their stress contest, each aiming “darts” at the
    other. Finally, when the stress is too great for one, he
    switches from dominant to deferential actions, thereby
    relieving his stress and simultaneously signaling his acceptance
    of the lower rank.

    Within hours of this outcome, we assume Ego (the loser)
    experiences a drop in T, reducing his assertiveness, diminishing
    his propensity to display the dominant actions associated
    with high status, and increasing his display of such
    submissive signs as stooped posture, smiling, or eye aversion
    (Mazur 1985). Faced with a new dominance encounter,
    Ego is more likely than before to retreat or submit. On
    the other side Alter, the winner, experiences the opposite
    effects: rising T, increased assertiveness, and a display of
    dominant signs such as erect posture, sauntering or striding
    gait, and direct eye contact with others. Alter may seek out
    new dominance encounters and is bolstered to win them.
    This feedback between high (or low) T and dominant (or
    submissive) demeanor would help to explain the momentum
    often associated with strings of triumphs or defeats:
    Success begets a high T response which begets more
    dominant behavior which begets more success.


    differences. For example, fat
    intake, which is higher in many poorer populations, has been
    linked with high T levels


    Smuts (1987, p. 402) suggests
    that, among females, “the outcome of a single interaction rarely
    leads to large variation in reproductive success because female
    reproductive performance depends mainly on the ability to sustain
    investment in offspring over long periods of time.” For this reason,
    females may engage in low-risk disputes over food resources but
    are unlikely to show the male-typical motivation for dominance,
    which is critical for male but not female reproductive success.
    Human males show a greater interest in status-seeking both in
    childhood and in adulthood (Hoyenga & Hoyenga 1993; Weisfeld
    1994). This suggests that dominance may indeed be independent
    of aggression and that the neuroanatomical or neurochemical
    substrates of men’s status-seeking may be laid down very early


    influence on aggression. As M&B suggest, testosterone may facilitate successful boardroom maneuvering as much as successful
    barroom brawling, or it may produce useful creativity as well as
    antisocial rebellion. To the extent that one can achieve status in a
    culture or social system for “legitimate” prosocial or creative
    actions, T’s influence may be sublimated into “higher” purposes.


    The strength of social factors can be seen in rhesus males which
    were assembled into new, all-male groups. T levels measured
    before the formation of the new group did not predict eventual
    rank in the new dominance hierarchy; in contrast, T levels did
    change in response to the animal’s ultimate rank, with higher
    ranking males transiently developing higher T


    M&B make intention a central part of their definition of
    dominance, but intention may be of secondary importance. The
    main point is being dominant, not wanting or trying to be dominant.
    Any act that produces deference in others can make one
    dominant. The act may be planned, as when one puts on a
    performance or chooses appropriate dress for an important meeting
    (Mark Twain said, “Clothes make the man; naked men get little
    or no respect in our society”). It may be unplanned, as in the way a
    charismatic individual naturally walks, talks, socializes, and captures
    the attention of a crowd. It may come from violent displays of
    bad temper or exuberant displays of good nature and optimism. It
    may come from wealth, strength, learning, experience, audacity, or
    cunning. Many of the noncompetitive aspects of dominance may
    be related to T, and it would be shortsighted to focus only on


    Here is a conversation I had when I stumbled onto this theory. After which I started to do some research. I knew I was onto something that made clear sense. Thought this would be helpful too
    Jvesti123 (3:10:15 AM): Yo
    Second to N0ne (3:10:21 AM): hey
    Jvesti123 (3:10:31 AM): man i just watched the Ted Bundy movie that serial killer
    Jvesti123 (3:11:01 AM): at the end in the words it said before he want sentenced to death he received over 200 letters from women claiming they loved him
    Second to N0ne (3:12:03 AM): Jeez
    Jvesti123 (3:12:06 AM): this was a guy who has an endless body count, who rapes and murders women who disrespect him
    Second to N0ne (3:12:09 AM): Why?
    Second to N0ne (3:12:14 AM): testosterone??
    Jvesti123 (3:12:26 AM): same with Richard Ramirez the night stalker he got 1000's of letters
    Second to N0ne (3:12:47 AM): why only 200 for bundy and 1000s for Ramirez?
    Jvesti123 (3:12:50 AM): he killed more, but Bundy was pretty damn sick
    Jvesti123 (3:12:59 AM): well ramirez killed 15 rapped over 50
    Jvesti123 (3:13:46 AM): I'm not sure if bundy killed as many, but he was so noteable for how easily he fit into society. no one knew. Ramirez was always in trouble and never fit in society
    Second to N0ne (3:14:11 AM): ah
    Jvesti123 (3:14:30 AM): It's ****ed up though man, the women who ended up marrying ramirez before his death sentence had an IQ of 151 and a successful job
    Jvesti123 (3:15:00 AM): It's ****ed up
    Jvesti123 (3:17:46 AM): but it makes you wonder exactly why and what biological purpose it serves for women to be attracted to people like this
    Second to N0ne (3:22:13 AM): maybe they thought he was wrongly persecuted?
    Second to N0ne (3:24:18 AM): weird man
    Second to N0ne (3:24:24 AM): might be a caveman gene?
    Second to N0ne (3:24:26 AM): i dunno
    Second to N0ne (3:24:31 AM): like a caveman connection
    Jvesti123 (3:24:32 AM): possibly something really primal
    Second to N0ne (3:24:35 AM): where th man can hunt and kill
    Second to N0ne (3:24:36 AM): yeah
    Second to N0ne (3:24:46 AM): its like the ultimate form of security
    Second to N0ne (3:24:54 AM): nobody could **** with these guys until they got sent to prison
    Jvesti123 (3:24:55 AM): because if you were in caveman times or even pre human times. That is power
    Jvesti123 (3:24:59 AM): being able to kill and rape
    Second to N0ne (3:25:01 AM): yeah
    Jvesti123 (3:25:08 AM): ensures spread of genes and survival
    Jvesti123 (3:25:58 AM): but I'm not sure if this is only prevalent in some women or all
  5. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma
    Jvesti123 (3:27:29 AM): haha its funny you mention OJ
    Second to N0ne (3:27:38 AM): why
    Jvesti123 (3:27:40 AM): after his murder he's had many hot women around him
    Second to N0ne (3:28:35 AM): look at how masculinized he is
    Second to N0ne (3:28:40 AM): he sickens me personally
    Second to N0ne (3:28:46 AM): but his jawbone
    Second to N0ne (3:28:59 AM): the dude flies off the handle so easily
    Second to N0ne (3:29:05 AM): his testosterone is probably sky-high
    Jvesti123 (3:29:15 AM): ya which is common in athletes
    Jvesti123 (3:29:18 AM): they have veyr high
    Jvesti123 (3:29:22 AM): that's why they perform so well
    Jvesti123 (3:29:38 AM): but honestly if you think about it. Bundy in primitive times
    Jvesti123 (3:29:49 AM): he was genius, cunning, got away with killing and raping so many
    Jvesti123 (3:30:03 AM): If he were a caveman he'd do some damage
    Second to N0ne (3:30:15 AM): right but this is 2004
    Second to N0ne (3:30:19 AM): back in the 70s
    Jvesti123 (3:30:19 AM): Not in our society
    Second to N0ne (3:30:31 AM): wouldn't women's LOGICAL brain override any instincts they had for him?
    Jvesti123 (3:30:47 AM): does logic ever override love?
    Jvesti123 (3:30:49 AM): NO
    Jvesti123 (3:31:05 AM): it is almost impossible
    Second to N0ne (3:31:09 AM): it seems like it would if you found out somebody's a murderer
    Second to N0ne (3:33:37 AM): Serotonin... is that the female stabilizing chemical for testosterone?
    Jvesti123 (3:34:13 AM): serotonin is what gives you a sense of well being
    Jvesti123 (3:34:22 AM): it has a curbing effect on testosterone
    Second to N0ne (3:34:27 AM): Is it in anti-depressants?
    Jvesti123 (3:34:30 AM): anti-depressants reuptake
    Jvesti123 (3:34:33 AM): serotonin
    Jvesti123 (3:34:36 AM): yes that's what it does
    Second to N0ne (3:34:42 AM): ah

    Jvesti123 (3:37:41 AM): Also back to what we've discussed before about alcohol. For some individuals alcohol increases test levels and they do their killing while intoxicated. Acute intoxication increases testosterone levels.

    Jvesti123 (3:37:51 AM): it would be less safe for them
    Jvesti123 (3:41:40 AM): but who do you think would survive in times of chaos
    Jvesti123 (3:41:48 AM): a construction worker dude or some nerdy psychiatrist
    Second to N0ne (3:41:52 AM): lol
    Second to N0ne (3:42:00 AM): yeah
    Jvesti123 (3:42:01 AM): it's all about survival
    Jvesti123 (3:44:34 AM): even monkeys do a nervous smile when they are beta and intimidated
    Jvesti123 (3:44:43 AM): its there way of saying they are harmless

    Second to N0ne (4:10:34 AM): yah dude, people with depression are docile low test levels
    Jvesti123 (4:10:43 AM): that's why high socio economic don't need to be an aggressive *******
    Jvesti123 (4:11:07 AM): as i've said before the more a person accepts defeat the more their levels lower
    Jvesti123 (4:11:11 AM): along with serotonin
    Jvesti123 (4:11:34 AM): thus it keeps a person in line and prevents them from challenging
    Second to N0ne (4:11:36 AM): why?
    Jvesti123 (4:11:38 AM): so they don't get any worse
    Jvesti123 (4:25:22 AM): Ya I'm reading the theory its showing that serial killers always have high levels of testosterone and abnormal low levels of serotonin

    Second to N0ne (5:18:19 AM): Smiling
    Second to N0ne (5:18:44 AM): Its reccomended in a LOT of psychological books to help make a good first impression
    Jvesti123 (5:18:51 AM): back
    Second to N0ne (5:18:55 AM): WB
    Jvesti123 (5:19:12 AM): ya it shows you are non threatening
    Second to N0ne (5:19:23 AM): it shows that you accept the person
    Jvesti123 (5:19:25 AM): ya that's where i got it from
    Jvesti123 (5:19:32 AM): it shows you are not a threat
    Jvesti123 (5:19:33 AM): but a friend
    Jvesti123 (5:19:41 AM): monkeys do it when the alpha comes around
    Jvesti123 (5:19:49 AM): it depends on the smile
    Second to N0ne (5:19:55 AM): ?
    Jvesti123 (5:19:57 AM): that's how betas survive
    Jvesti123 (5:20:13 AM): there are nervous smiles, there are smiles when victory happens
    Jvesti123 (5:20:22 AM): nervous smiles you've seen on total pussies
    Jvesti123 (5:20:47 AM): like when they talk to a hot chick they have this goofy smile on their face like GEE Im lucky

    Jvesti123 (5:38:15 AM): think of it as a volume dial
    Jvesti123 (5:38:31 AM): right now your volume dial on listening to your test is way too low
    Jvesti123 (5:39:32 AM): as you up your volume dial you'll hear **** in your head like NOooo don't do that the consequences, You gotta shut it the **** up

    Second to N0ne (5:48:21 AM): well man it makes sense
    Second to N0ne (5:48:32 AM): Otherwise humanity would have long since died out
    Jvesti123 (5:48:32 AM): Think of it as a dial
    Jvesti123 (5:48:50 AM): One of my friends who is naturally good with girls calls it "pimp mode" he says everyone has it
    Second to N0ne (5:48:59 AM): Lol
    Jvesti123 (5:49:24 AM): but this is a dude who can pick up strippers and walk straight up to a girl and grab her ass without hesitation
    Jvesti123 (5:49:45 AM): so think of pimp mode as turning up your volume on your testosterone
    Jvesti123 (5:50:41 AM): he wasn't sayin, Hey guys we have to do mirroring, we gotta go make sure we say this and that, ooooo try that line
    Second to N0ne (5:50:42 AM): How does one cultivate that belief that his testosterone will never fail him? Obviously men don't believe in their instincts... this is why they seek out seduction websites. Why don't they trust their gut and how can they learn to?
    Jvesti123 (5:51:57 AM): sexual attraction isn't a high level brain function it is were humans would be the only animal that could get laid
    Second to N0ne (5:52:02 AM): so most of their success thus far has arisen from their brains instead of their guts
    Jvesti123 (5:52:35 AM): yes and people who have been overprogrammed socially by things tha twork against them
    Jvesti123 (5:52:50 AM): that has some effect
    Jvesti123 (5:53:16 AM): and just plain low test dudes
    Jvesti123 (5:53:54 AM): but most low test dudes don't care enough, although im sure some do
    Second to N0ne (5:54:25 AM): sounds like an unbreakable theory you have
    Second to N0ne (5:54:32 AM): I fully understand it now
    Jvesti123 (5:54:38 AM): YES!
    Second to N0ne (5:55:10 AM): The ability to be a "natural" is within us all
    Jvesti123 (5:55:14 AM): Now what is left is to forget all this strategy horse**** and start conditioning yourself back to a more natural listening to text state
    Jvesti123 (5:55:16 AM): test*

    Jvesti123 (5:58:43 AM): hahhaha
    Jvesti123 (5:58:52 AM): yup you got it
    Second to N0ne (6:01:25 AM): Jim
    Second to N0ne (6:01:40 AM): This is the innate confidence everyone has been searching for in vain on seduction websites
    Second to N0ne (6:01:56 AM): Why? Because seduction websites give you bits and pieces.
    Second to N0ne (6:02:02 AM): Techniques
    Second to N0ne (6:02:07 AM): That may or may not work.
    Jvesti123 (6:02:08 AM): Think of it this way
    Second to N0ne (6:02:13 AM): But your gut NEVER LIES
    Second to N0ne (6:02:20 AM): It's undenable truth
    Second to N0ne (6:02:26 AM): And if you obey it, you can't go wrong
    Second to N0ne (6:02:31 AM): THAT is confidence.
    Second to N0ne (6:02:53 AM): Knowing that your gut instinct is trying to get you to take the best course of action.
    Jvesti123 (6:03:39 AM): The seduction websites are like a website teaching how to smile by telling you to move the upper corners of your lips up 1.5 degrees, pull eyes down 9% Versus just telling someone to start to feel happy and let it go
    Jvesti123 (6:03:57 AM): chances are you can spot a fake smile a mile away
    Jvesti123 (6:04:25 AM): much like a chick can smell a phony from her tests
    Second to N0ne (6:04:56 AM): not to mention chicks are 10x better at reading body language than guys
    Jvesti123 (6:04:59 AM): a phony that acts based on the principles compared to website 1's how to smile

    Jvesti123 (6:08:59 AM): listening to your sex emotion more
    Jvesti123 (6:09:06 AM): think of it as a dial in your head
    Jvesti123 (6:09:10 AM): turn on your pimp mode
    Jvesti123 (6:09:21 AM): the pimp mode starts with looking at a girl and knowing you want to **** her
    Jvesti123 (6:10:06 AM): the most natural thing to do is to walk up to her bend her over and ream her. But that ain't such a good idea. So turn it down a hair
    Second to N0ne (6:10:16 AM): hahaha
    Jvesti123 (6:11:16 AM): that's why you get laid and the girl complies and respects you for it if you are more pushy during sex if she is a bit hesitant instead of acting like a total ***** going "oooohh i totaly respect that I will get off"
    Jvesti123 (6:11:52 AM): that testosterone wants you to do something
    Jvesti123 (6:12:28 AM): let it take charge, turn up the dial to the right knob
    Jvesti123 (6:12:39 AM): no last minute resistance are women testing you
    Jvesti123 (6:12:51 AM): to see if you are what you are cracked up to be
    Jvesti123 (6:12:56 AM): to give her good genes
    Second to N0ne (6:13:58 AM): If you are listening to the TEST, then you will not settle for anything but her *****
    Jvesti123 (6:13:59 AM): to clarify myself
    Jvesti123 (6:14:04 AM): yup
    Second to N0ne (6:18:38 AM): Do you realize how many people are prisoners of their own mind?
    Jvesti123 (6:18:43 AM): yes exactly
    Jvesti123 (6:18:47 AM): 99% of the population
    Second to N0ne (6:18:54 AM): Their instincts constantly conflicting with their brain

    Jvesti123 (6:44:24 AM): Ya which is the exact reason that brain dead idiots in prison have 8 kids
    Second to N0ne (6:44:25 AM): "Listen to that little voice. ITS RIGHT!"
    Second to N0ne (6:44:37 AM): yup
    Jvesti123 (6:44:47 AM): but here's the thing
    Jvesti123 (6:44:55 AM): when your done it won't be a little voice It will be you because it is you.

    That’s all folks…
  6. Duke

    Duke Master Don Juan

    Apr 16, 2003
    Likes Received:
    For those who don't know, I am SecondToN0ne in that AIM conversation.

    Jim and I have been discussing this theory inside and out for weeks. I was very defensive upon hearing this theory, but I asked Jim a shyt-load of questions about it and he had logical answers for every one.

    We both want to get feedback on this theory. We want responses and we want people to GIVE THIS A TRY. I personally believe that being a "natural" is not some X-men power that some guys are born with, but an innate, instinctual skill that some men realize they have and others don't. One of the goal's of this post is to help you guys REDISCOVER this instinctual skill and cultivate it so that you can totally drop the intellectual approach to dating.

    We are not intentionally trying to put 'dating gurus' out of business, but we ARE trying to illuminate some truth on this topic so as to help the guys who are are trying countless tactics, techniques, and ideas when all they need to do is LISTEN to their testosterone and let it go on fukking autopilot.

    The human race has proliferated this long because of that instinct. It's not until recently that society has been trying to BEAT it out of you. Don't let it. Realize that all those urges, all those desires you have are naturual, and if you LISTEN TO THEM, they will lead you to success. Your gut instinct works FOR YOU, not against you. Just listen to it.

  7. MetalFortress

    MetalFortress Master Don Juan

    Jun 28, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Keesler AFB, Mississippi
    fine wine
    Yes... five starts outta five!!
  8. Egyptiandude1

    Egyptiandude1 Don Juan

    Jul 12, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Could it be.... a QUALITY post on Sosuave's DJ tips section...:eek:

    joking aside, great tip Jvesti, this is a really good and to the point type of post, it should be stickied for all those newbs who are looking for techniques..

    Keep the good posts coming..
  9. ImpatientFire

    ImpatientFire Don Juan

    Dec 6, 2002
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    Best post EVER!!!:cool: :D :eek:
  10. TurboLover

    TurboLover Senior Don Juan

    Oct 9, 2001
    Likes Received:
    Dallas, Tx
    Great Post.
    Long, but well worth the read.
  11. UltraMan

    UltraMan Don Juan

    Jul 9, 2004
    Likes Received:
    An interesting post. My only comment would be that telling someone to "get in touch with their Testosterone" is like telling someone to "just be yourself" when being themselves has led to failure after failure for years with women, and indead in many social situations. Naturals don't need techniques but a lot of other people do just to get started. In the above quoted example Alter, the winner of the eye contact contest, experienced a rise in Testosterone and carried himself in a more dominant and confident manner. They say he might then seek out other victories which would increase his levels even more. One of the first things newbies (including myself) are told to do is to go out and work make eye contact with everyone. I personally can atest to the fact that the feeling I got initially from doing that was nothing short of exilerating. My confidence level went through the roof, and I would actually be dissapointed if I couldn't score some quality eye contact with a girl during the day. My Testosterone levels have probably risen as well.

    Getting in touch with your Testosterone level is easy if you have an abundance. Think of it like Testosterone is water in a well. If the well is full it is easy to get a cool drink of it anytime you like. If the water in the well is low it is much more work. All of the techniques on walking, sitting, speaking etc. are a bucket for the well, and as you experience successes using them, slowly the well starts to fill up. Eventually you don't need the bucket anymore and you can discard it.
  12. Zoso

    Zoso Don Juan

    May 8, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I think this is a very good post, as it makes a point that so many other ones miss; this whole game is something that should be natural, not something intellectual or strategic. It can help to mimic confident behaviors, but this is a superficial thing that fails to address the root, the confidence itself. Why try to juggle the countless subtle physiological and verbal ways in which we communicate when we can just go into "pimp mode" and have these things become exactly as we need them to be?

    The problem is, that can be easier said than done. For one thing, the kind of people who need a site like this in the first place are those whose natural instincts have been overrun by powerful conditioning, those who don't do well in competition and who probably have lower T levels. Ideally one would enter a sexual state when seeing a hot girl, and their body language and voice tone and such would become conducive towards having sex with her. However, this instinct seems to be lost in most of the male population. Is this because of mom, or society, or TV? I don't know, but the fact is many guys immediately and instinctively enter a state of panic and subservience rather than sexuality. Telling a guy like this to just follow his instincts is just like saying "just be yourself;" in this context, it's not going to work. (edit: I just noticed that I stole this from the guy above me... Sorry, I really should get some sleep ;))

    The essential underlying factor that pulls it all together is confidence. If a man isn't confident, he can never trust his instincts; he doesn't even trust himself. Self confidence is required before he will be able to enter a natural sexual state. It comes back to the vicious cycle of needing confidence for success, and needing success to get confidence...

    The nice thing is, once you finally start to become more confident, it begins a positive cycle in which confidence and success increase exponentially, which would also increase testosterone. It's all connected.. And it all comes back to your state of mind. Master your mind and you will master your world.
  13. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma
    Excellent response! I never said this was easy to understand. If you ask a guy who speaks chinese to "smile" he'll look at you with two heads cause he doesn't understand english. It's kind of like this by telling someone to get in touch with their "testosterone", with some people "pimp mode" is going to click. I encourage naturals to post their own grasp way of describing it so it can click with other people's terminology.

    The trick is to say the right thing that clicks with a person individually to say "Oh yeah I get it!". The fact is that "just being ourselves" usually isn't being natural. Being "yourself" for an AFC is a guy who intellectualizes everything when encountering females. "Ooooh I am myself the guy guy who listened to mom when she told me a gal likes an old fashioned dinner buying good listener". You might think its yourself but in the same breath you are a guy who is dreaming about banging 3 hot chicks at the same time. See what I mean?

    If you have a **** that gets hard to females and you've wanted to **** a female ever in your life in an intense way. You have that testosterone. Some guys have a low level of test is measured at 450- 550ng/dl experts say levels can be raised by 40-60% by environmental factors from basal levels. (During a soccer game study Italy Vs. Brazil. some of the fans of the winning team's levels raised close to 100%!!!) Meaning that it can be raised around 1000ng/dl. Which is extremely high for a male in fact rare and most criminals have levels around that! Meaning that it can be raised up in certain circumstances/situations if you don't cloud your mind with intellectual babble when you should just be honing in on testosterone. Get it?

    Ya sure there are going to be real unmasculine low level test dudes and I can guess that there is a small handful of males that will have extreme difficulty getting in touch with their testosterone or lack the drive to. But I think next to all dudes that seem to have a functioning parts down there, can grow facial hair, have a man's voice, don't constantly get mistake for a female, can learn how to up their levels when dealing with chicks instead of intellectualizing and raise their base levels through environmental things such as bodybuilding, competition, staring, etc.

    Even dudes with naturally high testosterone can be highly socialized and it'll get in the way of their optimal performance with what they've got to get laid. Ted Bundy had extreme difficulty with getting laid because he was oversocialized and very intelligent to boot so I assume he applied the same logic that I've talked about with high IQ people up in the posts above. This is a guy who had testosterone levels through the roof at record heights and with serotonin levels that low we all knew how this frustrated man took out his aggravation.

    The thing with testosterone is Expert James Mcnabb has studied testosterone for decades and concludes that some people just have high levels while the others have high levels when the time is right for example "pursing a mate", competition etc.

    Unless you have a severe testosterone difficiency you can do this! Otherwise you wouldn't care as much, in fact if you had really low levels you'd probably just be content and never had gotten severely fed up in the first place to do something about your girl problem! Think about it, you felt the need for dominance. Ooooh is that Mr. Testosterone speaking.

    You think that really smiley dude everyone likes that's the archetypical happy go lucky low test mail cares much to get into theories of how to bang many chicks or have ultra success? signs point to no

    Nevertheless if you are curious go to

    and order a T level test kit. It is measured by saliva. (There are probably a few other places to look you're gonna have to check)

    The only technique I am saying is to do things to make your levels go higher so it is easier to get in touch with your testosterone. When you are dealing with girls focus on getting in touch with your testosterone and letting it take over. Don't give two ****s about anything else. It is natural and within you. (Yes staring people is a great way to raise your levels!) We can add that to the list of things to do to increase your levels.

    Learning how to walk like an alpha male, say lines, sit, do all these techniques, are walking that outer wheel they are ignoring the Ockham's Razor. You are intellectualizing behaviorisms that just come natural. Read the the paragraph of the Sign language apes above in my initial posts. Read the wheel analogy as well. It'll help you understand that stuff like this actually gets in the way of it being a natural thing and will inhibit your growth. Be congruent with your testosterone and all this flows naturally.
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2004
  14. Duke

    Duke Master Don Juan

    Apr 16, 2003
    Likes Received:
    It ISN'T the same as telling a guy "just be yourself." Consider this. You're sitting next to this smoooooking hot chick and what does your GUT tell you to do? Smack her ass, sexual innuendo, convey you're a sexual being, and at the root of it all, FUKK HER.
    This is your gut, your testosterone WORKING FOR YOU.

    Telling a guy to "just be himself" is telling him that its okay for him to accept his current set of unsuccessful behaviors simply because they were foisted onto him and beat into him by conditioning.

    When you listen to testosterone, you act out on IMPULSE. You do what YOU WANT TO DO without any fear of social repercussion. If you want to grab her ass, you grab her ass and you do it with no fear.

    As JVesti said, this is your frame:

    “I'm here, I want to get some action, im going for it, I could care less what you want, if you pull away, i will destroy you at your game cause you really want me, and my reality will overpower yours”

    If you TRULY believe in your instincts and you act on them and you go for what you want BECAUSE YOU ARE A MAN... and you live in your own dominant reality... then she will recognize your reality and submit to it subconsciously. When you act on your instincts to fukk her, it transmits a POWERFUL, POWERFUL desire to her, and she has no choice but to find you irrisistably attractive. This stems from your "drive". youre "eye of the tiger", your "testosterone. Therefore if she denies you, she's denying herself and her own inner drives. Thus, she can really claim no victory over you.
  15. chicksrock

    chicksrock Master Don Juan

    May 10, 2004
    Likes Received:
    The guys that are getting chicks left and right getting the girls panties wet you drool after are too busy to listen to the above mentioned because they are too busy NAILING chicks while people are here intellectualizing everything. They are taking the chicks you want, the chicks you wack off to at night while you are learning seduction patterns and making posts about steps and techniques or how to walk your dog like an alpha male.

    that was the most funniest and true thing i have ever read in my life!!!!:D
  16. Zoso

    Zoso Don Juan

    May 8, 2003
    Likes Received:
    I understand what you're saying, and it's true if the guy is confident enough to feel this gut instinct. What I'm saying is, when a person with social anxiety issues is sitting next to that hot chick, he's going to feel afraid and defensive rather than sexual, even though he is sexually attracted to her. This fear can be so strong that it completely overrides the sexual instincts. If this guy followed his gut instinct, he'd be running out the door, because his gut just keeps telling him DANGER.

    Just following your testosterone and gut instincts is a great idea, but it requires that you are in touch with your sexuality, not afraid of it, and you are confident with yourself, and so not afraid of her. Everyone has a 'natural' inside them, but in some guys he's buried pretty deep.
  17. Jvesti

    Jvesti Master Don Juan

    Aug 23, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Boston, Ma
    Yes that's the point of the post to focus on getting this out!

    I think that his definition of "gut instinct" is different than yours. and maybe different for everyone. I'm not even sure if i'd consider it my definition of "gut instinct" but it works for him. But it's the words he uses to peg something difficult to put a finger on.
  18. Omega

    Omega Master Don Juan

    Nov 16, 2003
    Likes Received:

    [T] :cool:
  19. legolas

    legolas Master Don Juan

    Feb 2, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Red Sox Nation
    Interesting of you to say that during that soccer game the testosterone levels were high. I notice that after a very intense baseball game on TV like last year's ALCS or ALDS (I'm a RedSox fan ;) ) I'm always shaking and after the game it takes hard concentration to try and hold a glass of water, though this could very well be adrenaline. What is the difference between adrenaline and testosterone?
  20. Omega

    Omega Master Don Juan

    Nov 16, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Adrenaline is like a high, testosterone is URGE.

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