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Selfishness, life-changing decisions etc.

Discussion in 'Anything Else' started by PrimetimeDeliverance, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. PrimetimeDeliverance

    PrimetimeDeliverance Don Juan

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    A couple of days ago someone I knew hung themself. From the tree in his front yard. This guy had a very colourful yet difficult childhood. Knowing full well the type of person he is and the stress he is under, two weeks before graduation, his parents tell him they are getting a divorce.. he feels responsible. And now they have lost a son.

    I live in a country where the government steals our tax dollars for very questionable purposes and still gets re-elected. They cheat, lie and buy off the opposition parties in order to maintain power. In fact, there is no real opposition, their leadership is so weak and disorganized.

    What am I getting at?

    Thanks to this site I have developed a great sense of self and a much higher level of confidence (not perfect by any means, but a hell of a lot improved). I've committed myself for the last couple years to doing whatever it takes to get what I want (money, girls, power etc). All of a sudden this does not seem appealing to me. I feel willing to give up all the hard work to follow a completely different path. All of a sudden, the thought of screwing people over or "succeeding at all costs" makes me really uneasy.

    Power games with girls/coworkers are something I used to be able to play very well, but now I want nothing to do with them.. I feel like everything I wanted in life is being turned on its head. Maybe I'm just ranting here, but the world has really been showing its dark side lately, and I just don't want a part of all the bull****. Is there anyone out there who honestly gives a ****?

    Where to go from here??? All the DJ techniques I've read over and over seem so insignificant. God, I had everything planned out, I feel like I'm back at square one and then some. I've got no idea what I want out of life again... anyone have any input? or have I gone completely wacko-jacko? :woo:

    But one thing I do know for sure.. I need a vacation.. :cheer: :cheer:

    thanks
     
  2. 7 Virtues

    7 Virtues Don Juan

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    Define your principles! What do you, as a man, stand for? What are you willing to die for?

    As a man, I follow the virtues of doubt, justice, growth, perseverance, courage, honour and loyalty. I will not stand injustice in my presence, nor cowardice, nor disloyalty, nor dishonour, nor blind faith. I am willing to die so I don't violate my own principles.

    Figure out what you stand for, and you can help shape the world. Life in limbo is no better than death.

    Or I'm just really ****ing drunk...
     
  3. cave dweller

    cave dweller Master Don Juan

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    life

    Hey,

    Life is nothing but a 'poker game'.

    (You must play the cards that it deals you)
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    The sorry crooks and bad people are everywhere------they cheat, lie, steal and will distroy you, (if you let them.)

    (Blow all of them off and be a MAN)
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Fvck how all of those sorry @ss people live.

    (Set your goals and enjoy life)


    cave dweller
     
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  4. Francisco d'Anconia

    Francisco d'Anconia Master Don Juan

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    Wasn't it Pook who said "..nothing I can't handle..." But you have a point, since 9-11 things seem to have gone to hell in a hand basket.

    Understand though, the world does not have to define you. You still have the power to live by YOUR means. Your friend saw things the other way around.

    If you'd like to read a really good book that speaks to this, pick up a copy of "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand. It's a long read but it will put literally everything into perspective in regards to society's effect on the human conditioning.
     
  5. diplomatic_lies

    diplomatic_lies Master Don Juan

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    Is the world really screwed up, or is it just your perception?

    People say we live in sh*tty times, but do we really? What about times like the Great War, the Depression, the Soviet famines, when people were concerned with things like "NOT DYING"?

    The world doesn't suck. Its our perception that it sucks. We see the glass as half empty, when we see it as half full. Compared to the old days, we're much better off.
     
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  6. Pook

    Pook Master Don Juan

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    Pook


    You're in Canada, correct? I really feel for you guys. The way how the law is structured up there, I understand why the marriage rate is dropping so fast. (marriage rate is plunging in all Westernized Nations, but most noticably in Canada). Go go Marriage Strike!

    These are the times that try men's souls. Our ancestors and forefathers always had clear and solid definitions of masculinity and manhood. While the definitions varied in detail, the context was the same. Today, there is no system, no genuine respect for manhood. If a woman committed suicide, it would be a 'tragedy'. But if a young man commits suicide? Ho-hum, just another 'statistic'.

    You're not crazy. You've grown up. Most people never do.

    Children are remarkable selfish. This is fine, as they are children. Growth is seen as the child growing and expanding on his/her abilities or schoolwork.

    However, around the age of sixteen (especially for girls), they become enchanted with a self-image for themselves. This self-image varies from individual to individual, but the results are the same: to create envy from others, excess pride, material goods, and sexual goods.

    Nature, herself, has written a code onto our hearts and natures. We each have our talents and gifts. And who can decide what they dream?

    This grand 'self image', in order to exist, must use techniques and people as fodder, as stepping stones to success. What is obscene is that the basis of fulfillment of this 'self-image' is the denial of the self.

    Narcissism is the denial of the self. It is to reject the Gift of Life. A musician trying to play the role of the soldier (for women? for money?) would have his soul destroyed. Likewise, a soldier trying to play the role of musician (for women? for money?) also would find his soul destroyed. We have been taught, at the earliest ages of youth, that in order to 'get things done' and to 'make people happy', we must, on all levels, deny ourselves. In fact, I suspect that is why many men come to this forum in the first place. We have 'denied' ourselves women for so long but enough is enough!

    What is a technique with woman but the fundamental denial of self? We are taught to act this way, do that, then this, and that over there, and perhaps we get the girl. But what was the cost? (There is ALWAYS a cost). By using some 'techniques' on the Internet, you never know if *you* can get women. Yes, techniques sell well because they are 'painless'. If anyone tells you something in life will be painless, they are, somehow, a salesman. Nevertheless, techniques are not an addition to your character but often a denial of it. No, being a Nice Guy does mean crash and burn. Rather than facing up to the hard questions of life and our own masculinitiy, it is much simpler and easier to adopt a series of techniques.

    Narcissism's denial of the self permeates through today's society, as you have noticed. How often have you gone on a date with a woman and had her say everything you *think* she wants you to hear? Or how often do you find guys that act the way they think the 'women' want to hear? The technique wielding seducer and Nice Guy differ on how they act, but the context of their actions are entirely narcisstic. Even the 'good girls' and 'bad girls' suffer from this extreme self image. Reality to them is unseen. This is why they never seem to 'change' once their bodies reach that of an adult. Many people remain narcisstic for their entire lives.

    I say: go do what you want! Go follow your dreams! Go embrace your passions! Go for the girl you think is 'out of your league' and super hot. Go for the fruits of life! Do NOT deprive yourself. When you do so, you slowly become embittered and turn that embitterness into a virtue. "Look how NICE I am to women." "Look how I sacrifice for my education/job/family/etc." The list goes on and on.

    Our age today is mercenary labor and mercantile women. Everyone wants to leverage you for their own ends. But only you know what your dreams and passions are. Your dreams are now ripe for enjoyment. If you wait too long to enjoy it, it will be as bitter to the taste as defeat. Too many people deny themselves for 'tomorrow', always 'tomorrow'. We say, "Look at that dream up there! One day, it will come down." Rather, we ought to say, "Our hour has struck!"

    Francisco mentioned "Atlas Shrugged". I would say "Fountainhead" is the superior book. For those who still think narcissism is about being 'selfish', just look at the character of Keating. Keating and Roark play opposite roles. Keating does whatever to please others. He even denies his heart to marry a 'beautiful woman'. Roark does only what pleases himself and pursues his own passions. In the end, Keating becomes broken while Roark wins the world. The point is that both characters face severe pain (for pain will occur to you in life. If anyone tells you differently, they are a salesman). Roark, taking the mindset of freedom, dealt with the pain at front. Keating, adopting the mindset of security, avoids pain at every turn and it ends up consuming him.

    We can either avoid the pain and "shocks that flesh is heir to", or we can tackle it head on and be man not for women, not for society, not for your parents, not for your church, but for ourselves, as being a man is the closest males can get to heaven on Earth.
     
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  7. PrimetimeDeliverance

    PrimetimeDeliverance Don Juan

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    Seriously, thanks guys. Sorry I haven't checked in for a while but your replies were all really insightful.

    Especially to Pook, you've outdone yourself once again. I printed that out bud, very wise words indeed.

    Hopefully starting now I'll be around a lot more to cause some havok. :woo:

    Take care!
     
  8. Gus

    Gus Senior Don Juan

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    While that may seem selfish in that you are going after what you want...you are still placing your happiness in the hands of other people (getting the girl, gaining power over people, getting other people's money). And then your happiness is dependant upon the whims of everyone else.

    Yes definitely go pick up The Fountainhead. It's about half the size of Atlas Shrugged too ;).

    Yes, the world is really screwed up. People getting blown to pieces in subways, governments expropriating money from its citizens, and collectivism gaining strength are not exactly comforting thoughts, no matter what your "perspective"...unless you choose to be the Peter Keating and avoid your pain.
     
  9. Void

    Void Master Don Juan

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    Pook your post was great. Definitely print that PrimetimeDelieverance.

    I just wanted to add that: The times will always be hard in one way or another, it's just how you deal with it.
     
  10. jiza101

    jiza101 Master Don Juan

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    Great post pook, i sat in bed last light at about 11pm, thinking about life/death what i wanted in life etc. It made me so ****ing depressed, its like when i wake up my mindset clicks back to what i have been doing the past 10 years, (im 18), i need to kick my ass to change, like i will change for the day, go to bed wake up, and ill be the same i was a few years ago :mad: Then i need to get back into my mindset on what i want in life etc. How long will i keep having to tell myself this, before it comes naturally:confused:
     
  11. Visceral

    Visceral Master Don Juan

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    IMO ...

    This is why apathy is so popular ... no matter how bad things get, it won't bother you if you don't care.

    Ironic, isn't it? The fact that the "money, power, toys, and sex 'till your d!ck bleeds" route is just as much what other people have in mind for you as the "mid-level drone with frigid nag, 1.8 spoiled brats, and overpriced suburban house" route.

    I'm starting to think that quite a few of us somehow understand this; it would certainly explain how they could be just as reluctant to follow the former as they are to follow the latter ... the operative word being "follow".

    In the past, a man was born into a culture and expected to be and do specific things in order to be accepted and prosper. Today, this is no longer the case. Definitions of manhood (and anything else for that matter) have become meaningless since everybody is theoretically free to make their own. Conformity persists, but it has been stripped of much of its obligatory and moral qualities, and now serves only as a survival mechanism.

    Take a look at all the women who follow the teachings of "Sex and the City" only to live shallowly and crushed underfoot by debt and complaining that men don't want them anymore - I think the same basic lesson applies to men; if you live your life for anyone but yourself and according to anyone's plans but your own, you will be miserable.

    Even religion missed that one. Take a look at the developed world, religions are in decline across the board. They say that living your life for the benefit of others and according to their teachings will make you happy, but it obviously doesn't, or else everybody would be so virulently religious that it would be all we have. You've got to live for yourself and to do it according to your rules if you want to be happy.

    The obvious complaint here is that if everybody stopped caring about anyone else, life would degenerate into a bloodbath of exploitation and immorality ... as if that were different than where we are already. Sure, it feels good to think that you're tough enough to handle that, but are you really prepared to take the chance?

    "Enlightened self-interest" could, depending on how you interpret it, provide a solution to this problem. If you assume that selfishness eventually reaches a point of diminishing returns, or that the blowback from screwing others to get what you want will eventually give you your comeuppance, then it becomes necessary to take others into account, if only because being benign to their interests will allow you to pursue yours in relative freedom.
     
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  12. Permission

    Permission Banned

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    Do whatever you want to do. Don't let all those people tell you how to live.
     
  13. Live-n-learn

    Live-n-learn Don Juan

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    Hitting the bottom

    Yeah I was at this point in my life last year, and am just slowly moving forward from it. Life becomes so depressing because there's just seemingly too much to handle when you factor every single thing about it. What are we here for? For what reason are we doing this certain thing? etc.

    There was a great post (I think it was called the fountain of youth by Pook, feel free to correct me). When we were really young, we did not have a care in the world. And we did pretty much what we wanted regardless of what others thought. It was at that point in my life, I enjoyed the most because I felt so unrestricted (even though our parents are there to regulate our wild behaviours) and natural. But as we grow older, more and more restrictions are placed upon us, as society promotes and pressures us to conform to its vision. We were seemingly at our best when we were young.

    For me, the last several years just blew by really quickly with school and I realized how I was just guided and mislead by what our society dictates us to do. In this sense, I felt I stepped away from myself, as if I lost sight of who I was. As a result, those several years were spent living what society told me to do and not what I wanted to do. I felt as though I lost years of my life, but I understood that this probably had to happen to reawaken me up. Many changes seemingly only take place after major events of one's life.
     
  14. iqqi

    iqqi Master Don Juan

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    bump
     
  15. Holland

    Holland Master Don Juan

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    Awesome reply by Pook, thanks for bumping this.
     

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