Plate Theory

Discussion in 'The Hall of Excellence' started by Rollo Tomassi, Dec 6, 2005.

  1. Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo Tomassi Master Don Juan

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    Spin more plates.

    I would add this monicker to my signature here if I didn't think it shouldn't already be a cliche. A lot of people get confused when I use this analogy and I thought it prudent to write a post on just what I mean in this regard.

    Just like the people illustrated in these pictures here, the good DJ needs to have a lot of simultaneous prospects spinning together. Think of each plate as a separate woman you are pursuing. Some fall off and break, others you may wish to stop spinning altogether and some may not spin as fast as you'd like, but the essence of plate theory is that a man is as confident and valuable as his opptions.

    This principle is the key to solving so many of the problems that dog the heels of not only AFCs and rAFCs, but also the burdgeoning DJ. In fact I would say that this ideology should be the cornerstone to success for a man in many facets of life, not simply attracting and keeping women. A man with options has power, and from these options and this sense of power, a natural sense of confidence will manifest itself. A man without options becomes
    necessitous and this leads to a lack of confidence and a scarcity mentality.

    The Cardinal Rule of Relationships

    In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

    Have a read of my previous post here to get a better understanding of this Rule, but generally the people who need others less tend to be those with options or the confidence of exploring potential options successfully. While this applies to business and familial relations respectively, I'll focus on the aspect of how this applies toward intergender relations.

    When a man spins more plates, when he has irons in the fire, when he is pursuing multiple women simultaneously, when he has options equally worth exploring, a man will have a natural, subconscious (but not exlusively) understanding that if one prospect does not expand, others very well may. This understanding has manifestations in a man's behavior that women key on covertly. There are mannerisms and attitudes that a man with options will subconsciously convey to prospective women that they interpret, and give this man a value as a commodity to be competed for with other females.

    On this site and others like it in the PUA community, we are taught to emmulate this behavior since it is a key element in attraction and interest. ****y-Funny is one such technique that trains a confidence behavior that (more often than not) essentially masks a deficit of option. In other words, C&F is a natural behavior for men with options that must be compensated for by those who don't. This is why the 'natural' DJ seems to exude C&F effortlessly while those without the benefit of more plates spinning (or the confidence in the ability of spinning more) struggle with simple thngs like eye contact or initiating approaches. This is also a fundamental principle in the "I don't give a fvck" mentality that pervades community technique - it's much easier to actually not "give a fvck" if you have other prospects going simultaneously.

    Shotgun Logic

    One very important benefit that Plate Theory provides for a man is that it greatly curbs the propensity for ONEitis both in and out of an LTR.

    Outside of an LTR, most guys subscribe to what I call the Sniper mentality. This is the AFC that applies all of his time, effort and resources to patiently waiting out his target, waiting for that perfect opportunity to summon enough courage in the most precise of conditions to take his one shot at the girl, who by then is the focus of his ONEitis. This process can take anywhere from a few weeks to a few years in extreme cases, but all the while he voluntarily sacrifices his most valuable of resources - potential opportunity. The man who subscribes to Plate Theory can more easily avoid this situation as he goes hunting for women with a Shotgun; scattering as much influence across the broadest area possible. While the AFC fishes with a single line and a single hook, the Plate Theorist fishes with a trolling net, selecting the fish worth keeping and tossing back those who aren't.

    Inside an LTR, Plate Theory becomes more specified. The AFC placates and identifies with his partner because the balance has shifted to her advantage since he reinforces her understanding that she is his only source of intimacy. I can't think of a better recipe for ONEitis since he become progressively more dependent on her as his only source of intimacy. The man that maintains, at the very least, the covert perception of options, either professionally or on an intersexual level (i.e. social proof that other women will compete for him) maintains this power balance. Most successful men have an innate understanding of this and this explains their popular reservations for committing to marriage, In an LTR, Plate Theory becomes a subtle dance of perception and recognizing how your partner interprets understanding a particular man's options, but regardless, it reduces a guy's tendency to regress into ONEitis in an LTR from his own self-perception and the confidence int inspires.

    Natural Selection

    As I illustrated in the fishing net analogy, spinning more plates allows you more opportunity to select from the largest pool of prospective choices and date them or drop them as you fit. This has two benefits. First, it serves as valuable, though non-committed, experience for learning what a man requires for his own personal satisfaction. Experience is the best teacher (though it sometimes teaches harshly) and the breadth of experience serves a man well. Who's insight is more beneficial, the man who's sailed the world over or the man who's never ventured beyond a lake? Secondly, opportunity and options make a man the PRIZE. Rock stars, professional athletes and movie stars aren't irresistable to women because of their celebrity, but because they blatantly, and with the highest form of social proof, prove they have options that other women will jealously compete for and the confidence that this unconscious knowledge naturally manifests itself in them (usually).

    What Plate Theory is not

    My critics will often take a binary stance in their arguments with this idea stting that "they could never be with more than one woman at a time out of respect for her" or "so I should just lie to her and see other girls on the side?" To which I'd argue that these are feminized social conventions that attempt to thwart a man's options in order to establish women as the prime selectors in intersexual relations. If it can be conditioned into a boy/man to 'feel bad' about seeing more than one woman at a time, it only better serves the female-as-chooser dynamic. To be sure, women are naturally the filters for their own intimacies, but it is essentially men who do the sexual selection. These convention's latent purpose are designed to put selection of intimacy on a conditional basis that favors women, and as long as men will internalize this women will have a preconstructed social high-ground.

    The way to circumvent this dynamic is brutal honesty and a committment to truthful, non-exclusivity with the plates you're spinning. If you keep your options above board and are honest with any one girl and yourself about your choice to be non-exclusive, you not only remove the teeth from this convention, but you also reinforce yourself as a man with options (or at least perceived options). Further, critics will offer "well gee, if I did that with any woman she'd push off and dump me" to which I'll refute - not if you establish this honestly from the outset. Most guys who've swallowed the 'female power' convention are too afraid or to preconditioned to even consider this as an option for seeing women. Letting a woman know, or covertly perceive, that you wont be exclusive to her pushes your commodity level up and implies options and potential success she'll compete with other women to be associated with.

    Plate Theory is also, most definitely not, a license to be indiscriminate with women. Just because you can spin a plate doesn't necessarily mean you should spin that plate. Some aren't worth spinning and a man with options should have no reservation about letting one go for a better one or two. In fact a man ought to be more discriminating in this regard since it affords him the best available from the largest selection.
     
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  2. WestCoaster

    WestCoaster Master Don Juan

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    Tremendous!

    Wow, stunning stuff, and so true. At times in the past I inadvertantly subscribed to this theory, just by accident. My last few months of college I knew I was going to be working in some dink-water town with few women, so I dated up a storm. I was still an AFC, but I was spinning plates ... and happier than I'd ever been in an LTR.

    I had a small dose of the oneitis this past year (I hate that dreaded disease) and Rollo told me to spin more plates. I have and am spinning more (only a few right now, I need to increase the amount) and gone is the oneitis I had, and my attitude has greatly changed.

    I can't emphasize how important plate theory is ... it's ignored on this board, it's shunned in society. Why? Because it's not understood.

    Rollo explains it well here. If you are single, it is a must that you practice plate theory!

    Thanks ... epic post! Write that book!
     
  3. ER!C L!VE

    ER!C L!VE Master Don Juan

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    Yep. It works for me. I tell them up front exactly what to expect to thwart any future drama.
     
  4. BrotherAP

    BrotherAP Master Don Juan

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    This isn't "UNIQUE to older and more mature men." You should be posting this great stuff in either DJ Discussion or DJ Tips!
     
  5. WestCoaster

    WestCoaster Master Don Juan

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    Posting over there can be futile as someone will say, great post and go back to being an AFC and why, why, why is this gal doing blah, blah, blah to me ... or, "I'm the biggest pimp on the planet" and so forth.

    The regular board serves it's purpose, I guess; I outgrew it awhile ago. Lots of lying going on over there, too.
     
  6. Tazman

    Tazman Master Don Juan

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    What if you don't want to sleep with women who are sleeping with other guys at the same time? The only reason I'd shoot for exclusivity is because I don't like the increased risk of STDs that comes with non-exclusivity.
     
  7. GirlCrazy

    GirlCrazy Master Don Juan

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    You don't have to sleep with the women to "spin" them. The theory still works even if you're looking for an exclusive relationship / LTR. Go out, date a lot of women, and have your "pick of the litter".

    That's the beauty of it. The more women you have to choose from, the better off you will be selecting one for an LTR. Selecting a woman to get serious with for no better reason than she's the only thing you have going is why so many relationships fail. That's the key to avoiding oneitis.

    Great post Rollo! The concept itself is old, but you've framed it in a way that's hopefully easier to digest for our brothers that certainly need it.

    This is the single most important concept for men to understand!
     
  8. Tazman

    Tazman Master Don Juan

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    I see.
     
  9. I_Only_Live_Once

    I_Only_Live_Once Senior Don Juan

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    That post is right on.
     
  10. GirlCrazy

    GirlCrazy Master Don Juan

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    Knowing about the "plate theory" is only one side of the coin. Putting that knowledge to use is where the real fun is. As a beginning plate spinner, face it, you're going to drop a lot of plates. Some of those dropped plates will have very sharp pieces, some of which are going to cause some nasty scratches. But don't worry, the world contains an endless supply of plates, so don't dwell on the ones you drop.

    How do I know if I'm spinning a plate?

    It helps me to think in terms of sales, so a plate would be at the minimum, a solid prospect. Having your eye on some chick, a phone number in your pocket, flirting in the lunch room, or trying to break out of the friend zone does not a spinning plate make.

    The baseline for a spinning plate should be a chica that you've interacted with, made your intentions crystal clear to, and received some sort of indication of interest from. You have more power when her interest level is higher than yours, but that's personal preference.

    If your main goal is sex, then a spinning plate is a chica that there's a good chance you'll sleep with in the near future. Otherwise you're wasting your time.

    If your goal is an LTR, then a spinning plate is a chica that shows interest in gradually progressing towards that goal. If she wants to be your GF after only a few dates, that's a red flag, next her. Other dump-worthy flags are flakiness, nagging behavior, manipulative behavior and gold-digging behavior. Assume any small red flags now are going to be deal-breakers later on. You want to spin the highest quality plates possible, filtering the bad ones out as soon as possible (it's a numbers game after all.) Don't be afraid to next!

    How many plates should I spin at once?

    As many as you can realistically balance at once. Too many and you risk dropping them all (or requiring medication). To few and you risk the dreaded oneitis. The main factors are how much time you have to replace the ones that drop, and how good you are at spinning the ones you have. It's all about having a balanced approach.

    The magic number for me has always been 4, mainly due to never having much time. Whatever your number is, stick to it religiously. It will probably take a good amount of practice to find your max number, as well as a lot of sarging to keep your pipeline full.

    Plate Management

    The two ends of the spectrum are complete honesty, and avoiding your chicas finding out about each other at all costs. Neither has worked great for me (your mileage may vary), so I've always taken the middle ground. I won't hide it, but I won't advertise it either. Whenever I've got the "you never told me you were seeing other women" speech, I've always replied with something like "I thought it was assumed".

    Also, it may sound stupid, but ever since the "Michelle incident", I've never spun two plates with the same name. It can get annoying (not to mention awkward) when you confuse one for the other.

    Plate Replenishment

    The strict rule I've always followed is 4 spinning, and about the same number in the pipeline, depending on circumstances. If one drops (i.e. nexted), then pull one from the pipeline, and if the pipeline is empty, it's time to go hunting! It's just too easy to focus on one, so keep that discipline.

    Conclusion

    From the time my PUA friends drilled this concept into me (SoSuave didn't exist then), to the time I finally met a woman worth keeping around, was about 2 solid years of spinning plates. I married a woman without ever having oneitis for her (in fact I looked for reasons to next her), and with the full knowledge that that I made the decision for all the right reasons.

    I still spin plates for practice (old habits die hard), drawing the line at sex. Still being able to approach and chat up women that I find attractive keeps me sharp, but that's a different thread.
     
  11. The_Next_Big_Thing

    The_Next_Big_Thing Don Juan

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    I just realized that not to long ago. I was once an AFC and had this problem of getting clingy because of lack of options. Now I am in an LTR and I have options as well. I am much more ****y and funny now. When you know that you have options also. Oneitis almost or should vanish when you have options in an LTR. It works for me.

    Yes, I agree. Too many AFC's on that board and more in-depth discussions in this board. We look or expand upon old models of tricks and techniques or go more in depth without the "does she like me" post. Most people have got an idea of what they are doing (most posters. I could name a few posters that belong on the main board but they will remain nameless).

    This is one of those posts that go more indepth and are discussed much better. That was an original post made by Survivor (the original mod of this forum) basically stated that the goal of this section was for more advanced members to go look over more advanced things then the does she like me posts.

    The_Next_Big_Thing
     
  12. GirlCrazy

    GirlCrazy Master Don Juan

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    To the best of my knowledge, this is the ruthless filtering process that folks like Anti-Dump have always advocated. It's just too easy to let these red flags slide. You give 'em an inch, and they take a mile every time.

    Where's the shame in nexting a chica that has personality traits that you know for a fact will make her incompatible with you in the long term, if an LTR is your goal?

    It's not about being paranoid, looking for red flags that don't exist. It's about being honest with yourself about what you consider deal-breakers, and not settling for a chica that you'll be unhappy with. There's plenty of fish in the sea, and no excuse for not spinning only the highest quality plates.
     
  13. Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo Tomassi Master Don Juan

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    I had reservations about posting this thread on the Mature board, but I felt that this board is where most people know to find my posts. I've posted some 'deep' theory type posts on the DJ Tips board before, only to see the thread sink to the bottom of the list in a couple of days. The general board and the tips board are generally populated by guys looking for a magic pill to cure a symptom rather than taking the time necessary to read and critically think in terms of principle and how to apply them to their own lives.

    TAZMAN: While I can understand being cautious about STDs and health issues, I find more often than not the STD defense is usually a guy's useful resort for justifying his own comfort in subscribing to ONEitis under the guise of 'legitimate concern' monogamy. This is also a convenient 'out' that gels with a guy's internalized belief that he's doing "something wrong" by dating multiple women simultaneously. This then, he feels, sets himself apart from the 'other guys' and therefore in accord with what women have told him they want in a guy.

    One of the hardest first steps men have with Plate Spinning (besides unconditioning their prior ideologies) is leaving the comfort zone of their old behaviors and the justifications they've constructed around them. This, IMO, is rooted in a man's fear of rejection. Most guys become trapped in a ONEitis mentality as a result of minimizing the potential for rejection. Spinning one plate entails far less potential for rejection than spinning more plates. The longer he draws out a LJBF and/or ONEitis relationship the more time he is insulated from potential rejection by limiting himself in this self-righteous mindset that is only reinforced by the women 'friends' surrounding him. To which I'll appologetically quote POOK, Rejection is better than Regret

    Like GIRLCRAZY stated, Spinning Plates doesn't necessarily mean you're fvcking all of your plates. It's more of a spreading out of your efforts across a wider pool of subjects. Some will will reciprocate, and those you entertain - others will not or prove to be less desireable, and those you let fall. This isn't as difficult as it sounds once you've established your own resolve to be non-exclusive. At some point women will attempt to corner you into exclusivity and this is where your resolve will be tested. Women love to say how they have Rules, well you must have Rules as well. This means not shacking up with a woman, not slipping into any routine with her, not calling her more than necessary to set up another sporadic date, saving your weekends for women who've had a proven IL in you (i.e. sex or intimacy) and relegating those who haven't to Tuesdays & Wednesdays, etc. This may seem like a lot of micromanagement, but once you put it into practice in as pragmatic a way possible to accomodate your life you'll find that the decisions you make regarding the plates you are choosing to spin will become automatic.
     
  14. WestCoaster

    WestCoaster Master Don Juan

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    Job market

    Another fine post Rollo.

    Look at it also as the job market. When I got out of grad school, the economy had dried up in the Northwest and that's where I wanted to live. I interviewed for a few lousy jobs, but probably looked like a rabid dog as I needed to be employed. When I interviewed at my current place of employment I was totally relaxed because I didn't care whether I got the job or not as I wasn't sure I wanted to live here.

    When you send out 20 or more resumes and you start getting responses and interviews, things turn good. When you start getting offers, things turn REALLY good. Then the job seeker has the power, forcing the employers to push a little harder for your services. My current employer drug their feet on the hire, waiting some three weeks after I had interviewed with them. My boss's reply, "We were worried you were going to take another job." ---- I almost did take another one.

    So are you better off applying for ONE job and hoping it works out (and that one coveted job often isn't what you think it is), or is it better to apply for lots of jobs, interview several times, and find out what you really want?

    I think we all know the answer folks ... and we should all apply the same theory to women.
     
  15. Ricky

    Ricky Master Don Juan

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    I agree. My game is fine tuned when it is being run on 3 women at a time.

    I had 3 gf's last time at this year.

    Now I am working on a few. None qualify as gf's yet, but even having the pipeline start to fill back up is good.
     
  16. Bonhomme

    Bonhomme Master Don Juan

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    Yup

    Bump!
     
  17. Rollo Tomassi

    Rollo Tomassi Master Don Juan

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    Bump.
     
  18. princelydeeds

    princelydeeds Master Don Juan

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    Very well stated. I can't stand when guys say things like that. It sounds so Feminine. It's one thing to say you don't want STD's but it sounds so b!tchy. Wear a condom.

    I've learned that when you start really laying the pipe right women tend to migrate towards one guy. You will know by her actions whether she is moving towards you. Most really good women with decent hearts aren't going to be screwing more than one guy. If she is then she probably isn't the one for you anyway.

    Rejection is better than Regret, Goodness my father used to say that to me all the time as a kid. I didn't know what it meant at the time but it is so true.
     
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  19. Victory Unlimited

    Victory Unlimited Master Don Juan

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    Yo Troops!

    Funny...all this talk about plate theory has made me realize one thing:
    Most of the plates i've been spinning lately aren't really "ALL THAT".

    They've been a disappointment to me to say the least. Most of these women I've been dating recently don't even merit being called a PLATE.

    Maybe these chicks of mine are just... SAUCERS.
     
  20. honeyshark

    honeyshark Don Juan

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    This was an amazingly good post.

    Peace.
     

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