lokariototal
Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2009
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Hello Friend,
If this is your first visit to SoSuave, I would advise you to START HERE.
It will be the most efficient use of your time.
And you will learn everything you need to know to become a huge success with women.
Thank you for visiting and have a great day!
Myths of the Seduction Community
- Thread starter lokariototal
- Start date
Solomon
Master Don Juan
Top Ten Community Myths, By Solo
10 Myth’s Community wants you to believe which aren’t true (For Newbie’s)
1.Hb10’s-The biggest myth in the community is that you are only supposed to go after ten’s (nothing wrong with that) or that ten’s are everywhere (that’s a subjective argument). The community equates beauty with personality, which is a fallacy. Just because a girl is a “10” doesn’t make her personality a “10”. On top of that everyone’s definition of a 10 is different, the fact is you are attracted to what you are attracted to. Everyone’s taste is different don’t let the community dictate your taste.
2. You aren’t successful unless you pull all the time-
I fell in this trap myself, instead of doing it for myself, I wanted to impress other guys. I remember I even talked to a Charlatan(false teacher) when my game was sky high and he said “dude you suppose to pull a 100% all the time” At the time I was naïve, luckily I came to my senses and realized he only wanted me to buy his product and not sincerely help me become better. Realistically you are not going to pull every night. Don’t fall for the false gimmick it’s a marketing ploy to push more product.
3.You need a Guru aka charlatans-Every Guru wants you to buy their product or $2,000 dollar boot camp. Newsflash you don’t need it, I became better without a Guru’s help, there is tons of free information out there, I know guys who have been doing a method or trained with a Guru for years and they still suck, on top of that not every Guru is as good with women as they claim.
4. All women are *****s—Self-explanatory, if you carry this negative believe system, it will mess you up, even if you do become successful with women, you will loath them because deep down you don’t respect them because you don’t respect yourself (why? Because you are dealing with these *****s), if you want to attract quality women you have to change your mindset and accept women for who they are (not all of them are hoes) and also spend the time seeking a quality women instead of just an easy lay(can’t turn a ho in the club into a housewife lol)
5.Cold approaching doesn’t work—You can’t approach a woman unless she gives you eye contact or another indicator of interest. I’ve had plenty of girls not give me eye contact but they knew I was checking them out, every chick is different. In the Mack community we have a saying “Women do the choosing” however if you are a quality man you can do the “choosing”
6.Rules—Everybody has a method or rules, guys make your own rules do what works for you, just because it works for that guy doesn’t mean it will work for you, plus rules are meant to be broken ;-)
7.Join a lair—I’ve heard tons of lair horror stories, including guys trying to set a guy up(beat him up) because he was better at gaming then they were One of my friends joined a lair, and he told me the guys never gamed, just sat down and did a bunch of “theorizing”. You don’t need to join a lair to get good with chicks. I personally have ran into some lair guys, and they looked like douche bags.
8. Paying for the first date makes you a chump—if you invite the chick out, what you expect? Be smart (you can always go Dutch) if you don’t want to pay their tons of things to do where you don’t have to pay(or a cheaper) for on a first date i.e. going on a walk around the lake, museum, park, bookstore etc.
9.It’s all about me, me me—I hear guys say that, and notice how single they are, yeah keep telling yourself you are the prize, you can’t be the prize if you don’t have anything that makes you prize-worthy. That’s like saying you the best basketball player in the world but you can’t make a three point jump shot, the best player/DJ/Mack can do it all. I remember once talking to a natural about women retention, he said something simple yet profound. “You gotta bring value to the table”
10.AFC’s(simps) don’t get laid or everyone else is a Simp—Self-explanatory, as a AFC I was getting laid all the time, but not with the women I wanted. Simps usually will make it “rain” to get that booty.
there are many more those are just of top...
10 Myth’s Community wants you to believe which aren’t true (For Newbie’s)
1.Hb10’s-The biggest myth in the community is that you are only supposed to go after ten’s (nothing wrong with that) or that ten’s are everywhere (that’s a subjective argument). The community equates beauty with personality, which is a fallacy. Just because a girl is a “10” doesn’t make her personality a “10”. On top of that everyone’s definition of a 10 is different, the fact is you are attracted to what you are attracted to. Everyone’s taste is different don’t let the community dictate your taste.
2. You aren’t successful unless you pull all the time-
I fell in this trap myself, instead of doing it for myself, I wanted to impress other guys. I remember I even talked to a Charlatan(false teacher) when my game was sky high and he said “dude you suppose to pull a 100% all the time” At the time I was naïve, luckily I came to my senses and realized he only wanted me to buy his product and not sincerely help me become better. Realistically you are not going to pull every night. Don’t fall for the false gimmick it’s a marketing ploy to push more product.
3.You need a Guru aka charlatans-Every Guru wants you to buy their product or $2,000 dollar boot camp. Newsflash you don’t need it, I became better without a Guru’s help, there is tons of free information out there, I know guys who have been doing a method or trained with a Guru for years and they still suck, on top of that not every Guru is as good with women as they claim.
4. All women are *****s—Self-explanatory, if you carry this negative believe system, it will mess you up, even if you do become successful with women, you will loath them because deep down you don’t respect them because you don’t respect yourself (why? Because you are dealing with these *****s), if you want to attract quality women you have to change your mindset and accept women for who they are (not all of them are hoes) and also spend the time seeking a quality women instead of just an easy lay(can’t turn a ho in the club into a housewife lol)
5.Cold approaching doesn’t work—You can’t approach a woman unless she gives you eye contact or another indicator of interest. I’ve had plenty of girls not give me eye contact but they knew I was checking them out, every chick is different. In the Mack community we have a saying “Women do the choosing” however if you are a quality man you can do the “choosing”
6.Rules—Everybody has a method or rules, guys make your own rules do what works for you, just because it works for that guy doesn’t mean it will work for you, plus rules are meant to be broken ;-)
7.Join a lair—I’ve heard tons of lair horror stories, including guys trying to set a guy up(beat him up) because he was better at gaming then they were One of my friends joined a lair, and he told me the guys never gamed, just sat down and did a bunch of “theorizing”. You don’t need to join a lair to get good with chicks. I personally have ran into some lair guys, and they looked like douche bags.
8. Paying for the first date makes you a chump—if you invite the chick out, what you expect? Be smart (you can always go Dutch) if you don’t want to pay their tons of things to do where you don’t have to pay(or a cheaper) for on a first date i.e. going on a walk around the lake, museum, park, bookstore etc.
9.It’s all about me, me me—I hear guys say that, and notice how single they are, yeah keep telling yourself you are the prize, you can’t be the prize if you don’t have anything that makes you prize-worthy. That’s like saying you the best basketball player in the world but you can’t make a three point jump shot, the best player/DJ/Mack can do it all. I remember once talking to a natural about women retention, he said something simple yet profound. “You gotta bring value to the table”
10.AFC’s(simps) don’t get laid or everyone else is a Simp—Self-explanatory, as a AFC I was getting laid all the time, but not with the women I wanted. Simps usually will make it “rain” to get that booty.
there are many more those are just of top...
Hot Ice Casanova
Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Messages
- 52
- Reaction score
- 2
There's LOTS more myths in the seduction community than most guys think - and YES, it's based on trial and error, but there's also a BIG part of the seduction community that's driven by a profit motive.
Case in point: a LOT of the guys that are marketing their "guaranteed get-Laid PUA crap" today started out exchanging and posting FREE tips on mASF forum back in the 90s!
Heck, the free stuff they posted up back then was BETTER than most of the BS they're selling you for hundreds of bucks today!
Here's more myths!
1. You need tons of pre-packaged gambits, opinion openers, lines, NLP patterns, etc. to seduce women. This is bull. I used to use Mystery Method openers for YEARS and where did it get me? Back at home wanking off. Seriously guys, you just need to start TALKING to women without choking up, it's easy... Just say hi or start talking about some fun neutral subject. Then throw a little compliment in there and amp up the humor!
2. You need to dress like a drag queen or a goth magician (a.k.a. "PEACOCKING") to attract women. This is PROVEN to be totally false - look at all the guys with NATURAL game who don't peacock for sh!t.
Johnny Soporno, Sean Messenger, Juggler, Vin DiCarlo, Zan Perrion... and THOSE are only the ones everyone has heard of. There are even better naturals who don't seek the limelight and only take a few students under their wing. And NONE of them look like Mystery with all that fake peacocking sh!t.
3. You need to look for signs or IOIs from the chick before making EVERY SINGLE MOVE. This is hella NUTS! Real men don't wait for frickin' IOI's 24/7! REAL MEN are too busy gettin' some poon tang to even worry about that sh!t ! So if she looks even 1% interested, just escalate steadily but quickly like she's already yours. Sex is a GIVEN - just act like it's the bonus, the seduction is the fun part. Have fun with kino and suggestive language. Don't be afraid to escalate like 99% of the losers out there who wait their whole damn LIVES for an IOI! Just assume interest, ASSUME high value, ASSUME SEX IS A GIVEN, and fvckin' escalate already!
That's how every REAL Don Juan treats it.
4. You need to follow a guru or "method" and just imitate his technique, and EVERYONE else is wrong (and "I am right" according to MM, Ross Jeffries, Gunwitch, Style, RSD, damn near every guru!)
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS, Iraq? Northern Ireland? Are we talking about seduction or religion? WHY THE HELL should you waste your time arguing and quarreling and crusading/jihading over this school, that school, and HOW to seduce, when you could be sarging and seducing women right NOW???? Don't become some guru's devoted acolyte, just field test their sh!t for yourself, go on mASF or any other lame-@$$ forum that still takes their words as gospel truth, and see how it works for you. If their free stuff don't work, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THEIR PRODUCT! Heck, 90% of the FREE tactics and attitudes written about on THIS forum are way better than ANY of those gurus with their wallet-killing ebooks and "home study courses". Have the right ATTITUDES, and the words won't matter as much!
5. You can't go it alone.... EVER! A lot of gurus sell you this nonsense story of how they NEVER would have gotten good at the game if it weren't for this one lucky accidental discovery from who knows where or whom, and how they're SO GENEROUS for offering you this knowledge from Timbuktu at only $300 or however much their price is!
Face it, 90% of game is NOT about gurus, schools, and techniques. All these seduction schools SHOULD exist for only one reason, which is to teach you how to seduce the women YOU want. But most of them only exist to promote themselves and take your money. So OF COURSE they will bash other schools or guys that become naturals on their own through trial and error. They make it look like trial and error will NEVER work, that you will be a virgin until death if you try it that way - which is baloney, because EVERY ONE OF THOSE DAMN GURUS had to invent and field-test their own material! So ANYONE can do it, most of these guys are not even that smart, they just have better business sense than the average joe.
6. You need money to get chicks/"it ain't trickin' if you got it"
This is a pile of BULL SH!T ! Of course it's trickin' EVEN if you got it. Because if you don't got it (i.e. money) you can't trick (i.e. pay a ho for sex or try to "buy the babe" with gifts and favors).
Relying on money to seduce is NOT seducing! that defeats the whole purpose of seduction. Seduction means attracting and arousing a woman's sexual switch into OVERDRIVE, bypassing her normal "anti-slut defenses" and making her wet between the legs from sheer sexual magnetism. You need talk, touch, and charisma, which are ALL in the DJ Bible. Maybe you should read it....lol
MONEY ruins that magnetism. Flashing your money all over the place throws a MAJOR monkey wrench in your game. Because now the woman sees you as a WIMP who has no game and uses cash as a crutch (and therefore must have nothin' on his crotch!). Seriously guys... don't buy chicks drinks at a bar, don't shower them with gifts. They will just take it and LEAVE you like the pathetic trick you are. You're either a MACK or a TRICK. Never both.
But yet I see TONS of there "gurus" saying you need to be rich to get chicks. Like:
Tom Leykis
R. Don Steele
Wayne Ross
Whatever idiot wrote "the player's black book" and doesn't have the balls to use some semblance of a real name on primetime TV interviews.
Don't waste you money on bozos that tell you to give it away! Heck, I KNOW this myth isn't true because I've seen broke ugly dudes get chicks in the sack REPEATEDLY. Heck even my minimum-wage coworkers at one of my old jobs were getting pvssy like it was nobody's business. And they barely made enough to pay their rent!
7. You can't game without a wingman or "lair buddies"
Don't get me wrong, wingmen are great, but ONLY in cases where they are actually GOOD wingmen. Most guys that I've winged with turn out to be AFCs who just want me to hook them up with chicks (did anyone tell these guys that it's NOT somebody else's job to seal YOUR deal for YOU?).... and other wings are just annoying as hell and do nothing but complain, argue with the chicks, and basically shoot down our game as a set.
You see, wings are a DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD. They can boost your "cred" with a set of girls, but most guys forget that when you're with a wing, the two of you are ALSO a set! So you must work together as a cohesive pack and not screw up each other's game. Heck you don't even need to co*kblock to mess up each other's game, all it takes is one guy having a negative attitude and bichin' about every little thing that went wrong in his day! That's all it takes to scare chicks away and burn up all your so-called "cred". So choose your wing carefully. If he can't game successfully on his own, he won't be on ANY help as a wingman. PERIOD. In fact, with most of my successful sarges (i.e. the ones that resulted in SEX), I was NOT with a wingman when I approached, or if I was, he wasn't winging me at the time!
Don't be afraid to go it alone if you have to!
Case in point: a LOT of the guys that are marketing their "guaranteed get-Laid PUA crap" today started out exchanging and posting FREE tips on mASF forum back in the 90s!
Heck, the free stuff they posted up back then was BETTER than most of the BS they're selling you for hundreds of bucks today!
Here's more myths!
1. You need tons of pre-packaged gambits, opinion openers, lines, NLP patterns, etc. to seduce women. This is bull. I used to use Mystery Method openers for YEARS and where did it get me? Back at home wanking off. Seriously guys, you just need to start TALKING to women without choking up, it's easy... Just say hi or start talking about some fun neutral subject. Then throw a little compliment in there and amp up the humor!
2. You need to dress like a drag queen or a goth magician (a.k.a. "PEACOCKING") to attract women. This is PROVEN to be totally false - look at all the guys with NATURAL game who don't peacock for sh!t.
Johnny Soporno, Sean Messenger, Juggler, Vin DiCarlo, Zan Perrion... and THOSE are only the ones everyone has heard of. There are even better naturals who don't seek the limelight and only take a few students under their wing. And NONE of them look like Mystery with all that fake peacocking sh!t.
3. You need to look for signs or IOIs from the chick before making EVERY SINGLE MOVE. This is hella NUTS! Real men don't wait for frickin' IOI's 24/7! REAL MEN are too busy gettin' some poon tang to even worry about that sh!t ! So if she looks even 1% interested, just escalate steadily but quickly like she's already yours. Sex is a GIVEN - just act like it's the bonus, the seduction is the fun part. Have fun with kino and suggestive language. Don't be afraid to escalate like 99% of the losers out there who wait their whole damn LIVES for an IOI! Just assume interest, ASSUME high value, ASSUME SEX IS A GIVEN, and fvckin' escalate already!
That's how every REAL Don Juan treats it.
4. You need to follow a guru or "method" and just imitate his technique, and EVERYONE else is wrong (and "I am right" according to MM, Ross Jeffries, Gunwitch, Style, RSD, damn near every guru!)
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS, Iraq? Northern Ireland? Are we talking about seduction or religion? WHY THE HELL should you waste your time arguing and quarreling and crusading/jihading over this school, that school, and HOW to seduce, when you could be sarging and seducing women right NOW???? Don't become some guru's devoted acolyte, just field test their sh!t for yourself, go on mASF or any other lame-@$$ forum that still takes their words as gospel truth, and see how it works for you. If their free stuff don't work, DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THEIR PRODUCT! Heck, 90% of the FREE tactics and attitudes written about on THIS forum are way better than ANY of those gurus with their wallet-killing ebooks and "home study courses". Have the right ATTITUDES, and the words won't matter as much!
5. You can't go it alone.... EVER! A lot of gurus sell you this nonsense story of how they NEVER would have gotten good at the game if it weren't for this one lucky accidental discovery from who knows where or whom, and how they're SO GENEROUS for offering you this knowledge from Timbuktu at only $300 or however much their price is!
Face it, 90% of game is NOT about gurus, schools, and techniques. All these seduction schools SHOULD exist for only one reason, which is to teach you how to seduce the women YOU want. But most of them only exist to promote themselves and take your money. So OF COURSE they will bash other schools or guys that become naturals on their own through trial and error. They make it look like trial and error will NEVER work, that you will be a virgin until death if you try it that way - which is baloney, because EVERY ONE OF THOSE DAMN GURUS had to invent and field-test their own material! So ANYONE can do it, most of these guys are not even that smart, they just have better business sense than the average joe.
6. You need money to get chicks/"it ain't trickin' if you got it"
This is a pile of BULL SH!T ! Of course it's trickin' EVEN if you got it. Because if you don't got it (i.e. money) you can't trick (i.e. pay a ho for sex or try to "buy the babe" with gifts and favors).
Relying on money to seduce is NOT seducing! that defeats the whole purpose of seduction. Seduction means attracting and arousing a woman's sexual switch into OVERDRIVE, bypassing her normal "anti-slut defenses" and making her wet between the legs from sheer sexual magnetism. You need talk, touch, and charisma, which are ALL in the DJ Bible. Maybe you should read it....lol
MONEY ruins that magnetism. Flashing your money all over the place throws a MAJOR monkey wrench in your game. Because now the woman sees you as a WIMP who has no game and uses cash as a crutch (and therefore must have nothin' on his crotch!). Seriously guys... don't buy chicks drinks at a bar, don't shower them with gifts. They will just take it and LEAVE you like the pathetic trick you are. You're either a MACK or a TRICK. Never both.
But yet I see TONS of there "gurus" saying you need to be rich to get chicks. Like:
Tom Leykis
R. Don Steele
Wayne Ross
Whatever idiot wrote "the player's black book" and doesn't have the balls to use some semblance of a real name on primetime TV interviews.
Don't waste you money on bozos that tell you to give it away! Heck, I KNOW this myth isn't true because I've seen broke ugly dudes get chicks in the sack REPEATEDLY. Heck even my minimum-wage coworkers at one of my old jobs were getting pvssy like it was nobody's business. And they barely made enough to pay their rent!
7. You can't game without a wingman or "lair buddies"
Don't get me wrong, wingmen are great, but ONLY in cases where they are actually GOOD wingmen. Most guys that I've winged with turn out to be AFCs who just want me to hook them up with chicks (did anyone tell these guys that it's NOT somebody else's job to seal YOUR deal for YOU?).... and other wings are just annoying as hell and do nothing but complain, argue with the chicks, and basically shoot down our game as a set.
You see, wings are a DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD. They can boost your "cred" with a set of girls, but most guys forget that when you're with a wing, the two of you are ALSO a set! So you must work together as a cohesive pack and not screw up each other's game. Heck you don't even need to co*kblock to mess up each other's game, all it takes is one guy having a negative attitude and bichin' about every little thing that went wrong in his day! That's all it takes to scare chicks away and burn up all your so-called "cred". So choose your wing carefully. If he can't game successfully on his own, he won't be on ANY help as a wingman. PERIOD. In fact, with most of my successful sarges (i.e. the ones that resulted in SEX), I was NOT with a wingman when I approached, or if I was, he wasn't winging me at the time!
Don't be afraid to go it alone if you have to!
Hot Ice Casanova
Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2009
- Messages
- 52
- Reaction score
- 2
8. Never go direct, especially not in bar or club game
This is a STUPID myth that all the crazy MM followers propagate. They argue that if you give a direct compliment at ANY TIME, you become an "AFC" and the girl loses interest. NOT TRUE, if you approach with REAL confidence. They don't get that all these cheesy and unnecessarily long Mystery opinion openers or indirect openers are NOTHING MORE THAN A COVER for guys that don't have real confidence (yet.....)
Does Mystery use the jealous girlfriend opener in field on his own time? NOT AT ALL. He just wings it like a natural, because he's already got the confidence. He acts like Zan Parrion's students even though he teaches a totally different method! Do you need Mystery's scripted routines to generate interest in women? NO, you just need to know how to trigger and hold a DAMN CONVERSATION and make it FUN! For that you need DIRECT experience and rejections, not a bunch of armchair theory and routines.
Will you get shot down? YES. But direct game will IMMEDIATELY weed out the flakes, gold-diggers, and hood-rats from the quality women - which is more than I can say for all the confusion and nervous anticipation that arises from using those gay indirect "girly talk" openers.
9. Always answer their calls to show you're interested/always promise to call them and call them on time
This BS is so dumb, it's not even really part of the community! Yet I ALWAYS see guys doing this sh!t! Don't do it! So WHAT if you miss a call. You can always call her back a few minutes, and you actually look less needy because YOU WERE BUSY WITH SOMETHING.
Chicks do this to guys all the time, you look TOO available if you don't do it to them at least once. Of course, if you really DO have a lot of chicks you won't be able to return the call until the next day! Phone game is NOT meant to be desperate. Phone game by itself does not lead to a lay, all it does it prime the stage for your "date" which hopefully leads to the end-game.
And NEVER promise when to call them. Just say TTYL and then bye, and then hang UP! Guys get all nervous when the call's about to end and TRY to get the chick all "guaranteed" for next time they CALL. Not kiss, not date, but just CALL! Talk about desperate, I'm ashamed these guys even call themselves macks and players. Keep the chick in suspense, never be predictable. That's the MINIMUM requirement of being a real man who's got his life together.
10. ALWAYS make your phone calls super short, even if the vibe is good.
A LOT of "pickup artists" assume that since you don't want to make your phone game too long and dragged out for fear of becoming her "nice guy friend", it follows that you should keep all your calls under 5 minutes, always ask the chick if she's "busy", etc.
This nervous mindset is largely thanks to Mehow and followers of his "get the girl" school which should really be called "lose the girl".
Sure Mehow has some good tips, but he still operates from the Mystery Method framework - which assumes there is a universal formula for every problem that works the same in EVERY situation. This simply goes against everything that experience teaches us about women and seduction. There IS NO 100% PERFECT FORMULA!
*Mehow's formula for phone game involves asking the chick if she's busy before you actually start the conversation (he CLAIMS to do this because high-value guys don't waste time on busy girls - ACTUALLY, high-value guys don't waste time ASKING PERMISSION to talk to a chick who's so far given no hint of being busy - and this is precisely Mehow's mistake).
*Next he loads up the convo with false time constraints. This is great if you ACTUALLY are so busy 24/7 that you can't find a less hectic minute to call her, but it also makes you look nervous and shy if you are faking it. Plus, for the first call you DO want to keep it short, but don't act like "I've got almost no time for you, why the heck am I calling you anyway, my life is OH so busy...." You will come across as bragging and unsure about how interest you even ARE in this girl - which is a sign of SUPPLICATION AND WUSSINESS!!!
Usually I find that using false time constraints actually makes you MORE nervous about what to say during the call (because now you're on a DEADLINE!), and it makes the LESS interested in you, because you called her at a "busy" time in your day, you can only call for five minutes and THAT already makes you look desperate to get through to her - through all the mucky business of your day, which doesn't even exist! Will a chick call YOU when she's busy? HELL NO. Don't act more desperate than the chick. Don't act super busy if you're not. Otherwise she'll only be ALL TOO HAPPY to get rid of this nervous, uber-busy dork! She may even ask you "didn't you have to go somewhere..."
Call her between 8 and 10 pm on a weekday and your only universal false time constraint should be HUNGER and eating dinner. Don't say "I gotta go to a business meeting" if there's no such meeting. She'll see right through it most of the time. If you were so busy, you would have called her earlier or the next day (which reminds me... NEVER believe those idiots who tell you "wait a week before you call"... don't let too much time pass... she's not yours yet!)
Sometimes you have to see the logical FINAL conclusion of so-called "high value" pickup artist behavior, a LOT of it is phoney and try-hard and the exact OPPOSITE of Alpha.
*Finally Mehow method says to cut the convo short after 5 minutes or so.
Well that's FINE if you're low on confidence or material, but if you're really serious about stepping up your game, you can simply continue talking and spontaneously bring up any new convo topic you want WITHOUT awkward transitions. And women LOVE it when you're spontaneous and don't NEED an excuse to talk about whatever you feel like. More rapport on the phone is a GOOD thing, especially if you can work some innuendo into it. The trick is NOT to exhaust all of it in one night!
When I'm feeling a good vibe from a chick I can talk to her for half an hour before hanging up, and I never end up "beta-ing" myself because usually SHE is the one doing most of the talking! Let the girl talk about herself. Let her be a woman for goodness sake! Only change the subject if she's getting into negative territory or "nice guy friend" subjects. Don't go above 30 mins, but also don't cut it off at 5 mins is the vibe is good. Lead the convo, but don't micromanage it. Be a cool fun guy with power. A powerful guy doesn't interrupt or try to steal the convo but he DOES know when to put his foot down and steer it away from boring subjects.
Verdict: call 'em like you see 'em. Treat phone game on a case-by-case basis. Don't get EITHER desperate OR shy. Talk slow and smooth... and you don't ALWAYS have to cut it super short. Cut it when YOU feel like it. Be smart. Don't talk for hours with one chick, but don't give her a nervous, false-time-constraint-filled 5 minutes either!
This is a STUPID myth that all the crazy MM followers propagate. They argue that if you give a direct compliment at ANY TIME, you become an "AFC" and the girl loses interest. NOT TRUE, if you approach with REAL confidence. They don't get that all these cheesy and unnecessarily long Mystery opinion openers or indirect openers are NOTHING MORE THAN A COVER for guys that don't have real confidence (yet.....)
Does Mystery use the jealous girlfriend opener in field on his own time? NOT AT ALL. He just wings it like a natural, because he's already got the confidence. He acts like Zan Parrion's students even though he teaches a totally different method! Do you need Mystery's scripted routines to generate interest in women? NO, you just need to know how to trigger and hold a DAMN CONVERSATION and make it FUN! For that you need DIRECT experience and rejections, not a bunch of armchair theory and routines.
Will you get shot down? YES. But direct game will IMMEDIATELY weed out the flakes, gold-diggers, and hood-rats from the quality women - which is more than I can say for all the confusion and nervous anticipation that arises from using those gay indirect "girly talk" openers.
9. Always answer their calls to show you're interested/always promise to call them and call them on time
This BS is so dumb, it's not even really part of the community! Yet I ALWAYS see guys doing this sh!t! Don't do it! So WHAT if you miss a call. You can always call her back a few minutes, and you actually look less needy because YOU WERE BUSY WITH SOMETHING.
Chicks do this to guys all the time, you look TOO available if you don't do it to them at least once. Of course, if you really DO have a lot of chicks you won't be able to return the call until the next day! Phone game is NOT meant to be desperate. Phone game by itself does not lead to a lay, all it does it prime the stage for your "date" which hopefully leads to the end-game.
And NEVER promise when to call them. Just say TTYL and then bye, and then hang UP! Guys get all nervous when the call's about to end and TRY to get the chick all "guaranteed" for next time they CALL. Not kiss, not date, but just CALL! Talk about desperate, I'm ashamed these guys even call themselves macks and players. Keep the chick in suspense, never be predictable. That's the MINIMUM requirement of being a real man who's got his life together.
10. ALWAYS make your phone calls super short, even if the vibe is good.
A LOT of "pickup artists" assume that since you don't want to make your phone game too long and dragged out for fear of becoming her "nice guy friend", it follows that you should keep all your calls under 5 minutes, always ask the chick if she's "busy", etc.
This nervous mindset is largely thanks to Mehow and followers of his "get the girl" school which should really be called "lose the girl".
Sure Mehow has some good tips, but he still operates from the Mystery Method framework - which assumes there is a universal formula for every problem that works the same in EVERY situation. This simply goes against everything that experience teaches us about women and seduction. There IS NO 100% PERFECT FORMULA!
*Mehow's formula for phone game involves asking the chick if she's busy before you actually start the conversation (he CLAIMS to do this because high-value guys don't waste time on busy girls - ACTUALLY, high-value guys don't waste time ASKING PERMISSION to talk to a chick who's so far given no hint of being busy - and this is precisely Mehow's mistake).
*Next he loads up the convo with false time constraints. This is great if you ACTUALLY are so busy 24/7 that you can't find a less hectic minute to call her, but it also makes you look nervous and shy if you are faking it. Plus, for the first call you DO want to keep it short, but don't act like "I've got almost no time for you, why the heck am I calling you anyway, my life is OH so busy...." You will come across as bragging and unsure about how interest you even ARE in this girl - which is a sign of SUPPLICATION AND WUSSINESS!!!
Usually I find that using false time constraints actually makes you MORE nervous about what to say during the call (because now you're on a DEADLINE!), and it makes the LESS interested in you, because you called her at a "busy" time in your day, you can only call for five minutes and THAT already makes you look desperate to get through to her - through all the mucky business of your day, which doesn't even exist! Will a chick call YOU when she's busy? HELL NO. Don't act more desperate than the chick. Don't act super busy if you're not. Otherwise she'll only be ALL TOO HAPPY to get rid of this nervous, uber-busy dork! She may even ask you "didn't you have to go somewhere..."
Call her between 8 and 10 pm on a weekday and your only universal false time constraint should be HUNGER and eating dinner. Don't say "I gotta go to a business meeting" if there's no such meeting. She'll see right through it most of the time. If you were so busy, you would have called her earlier or the next day (which reminds me... NEVER believe those idiots who tell you "wait a week before you call"... don't let too much time pass... she's not yours yet!)
Sometimes you have to see the logical FINAL conclusion of so-called "high value" pickup artist behavior, a LOT of it is phoney and try-hard and the exact OPPOSITE of Alpha.
*Finally Mehow method says to cut the convo short after 5 minutes or so.
Well that's FINE if you're low on confidence or material, but if you're really serious about stepping up your game, you can simply continue talking and spontaneously bring up any new convo topic you want WITHOUT awkward transitions. And women LOVE it when you're spontaneous and don't NEED an excuse to talk about whatever you feel like. More rapport on the phone is a GOOD thing, especially if you can work some innuendo into it. The trick is NOT to exhaust all of it in one night!
When I'm feeling a good vibe from a chick I can talk to her for half an hour before hanging up, and I never end up "beta-ing" myself because usually SHE is the one doing most of the talking! Let the girl talk about herself. Let her be a woman for goodness sake! Only change the subject if she's getting into negative territory or "nice guy friend" subjects. Don't go above 30 mins, but also don't cut it off at 5 mins is the vibe is good. Lead the convo, but don't micromanage it. Be a cool fun guy with power. A powerful guy doesn't interrupt or try to steal the convo but he DOES know when to put his foot down and steer it away from boring subjects.
Verdict: call 'em like you see 'em. Treat phone game on a case-by-case basis. Don't get EITHER desperate OR shy. Talk slow and smooth... and you don't ALWAYS have to cut it super short. Cut it when YOU feel like it. Be smart. Don't talk for hours with one chick, but don't give her a nervous, false-time-constraint-filled 5 minutes either!
Ridingthelightning
Senior Don Juan
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Keep phone calls short
Every time I've had a g/f it was because we could talk and not get bored. I've always talked on the phone for hours with every girl I've dated.
Every time I've had a g/f it was because we could talk and not get bored. I've always talked on the phone for hours with every girl I've dated.
Hot Ice Casanova
Don Juan
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Hey man, whatever works!
I've talked for up to an hour with chicks but after that I just get tired or hungry or thirsty. It's cool though, because you build A LOT more rapport this way than with Mehow's nervous cut-off calls.
It's a great idea to talk long if you want to make her your gf, but if you just want sex Don Juan style (i.e. with charisma, not some drunken one night stand), it's best to keel the calls no longer than 30 mins... UNLESS, of course the vibe is really hot and she's getting less and less shy by the minute, in which case you can ride that horse as far as it goes.
There are ALWAYS exceptions and exceptional cases. Every Don Juan should keep that in mind and not be totally blinded by "rules".
I've talked for up to an hour with chicks but after that I just get tired or hungry or thirsty. It's cool though, because you build A LOT more rapport this way than with Mehow's nervous cut-off calls.
It's a great idea to talk long if you want to make her your gf, but if you just want sex Don Juan style (i.e. with charisma, not some drunken one night stand), it's best to keel the calls no longer than 30 mins... UNLESS, of course the vibe is really hot and she's getting less and less shy by the minute, in which case you can ride that horse as far as it goes.
There are ALWAYS exceptions and exceptional cases. Every Don Juan should keep that in mind and not be totally blinded by "rules".
Some of these things are myths, and some are training tools to be discarded later. You guys in your haste are gonna throw out the baby with the bathwater and mislead some noobs with this thread. The completely confused AFC needs a few guides to help him out and build his confidence. Every tool isn't for every person. But they work for some. Just a fair warning. Good luck.
Nexus Polaris
Senior Don Juan
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- Feb 10, 2007
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*sheepishly raises hand* That would be me.Hot Ice Casanova said: