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Mystery & Attraction

Discussion in 'Don Juan Tips' started by SexPDX, Oct 18, 2002.

  1. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    How the concept of mystery relates to attraction is often mentioned on the forum but seldom discussed at any level of detail. Anti-Dump preached that guys should volunteer almost no information about themselves and strive to be vague when asked for the first couple months of a relationship. This may have helped guys who had AFCish habits of totally inappropriate self-disclosure but beyond that, it is my suspicion that this admonishion has screwed up more guys than it has helped.

    When you first meet a woman someplace where neither of you have seen each other before you are a complete mystery. Is she attracted to you because of it? No. She may be attracted to you for other reasons, but they have little to do with mystery. When first meeting a woman the first thing you need is rapport. If you are going to target any emotions beyond casual pleasantness that rapport must then develop into a connection. In order to achieve rapport and subsequently connect with somebody you have to let the interaction flow naturally and not disrupt it by either putting yourself completely at the center of attention or by being inappropriately secretive when the other is giving you a glimpse of themself.

    I find it is best to choose something to reveal about yourself that encourages the other to do the same and allow the level of self disclosure to gradually increase as rapport develops. If you remain aware of the depth of self disclosure and consciously keep track of where you put the skids on it you may find that the other person is taking the level of self disclosure higher than you expected they would. When this happens I normally try to demonstrate similarities between the two of us. This helps take rapport to a connection. This is pretty basic conversational skills one might think but if you are striving to remain a "mystery" it disrupts this.

    Just recently I was in a bar where I approached a woman who had been singing karaoke to complement her on how well she sang. I noticed she had a nice leather jacket hanging around her chair and I asked her how long she had it. She said she had had it for a year and then I mentioned that I just got mine a few weeks ago and that my mom had brought it back from Spain. There is rapport. Later on in the conversation she had asked me what I did for a living and I did my little routine where I joke around that I am a garbage man and then eventually told her I am a software engineer when she demonstrated curiousity about the truth. A few moments later we were talking about her singing again and she mentioned that she didn't think she did her best that time. Fishing for complements so I didn't give her one right away but instead asked why she thought that. She said, "because I sing I recognize differences in the way I perform. I guess it would be kind of like you with software, if you did something you knew was not your best work people who used the product may STILL think it's great because they don't know." By doing that she demonstrated a similarity of a state of mind by tying two completely unrelated things about each of us together, very good rapport building. I decided I was not particularly interested in this woman other than just a person to talk to at the bar but we ended the conversation with very good rapport. The point of all this is that such rapport would not have been possible if I had made an effort to withold information about myself such as my job.

    What I just described was a very casual interaction. Now, if you continue to withold information about yourself and don't progress at all in terms of levels of disclosure while an actual intimate relationship is developing you will appear so secretive that the girl is basically going to think something is wrong with you. Inappropriate secrecy among people with whom closeness is developing sets off emotional alarms in a normal woman.

    Having said all this I do think there is an interpretation of the concept of mystery that is appropriate. Give her a glimpse of you that fascinates her, then pull away so that she can wonder what you are thinking and doing in that time. It's not who you are that you want to keep a secret, it's what you are going to do next.

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    - The performer known as Nick



    [This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 10-18-2002).]
     
  2. Brian

    Brian Senior Don Juan

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    Excellent and necessary clarification and I agree that the give a little and then pull away "technique" is very powerful.
     
  3. STR8UP

    STR8UP Master Don Juan

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    I knew you SS freaks were good for something...LOL

    Yesterday my buddy and I were discussing the topic of how to respond when a female makes a statement that shows insecurity. You know, usually about being somehow dissatisfied with her LOOKS or BODY.

    He said' "Out of default I usually say something to dispel her statement". WEAK!

    I usually just smile and let her keep rambling on. Makes sense to ask her WHY she feels that way to build rapport and let her express her all important FEELINGS. The sappy sh!t us men have to listen to...
     
  4. George Gordon

    George Gordon Senior Don Juan

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    SexPDX, good post, kudos! . . . so you're saying that you only *give/grant* information or opinions about you, when it is warranted?- Either when it:

    (i) links you to her; commonality, or
    (ii) when she asks you a direct question and/or you can gauge that she is sincerely interested in your answer.

    Do you think there should be any other reason(s) to give information about yourself to a complete stranger?
     
  5. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    George,

    You're getting close [​IMG].

    It's not self-disclosure that is the problem, it is the nature of it. There are some things that it is inappropriate to reveal in cetain contexts either because the information is too personal or because it is not germain to what is being discussed at the moment. If you bring something up about you out of place in the conversation you come across as really wanting her to know that particular thing about you and the question to her becomes: what prompted him to want to tell me that? She may then think you are trying to superficially impress her or compensating for some insecurity. On the other hand, if you reveal the SAME thing with it being appropriate to the conversation it may make her curious rather than suspicious.

    It may be as simple as what I did a couple weeks ago where I tolf a girl sitting next to me on the bus out of the blue "I like the view of Mt. Hood from here this time of year". That reveals something about me (that I like the view of year) but nothing very telling of me since there is not much in the way of rapport.

    What my wing did a couple of hours ago when we were in the park was comment on a girl's dog then asked some questions about it and revealed to her that he breed pitbulls. You see? That's a little more personal but since revealing that actually carries rapport WITH it, it works out.

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    - The performer known as Nick
     
  6. Pook

    Pook Master Don Juan

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    The girls and everyone I know keep saying I'm a 'mystery'. I don't try to be. I don't intend to be. I even try to explain myself to them. Yet, the mystery (to them) remains. So mystery must be more than what you reveal.

    Apparently, people try to define everyone else they meet. We try to place people in nicly cut slots to mark where they go. Girls do this all the time. They want to figure you out to decide what role you will have in their fantasy, if you should be relationship material for them or their friends, and so on (i.e. LOVER, FRIEND, or LOSER). If you keep defying the 'mold' they have for you, you will be christened a mystery.

    Most people are static. A year from now, they will probably look the same, act the same, and be the same. But if you are in a state of flux, easily done through a self-improvement (or self-discovery if you will), every slot they try to stick you in will fail.

    People see Pook.

    "Look! He is athletic. He enjoys talking about sports. Therefore, he is a jock."

    Pook then talks philosophy.

    "Look at that! He must read books! Therefore, he is a nerd jock."

    Pook then listens to the women.

    "Oh, he is so sweet! He is such a Nice Guy!"

    Pook then cycles through the women.

    "How is this!? Pook is a Nice Guy Player!"

    Pook then pisses off a woman.

    "What ho! Pook is jerk-like!"

    Pook then makes a speech.

    "Look at him go! Pook is an orator! He must get his own radio show."

    Pook then writes an essay for a paper.

    "Wow! Pook must be a writer! Look at him go!"

    And this goes on forever. In the end, they conclude Pook is a Nice Guy/ Player/ Jerk who's writer/orator and a nerd/jock. No wonder they are confused.

    The longer they know me, the more of a mystery I am to them (because they've seen more change). They can only love Pook, never define him.

    Anti-Dump advised shy guys to use their quietness as an advantage to not give themselves away. Terminator911 used the phrase, "The less she knows, the more she wants to know". These two were responding to how many guys turn their dates into Oprah and tell their pathetic life stories.

    Women like men who are like mountains, solid with many layers because all women are gold-hunters, either for the gold of your potential or the gold you actually have. They like to dig through these layers. They get information but they know that there is more there. It frustrates her that she can't define you. She loves you because of this.

    You don't withold information, you make her work to get it out (you are not to dictate your autobiography to her). But you're constantly changing. So once she has dug up a layer, the mountain has pushed up three layers higher. She (and you) are never bored and both of you are closer to the stars.

    Compare THIS with the guy who is in stasis mode. She will go through his layers and his mountain just sits there. Soon, she thinks that the other mountains are taller, larger, more interesting to climb. She will say, "I am bored," dump you, and go for the next mountain because it's there.

    People do not see mysteries in people they have not talked to/met. Why? Because there are lots of people they have not talked to. There is nothing mysterious in that. No, those people are delegated in her mind as part of the 'environment' or 'scenario' she is in. You only become real once you start interacting with her in some real way. The more values and time she gets from you, the more she will try to put you in a slot. If you are upwardly changing, she will be curious. "He is such a mystery!"

    You want to be a mystery in this way rather than hiding your life (but no turning the girl into Oprah. That's just gross.) In this way, the more a person knows you, the more the person will see you as a mystery. This means your girl won't get bored. Her interest level will remain high.

    And it will be through her doing! The word 'mystery' won't even go through your mind. She will think and ponder and create drama out of nothing (as women are quite good at doing). And the more she thinks about you, the more she will like you.

    See? Don't try to force her mind into liking you. She wants to like you. By her finding reasons to like you as she tries to figure you out, she has convinced herself that you are worthy.

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    POOK
    ------------------------
    "As you think, you shall become."

    "Impossible scenarios are ingeniusly disguised as opportunties."
     
  7. SlyDonJuan

    SlyDonJuan Don Juan

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    Nice explanation, Pook!.

    Pook, you've got to help me. Pls visit the discussion forum and read the post 'How to turn from a total loser who is nothing to something?'
     
  8. diplomatic_lies

    diplomatic_lies Master Don Juan

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    Pook - I think I've probably learnt the most from you. I've began to develop habit to improve myself more over getting women. Thanks for your advice!
     
  9. SexPDX

    SexPDX Master Don Juan

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    Good post, Pook. Nice to see you in this thread.

    This is all true. However, the mystery you become over time to people who have a long-term observation of you is a separate topic in some ways from what I am talking about. I normally compress the time frame to one or two encounters with me before sex happens or at least that's what I shoot for.

    I agree, that's what I meant by "AFC habits of totally inappropriate self-disclosure". The minute you remind her of an Oprah/Dr. Phil session you are in LJBF land at best.

    I disagree with this. There are many women who stay with men in what you are calling stasis. Some women like stasis, not that I am recommending it. Also, even if this is true, the good thing about women is that there are plenty of them.

    ------------------
    - The performer known as Nick
     
  10. thecraftylefty

    thecraftylefty Senior Don Juan

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    I should go through the older tips more often. The older guys definitely know what they're talking about.

    Good stuff.

    "If your rap is strong it can't go wrong."

    thecraftylefty
     
  11. upcomingDJ

    upcomingDJ Don Juan

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    my god pook, i was already like this and i didnt really realize i was doing this until now... there are times i would be doing my work during class and being a 'nerd'.. then days i would be joking around...i would dress differently so nothing similar the next day.. just being unpredictable... sometimes late to class... sometimes early... grow my hair out so i look different... raise my hand a lot then not at all....i wear different colognes (rotating) as well as my watches/jewelry... lots of attention with the girl then ignore her the next... so the key to this is: unpredictability... do things that will even shock YOURSELF
     

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