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Friendzone can be a sign of respect

Pandora

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So I recently had sex with a female friend. I was in the friend zone for 3 years at least. Pretty deep in the friend zone. This girl used to say that she would never ever hook up with me. I "wasn't he type etc". She once said that I "have a .0001% chance with her and even if i was the last guy on earth I still would not get it". She would call me her buddy etc etc. I mean I thought I had no chance in hell. Well it happened and I learned a few things from it.

1.) Not all friend zones are created equal. Some girls don't **** you becuz you are repulsive but some don't **** you because they actually look at you with respect. After we had sex she told me that one of the reasons that she didn't do it is because she looked at me as nice. Nice meaning a good person. She didn't mean nice as not sexual. I have a reputation in the friend circle for being overtly sexual and for sleeping with a decent amount of girls. She has met some of my plates. What she meant was a decent guy. Many women don't want to soil a good hearted guy with their "dirty" sexuality. Most women attach a deep sense of guilt to sex. Even if they are *****s they can recognize a person that has a good soul. If she doesn't necessarily view herself as pure she will not want to contaminate the relationship with messy sex.

2.) Women admire good men. While they may not have sex with a good hearted alpha, they do respect them. In the manosphere we wrongly assume that just because a women admires you that she will have sex with you. The real world is slightly more complicated than that. That admiration is often a barrier to sex. If she admires you then it is because you exhibit rare traits like kindness, listening, bravery all in one package. She can count of you to be her rock. Why would she risk losing such a good guy in her life? Most men are not good people. You are the rare good person in her life. You are that light in a sea of darkness. Many girls will not want to risk that. She said the following
---- " what if we have sex and I catch feelings?" = She knew how valuable I was and didn't want to risk getting attached to a guy that is higher value. Many girls know that they can't keep your attention so they either don't smash or run away after sex because they'd don't feel worthy. I was shocked when she said this because the whole time she fronted like she was not attracted to me at all.

---- " we can't have sex because our other mutual friend really admires you" This is supporting evidence that many girls don't want to be the one to mess with the good guy. The pure one. Every guy they get sexual with ends up disappointing.

3.) Sex changes every relationship. While I don't regret having sex with her it did change the nature of the relationship. It changed the dynamic. She even predicted it and warn me that it would. She said " it will mess things up" to paraphrase. Now I can't hang out with her without wanting to smash. So there is less of a friendship now because I have less of a tolerance of hearing her problems. All I am thinking is that I want to smash. She did in a way lose a friend.

In summary if a girl thinks you are a great guy they may not have sex with you. We often look at this as a sign of disrespect. But it is a compliment sometimes. They know that you are more special than they are. They want to keep you around because you are too valuable to risk. They can be sexually attracted to you, but that doesn't mean that they will risk it.

4.) When they are heart broken they will sleep with the "friend". So this girl had basically been ghosted by a guy she really liked. She was heartbroken. This is when they are most vulnerable. This is when she gave me an opportunity. This shows that some friend zone guys are not unattractive in an objective sense, they are just unattractive in a relative sense. She is still attracted to you, its just that you are lower on the list than everyone else. If her list clears up then you are now number one. There are some friend zone guys that are not even on the list at all. This is the deep friend zone. The girl actually finds that guy repulsive.

5.) The reason you are low on their list is because while attractive, you are not their "ideal" type of attractive. I even asked this girl " I thought you said I was unattractive to you", she answered " well you are attractive enough". So that shows something I long suspected. Its not that you are unattractive. Its that you are unattractive in relative terms. You are not her typical type. So why would she risk her friendship ( something good) to sleep with a guy that she just finds kinda cute.

6.) A gf once told me that " if a girl is putting effort into a friendship, then on some level she likes you". I have found this to be true. Not all friend zones are created equal.
 

Pandora

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TL/DR: Backup Option
yes pretty much. Its not because they view you as asexual like much of PUA culture like to believe. You are sexy to them.....just way down on the list. You are the sexy back up option. But if you get them in the right circumstances like drunk, heartbroken etc etc it is easier to break out of the "friend zone" than some would like to believe.
 

sazc

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I've never friend zoned a dude that I was attracted to. IMO she's trying to make you into an orbiter
 

resilient

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@deesade, my favorite part of that image/meme is the caption translating her words perfectly from w0manese to basically: blah blah blah not interested, I have better options higher up on my HSL at the moment, I'll call/text/social media you as a temp branch if your number is ever up (in which case I'll chuck if I get a better offer). :lol:
 

resilient

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One of the things I give credit to this forum is after your own real-life experiences in dating through the years, running into many types and the stories you hear on here is really seeing reality for what it is. You don't let your hamster just assume you're her only option and that she's all in. You just don't.

Truly grasping what her interest level is with sound reasoning and logic that tells you what you're really dealing with.

You cut through the games, plan the exit and walk accordingly.

You don't sit around hoping, waiting, pleading, begging, trying to change, chase a carrot and pray you can resurrect her interest level and convince her she wants to be attracted.

It really is that simple.

She's either attracted or she isn't.

Words are just words.
 

raider87

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I liked point number 2 & think it makes pretty good sense.
 

guru1000

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Hundreds (close to 1000) women, and I honestly never been friendzoned--ever. Maybe it's because I'm such a dlck ... no girl wants to be friends with me. LOL
 

Pandora

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I've never friend zoned a dude that I was attracted to. IMO she's trying to make you into an orbiter
But she had sex with me and sucked my junk. Have you ever fu*ked a guy that you were unattracted to? See this is what makes this so interesting. Thats why I am saying, women can friendzone a guy that they are attracted to. It sounds crazy but it happens. When the value disparity is too much they sometimes do. There are no hard fast rules with women. They are very chaotic in their nature. My whole point is that we sometimes mistakenly think that we lost the lay because we are not attractive enough....but often it is because we are too valuable. I know it sounds crazy but I have seen it before. Blackdragon also made a post about it. A good one too. Check it out.
 

Pandora

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There's a lot of male-hamstering going on in that op.
its not hamstering because I had wild nasty sex with her. If i didnt have sex with her it would be hamstering. But I did. I reached the finish line. There are women that secretly think you are attractive but for whatever reason do not want to cross that line with you. It could be because of race, religion etc etc. But I am telling you not all friendzones are created equal. Depending on the friendzone that you are in it can be easier to get out of than you think. Many girls actually think their guy friends are attractive but they love the power they have over them. So they dont want to trade the adoration for what could be mediocre sex. They rather have the attention. If they **** you and then you leave ( or treat them different) then they lose. They love having a valuable guy adore them more than they want the ****. Sometimes on this forum we make things too black and white. There is a shade of grey in the real world. Just sayin
 

Pandora

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If all of this is true, why do they suddenly decide to sleep with you when the wall is hitting?
Danger, all I am saying is that there are friendzone guys that she will never ever sleep with. That is the real friendzone. That is when a girl is just not attracted to the guy. But the other friendzone is when the girl is attracted to you meaning she can get wet for you or orgasm with you but she just doesnt want to take it there. The reason is because she has other more appealing options and/or she loves being adored. You are a bright light in her dark world. She does not want to compromise that. Many times these girls get jealous when you are with other girls. But you are right they do sleep with you when their options are low but the fact that they sleep with you at all shows that you were never really in the "friend zone". You were in the " back up plan zone" or " he is cute and I like the power I have over him zone". Friendzone means she sees you as an asexual being. That is not the case many times.
 
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Pandora

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This is wrong thinking. That girl actually means that. She actually does not want to risk the friendship. We need to know when to be dogmatic and when not to be dogmatic. Not all friendzones are the same. If you are a handsome guy, and she knows that you get attractive women, and she is putting effort into the friendship....then on some level she likes you. Trust me. Women are just very good at cognitive dissoinance. She will fight that urge and suppress it and it will come out in weird ways. You gf's wont want her around because they can pick up that on some level she likes you.

Women know that sex leads to loss. Modern women get that. Some women dont want to **** what they cant risk to lose. It is true. Now she may not be aroused by you per se...but she is definately attracted to you. Both arousal and attraction can lead to sex. One is just quicker than the other.
 

Pandora

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The guys in the friendzone that I am referring to have more attraction than arousal qualities. So she can suppress her need to **** you, but best believe that she has thought about it. One day she just might. Again, if she is the one putting more effort into the relationship she likes you on some level. Bring her around other girls that you are ****ing and see how she acts. This will tell you everything. Women are waaay more complicated than this black and white thinking we have around here. They are chaotic creatures.
 
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Pandora

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She's either attracted or she isn't.

Words are just words.
I used to think like this but this is not true in many cases. It is a good rule of thumb tho. It keeps things simple. But I keep saying and one day you will see, thier is probably a girl in your life right now who treats you like a friend but secretly wants to **** you. She is just afraid or suppressing it, or has other more compatible options. My best friend has smashed about half of the girls that put him in the friend zone. I was shocked and until recently I never understood how that was possible. But it is. Again, if a female friend likes being around you, and you are handsome on some level, not matter what she says....she likes you romantically atleast on some level. So you can under the right circumstances exploit this.
The girls that put me in the friendzone know that I smash other girls. They meet my gfs and vice versa. No one is saying wait around and ***** beg. What I am saying is that girls withold sex for many reasons. It is not always because they are not attracted to you. Sometimes they view you as too valuable to even risk losing. Most modern women do not have positive associations with sex. Sex for them is connected to hurt and pain and loss. So why would she want to bring that into a seemingly pure relationship. If it aint broken dont fix it. I dont expect many to understand this or believe me but it does happen more often than we think.
 

Who Dares Win

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I'm perfectly fine to be the 5th or 6th option when it comes of sex for a girl, I dont feel disrespected for the simple fact that I invested nothing in her overall therefore its still a positive return.

Guys get pissed off in these cases cause they waste time and effort to have little return, but if you invest nothing on a girl and get somethings its still a plus.
 

Pandora

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Being a lower options means she is marginally attracted to you, and she has run out of better options.

If you didn't exist, then the guy one rung below you on the "friend zone" list would be the one who suddenly thought his ship came in.

Sure she will sleep with the friend zone guy, if she has no other options and has to finally secure a male resource for the rest of her life.

It has nothing to do with respect or being "a light in her life".
I agree with this. I previously thought that there was no sexual attraction at all. This is why i was surprised. I am learning that they are sexually attracted to you...just not in relative terms. The manosphere sometimes teaches that they are not attracted to you at all. Thats all I am saying.
 

Pandora

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I'm perfectly fine to be the 5th or 6th option when it comes of sex for a girl, I dont feel disrespected for the simple fact that I invested nothing in her overall therefore its still a positive return.

Guys get pissed off in these cases cause they waste time and effort to have little return, but if you invest nothing on a girl and get somethings its still a plus.
Yeh that true. Dont invest anything and wait them out. Often times it happens. I never bought this girl dinner. I bought her drinks a few times and she gave me drinks a few times. It was a net gain. I used to think it was a sign of disrespect but its really just a sign of wait your turn. I will never ever wife a girl that makes me wait but I will definately smash one.
 

Pandora

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You never really know if they are sexually attracted until they sleep with you over and over and actually push for it even when they "have you".
Yeh you are right. I think i was overlooking this point. Just because they sleep with you once doesn't mean that they are really attracted to you. How many times do we see women married to a beta husband stop having sex with them. I think a good criteria is if they push for it.
 

Urbanyst

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Women friendzone you because they're not that into you and they know they can get away with it.

When you move from the friendzone to sex.. its usually because the woman had a reality check in her life and realized maybe she cannot do as good as she thought. Its a combination of hypergamy at work mixed with her bio clock ticking louder with each passing day. When she friendzoned you 3 years ago her SMV was higher than today.

Most women settle in the end. Not because they want to.. but because they have to.

A good strategy for beta guys is to make friends with loads of HOT women and just wait around. After loads of other men hammer out her vagina and stretch it out and her SMV starts to dip significantly.. you can come in with your expensive ring and propose to her. When she divorces you in a few years and takes half your sh*t along with any kids you might of had. Do it again. Only this time, you can tell women you are "divorced" which makes you looks "safe" to get screwed over again lol.
 

Pandora

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Women friendzone you because they're not that into you and they know they can get away with it.

When you move from the friendzone to sex.. its usually because the woman had a reality check in her life and realized maybe she cannot do as good as she thought. Its a combination of hypergamy at work mixed with her bio clock ticking louder with each passing day. When she friendzoned you 3 years ago her SMV was higher than today.
Yeh true.
 
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