Thank you gentlemen, for your responses. Zekko, I'm confused by what you are saying. First, I'm not putting the girl on a pedestal at all. Basically I'm saying that that is what the other guys were doing, so don't do that. They were so obvious in their lust for these women, which was just like so many other men they met, that there was nothing interesting about them, nothing that made them attractive to the women. Maybe this is a tough concept to some men. I remember a woman who was so in love with me that she was always around. When I was gone for a couple days, she would write love letters and slide them under my door. I got sick of her. She bored me. Imagine you're a woman and you have not one, but numerous men who suck up to you like that. Sure, there are a lot of men out there who are not supplicating wimps. Some men are better at it. But these women, at least the really beautiful ones, which are the type of women I was talking about, are very good at seeing through even the better-disguised desperation. Even these men bore her. I'll have to go back and re-read my old posts here, but I don't think I said these guys were afraid to talk to these women. Like you said, they're pretty much ALL flirting with her. And out of all these men, how many are having any luck? All I'm saying is, you can't be the guy she expects, the guy she meets hundreds of times a week. I don't claim this to be some big revelation, I just wrote this from my observations, and I know it to be true. DJ So Steve: Who cares if she had a boyfriend? I don't get why some guys think a boyfriend matters at all. If you like her, go get her. Period. A minor point, but she did not next me. To be nexted, there had to be something going on to begin with. All we had at that point was me talking dirty and grabbing her ass. Not much else. My purpose was not to sleep with her. I wanted to have sex with her. Yes, the AFC in me did rear his ugly head, but I don't think it was related to the amount of attention I received from her. She doesn't have to break up with her boyfriend to be with me. If he wants to buy her flowers and pick her up from work while I'm fvcking her, I'm cool with that. And if she gets tired of me, I'm cool with that too. No, I wasn't trying to test myself. Why would I do that? I wanted sex. She did work well as social proof, but uh, did I mention I wanted sex? I didn't post again because shortly after the events posted here, a great tragedy struck me. My life got altered drastically, and a series of events occurred which totally changed my life. I went through a type of hell most people never experience. This is why I disappeared from this forum for many years. I had new priorities, and as the years passed I unfortunately forgot much of what I used to know about gaming women. I've spent the last couple years returning somewhat to my old lifestyle, trying to snag women the way I used to, with mixed results. I did not have sex with her back in 2002. But in 2008 I ran into her again. Her booty was a little bigger, and in my opinion, better. We talked about old times and all that crap. I was very frank with her. I told her that I no longer had the time to beat around the bush. I had always been attracted to her, but if she wasn't feeling it with me, then we should both move on. She didn't want to move on. Apparently she had matured a little. We had our fun. I actually did sleep with her, but that was because sex makes you tired. I still have her number, but haven't called her in awhile. She's busy with some other guy and wants me to respect that, so I am. Kenny: That's basically what I was saying, except for being superior. And I don't think you should hide that you want sex, just that you aren't going to play by her rules to get it.