Can you bulk as a vegetarian?

[xyzzy]

Oh yeah I forgot..... It has been said a few times on this thread that vegetables have a nervous system. This is false.

That article was a good laugh. The only reason any living organism needs a brain is to move.

In fact, there is an organism that lives in the ocean that spends the first part of its life swimming around. Then it finds a good rock to attach to and then digests (absorbs) its own brain to conserve energy because it doesnt need it anymore. Then in its "plant" form it reproduces and starts its cycle of life over.

In fact, over 60% of our brain is dedicated to the physical act of moving, and a large percentage of that is for our hands. Most of the rest of the brain is for controling involuntary actions, such as pumping our heart and breathing (again, "moving").

Eating plants is still killing a living organism to gain its nutrients, whether it has a brain and a central nervous system is really immaterial.

 

[Viroid]

Originally posted by Zelemont
Oh yeah I forgot..... It has been said a few times on this thread that vegetables have a nervous system. This is false.

How do you know this? Youve drawn your conclusions from the link you posted?

Sorry, but that article is not going to cut it. It has NO REFERENCES and a Dr. of philosphy wrote it.

 

[Zelemont]

Viroid... I drew my conclusion from many different sources that I have read in the past. I just posted that page because it was the first thing I found about the topic, and having some source to back me up is better than no source at all.

I wont even bother to use a source for anything anymore. Nomatter what it will be "unreliable".. even if it is only unreliable because I'm a vegetarian.

Eating plants is still killing a living organism to gain its nutrients, whether it has a brain and a central nervous system is really immaterial.

Yeah, but people go vegan because they want to cause the least amount of pain possible. It is more than just the idea of killing: it is the idea of the pain an animal has to experience. Nomatter what, humans will have to kill living organisms to live, but by eating animals you are causing alot of pain. Animals eat plants, so even if plants can feel pain, vegetarianism would still be the best choice. That would mean to get meat you would have to kill animals in the process of getting the plants which would be killed to feed the animals being raised for meat, which are then killed and turned into food.

The past few days I have been eating dairy and eggs again. It is very weird after 15 months without eating any. I have found that I really wasn't missing much by avoiding dairy and eggs. I have adapted to a healthier lifestyle without many greasy foods, and I barely ever eat candy. The only things I can think of that are vegetarian with eggs and dairy is pizza and milk chocolate (among many other desserts.) The reason that I am not going to eat a vegan diet anymore is because I hate cooking. I know exactly how to be a healthy vegan, but to do it you either have to cook all of your own food, or have a family member who is willing to cook it all for you. I have always been a small guy, but in the last 2 years I think my weight has stayed the same or gone down a few pounds, which isnt normal between 14 & 16. I am 5'7 and I weigh 115 lbs. With those stats you might think I barely eat anything, but I eat SO DAMN MUCH! I eat all day long, but I think my problem is with what I eat. At lunch I usually have raw vegetables, fruits and a PB&J while my friends eat greasy cheese sticks and pizza, or just a bag of chips and a soda, yet they gain weight from their tiny little bag of chips and I lose weight from my meal. I eat alot of soy products and recently I have had alot of avacado, because when I ask other vegans on a message board what I can eat to gain weight, they can only think of avacado and coconut. The avacado isnt exactly helping much.


Here are my reasons for wanting to be vegan:

• I truly believe that it is the best choice morally. If I eat meat and tell myself there is nothing wrong with it, I will be lying to myself.

And why I don't want to be vegan

• 
  If I were to eat meat I would NEVER have to cook again.
  
  More food choices. (though there are alternatives for EVERYTHING now... its just a b*tch because you have to cook usually)
  
  Leather. I could wear shoes that I like. (Birkenstocks are the only nice ones... good non-leather sandals... most non-leather shoes arent too nice.) I have a decent synthetic leather belt... people never believe me that it isn't real leather.. but I have seen leather belts that look ALOT nicer. I am really into German cars (Porsche, Audi, BMW, and Benz) and they are rarely made with cloth seats. My benz happens to have tech-leather (synthetic).
  
  Wool sweaters look nice.
  
  I wouldn't have to worry about what I am going to eat at later meals.
  
  Less cooking= less stress & more fun, more time to do something I enjoy.
  
  I cant imagine girls thinking vegetarianism is attractive.
  
  I could gain weight much more easily.
  
  I am afraid that veganism may stunt my growth. I have heard about adults who were vegan for a year or so, but went back to eating meat, and then they gained a few feet or inches. The hot actress who plays the doctor on Scrubs named Elliot Reed was on a talkshow talking about how this happened to her. Of course, some people don't know what they are doing when they go vegan, so they eat only a few different foods and they sometimes dont eat much at all. The actress may have forgot to mention that while vegan she was also anorexic... I knew a girl last year who said she was vegan as an excuse for never eating anything in public. On a vegan forum that I frequently visit I have been told things like "there is no evidence that people's growth is stunted by veganism. It can be a very healthy diet." I am thinking that it might not be worth taking the chance. I want to get taller than 5'7.

So basically to me it is a choice of ignorance and bliss or morals and unhappiness. Hard to decide. I'd appreciate any advice.

 

[Viroid]

Originally posted by Zelemont
I wont even bother to use a source for anything anymore. Nomatter what it will be "unreliable".. even if it is only unreliable because I'm a vegetarian.

No, please do. Im interested. Just make sure the article has references.



Yeah, but people go vegan because they want to cause the least amount of pain possible. It is more than just the idea of killing: it is the idea of the pain an animal has to experience. Nomatter what, humans will have to kill living organisms to live, but by eating animals you are causing alot of pain.

They really dont suffer or feel much pain at all. I believe a spike is driven through their head. So maybe they feel pain for .0001 second.

I have always been a small guy, but in the last 2 years I think my weight has stayed the same or gone down a few pounds, which isnt normal between 14 & 16. I am 5'7 and I weigh 115 lbs.

I didnt know you were that young. For a kid going through puberty being a vegan cant be good. You really need good sources of protein at that age. Not to mention all the other nutrients you might be missing. Im not trying to convert you. Youre a smart kid. Do a lot more research and find out whats best for you. If you do remain a vegetarian i would HIGHLY recommend some multi-vitamins, fish oils and a good protein supplement.

PEACE

 

[Zelemont]

I have been reading many different webpages about testosterone and I came across a site that confuses me.

Meat causes - homosexuality in males. (Excessive testosterone over several generations)

Is it just me or does that one make absolutely no sense? Testosterone causing homosexuality?

Of course I wouldn't be surprised if that webpage was just bull****... what with all the yin-yangs and the fact that the article repeats itself.

This site provides some interesting information about testosterone, although it doesn't have any sources either.

 

[Soshyopathe]

To each his own

 

[Agent Zero]

I am not vegetarian, but I am thinking of becoming one, not for moral reasons, but vegetarians look so damn healthy. I have already cut red meat out, but it's a long time before I could give up chicken. Does anybody here bulk as a vegetarian? Also I am worried about the soy I'd have to eat because of the supposed estrogen in it.

 

[mrRuckus]

Don't even try. They're not any healthier necessarily. Go ahead and eat a sh1t load of vegetables along with your meat. No reason to be only one or the other if it's not a moral dilemma for you.

Vegetarians probably are in better health than the average person but that's likely because they actually monitor their diet rather than eat any old crap like everyone else.

 

[donjuanjovi]

Just get a sharpie marker and write "SOY" on all your meat packages. Problem solved.

 

[djtdot]

Yes you can I did. But not as a vegan I guess. But I drink milk and eat eggs.

 

[stronglifts]

I am not vegetarian, but I am thinking of becoming one, not for moral reasons, but vegetarians look so damn healthy. I have already cut red meat out, but it's a long time before I could give up chicken. Does anybody here bulk as a vegetarian? Also I am worried about the soy I'd have to eat because of the supposed estrogen in it.

1) Men eat meat.
2) You could bulk on a vegetarian diet by eating lots of fats (olive oil, fish oil) if it's allowed (I'm not familiar with vegeterian diets)
3) I'd keep away from soy

 

[spesmilitis]

Yes its possible, but harder as meat is much more protein dense that the two most popular vegetarian protein sources (cottage cheese and eggs). I think meat is 2x as dense.

As a vegetarian you are probably on gonna a fraction of the saturated fats normal people get, so eat whole cottage cheese, milk and butter. I would reccomend that to even meat eaters if they are bulking up.

I would recommend you eat cottage cheese and egg whites at every meal.

 

[monster squad]

http://www.vegetarianbodybuilder.com

He's ****ing tiny though.

 

[Warboss Alex]

There's nothing healthy about being a vegetarian (although it does depend on your level of strictness). Humans evolved to eat meat; they did not evolve to eat rice, pasta, bread etc which vegetarian diets are full of.

As for gaining weight on a veggie diet, sure you can if the calories are correct and you get enough protein, but the two most anabolic foodsources are red meat and eggs. If you don't include these in your diet you will find strength gains to be slow and your workouts will lack 'spark'. Soy and other plant proteins, even if chemically complete, are inferior to animal proteins (a protein is not a protein).

Plus the micronutrients you'd be missing out on in meat and eggs are vital to substantial growth.

I'm sure people will find an example "I know someone who's huge and ripped and he's a vegan" - sure, but you can also find people whose diets consist of beer and reese cups and they'll still be huge and ripped. In general, veggie diets are neither healthy nor optimal for weight gain.

 

[Throttle]

part of the debate here is b/c you didn't say how far you wanted to go veggie-only, and so far people are filling in that blank for you haphazardly.

i've known very healthy -- but never 'built' -- people on a vegan diet. the vegans i know actually eat much less starch than you might guess, and a lot more beans, greens & whole fruits than most of us can stand. though you could conceivably bulk as a vegan, i say forget it.

now all these brad pitt wannabes might look into it. i'm thinking of the people over 25 i know with visible abs, and there's a high proportion of them who are vegetarian of some stripe. the stricter your vegetarianism, the more it forces you to be extremely careful about balancing your diet to avoid huge deficiencies. that extra care & attention may be exactly what some people need to 'fix' their diet for the long haul.

if you were just giving up red meat, you could definitely get away with that. if you were getting rid of all livestock meats, that would be more trouble. if you got rid of fish, too, now you're really pushing it. get rid of milk & eggs & i'd say, hey, you can do that healthfully, and who am i to judge your moral reasoning? but don't expect to get / stay bulky on that. you'll get lean, and if you take it seriously, you'll be brimming with antioxidants and outlive all us meatheads

for example, if you just drop red meat, pork & poultry (etc.), you can still mostly make up the difference with tuna, salmon and a crapload of eggs. and whey is still available to you. but a truly consistent vegan would have to give all those up. now you're left with...yup, soy! whether it's totally evil or fairly benign, I still wouldn't want to rely on it for most of my protein.

 

[spesmilitis]

What are the benefits of red meat besides the protein density?

 

[mrRuckus]

Giving up land animals and still eating sea creatures does not make you vegetarian. I don't care what anyone says.

 

[stronglifts]

What are the benefits of red meat besides the protein density?

Hormones. Testosterone.

Men eat meat.

 

[spesmilitis]

Hormones. Testosterone.

Men eat meat.

Does it have hormones and testosterone, or does it promote it?

 

[Throttle]

What are the benefits of red meat besides the protein density?

a decent list of pros and cons:

http://www.slashfood.com/2006/11/27/pros-and-cons-of-eating-red-meat/

scroll through the comments to get a feel for alternative viewpoints, some of which i agree with and some i do not.