Stop these "activity" dates, you're not a camp counselor

I was going to post this in this thread but it was too off-topic. In that thread, though, Espi linked to a post I'd never read before. It really is a hall of famer, so if you haven't yet read "How to Hold Interest Between the First and Second Date" check it out. Thanks to Espi for sharing it.

I wanted to quote something from that post. This goes out to all the guys who come on here asking about fun, unique date ideas.

Jeffst1980 said:

When you DO ask her out again, keep it short and sweet- don't try too hard to be witty and keep these dates SIMPLE. A man valued by many women will NOT bend over backwards trying to impress a girl he just met. Trying to impress her will send her running at this stage in the game.

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I think there is an antequated idea that still floats around, particularly among younger/less experienced guys, that your first date has to be super fun! Something she can remember! Makes you stand out from all the other dates she's been on!

So you go rock climbing. Archery class. Whatever. All kinds of things that do sound kind of cool and, hey, I'd like to try them out some day, maybe even on a date, but I would never propose this as a first, second or even third date.

It just reeks of trying too hard. It's true, you're getting the effect you want, by asking a girl to go rock climbing you're taking her on a date she's never been on before and you'll for sure stand out. But it's for the wrong reasons. You're immediately trying to impress her and you've lost before the game's even started.

I get it. You want her to have fun with you. But that's not really your responsibility. If you're a camp counselor, you have to think up cool activities to do for all the little kiddies because their parents have paid you to do it. This is not your job when dating women. Building attraction is your job.

Listen, she agreed to go on a date with you. That's already kind of a rush for her. Girls love meeting new guys and they really love the fantasy that this date could turn into a full-fledged romance. That you'll be the guy she can go do activities with. But if you give it away on the first date, how is that fun for her?

I never take a girl out to do something I wouldn't do normally in my own social life, not on the first few dates. I may do coffee or drinks on date one. Movie night at my place date two. Then date three maybe I'll make us dinner at my place. From there I assume we've had sex, she's hooked, and we'll take it from there.

No more asking for date ideas! If you like to grab a pint at the pub, just take her to do that. You worry that it's boring? It's not, for her just being out with you is fun because it's a new mystery. If you solve that mystery for her ("does he like me?") before you've even gone on your first date, then you'll never make it to rock climbing!

Post Script: It's important to know why you are doing this, and not just because non-fancy first dates are part of a strategy to get her to like you. I take a girl to grab a drink or coffee, or invite her over to my place for wine and a movie, because these are things I like to do. These are things I will continue to do. If I get into an LTR with a girl, she is going to have to like to do these things because, guess what, we'll be doing them a lot over the years. If she's not a chill girl who can keep up a good conversation over pints with me at the bar, then I know she's not going to fit into my world. Notice I'm trying to see if she is a right fit for my world, not if I'll be a right fit for hers. If you're not as low-key as me - like, maybe you enjoy going out to the clubs, dancing to techno and getting high - then I'd still stick to a chill one-on-one sit down for the first date, but maybe on the second or third date you take her out for something like that. See if she can keep up with you. The point is, see if your new lady friend likes doing the same things as you... as opposed to trying to come up with things to do that she'll like.

Spot on, great advice.. Do what you want to do not what you think she wants to do.

The other crucial aspect that is part of that link espi often links to is time management. If you are a DJ with lots of options, this would come pretty naturally.. But the AFC often shoots himself in the foot by being too anxious at the beginning. A potential date (especially from online) will often go through a week or two period of "being busy" or generally seeming low interest, and this is a bit of a shît test, a very useful one for her.

If you have better things to do and not keep hounding her for a date then she will usually reach out and itll happen. But that is one of the easiest ways for a girl to weed out clingy, needy betas, see how he reacts to her being unavailable. You should be calm and aloof. Remember girls are much more patient at the outset of the relationship. You staying carefree and letting it go shows you dont care there are plenty others.

I do stuff that I like to do. I'll ask a woman I'm seeing to go if I would enjoy a woman's company.

If that's an 'activity date', that's my business.

It's how I weed out couch potatoes.

I never take a girl out to do something I wouldn't do normally in my own social life

I agree. Dating is for chumps. The only time a woman is serious about the date is when she's not serious about you. Girls who want to have sex with you are just as annoyed by the dating ritual as we are.

And I even take girls out for food and drinks, and I pay. But we eat because I'm hungry, where I want to eat. And we drink because I want to, where I want to. On the one hand, I'm on a "date" and I'm paying, but at the same time the frame is everything. It's not whether or not you spend money, it's if you are doing it to suck up to her or not.

This is definitely by far one of the better posts I've seen on Sosuave recently. And very good advice, I really needed this reminder.

Sometimes you become so focused on game that you forget certain aspects of it, apply elsewhere. Good post OP.

Agree with OP. Some things that have worked very well for me:

1. Avoid "productions" on early dates. No full meals, concerts, long events. These kinds of things create pressure in their minds and increase the flake factor greatly, you want them relaxed and casual, feeling instead of thinking and worrying.
2. Choose simple, active things, walk around a small city park, walk down a cool street and people watch or window shop, along a river, gallery area, botanical garden, farmer's market, 30 minutes or so tops for that part of the date. Never "sitting on our asses in one place the whole time for three hours" dates. Make sure she knows to wear shoes she can do a little walking in without making a huge point of that.
3. Don't make her travel much. Pick something within 10-20 minutes in traffic of her neighborhood or closer. Drastically reduces the flake factor, drastically increases the likelihood of her taking you back to her place on the second date and sometimes on the first.
4. Avoid generic dates, coffee shops, malls, chains, movies.
5. Do early dates on Mon-Wed nights, never weekends. They have to earn weekend time, and this factor alone will lead to lots of favorable thinking on their part. "What/who does he do on the weekend? What do I have to do to rate weekend time?" Done right, they will come out and ask you these things directly, that's when you know you have the frame.
6. Find a trendy restaurant with lots of atmosphere in the area and end with drinks and an appetizer or two at the bar there after the walking around part. This dovetails great with early weeknight dates when those places have customers but aren't crowded. Keep her away from the exotic $12 a pop drinks there and suggest a glass of wine. On off nights, if they like you and you look good in the place (a classy man who brings hot women to their bar, not a hippie or PUA) bartenders will often give you flights of wine for the cost of a glass or ask you to "try out" their new concoction. Spend no more than $20-30. Tip well and get known at these places. Know bartenders names, this alone will get you laid as much as anything else on the list.
7. Don't try to drag out the date for hours. Your time is extremely precious, loser time never is. Let her suggest going back to her place never suggest it yourself. If no strong buying signals from her, shoot for 1.5-2 hour dates and then end it. Short kiss and begone.
8. When she does invite you back to her place, never sit and hang out on the couch and try to keep the TV off, never "let's watch a movie." You want to close her on the bedroom or not and then LEAVE if that's not happening. Why waste your time being a couch cuddly? Get sex or get out. Never ever show attitude or disappointment if sex isn't happening that time. No big deal, no hurry, everything's cool. But DO always be closing in a persistent, respectful way.
9. Little contact between dates. A trivial amount of texting or calling is OK... once you are having sex with them regularly, but even then, keep it short and don't get dragged into 30min-hour long phone/text sessions. You have better things to do with your time than that, and if you don't, pretend you do.

Have found over the years this leads to easy sex very often on second dates.

I just had a first date off of PoF, we met up at a ballroom dance venue close to where she lives. I mentioned it right away because she said something related in her profile, and she was already impressed. One thing about the crowd there is that you see a lot of the same people every time. I haven't done any of these evenings since my heart operation 5 years ago, but the other ladies were chatting me up, saying "I haven't seen you in a while!"
That's called "Social Proof", and it generally works in our favor.

Great post OP. I was thinking of making a similar one the other day. I've never heard of a real person going on one of these much-heralded "action dates" as the first or second date. They're definitely way try-hard, but more importantly, those sorts of things aren't as much fun when you don't know the person well enough.

I just go on a walk. Seriously. We walk around the neighbourhood. It's never failed.

Great advice and frame of mind.

I have a first "date" tomorrow (but girl already sucked me off) and it's been a little challenging because I just moved to the middle of nowhere. There aren't any places to hang out and get drinks here, besides my back yard. There is a fun city that I miss dating in about 30 minutes away, and I wouldn't mind going, but it seems like too far to drive for a first date.

Agreed with no weekends

skinnyguy said:

Agreed with no weekends

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This is another piece of advice that gets regurgitated in the community that I personally don't agree with - but don't see the harm in it. All 7 days are options depending on my schedule. I could say to a girl "drinks this week. How's Thursday or Saturday look to you?"

Maybe it applies more to younger guys who use their weekends to party with their close friends, and the idea is not to make the girl so important that she could take that time away from you?

For me as a geezer, I'm usually tired during the week or simply just look forward to coming home from work and doing nothing. Weekend dates also don't have the time limits that a weekday date might. On a weekday, the girl and I (assuming both employed) probably have to get up early. On the weekend, it's a free for all. Sex is way more likely when the girl doesn't have to get up early in the AM. Plus, then she could stay over and have round 2 morning sex.

The more I write about this, the more I love weekend dates. Get the F outta here with your no weekend dates. Maybe no weekend FIRST dates. The girl is not going to think "ooh, he never invites me out on weekends, he must dedicate those to his primary girls."

Come on. I'm an adult dating other adults. We do what we want. We can even have ice cream for dinner. YOLO, kids.

TheCWord said:

This is another piece of advice that gets regurgitated in the community that I personally don't agree with - but don't see the harm in it. All 7 days are options depending on my schedule. I could say to a girl "drinks this week. How's Thursday or Saturday look to you?"

Maybe it applies more to younger guys who use their weekends to party with their close friends, and the idea is not to make the girl so important that she could take that time away from you?

For me as a geezer, I'm usually tired during the week or simply just look forward to coming home from work and doing nothing. Weekend dates also don't have the time limits that a weekday date might. On a weekday, the girl and I (assuming both employed) probably have to get up early. On the weekend, it's a free for all. Sex is way more likely when the girl doesn't have to get up early in the AM. Plus, then she could stay over and have round 2 morning sex.

The more I write about this, the more I love weekend dates. Get the F outta here with your no weekend dates. Maybe no weekend FIRST dates. The girl is not going to think "ooh, he never invites me out on weekends, he must dedicate those to his primary girls."

Come on. I'm an adult dating other adults. We do what we want. We can even have ice cream for dinner. YOLO, kids.

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I meant in the initial stages. I'm actually going to go out a lot more on Tuesday nights because it's more low key and you don't have drunk people everywhere. These days on Saturday nights I'm in bed by 10.

skinnyguy said:

I meant in the initial stages. I'm actually going to go out a lot more on Tuesday nights because it's more low key and you don't have drunk people everywhere. These days on Saturday nights I'm in bed by 10.

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For sure, first date or maybe even two, don't use that precious awake time on a girl you don't know. For bangaranging purposes later on, pick date nights when you'll have the most time and energy - weekday, weekend, whenever. For you, Saturdays are out. So Tuesdays: a drink at the pub, back to chill at your place, then PG-13 stuff.

TheCWord said:

The more I write about this, the more I love weekend dates. Get the F outta here with your no weekend dates. Maybe no weekend FIRST dates.

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You are welcome to your opinion, and the part of your post prior to the above was reasonable, despite sliding in that it's "regurgitated" advice in the community, and that it's only good for young men (I'm 50, and did not come to the weeknight dating plan via the "community" but on my own). So tell us, how much actual experience do you have with early week dates? Doesn't sound like much. Don't knock it til you try it, it is powerful stuff. I did things the regular weekend way for 20 years, did OK, but not as well as I could have been doing. Switched over to mostly weeknight early dates and the results were and are incredible, especially with the hottest most in demand women. It totally undermines the power they usually exert over grovellers and tryhards, and this gets the wheel spinning very much in your favor. They are more relaxed and less distracted early in the week, guard is down, and this is my wheelhouse.

Human brains are always seeking comfort and safety despite we think we want excitement and big emotional deals. Where is comfort, on the weekend? where expectations are high? everyone feels they must do something fabulous? pressure is on, crowds, loud music, hangover? Super duper outdoor events? concerts? Distractions everywhere? People get into ruts on the weekend as a function of our culture, and those ruts lead to anxiety over time, especially for hot, in demand women who are used to lots of male attention around the weekends. IMO people actually feel more pressure on and approaching weekends. OTOH, where is comfort? early in the week. That's when people, not just women, truly relax and unwind, lay on the couch, sip a glass of wine instead of get drunk, go to bed early. THAT'S where I want to be in their minds early on, an oasis of calm and relaxation, no pressure, few distractions, no "next thing" going on to get to, guard is down. That is the canvas I can work with. That is what they end up wanting to not end so soon. Give them two hours of that done the right way, and they will quickly bargain it into two hours... and an hour of sex. Then everyone goes home happy and relaxed, gets a good night sleep. ANd your weekend is still free. And you have total frame. Win-win. Oh and the sex is better too.

And yes, they absolutely do think you have weekend women if you are doing things right, and much of the time YOU DO. They aren't getting my weekend time until I know they are worth spending time with outside of bed. Same for sleepovers, none of that until they prove themselves. I have much better things to do than laze around in bed all day. That's a special Sunday treat once they earn it, not a minute before. Guys if you don't really see yourselves as the prize, your time is precious, your life is full, rich and fine right now, mean it believe it, and walk that walk in every interaction, they will see right through you. The feedback loop of rewarding results fast from such means you don't have to fake it til you make it for long either.

dasein said:

You are welcome to your opinion, and the part of your post prior to the above was reasonable, despite sliding in that it's "regurgitated" advice in the community, and that it's only good for young men (I'm 50, and did not come to the weeknight dating plan via the "community" but on my own). So tell us, how much actual experience do you have with early week dates? Doesn't sound like much. Don't knock it til you try it, it is powerful stuff. I did things the regular weekend way for 20 years, did OK, but not as well as I could have been doing. Switched over to mostly weeknight early dates and the results were and are incredible, especially with the hottest most in demand women. It totally undermines the power they usually exert over grovellers and tryhards, and this gets the wheel spinning very much in your favor. They are more relaxed and less distracted early in the week, guard is down, and this is my wheelhouse.

Human brains are always seeking comfort and safety despite we think we want excitement and big emotional deals. Where is comfort, on the weekend? where expectations are high? everyone feels they must do something fabulous? pressure is on, crowds, loud music, hangover? Super duper outdoor events? concerts? Distractions everywhere? People get into ruts on the weekend as a function of our culture, and those ruts lead to anxiety over time, especially for hot, in demand women who are used to lots of male attention around the weekends. IMO people actually feel more pressure on and approaching weekends. OTOH, where is comfort? early in the week. That's when people, not just women, truly relax and unwind, lay on the couch, sip a glass of wine instead of get drunk, go to bed early. THAT'S where I want to be in their minds early on, an oasis of calm and relaxation, no pressure, few distractions, no "next thing" going on. That is the canvas I can work with. That is what they end up wanting to not end so soon. Give them two hours of that done the right way, and they will quickly bargain it into two hours... and an hour of sex. Then everyone goes home happy and relaxed, gets a good night sleep. ANd your weekend is still free. And you have total frame. Win-win.

And yes, they absolutely do think you have weekend women if you are doing things right, and much of the time YOU DO. They aren't getting my weekend time until I know they are worth spending time with outside of bed. Same for sleepovers, none of that until they prove themselves. I have much better things to do than laze around in bed all day. That's a special Sunday treat once they earn it, not a minute before. Guys if you don't really see yourselves as the prize, your time is precious, your life is full, rich and fine right now, mean it believe it, and walk that walk in every interaction, they will see right through you. The feedback loop of rewarding results fast from such means you don't have to fake it til you make it for long either.

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Well I won't post my whole resume, but suffice to say I do all right and my dating life is always pretty active. In my experience, I haven't observed any difference in a woman's IL in me based on day of the week we hang out.

But I suppose if I were to think about it, I do tend to reserve weekends for my favorite girls. The ones I am more likely to stay up all night having sex with. So maybe I am unknowingly benefitting from that. Point is, I don't choose my date nights based on some sort of strategy. It's just whatever works for me at the time.

I never said, and will never say, to book off a weekend night for a girl that is new to your rotation. I would never do that. But once I know they are someone I can enjoy my time with and have sex with, I book 'em in whenever is convenient for me.