2 Contradictory Theories on SS

[Pandora]

2 contradictory schools of thought on dating and SoSuave:
1.)
You hear from one side of the argument to pursue your interests in life and women will come to you. This is what the MGTOW movement espouses. Im not sure if men can even be totally indifferent to the power of pu***. But some believe the total indifference is the key to a fulfilling love life. I have found that if you are indifferent then you will get nothing and be celibate. This doesnt sound very good.



2.)
The other argument is that you should not be indifferent at all. This school of thought says that dating is purely a numbers game. Its similar to sales. The more women you meet the higher the likely hood of one of these women liking you. The more approaches you do the more lays you get. Simple statistics. This school of thought is the opposite of indifference. This is the way i personally go about dating and i have had mediocre results. This is represented by the NEXTING mentality.

Not sure which one to choose or which one is correct. I do know that i am tired of being a slave to vag*na. I do ok but it takes a ton of work to get one mediocre lay. Its not good for your self esteem either. Being rejected or toyed with mentally is unhealthy for your psyche. Most of my friends are also slaves to getting laid. Roosh V just made a post about how " His Boner is his master".

So is it " Pursue your interests in life and women will take care of themselves" vs " Go out and do the field work"..which one will lead to a more fulfilling life?

[Scaramouche]

Dear Pandora,
Sure pursue your self improvement strategy and Women will come to you...Oh what a joke,rather Pigs will fly..Pandora you will grow old and grey waiting for Mohammed to come to the Mountain!

[Pandora]

Originally Posted by Scaramouche

Dear Pandora,
Sure pursue your self improvement strategy and Women will come to you...Oh what a joke,rather Pigs will fly..Pandora you will grow old and grey waiting for Mohammed to come to the Mountain!

lol........you might be right Scaramouche. Im not completely sold on the just sit back and improve yourself thing either. Unless improving urself means becoming a highly visible millionaire or celebrity. You can improve urself all you want but you still have to approach many chicks.

[zekko]

I think #1 works for guys who are very good looking or live the kind of lifestyle or have the kind of attributes that naturally attract women to them, without their really trying.

The guys I know who bed the most women are the ones who put the most effort into it. They are sex hounds basically, and are always looking for the next lay. They see a girl and start working on them instantly.

I guess I'm somewhere in between the two. I'm basically indifferent, but if I just sit back and do nothing I'm not going to get many results from it. On the other hand, sex isn't usually the number one priority on my mind either.

[synergy1]

Indifference works in the case of extremes , which no one here really would qualify as. Extremes in looks, money etc..it doesn't matter. I have heard of guys around where I live ( smallish town) who are really tall and have women dropping their numbers off where they work. Random, but in that case indifference is a perfectly acceptable strategy to get women. People that mistake that success based on an outliar data point as gospel. It isn't. The average guys, or even only above average who have to work at it in some regard to get women. Its that simple. The average dude who tries being indifferent to women will not get sex.

There is no one size fits all strategy that will effectively get ALL guys women ALL the time. If you look like Tom brady, you can probably show up to a nightclub and stand there and have success. If you are less than 5'10", you'll have to have something else going for you. And sadly if you are a short guy, you will have to have a lot going for you to have the same success. This is why the sage advice of improving yourself aught to be taken seriously. its the only element of your person you can actively control. But the sad conclusion to this element is that you'll only go as far as you can take yourself. If working on yourself includes 2 days a week in the gym and being just above average, than don't expect to pull Victoria Secret super models.

My advice to anyone is to work on not only improving themselves, but understanding how the game works. Don't strive for average like so many do ( even tho they claim they don't, and don't think they are). Don't be complacent, and always learn new things. Lastly the biggest thing to possibly getting new women is to network. People aught to stop pretending to be these alpha males, and go out there and actually making worthwhile connections with people and branching out.

Get out there and be someone. Stop focusing on a magic pill or magic formula!

[VladPatton]

Put them both in a blender and do what's right for you at the moment opportunities appear. Don't be apathetic, and don't be a slave to puṣṣy.

As with most things in life, the answer lies right in the middle.

[bradd80]

Pandora, this is just contradictory because you have made it so in your way of thinking.

Actually it's not contradictory at all: as men we have to take what we want, we just can't act like a bunch of girls when we don't get it. That's where the indifference comes in: we're men of action, but we're not outcome dependent on how things turn out. In other words, we will go up to the hb9 talk to her, and try to charm her panties off, but we won't do it in a way which expresses desperation, pedestalization, or disappointment - and that's whether we get her or not.

[dasein]

I don't see anything mutually exclusive in either of those theories, and have found a combination of both works for me.

[MidnightCity]

Originally Posted by bradd80

Pandora, this is just contradictory because you have made it so in your way of thinking.

Actually it's not contradictory at all: as men we have to take what we want, we just can't act like a bunch of girls when we don't get it. That's where the indifference comes in: we're men of action, but we're not outcome dependent on how things turn out. In other words, we will go up to the hb9 talk to her, and try to charm her panties off, but we won't do it in a way which expresses desperation, pedestalization, or disappointment - and that's whether we get her or not.

i agree. this is something difficult to get some of these guys to understand.

thinking in absolutes is counter-productive. theres a thread here in which i tried to explain why a girl setting a date up in the traditional sense that a guy would doesnt feel right to me and that somehow equated to me saying i would turn down a supermodels offer to a date.

look at it under the proper context, and it all makes sense. some guys have just gotten out of a bad break up or some guys are just fed up with how women treat them and if you tell them to start being selfish and start focusing on what THEY want. then you can understand why MGTOW type ideals are thrown around. the problem is confounded by guys taking things to the extreme. obviously, you cant expect to simply work hard for your money and somehow that will carry over into you getting better with women. will women find you attractive for having $? sure, many will, but that speaks nothing of your game or lack thereof.

the abundance mentality also comes from a idea of mental liberation. if you accept the fact that theres billions of girls out there to go after, you can begin to see why its stupid to spend all your energy and resources on just one. it also comes from what you want out of women. if you just want lays then yea i guess the PUA strategy is the way to go. if you want a GF maybe you should focus on learning how to connect with a chick and asking yourself if you can see yourself adjusting to some of her flaws to keep her around for the long haul

in a nut shell it depends what you want out of life.

[Mike32ct]

I've been both extremes at different times in my life.

There was a time when I was a sarging addict that literally drove to the club EVERY Friday and Saturday night. Then I added Thursdays and Sundays. I just couldn't stop. I got lots of makeouts and a few lays, but it was scary how it took over my life.

For the past couple of years, I've been at the other extreme: a MGTOW who only talks to women that I have to talk to in my daily life and ignores the rest (unless I'm on vacation). I focus on my job during the day and dance class (my hobby) at night. I'm not currently getting any action from women, but I have a feeling of being content. However, once the length of the dry spell gets unacceptably long, then I'll probably see what I can do to score.

You have to find a balance and adjust the dial as needed.

[Bible_Belt]

#1 is like batting practice to improve your average. #2 is like your number of at-bats. 1 is worthless without 2, but 2 isn't worth much without 1, either.

[Pandora]

Originally Posted by Bible_Belt

#1 is like batting practice to improve your average. #2 is like your number of at-bats. 1 is worthless without 2, but 2 isn't worth much without 1, either.

I like this lol

[Pandora]

Originally Posted by Mike32ct

I got lots of makeouts and a few lays, but it was scary how it took over my life.

You have to find a balance and adjust the dial as needed.

Yeh man i can relate. It gets scary becuz u start going out all the time. The messed up thing is that the return on investment is soo low. You get makeouts and once in a while you get a lay. But i think ur right, balance is key. My biggest fear is that when im an un****able old man, i will regret not smashing more young chicks. It will be too late. But i cant let my sex drive run my life.

[taiyuu_otoko]

Originally Posted by Pandora

2 contradictory schools of thought on dating and SoSuave:
1.)
You hear from one side of the argument to pursue your interests in life and women will come to you. This is what the MGTOW movement espouses. Im not sure if men can even be totally indifferent to the power of pu***. But some believe the total indifference is the key to a fulfilling love life. I have found that if you are indifferent then you will get nothing and be celibate. This doesnt sound very good.

This is largely a cop out. Guys who can't "compete" say they are "focusing on their lives" instead are really just too beta to get some. Sour grapes and all that.

2.)
The other argument is that you should not be indifferent at all. This school of thought says that dating is purely a numbers game. Its similar to sales. The more women you meet the higher the likely hood of one of these women liking you. The more approaches you do the more lays you get. Simple statistics. This school of thought is the opposite of indifference. This is the way i personally go about dating and i have had mediocre results. This is represented by the NEXTING mentality.

This is also largely misguided. IF puzzy si the most important to you in life, you'll be chasing THAT dragon for a long, long time.

So is it " Pursue your interests in life and women will take care of themselves" vs " Go out and do the field work"..which one will lead to a more fulfilling life?

Here's the truth:

Girls are simply ONE part of life that a man must master. They are not the sole purpose, however they are not unimportant.

They are certainly in the top five, but not THE top spot. The top spot, THAT THING that you are creating with your life, is up to YOU.

But if you ONLY chase that, that's all you'll get.

It's easy, (and lazy) to put the grand mysteries of life into easy to understand dichotomies, but it's much more complicated than that.

However, if you DO have some serious things in life you're going after (wealth, your own business, whatever) that's MORE IMPORTANT than women, then whenever you do talk to women, (which every guy should do as a matter of course) it will seem a lot easier, since WOMEN are not the most important thing in your life.

Thing of the cave man example.

The men HUNTED GAME (which was wealth back in those days) and generally speaking, the women, COLLECTIVELY, followed the men.

But each individual woman would only follow a guy that successfully seduced her.

Women don't chase. But certain women certainly do follow.

Find your own measure of wealth FIRST, and find those special women (or woman) that will follow SECOND.

[Polish Rifle]

I can see how these are the two prominent schools of thought you observe on SS, but I propose a third way of looking at it.

Pursue your interests, women being one of them, and have no expectations. I do believe approaching women and dating them is a skill, so it should naturally fit in the self-improvement category. At the same time, just because you get a number or even a lay, can mean many different things.

Having high expectations for an event and the reality not matching up will leave you disappointed. Control what you can control, be principle based and continue to approach women. Every situation can be learned from.

[Warrior74]

Originally Posted by Pandora

2 contradictory schools of thought on dating and SoSuave:
1.)
You hear from one side of the argument to pursue your interests in life and women will come to you. This is what the MGTOW movement espouses. Im not sure if men can even be totally indifferent to the power of pu***. But some believe the total indifference is the key to a fulfilling love life. I have found that if you are indifferent then you will get nothing and be celibate. This doesnt sound very good.



2.)
The other argument is that you should not be indifferent at all. This school of thought says that dating is purely a numbers game. Its similar to sales. The more women you meet the higher the likely hood of one of these women liking you. The more approaches you do the more lays you get. Simple statistics. This school of thought is the opposite of indifference. This is the way i personally go about dating and i have had mediocre results. This is represented by the NEXTING mentality.

Not sure which one to choose or which one is correct. I do know that i am tired of being a slave to vag*na. I do ok but it takes a ton of work to get one mediocre lay. Its not good for your self esteem either. Being rejected or toyed with mentally is unhealthy for your psyche. Most of my friends are also slaves to getting laid. Roosh V just made a post about how " His Boner is his master".

So is it " Pursue your interests in life and women will take care of themselves" vs " Go out and do the field work"..which one will lead to a more fulfilling life?

These aren't two competing theories. In fact number 1 isn't even a theory. It's folly. They should both read as follows.

1. Pursue your interests in life.
2. Pursue women you want to bed.

There is no competing theory and anyone who tells you otherwise is suspect. If the goal is to build a complete life, then your version of these "theories" won't do that. This corrected version will. Good luck.

[Colossus]

I think some measure of both is effective. You have to find your own style and play up your strengths. Game is not complicated, it just takes a lot of "at bats" like BB said.

The dating culture is definitely not in men's favor at the moment and I for one am GLAD to be out of it. It kind of kills your joy and makes you hate women at times, or just western culture in general.

[samspade]

I can tell you for a fact that if you don't pursue/show interest in women you're not likely to seduce them, unless you are a celebrity or extremely high status.

I'm in a place where I'm pursuing my interests but at the exclusion of dating. My reasons are practical - I'm saving money and paying off debt. However me being "my own man" and being indifferent toward women has not resulted in women suddenly throwing themselves at me. Without approaches you are just a guy with interests. Nothing wrong with that, but don't let it become an excuse if you want women in your life.

[zekko]

Originally Posted by Mike32ct

For the past couple of years, I've been at the other extreme: a MGTOW who only talks to women that I have to talk to in my daily life and ignores the rest (unless I'm on vacation). I focus on my job during the day and dance class (my hobby) at night. I'm not currently getting any action from women, but

I guess that shows pretty clearly which method gets better results - #2.

Originally Posted by Colossus

The dating culture is definitely not in men's favor at the moment and I for one am GLAD to be out of it.

Yeah, like I said the guys I know who get laid the most are the ones who are expending the most energy at it. It's almost the whole sum of their lives - they're obsessed with getting the next lay.

Some people say that having a LTR is a trap, and a way to be lazy and comfortable. I prefer to think of being out of the game as freedom: Because you have the part with the girl handled, you can focus your energy on other things that interest you - hobbies, making money, working out, whatever.

[Colossus]

Originally Posted by samspade

Without approaches you are just a guy with interests. Nothing wrong with that, but don't let it become an excuse if you want women in your life.

There are a lot of factors involved in attraction, but Sam is right. Without effort (approaches), you aren't likely to have any yields to speak of.

If you are a (truly) good looking guy with interests and some game AND you are regularly in the proximity of available women, you will get approached. But most of us dont have all those variables working in our favor, so we gotta put in some effort.

I had a fair number of girls "approach" me via online dating, but they weren't usually the ones I wanted.

Originally Posted by zekko

Some people say that having a LTR is a trap, and a way to be lazy and comfortable. I prefer to think of being out of the game as freedom: Because you have the part with the girl handled, you can focus your energy on other things that interest you - hobbies, making money, working out, whatever.

Absolutely zekko I agree.