Hypergamy Is All - A True Tale.

[noheroes]

Gentlemen, do as I do and grab yourself a tuck of bourbon and throw some Keith Jarrett on the hi-fi. There's cold, cold snow on the ground and I'm here to regale you with a story sure to convince you that there are no women immune to game, no exceptions to hypergamy. The final pixel in the matrix has blinked out of existence for me, and I see the truth. Not finally, not complete, but I'm a believer. I'm in the midst of the hypergamy chapters of The Rational Male and the light has dawned.

In late November I met a girl at my business whom I was immediately attracted to. We had a drink, made out, groped a bit, and she went home (3.5 hours away). A month later she came into town, and on Christmas Eve we cooked dinner at a place she was housesitting, spent two hours naked in a hot tub, and made love three times over the next ten hours, including, well, entrances and exits on Christmas morning. We saw each other again a couple days later, made love again, then she left town. In early January I was passing through her town, spent the night, and we again slept together three times in a ten hour span.

This girl (let's call her Helen) is feminine, nurturing, sexy, and highly intelligent. She's been through tougher times than any member of this board who wasn't a combat military member. She'd make a killer mother, she's kinky as hell, she's emotionally vulnerable yet demure, and she's submissive and kind. She's an HB8 (at least by my reckoning) and has a slamming yoga body. I have tremendous respect for her and we have a great connection. The only downside is she's 33 and is realizing that the wall is coming up.

Helen and I are constantly flirty by text, but I don't really do long distance relationships, so my plan of action was to just hook up and hang out whenever we were in each other's towns. However, this afternoon (this very afternoon!) we had a phone conversation in which she related that she couldn't be flirty with me anymore and also couldn't sleep with me should we see each other again. Not exactly LJBF, due to the fact that she sent me an underwear selfie not ten minutes after this conversation ended, but close enough. A last sexy gasp, but a rejection nonetheless. Why, gentle readers, did this kind soul state that our trysts had ended? Hypergamy.

You see, there was a gentleman (we'll call him Chip) who met Helen last March. He was just out of a five year relationship, but he didn't tell Helen that. He was a little damaged, but in that kind of way where Helen felt that sometimes they had a connection, and then at other times couldn't figure out what Chip felt about her. In December, Helen told a dear family member to make sure that Helen never hung out with Chip again. It was unhealthy! She was hooked and couldn't figure out why, and had to stay away from Chip. As of a couple weeks ago, however, Helen resumed hanging out with Chip. This, dear friends, is why Helen couldn't be flirty or sexual with me anymore.

I talked to Helen about this man in depth. There certainly was a part of me that wanted to negotiate desire, to convince her to stay away from Chip, to continue our prior arrangement. But I knew this was a fool's errand. So I took a deep breath and asked myself - "Self, do you really want to see the end of the Matrix? Do you want to dispel your belief in a 'quality' woman? If there ever was a quality woman, it is Helen. Let's see if truly hypergamy is inescapable."

I asked Helen various questions about her feelings towards Chip, revealing my knowledge of hypergamy and explaining each step of her own behavior to Helen as I did so. "See there, Helen? That's push-pull. Tension. He doesn't realize he's doing it, but he's driving you crazy and making you feel attracted towards him. One minute he's accessible, the next he isn't. He doesn't return your texts on time, if at all. This creates the hook!" She agreed, but I could tell there was no changing her mind. For the sake of science, I pressed onward. "See how you're basing all of this conversation on the potential of the relationship, Helen? You think you can save him from his damage! There's nothing actual there, you're just backwards rationalizing it to suit the hook he's set in you." Again, she agreed intellectually. "He's demonstrating to you his evolutionary suitability by being unavailable, utilizing tension, and being completely non-needy. His life is the same whether you're in or out of it, and it drives you crazy and creates attraction simultaneously!" Mental assent but hindbrain denial continued.

At the end of the conversation, she stopped me in her feminine adorable voice and said "We need to not talk about this anymore, it just seems so hopeless. I don't want the world to be that way!" I told her that it was that way, but I do believe it's possible for good men to harness those powers and create deeply satisfying, honest relationships. However, hypergamy is always the driving force, and to leave it unacknowledged is to invite disrespectful beta disaster or alpha cad heartbreak.

Helen, despite the truth being presented to her in the most obvious way possible, and mirrored in her every behavior towards Chip, couldn't accept the reality of hypergamy. If she can't resist or change her behavior based on reason and knowledge of the truth, no woman can. The lesson, kind readers, is not that you must be evil to get the girl. It's that hypergamy is the deciding factor in attraction for EVERY SINGLE WOMAN. There are no exceptions, no "quality" girls. They all succumb. It's our job to make them succumb to us.

After all this, she still sent me the dirty pic.

[Rainman4707]

Good story man.

I believe in game. I've been studying it for the last 18 months. It works.....hell we all know that. People close to me have been telling me that
I look to much into stuff....which is probably correct, but I'd rather know & learn about game than be unaware!

[PairPlusRoyalFlush]

What you mean is "game" not "hypergamy". I'll just add that

She's been through tougher times than any member of this board who wasn't a combat military member.

Probably means she's not as high quality as you think...for one thing she's been using you as an emotional tampon

[noheroes]

Originally Posted by PairPlusRoyalFlush

What you mean is "game" not "hypergamy". I'll just add that Probably means she's not as high quality as you think...for one thing she's been using you as an emotional tampon

It's hard to feel like an emotional tampon when you've heard a girl say "I want you in my ass."

And I do mean hypergamy, I'm talking about the girl's motives here, not what the guy did to hook her. The guy was just a damaged indifferent bro who was applying game without knowing it. She, on the other hand, is hypergamous to her own detriment. There are no "quality" girls, that's the lesson of the tale (or tail, as it may be).

[sylvester the cat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR-gZ...90EE5E22C5F6AE

as chip's social status had no bearing on helen's attraction then this was 'game' not hypergamy. and if his social status had any bearing then it was not referred to in the story.

[PairPlusRoyalFlush]

Originally Posted by sylvester the cat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR-gZ...90EE5E22C5F6AE

as chip's social status had no bearing on helen's attraction then this was 'game' not hypergamy. and if his social status had any bearing then it was not referred to in the story.

exactly.

Classic definition of hypergamy is basically gold digging or status wh0ring

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypergamy

[noheroes]

Hypergamy's more than just social status, it's women being dictated by the desire to mate upwards. All of Chip's behaviors insinuated that he was higher value than Helen, even though he acting unwittingly. Helen's response to Chip's "game," however, is the essence of hypergamy - the desire to mate upwards trumps all common sense and rationality no matter how "quality" the girl is. I feel like maybe y'all haven't read the book.

Besides, semantics aren't the point.

[Yewki]

Cliff notes: Long distance relationships don't work

I have no idea why you had that red pill conversation with Helen... were you intentionally trying to get her to lose interest?

[noheroes]

Originally Posted by Yewki

Cliff notes: Long distance relationships don't work

I have no idea why you had that red pill conversation with Helen... were you intentionally trying to get her to lose interest?

a) Wasn't even close to an LDR and b) nope, I didn't care one way or another. The conversation was for my own enrichment.

Also, regarding hypergamy, a much more nuanced set of definitions:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/1...my-conspiracy/

[sylvester the cat]

the purpose of 'game' is to put the notion into the gamee's mind that you are of higher value thus making her more likely to be attracted to you.

in this sense OP is correct. game is hypergamy.

[Night-hawk]

Interesting tale.

[Don_Dom]

Originally Posted by noheroes

Hypergamy's more than just social status, it's women being dictated by the desire to mate upwards. All of Chip's behaviors insinuated that he was higher value than Helen, even though he acting unwittingly. Helen's response to Chip's "game," however, is the essence of hypergamy - the desire to mate upwards trumps all common sense and rationality no matter how "quality" the girl is. I feel like maybe y'all haven't read the book.

Besides, semantics aren't the point.

Your story was good but semantics do, indeed, matter. Newbies read this stuff.

The title says "Hypergamy" yet nowhere do you describe hypergamy in play. The others are entirely correct...She got gamed by him. If hypergamy was an element, it's not evident in your telling of the story. As far as we know, Chip is just a guy who gamed her.

Now you are saying, essentially, that by virtue of the simple fact that this guy that you don't know and have never met successfully gamed a women you respect (and, not to be harsh but, frankly, won her over you) that his higher value is inherently apparent. But it's really not. It is possible that his game gives her the impression that he's higher value, and that would make for an interesting side discussion because that may be a valid dynamic to recognize and discuss, but that's still just good game on his part not actual hypergamy. Or it could just be a simple tale of basic cat-string theory at work and his value, real or imagined, isn't even an element at all.

Nothing personal, but I think you are a little confused about what actual hypergamy is about or you are assuming Chip is of higher value because it's easier on your ego to blame Helen's alleged hypergamy for her chosing him over you than accepting that his game is more effective than yours. I realize you say that you have no dogs in this hunt but, come on...don't bull$hit bull$hitters....we are all guys here and we all know how it goes. I've had long distance occasional hookups, myself, and even though I had no reason to care and was entirely adult and supportive when they wound up in relationships I would be lying if I said my ego didn't take a mild hit.

[Yewki]

Originally Posted by noheroes

a) Wasn't even close to an LDR and b) nope, I didn't care one way or another. The conversation was for my own enrichment.

Also, regarding hypergamy, a much more nuanced set of definitions:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/03/1...my-conspiracy/

A) Thought you said she lived 3.5 hours away
B) Interesting, personally I would have preferred enriching my **** more

[VikingKing]

Women don't really see combat, they can be around it but they are never purposely part of the combat. They don't allow women in the infantry, or tanks, or anything other than a job a civilian could have.

Its possible she could have seen a little action on a convoy. I bet the infantry training battalion is harder than anything she's been through. I bet even my recruit training was harder than what she has been through.

[dasein]

Agree with others, OP misuses "hypergamy." A woman acting in a hypergamous way would figure out how to maintain with both men to get whatever she wants from each simultaneously. Women behaving hypergamously will rationalize keeping FWBs on the side while accepting courtship resources from other men, even claiming to be exclusive, even marrying, may go out on dates with such men right after having a fresh load dumped in her mouth by the FWB. I have been the FWB in this situation and most likely the chump spending money and courting too at various times with various levels of experience/inexperience. That's hypergamy.

Actually, because she was willing to dump OP for the new dude, OP's woman was demonstrating monogamous tendencies more than anything.

OP you basically got dumped, sorry bout that, we've all been there, and I hope next time you will not try to engage in some rational sour grapes postmortem (translated as "begging"... yeah I've done it too in the past) with a dumper after being dumped, and just suck up the disappointment for what it is, say to her, "yeah I think you are right" and move on instantly. What it is is a wakeup call to keep several options in the bucket going forward as opposed to spending too much time on one, and to resist opportunities to rationalize your own game mistakes that led to a good old fashion dumping via supposed standards of general female behavior. Good luck.

[Die Hard]

Take from the story what you want, guys. Personally, I regard this story as another confirmation that reasoning with women is an exercise in futility...

[IndeedSir]

Ignoring the hypergamy/game debate, this is something I have been interested in for a while. I have spoken to a lot of different women, friends, FWB, strangers at bars about all the concepts we read and learn about here and from other sources (I'm a big fan of David DeAngelo). I'm interested in the validity of these concepts and while you can't directly ask a woman what her subconscious is doing you can certainly probe her as to whether she understands her behaviors and how she acts in certain situations. If during the course of normal conversation she starts telling me about guys, exes etc, I'll encourage and steer the chat to somewhere I can learn something.

Firstly, the number of women I've met who've been hooked by these indifferent, sometimes cruel men is staggering to me. Some of these are young, damaged women but more often than not they're just normal women with standard women problems. I have yet to meet a woman who's had enough presence of mind to get over one of these assholes that hooks them. They will stop seeing him, the logical brain is capable of that, but they will sit around and be in LOVE with them. I know several who are still IN LOVE with guys who used, cheat and treated them like ****. One of my old FB's once told me she couldn't get over this guy and that she needed a real sociopath to be in love, the chuckled. HUH? I once explained to a female friend who was in an LTR all about how the game works, because some guy was gaming her and it was working. I then used the techniques on her and slept with her. Then this other guy started sleeping with her. What the actual ****?

Secondly, from what I've seen over the last 6 years of this material and my own investigations, women have no idea why they get attracted to guys and have almost ZERO control over this mechanism. This to me, was the red pill. As DD says, attraction is not a choice. They have no awareness of why they want this dude, they just do. Of course we all know the many reasons why she is attracted to him. "Just be yourself" is a lie. Before I knew this stuff I couldn't even keep girls who were BELOW me. My friends would often ask me why I was dating this or that girl. I would lose these girls because I tried to be a nice, supportive person. ****ed up, eh? Of course you can be those things, but only when earns it.

From what I've seen, women have very little ability to control their subconscious behavior in this particular aspect of life (attraction) and seem to have no understanding as to why they feel the way they do. This isn't to say they aren't thinking about the things they do such as tests and things, because they do know they do that. But game correctly and she will be almost powerless. Men seem to possess more capability to control their thoughts. After I started to fall for my last FWB and ****ed it up with old AFC behavior after a couple of months,(ughh, I swear one day I'll get a grip on this ****), I was able to get over it very quickly by reminding myself of all her flaws, of the reasons I was so attached to her and that I could do better. This changed my internal state dramatically, although I'm still feeling it a bit. Women don't seem to be able to do this and it takes a strong one to eradicate a guy from her mind.

Just some thoughts, hope they're interesting.

Peace

[noheroes]

IndeedSir is expressing exactly what I'm trying to illustrate - the unconscious and uncontrollable nature of female hypergamy and attraction. I absolutely feel like I'm using the word "hypergamy" in the same sense Tomassi uses it in The Rational Male. It's in every single chapter as a broad-stroke term to define the nature of women's desires and attraction - a selected-for mechanism to mate upwards.

Regarding Helen, she was a plate that stopped spinning. A promising one had she lived nearby, but she doesn't. The point of sharing the story was to illustrate my own concrete case that even a "quality" woman is subject to the dictates of her hindbrain. When clearly presented with the evidence for the existence of her own hypergamy and her slavery to it, this same "quality" woman will deny a blatant truth.

The point, friends, was to share the story of a final deathblow to the blue pill mentality that some women are different. Not to bicker like old ladies with Aspergers at a dinner party.

[backbreaker]

others have pointed it out but this is not hypergamy. What you have is an alpha widow. totally different thing.

[Dgwizdal]

Originally Posted by IndeedSir

Ignoring the hypergamy/game debate, this is something I have been interested in for a while. I have spoken to a lot of different women, friends, FWB, strangers at bars about all the concepts we read and learn about here and from other sources (I'm a big fan of David DeAngelo). I'm interested in the validity of these concepts and while you can't directly ask a woman what her subconscious is doing you can certainly probe her as to whether she understands her behaviors and how she acts in certain situations. If during the course of normal conversation she starts telling me about guys, exes etc, I'll encourage and steer the chat to somewhere I can learn something.

Firstly, the number of women I've met who've been hooked by these indifferent, sometimes cruel men is staggering to me. Some of these are young, damaged women but more often than not they're just normal women with standard women problems. I have yet to meet a woman who's had enough presence of mind to get over one of these assholes that hooks them. They will stop seeing him, the logical brain is capable of that, but they will sit around and be in LOVE with them. I know several who are still IN LOVE with guys who used, cheat and treated them like ****. One of my old FB's once told me she couldn't get over this guy and that she needed a real sociopath to be in love, the chuckled. HUH? I once explained to a female friend who was in an LTR all about how the game works, because some guy was gaming her and it was working. I then used the techniques on her and slept with her. Then this other guy started sleeping with her. What the actual ****?

Secondly, from what I've seen over the last 6 years of this material and my own investigations, women have no idea why they get attracted to guys and have almost ZERO control over this mechanism. This to me, was the red pill. As DD says, attraction is not a choice. They have no awareness of why they want this dude, they just do. Of course we all know the many reasons why she is attracted to him. "Just be yourself" is a lie. Before I knew this stuff I couldn't even keep girls who were BELOW me. My friends would often ask me why I was dating this or that girl. I would lose these girls because I tried to be a nice, supportive person. ****ed up, eh? Of course you can be those things, but only when earns it.

From what I've seen, women have very little ability to control their subconscious behavior in this particular aspect of life (attraction) and seem to have no understanding as to why they feel the way they do. This isn't to say they aren't thinking about the things they do such as tests and things, because they do know they do that. But game correctly and she will be almost powerless. Men seem to possess more capability to control their thoughts. After I started to fall for my last FWB and ****ed it up with old AFC behavior after a couple of months,(ughh, I swear one day I'll get a grip on this ****), I was able to get over it very quickly by reminding myself of all her flaws, of the reasons I was so attached to her and that I could do better. This changed my internal state dramatically, although I'm still feeling it a bit. Women don't seem to be able to do this and it takes a strong one to eradicate a guy from her mind.

Just some thoughts, hope they're interesting.

Peace

Fantastic post and thread. Reps to both.

I too probe women i dont care about to get validating outside truths outside of y own experiences and the results are that this stuff works. Period.

Some of the reactions I get when I tell women why they love certain guys are priceless. Making a woman realize why she feels the way she does is astonishing to them and is not always a bad thing. Women have a thing for guys who they consciously know that you know what makes them tick as long as your frame is not creepy.