"We can still be friends"

Robert28 · Jan 16, 2014

Uh, no we can't because I can't go from "I want to date you and fvck you" mode to "friends only" mode. My mind doesn't work like that.

I keep getting this bull$h!t line lately and I know it's something I'm doing wrong but I can't figure it the fvck out to save my life! If girls that just wanted to be friends were worth anything I'd be a rich sumb!tch. Like Bill Gates type rich. When they say "we can still be friends" they literally mean it too, they aren't just saying it because they keep texting and calling asking me to go out and do stuff. Of course I give them some excuse why I can't because I don't have time for that sh!t.

What I want to know is this, when do you know to be persistent and when to just say fvck it and move on? Sometimes persistence pays off, other times being persistent is a time waster and you end up looking like a desperate fool that can't take a hint. So how to you tell?

Mike32ct · Jan 16, 2014

I don't believe in the persistence thing anymore. It's fine when you hear stories about how grandma rejected grandpa for a date four times 50 years ago, but he was persistent, and they finally got together and lived happily after after lol.

But, today's female uses words like stalker and creeper for "persistent" guys. Persistence is not respected like it once was. I have to agree with Judge Nismo (in another thread) where he mentions that we need a "one strike rule" (as opposed to two) because there is too much flaking going on.

Give a female one chance to play ball*. If she isn't up for it, move on.

*I think persistence is fine on a given DATE. Maybe try twice to make a move. But I would only seek another date if we at LEAST kissed on the lips. Obviously, you don't have to score on date one, but there should be some reasonable physical progress or else she isn't physically attracted. But "persistence" in terms of seeking more dates or get togethers when things aren't progressing physically? Hell no. Been there. Tried it. Doesn't work.

MrNiceGuy23 · Jan 16, 2014

You need to figure out the answers to some questions to know this...

Do you consider yourself in the same league as these women? If she's a 7 or an 8, do you consider yourself to be a 7 or an 8? And if you don't does your game increase your desirability to that level?

Has she expressed any interest in you at all? If she has how have you responded? Some women don't give men many opportunities to escalate because they want a guy who shows maximum interest. If she flirted back or got extra touchy one night and you failed to escalate, her interest level may permanently drop because you didn't go out and get the prize when she offered it the first time.

What type of activities is she inviting you to do? Is she asking you to come walk her dog with her or to clean her garage? Or is she asking you to go out with her to a party or club or bar? If she asking you to do menial tasks with her, then she isn't interested in banging you, but if she is asking you to go out to a bar together, then there may be hope that she wants to drink with you and let things happen.

Finally...why is she telling you that you can still be friends? I'm assuming these aren't women who were your girlfriends so why is this conversation coming up? If you are telling these women how much you like them and want to be with them then you have lost the game before it began. Women don't like when you show your hand so early, it makes you look desperate and clingy. Flirt with them, use kino, and escalate sexually whenever possible, but never tell them about your feelings for them and your intentions, let them think that you're just a fun guy and they will want more. If you spill your guts out they're going to back off.

Robert28 · Jan 16, 2014

MrNiceGuy23 said:
You need to figure out the answers to some questions to know this...

Do you consider yourself in the same league as these women? If she's a 7 or an 8, do you consider yourself to be a 7 or an 8? And if you don't does your game increase your desirability to that level?
Well I figured I was in their league or they wouldn't have agreed to go out with me in the first place. I also know that I have dated "out of my league" a couple of times but not lately. It's like I had a time where every girl I was dating was easily one or two levels above me, but now lately I'm having a hard time with girls equal to or a level or two below me. It's like I forgot wtf I was doing or something, like I lost my touch and I can't get it back to save my life. I don't THINK my game has decreased, but perhaps it's slipped and I didn't realize how bad? My game shines if a girl gives me an opening to show it, I have never had tight enough game to pretty much kick the door down if you know what I mean. If I can get my foot in the door, she's mine and eating out of my hand. It's getting to that part that's been the problem.

Has she expressed any interest in you at all? If she has how have you responded? Some women don't give men many opportunities to escalate because they want a guy who shows maximum interest. If she flirted back or got extra touchy one night and you failed to escalate, her interest level may permanently drop because you didn't go out and get the prize when she offered it the first time.
Well the first date we went on there was SOME light kino, but nothing out of the ordinary. The weird thing was at the end of the date I went in for the kiss and she turned to give me her cheek. That was a bad sign to me but I thought whatever. The weird thing is she contacted me several times after that first date. Initiated contact, I didn't. Problem is the second date she did the same d@mn thing, went in for the kiss, she turns away. That's when I said in my mind "fvck this broad".

What type of activities is she inviting you to do? Is she asking you to come walk her dog with her or to clean her garage? Or is she asking you to go out with her to a party or club or bar? If she asking you to do menial tasks with her, then she isn't interested in banging you, but if she is asking you to go out to a bar together, then there may be hope that she wants to drink with you and let things happen.
Well we've only been out twice, and the second time she asked me to come out to a bar with her friends for her friends birthday. Her friends all liked me (except one I think, but this girl was a h0ebag and hanging all over random guys all night). The rest of her friends actually talked to me all night and even talked me up in front of her. We had a good time, danced, drank, all that. Problem was at the end when I went for the kiss she turned away.

Finally...why is she telling you that you can still be friends? I'm assuming these aren't women who were your girlfriends so why is this conversation coming up? If you are telling these women how much you like them and want to be with them then you have lost the game before it began. Women don't like when you show your hand so early, it makes you look desperate and clingy. Flirt with them, use kino, and escalate sexually whenever possible, but never tell them about your feelings for them and your intentions, let them think that you're just a fun guy and they will want more. If you spill your guts out they're going to back off.

Well actually she brought it up, not me. She was on my facebook but I deleted her because it wasn't ever going to go anywhere and I didn't see the point of keeping her on there anyways. Few weeks go by and she emails me "I had fun with you when we went out, I truly did. Why'd you delete me off Facebook? We can still be friends you know!" I never replied. I never once told her I wanted to date her or that I liked her or anything like that. I just figured I'd let her see it through my actions. I never once spilled my feelings to her or any dumb thing like that.

Robert28 · Jan 16, 2014

Mike32ct said:
I don't believe in the persistence thing anymore. It's fine when you hear stories about how grandma rejected grandpa for a date four times 50 years ago, but he was persistent, and they finally got together and lived happily after after lol.

But, today's female uses words like stalker and creeper for "persistent" guys. Persistence is not respected like it once was. I have to agree with Judge Nismo (in another thread) where he mentions that we need a "one strike rule" (as opposed to two) because there is too much flaking going on.

Give a female one chance to play ball*. If she isn't up for it, move on.

*I think persistence is fine on a given DATE. Maybe try twice to make a move. But I would only seek another date if we at LEAST kissed on the lips. Obviously, you don't have to score on date one, but there should be some reasonable physical progress or else she isn't physically attracted. But "persistence" in terms of seeking more dates or get togethers when things aren't progressing physically? Hell no. Been there. Tried it. Doesn't work.

See, that's the thing. I can't remember a single time in my entire life where me being persistent paid off. Sure maybe the girl finally went on one date with me, but that's it. That was a helluva lot of trouble to go through for one d@mn date. But, then you hear all these girls talking about "yeah, Billy asked me out several times and I never would go out with him but finally I gave in and now look at us we're married with 2 kids and so happy. Gah we are so romantic". Then I hear stories like "yeah we dated for a few months and I broke up with him but he kept calling me and acting all crazy and wouldn't leave me alone and wouldn't take a hint.", but then you find out they got back together and ended up married and sh!t. So apparently you have to be a crazy son of a b!tch that can't take a hint, but other times you'll get labeled as a creeper or a stalker so I don't know wtf is going on. I just don't have the energy to act like a dumb@$$ for some girl and I'm not going to do it. Apparently that's how you get them though and if that's the case I'll just stay single and count my blessings that I'm sane.

MrNiceGuy23 · Jan 16, 2014

It sounds like you did everything right to me. I'm sure there are others guys on here with much more experience than I have (turn 22 next week) but you seem to know what you are doing and did everything right. My guess is you just weren't her type.

The situation at the bar is interesting though considering how her friends talked you up in front of her and all that. Perhaps they knew about you two before then and she might have expressed that she wasn't feeling it too much with you, but when her friends liked you they tried to jump on the bandwagon and help you out.

Just some bad luck, plus women are crazy, especially in the beginning. I too know how to game chicks and get with women very easily once I get my foot in the door, and I know how to just be a funny, flirty guy with women before getting my foot in the door, but taking that step of just being an attractive funny guy to showing the real interest can be tricky. I have found that I have had the most success at doing such a thing when the girl isn't my primary target. I typically mess it up with the primary target because I'm afraid of her reactions, but with other women it's almost too easy and I don't even realize what I did until they won't leave me alone afterwards.

Robert28 · Jan 16, 2014

MrNiceGuy23 said:
It sounds like you did everything right to me. I'm sure there are others guys on here with much more experience than I have (turn 22 next week) but you seem to know what you are doing and did everything right. My guess is you just weren't her type.

The situation at the bar is interesting though considering how her friends talked you up in front of her and all that. Perhaps they knew about you two before then and she might have expressed that she wasn't feeling it too much with you, but when her friends liked you they tried to jump on the bandwagon and help you out.

Just some bad luck, plus women are crazy, especially in the beginning. I too know how to game chicks and get with women very easily once I get my foot in the door, and I know how to just be a funny, flirty guy with women before getting my foot in the door, but taking that step of just being an attractive funny guy to showing the real interest can be tricky. I have found that I have had the most success at doing such a thing when the girl isn't my primary target. I typically mess it up with the primary target because I'm afraid of her reactions, but with other women it's almost too easy and I don't even realize what I did until they won't leave me alone afterwards.

See, I don't mind not being someone's type. We can't be interested in everyone. The thing is, you should know after the first date if someone is your type or they ain't. If they aren't, fine, but leave them the fvck alone! Don't go out of your way to contact with them on several occasions, ask you to come hangout with their friends at a bar, and then throw the friends thing in their face. Either tell me after our first date that you just want to be friends, or go the he11 on your way. Don't act like you're all upset and give a d@mn because I deleted you off facebook and act like it bothers you when you aren't even interested.

MrNiceGuy23 · Jan 16, 2014

Women love validation and they love knowing guys are interested, even when they don't have any interest in return. I wouldn't be surprised if she continued to contact you if you don't answer her, or if you answered her a week or so down the line with indifference. That stuff gets under women's skin thinking you were too busy to respond. They get all nervous that they made a mistake and keep coming back.

It also takes more than one date for some people. My ex wasn't my type physically at first, I didn't even really see her as attractive for the first year or so of our friendship, but then she grew on me and things changed.

In my social circle, I know what every girl I'm friends with thinks about me (I've had a big number tell me they would date me if given the chance). The ones that I know find me attractive I keep in contact with so I have options, the ones that don't find me attractive or I don't find them attractive I am nice to but put no effort in maintaining the relationship.

The more options you have the more attractive you'll seem, you won't have to convey this to any of the women you go out with, but subconsciously you'll start acting different. When you know the girl you're on a date with isn't your only option at the moment, you'll be less interested and more indifferent which draws women in.

GotED? · Jan 16, 2014

Don't waste your time on women who is not into you 100% - they just want you to chase them; ego-self-gratification. This will NOT get them hooked on you if you chase them, you become an ORIBTER.

Best policy I live by is, if they are not into me 100% and shows any sign of uncertainty or games, NEXT.

You must be in the mind set of anti-scarcity - there are so many women out there, with different looks and different depth. I don't waste my time on those who has no depth and not 100% interested. Looks has become a secondary goal after knowing the type of sh!t you have to wade through higher the HB+ woman is.

The fact is, you can do everything wrong (not kiss close by the 3rd date, etc) and she would still be chasing after you - those are the type of woman I would spend my focus on because she values you as a man and want to be with you regardless of what motive she wants to get out of you. A woman into you 100%, you can DO NO WRONG.

Be well.

Exodus

Mike32ct · Jan 16, 2014

Robert28 said:
See, that's the thing. I can't remember a single time in my entire life where me being persistent paid off. Sure maybe the girl finally went on one date with me, but that's it. That was a helluva lot of trouble to go through for one d@mn date. But, then you hear all these girls talking about "yeah, Billy asked me out several times and I never would go out with him but finally I gave in and now look at us we're married with 2 kids and so happy. Gah we are so romantic". Then I hear stories like "yeah we dated for a few months and I broke up with him but he kept calling me and acting all crazy and wouldn't leave me alone and wouldn't take a hint.", but then you find out they got back together and ended up married and sh!t. So apparently you have to be a crazy son of a b!tch that can't take a hint, but other times you'll get labeled as a creeper or a stalker so I don't know wtf is going on. I just don't have the energy to act like a dumb@$$ for some girl and I'm not going to do it. Apparently that's how you get them though and if that's the case I'll just stay single and count my blessings that I'm sane.

Yup. Persistence is great in LIFE like career, learning a skill, etc. But I don't think it's the way to go with women.

I don't even necessarily think women are EVIL for having orbiters. Sometimes they genuinely DO enjoy a guy's company very much, but they just don't want to F him. But, from our perspective, it's a waste of our time if she's someone we are attracted to. I suspect that is what happened. You're probably a really cool guy in person, and she genuinely enjoyed the COMPANY. She even thought you'd be good company for her and her friends, BUT, there was no 'gina tingle.

This happens a LOT today. It's because their TYPE is often something very specific. If a guy doesn't fit her type exactly (ie make the taco tingle), but is otherwise cool, it's automatic friendzone/orbiter.

As you know, getting the cheek when you go for the kiss is generally the "kiss of death." This is why I usually tell guys that you can't tell anything about the date until the end, when you go for the kiss. You can have the BEST conversation ever, laughing, etc. But if you get the "cheek" or worse she keeps enough distance to avoid all physical contact on the way to her car, it's over.

BeDJ · Jan 16, 2014

GotED? said:
You must be in the mind set of anti-scarcity

The abundance mindset is right up there with indifference. Mix those two and you got yourself the finest pvssy anti-repellent. There's a lot of facets in my life I need to improve on before dating again. I grab numbers and set up dates to keep myself sharp, but end up flaking/never responding. These women would actually try to set up another time, which very rarely happened to me in the past.

A lot of older guys on here advise to build your life and women will come. It's a win-win situation and the optimal strategy. You're always going to be out on the hunt, but you're not 'starving.' I think I'm 'getting it.'

Mike32ct said:
As you know, getting the cheek when you go for the kiss is generally the "kiss of death." This is why I usually tell guys that you can't tell anything about the date until the end, when you go for the kiss. You can have the BEST conversation ever, laughing, etc. But if you get the "cheek" or worse she keeps enough distance to avoid all physical contact on the way to her car, it's over.

Agreed.

I would add to go for the kiss close during the date, preferably after the first venue change. It allows for further escalation later. Even if you kiss close her at the end of the date, you aren't guaranteed a second date. You already have her there, why not take advantage of the situation? Getting another meeting can be like pulling teeth and most of the time, you'll never know where you fvcked up. The kiss is not the end goal, it's the first step.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=207067

SamTheHobit · Jan 16, 2014

Be persistent but don't chase.

Way too many variables, different women etc

Some women persistents will work some it won't.

Choosing one route in this case is gonna limit your options.

Either way it should be obvious after a while if she is interested or not by using common sense.
i. e telling you she just wants to verify friends

You have to be formless with women.

teddy · Jan 16, 2014

MrNiceGuy23 said:
but taking that step of just being an attractive funny guy to showing the real interest can be tricky.

this. A lot of women only want you as the "attractive,funny" guy but don't want any more from you. And if you want more, you "ruin" it.

Uncharted · Jan 16, 2014

Never be afraid to show interest.

If you want more and she only wants friends, then it's time to bounce. Who cares what she thinks anyway? She doesn't want to date you, so there is no reason for her to be in your life. If the situation was reversed, she would quickly hurt your feelings and get on with her life and never think about it again.

When I've gotten the "LJBF" line, I always say "no I don't think that's going to work". If she gets mad (because she's not getting her way), I don't care.

For the "persistence" stuff - it definitely works sometimes. Some girls just love playing hard to get because they think that's what they're supposed to do. Play along, just don't become a chump. Ask her out - if she declines or is shady, then move onto the next. I've asked girls out more than once and we ended up hooking up. Just remember not to chase one girl at a time forever. That's oneitis.

Like Biggie - I don't chase em I replace em.

Robert28 · Jan 16, 2014

Well I just gave it two days and replied back with "ok". I thought about replying with something else but I didn't want to seem bitter about it or act like it bothered me. I mean she can go to sleep tonight THINKING we are friends, doesn't mean we are though. I'm sure as fvck not going to ACT like her friend and if she keeps asking me to hangout I'll just keep blowing her off.

Uncharted · Jan 16, 2014

Robert28 said:
Well I just gave it two days and replied back with "ok". I thought about replying with something else but I didn't want to seem bitter about it or act like it bothered me. I mean she can go to sleep tonight THINKING we are friends, doesn't mean we are though. I'm sure as fvck not going to ACT like her friend and if she keeps asking me to hangout I'll just keep blowing her off.

Whatever works for you. It's not about her, it's about you.

"We can still be friends"

Robert28

Master Don Juan

Mike32ct

Master Don Juan

MrNiceGuy23

Senior Don Juan

Robert28

Master Don Juan

Robert28

Master Don Juan

MrNiceGuy23

Senior Don Juan

Robert28

Master Don Juan

MrNiceGuy23

Senior Don Juan

GotED?

Master Don Juan

Mike32ct

Master Don Juan

BeDJ

Guest

SamTheHobit

Master Don Juan

teddy

Senior Don Juan

Uncharted

Master Don Juan

Robert28

Master Don Juan

Uncharted

Master Don Juan