Yelling/tantrums and frame control

Lexington · 05-07-2012, 06:21 PM

I've noticed that in a lot of spousal/girlfriend/LTR arguments, the girl "wins" the argument simply by getting more upset. She'll yell, cry, sulk or stop talking. She would rather do this than to reason out her point. Why would they, when the tactic works so effectively? The girl could be completely in the wrong, but a lot of whipped guys just cave and give in to her emotional manipulation. They're basically just browbeaten into submission.

Just the other day one of my friends was in such a situation. His fat girlfriend was being completely unreasonable, but she acted like he had done something terrible by not acquiescing to her demands. He complained to me and some other friends about how wrong she was, but he nevertheless reinforced the bad behavior by constantly texting her apologetically while she gave him the silent treatment.

Even though she was being so unreasonable, she controlled the frame of the argument; it was the guy who had to defend his actions and seek her forgiveness or to "make it up" to her. It's not unlike watching fat, snot-nosed kids get their way with their parents by throwing a tantrum.

Thrill Seeker · 05-07-2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexington

His fat girlfriend

Nothing else matters. The dude settled for less...or more, depending which way you are looking at her...or it.

x86 · 05-08-2012, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thrill Seeker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexington

His fat pain in the ass girlfriend

The dude settled for less.

I fixed that up for you guys. Looks matter.. but so does personality. Seriously Thrill Seeker would you deal with her bull**** if she was a 10?

zekko · 05-08-2012, 02:43 AM

Guys are conditioned to give in to women. Comedians will tell you that even if the girl starts the argument and she is in the wrong, you have to apologize and let her have her way to get a peaceful life. Sitcoms too.

Atom Smasher · 05-08-2012, 08:27 AM

It's only because we allow it without repercussions. When children aren't disciplined, they run the household. Same thing with women.

We allow them, in order to avoid rejection, simple as that.

samspade · 05-08-2012, 10:07 AM

Somewhere on the Rational Male blog, I forget where, Rollo describes this ploy (female crying) as more of an evolutionary trigger.

Whatever the explanation behind it, as a man you shouldn't give in. However continuing to argue and show the woman the lack of logic in her argument won't get you very far. Better to stand your ground silently (after explaining yourself succinctly once).

bradd80 · 05-08-2012, 10:10 AM

why would any guy want to be with a fat chick in the first place??

backbreaker · 05-08-2012, 04:01 PM

i mean, if i have just done something wrong or where i know i am in the wrong i will give her a lot more lee way if i can honestly see where she is coming from. people have emotions and sometimes they need to let them out. like when we first started dating we went to the track on a big day and i was talking to girls and flirting like she wasn't there and she let me have it and you know, i really couldn't say antyhing because at that point in time she was correct.

but just arguing for the sake of arguing i don't do that. i simply refuse to engage. it's one thing to have a grown up discussion and as long as we are discussing things that's fine but if she just starts throwing a hissy fit for the sake of throwing a hissy i simply get my keys and leave and come back in a few hours. remove myself from the situation.

i figured out the key to arugingwith women. it doesn't matter if you are right. rather or not you are right or wrong has no outcome on her she is going to feel afterwards . women don't think like we do in that regard. so if i want what i want i don't even try to explain my point anymore beucsae she isn't listening anyway. not because she can't reason but becuase even if i do prove her right it's a temp. victory.

i don't try to prove her that it's in her best interest for her to calm the fvck down and listen to me.

my wife has a br4other that is 3 years older than she is. I don't care for him at all. he's the exact opposite of my wife. she works he doesn't. he's a leecher. he leaches off any and everyone. my wife and i do not argue a lot at all and when we do it's usually very ti vial **** that gets blown up. about what, janurary of this year her brother asked her to ask me could he borrow some money for a new business venture that he wants to do, about 15k, he wanted to have some website business built. this is not the first time he has asked for something and usually i oblige becuase she loves her brother very much and if he is happy she is happy and if she is happy i am happy. and usually it isn't **** that's too big i don't mind. and even the 15k isn't so much the issue as much as like, you have p;roven time and time again you dont' stick with **** and you have no real business plan and no idea as to what you are doing. at some point i have to put my foot down and say no and this was it. so i say no and at first she is cool with it but i could tell she was getting kinda pissy and then she made some smart allic comment the next day about not being able to buy something i had had my eye on because we were obviously broke.. i.e we are too broke to send her brother money. i let it slide. then just out of the blue she just says why are you being such an ******* to my brother and she starts yelling and getting mad and i said you know what.. it's saturday, i don't have to put up with this ****. took my son, went to the movies, went and got some ice ream, we kicked it all day long. i didn't say 2 words to her about it because my decision is final. i don't have to explain to you why i don't want to hand your brother who in 36 years has not done one god damn thing in his life.

about 7 hours later when we walked through the door she said she was sorry and now that she had calmed down i explained look.. her dad has the money and you notice that he didn't even bother to ask your dad. that right there shouldn't ell you all you need to know. if your brother can come to me himself like a man and show me why he needs the money i will drive him to the bank and give it to him myself but i'm not a charity case. **** i dont' give my own family money.

lol i even went no contact with her all day. she called me at least 5 times.

see arguing with her, woudl have made it worse. she would have dug in to her side and not listen to reason. by defusing the situation by leaving, it's kinda like a symbolic way of saying if you don't stop acting over trivial **** like this i can and will leave. in other words, when a woman tries to argue with her you have to enact an emotional response from her. she doesn't care about me being right or wrong. what she can understand in her terms however is she doesn't want to piss me off or leave me over something this trivial.

Thrill Seeker · 05-10-2012, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x86

I fixed that up for you guys. Looks matter.. but so does personality. Seriously Thrill Seeker would you deal with her bull**** if she was a 10?

Personality only matters once she is attractive enough to even get my attention. Especially for girlfriends...if it's just a sex thing, well I'm not hanging out with her for the conversation.

The point was, this guy is saying his friend's girlfriend walks all over him. He settled for a FAT girlfriend. Which probably means a few things:
1) He lacks game. This leads to point two inside of a relationship. IT also causes him to stay in a crap relationship because he cannot go out and seduce any other women, which leads to point three.
2) He does not have the frame.
3) He is happy to even get some poonani, despite her flesh looking like a walrus in a hail storm.

So listening to a temper tantrum from a 10 is definitely a sign that something is out balance in a relationship, committed or uncommitted. But the dude in question has probably never even hit a five...

05-07-2012, 06:21 PM	#1
Lexington Master Don Juan Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 28 Posts: 1,064	Yelling/tantrums and frame control I've noticed that in a lot of spousal/girlfriend/LTR arguments, the girl "wins" the argument simply by getting more upset. She'll yell, cry, sulk or stop talking. She would rather do this than to reason out her point. Why would they, when the tactic works so effectively? The girl could be completely in the wrong, but a lot of whipped guys just cave and give in to her emotional manipulation. They're basically just browbeaten into submission. Just the other day one of my friends was in such a situation. His fat girlfriend was being completely unreasonable, but she acted like he had done something terrible by not acquiescing to her demands. He complained to me and some other friends about how wrong she was, but he nevertheless reinforced the bad behavior by constantly texting her apologetically while she gave him the silent treatment. Even though she was being so unreasonable, she controlled the frame of the argument; it was the guy who had to defend his actions and seek her forgiveness or to "make it up" to her. It's not unlike watching fat, snot-nosed kids get their way with their parents by throwing a tantrum.

05-08-2012, 08:27 AM	#5
Atom Smasher Moderator Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: The 7th Dimension Age: 55 Posts: 2,830	It's only because we allow it without repercussions. When children aren't disciplined, they run the household. Same thing with women. We allow them, in order to avoid rejection, simple as that. __________________ "I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it." Picasso

05-08-2012, 10:07 AM	#6
samspade Master Don Juan Join Date: Jan 2008 Age: 37 Posts: 2,294	Somewhere on the Rational Male blog, I forget where, Rollo describes this ploy (female crying) as more of an evolutionary trigger. Whatever the explanation behind it, as a man you shouldn't give in. However continuing to argue and show the woman the lack of logic in her argument won't get you very far. Better to stand your ground silently (after explaining yourself succinctly once). __________________ http://theuniversalmale.wordpress.com/

05-08-2012, 04:01 PM	#8
backbreaker Master Don Juan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: monrovia, CA Age: 29 Posts: 9,625	i mean, if i have just done something wrong or where i know i am in the wrong i will give her a lot more lee way if i can honestly see where she is coming from. people have emotions and sometimes they need to let them out. like when we first started dating we went to the track on a big day and i was talking to girls and flirting like she wasn't there and she let me have it and you know, i really couldn't say antyhing because at that point in time she was correct. but just arguing for the sake of arguing i don't do that. i simply refuse to engage. it's one thing to have a grown up discussion and as long as we are discussing things that's fine but if she just starts throwing a hissy fit for the sake of throwing a hissy i simply get my keys and leave and come back in a few hours. remove myself from the situation. i figured out the key to arugingwith women. it doesn't matter if you are right. rather or not you are right or wrong has no outcome on her she is going to feel afterwards . women don't think like we do in that regard. so if i want what i want i don't even try to explain my point anymore beucsae she isn't listening anyway. not because she can't reason but becuase even if i do prove her right it's a temp. victory. i don't try to prove her that it's in her best interest for her to calm the fvck down and listen to me. my wife has a br4other that is 3 years older than she is. I don't care for him at all. he's the exact opposite of my wife. she works he doesn't. he's a leecher. he leaches off any and everyone. my wife and i do not argue a lot at all and when we do it's usually very ti vial ** that gets blown up. about what, janurary of this year her brother asked her to ask me could he borrow some money for a new business venture that he wants to do, about 15k, he wanted to have some website business built. this is not the first time he has asked for something and usually i oblige becuase she loves her brother very much and if he is happy she is happy and if she is happy i am happy. and usually it isn't that's too big i don't mind. and even the 15k isn't so much the issue as much as like, you have p;roven time and time again you dont' stick with and you have no real business plan and no idea as to what you are doing. at some point i have to put my foot down and say no and this was it. so i say no and at first she is cool with it but i could tell she was getting kinda pissy and then she made some smart allic comment the next day about not being able to buy something i had had my eye on because we were obviously broke.. i.e we are too broke to send her brother money. i let it slide. then just out of the blue she just says why are you being such an *** to my brother and she starts yelling and getting mad and i said you know what.. it's saturday, i don't have to put up with this . took my son, went to the movies, went and got some ice ream, we kicked it all day long. i didn't say 2 words to her about it because my decision is final. i don't have to explain to you why i don't want to hand your brother who in 36 years has not done one god damn thing in his life. about 7 hours later when we walked through the door she said she was sorry and now that she had calmed down i explained look.. her dad has the money and you notice that he didn't even bother to ask your dad. that right there shouldn't ell you all you need to know. if your brother can come to me himself like a man and show me why he needs the money i will drive him to the bank and give it to him myself but i'm not a charity case. i dont' give my own family money. lol i even went no contact with her all day. she called me at least 5 times. see arguing with her, woudl have made it worse. she would have dug in to her side and not listen to reason. by defusing the situation by leaving, it's kinda like a symbolic way of saying if you don't stop acting over trivial ** like this i can and will leave. in other words, when a woman tries to argue with her you have to enact an emotional response from her. she doesn't care about me being right or wrong. what she can understand in her terms however is she doesn't want to piss me off or leave me over something this trivial. __________________ Every man dies. Not every man really lives. -William Wallace

05-08-2012, 02:43 AM	#4
zekko Master Don Juan Join Date: Aug 2009 Age: 52 Posts: 4,809	Guys are conditioned to give in to women. Comedians will tell you that even if the girl starts the argument and she is in the wrong, you have to apologize and let her have her way to get a peaceful life. Sitcoms too.

05-08-2012, 10:10 AM	#7
bradd80 Master Don Juan Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: euphoria Age: 32 Posts: 1,536	why would any guy want to be with a fat chick in the first place??