Shyness

[slitherjef]

You know, I knew I was shy, but I really did not have any idea how bad it really was. Shyness has pretty much destroyed me. I am not shy all the time, but it takes me a while before I really warm up with anyone and by the time that happens, some think I am a total whack job or something. I made a post a couple weeks ago in the main forum about feeling invisible. Turns out, it could have been my shyness pushing everyone away.

I just finished reading a book called: "good-bye to shy" and learned a couple things. One could explain why I almost always get oneitis over a chick that shows any type of interest in me, even play flirting (damn teases) and why I fall hard. Pretty much it comes down to, "oh, this pretty chick is talking to me and I am attracted to her" then my brain goes into overdrive, which causes me to over think stuff, overriding the smaller brain below my belt. I start over analyzing stuff and come on too strong, or just plain mis-read the signals. Or I make excuses. Plus I don't have other options

Due to my shyness, I have no confidence or self esteem and I think I figured that one out too. Because I walk around kind of sealed off from everyone out, other could look at me as cold or not interested. This created a bit of a positive feedback loop: No one says "hi" to me so I feel unwanted and thus look at the floor and not chat with anyone making people feel like I must be cold or uninterested in them. This makes me feel bad, reinforcing this behavior and it gets worse, I feel even badder and it repeats. All because my closed off posture. All because I don't take that first look, or say that first "hi" or don't smile at that pretty girl across the sales floor that just walked in.

Eye contact. Yeah, thats really hard too. I am slowly making progress with this one, and even got a couple in while on the job a couple days ago, but I failed to smile (at least I think). A cutie walks in, I look her square on, her eyes go to the floor and to her left and I look down not looking back at her. If I waited a few more seconds, I could have known a bit more. If she looked back up and smiled shortly, that would have told me a lot. But I was too shy to finish the task.


Right now I can feel the excuses NOT to get my hear cut done by a pro at say, great clips (I know, they are not pro) instead of with the clippers in my bathroom. The biggest excuse right now is not knowing what kind of haircut I want. When all I got to do is tell them, "a bit long on the top and short on the sides and back"

I guess two of my biggest problems are:
1) I care what other people think of me, when we are all the same
2) The way I carry my self because I am closed off, people may see me as cold instead of the warm friendly, funny and witty shy person that I am.

I obviously know how to talk and listen (when I want to anyway) but I am often too concerned about saying "hi" to a hottie or even looking at her and cracking a little sly smile. What will she think? "Oh my god, this tubby creep is looking at me?" Why would I look creepy to her? Well, because my incongruent actions, being closed off, looking at the floor, or not smiling just right or at all. Then I will come home feeling like crap, feeling like a white fat albert and beat myself up over things and then fall deeper into the slump that Im in.

I read something in that same book that is probably true:

"People like me more then I think they do"

Probably something I should keep in mind.

For starters, I should change my mindset:

-Who cares what everyone things of me? Why do I need some jackass I don't even know make me feel like crap? They don't know me. Everyone has insecurities.

- Carry my self better. Keep my head up, change my posture a bit. Look out instead of down.

- Smile and try to have a positive outlook.

- Try to get and maintain eye contact. This is going to be hard, but at least with this one, I can hide behind my job. For now.

Anyone else battling shyness?

[Greasy Pig]

Don't be afraid to offend women.
Once I got over my ingrained willingness to validate women's bullsht, I really came out of my shell.
If, in a social or dating situation, you don't agree with something a woman says, disagree with her.
They might try to make you feel bad or belittle you but you'll earn far more respect by challenging women than supplicating them.
Do this enough and your confidence will grow.
Don't be overawed by them.
Another tip is to educate yourself more on a variety of topics like current affairs, pop culture, tv shows, sports, history, agriculture, feminism etc.
Knowledge truly is power and if you have it, you can be confident in virtually any social situation because you can engage people on virtually any topic.

[bmp2cpm]

Shyness can be a huge strength with the right women.

If you're shy becauase you are introverted, you must read Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. The book will change your outlook on life. Seriously.

If you are quiet and shy, you need to hook up with your opposite. That would would be the other extreme, a super-outgoing extrovert who can't stop talking. This type of woman would turn off many men but should work well with your personality. At the very least, she'll make a good good starter girl.

Never set silly limitations on yourself. So you may be shy. A lot of people are. Evolution needs introverts and extroverts for the species to succeed. The 2 personalities work together. American society puts an overwhelming emphasis on extroverts. But if you read the book, you'll find out there is much more going on under the surface.

[FairShake]

I think most of us are shy, at first, with people we don't know well. In fact I don't trust someone who isn't a little shyer and quieter at first. It's a survival skill that we develop for a reason. Namely we don't know who we are dealing with and need to observe and listen before we put ourselves out there. The issue, for you, is getting out of that observation period and into the participation period.

You need to examine yourself and find the cues to your negative thinking and the cues to your closed off behavior. This may take awhile and may be a constant struggle for vigilance. You may need some help to see what other people see. You seem to have some internal voice telling you that you aren't good enough. The only way to quiet that voice is recognize it and end it. And nothing can end it like success.

Low self-esteem leads to chronic shyness. If life has taught me anything it's that self-esteem doesn't come from a pill, theory, or mind tricks. It comes from facing your perceived failure and overcoming it (or at least cutting it down to size a bit or even just being OK with it). My shyness, for example, comes from thinking I'm not a particularly interesting person. If I don't interest a person (or even perceive myself to interest them) I feel down on myself and, if I'm not vigilant, I avoid talking to people. Now, I KNOW that connection isn't built on entertainment but I don't always feel that way.

Figure out your triggers bro. Backtracking and going back over things will at least give your some insight.

[slitherjef]

Today I was in a really down mood. Felt like crap that I don't have anyone. Felt like crap because I think I am too ugly to even get someone that I am attracted to. Thinking attraction sucks. What is the point? I like this chick but she "don't see me the same way" Why even bother?

It takes me a while before I get comfortable with people, its just the way I am. And the main reasons for this attitude I had to work with, of course, someone I am attracted to. She has a few orbiters, but I figured they are too chumpy and she is married. Don't change the fact I am still attracted to her. Attraction is not a choice, or so I have heard. This is kind of good news I guess, because I can be a bit more relaxed around her, but I was on the high strung side today before she came in. It did not take long, but I was talking to her. First thing I said was they got some excitement at work as some severe weather rolled in almost to the parking lot of where we work.

Then there was the minor banter here and there, some smack talk about work. She is looking into another job. This made me feel a bit sh*tty, because it feels like every time I get comfortable enough to talk to a nice girl, they just disappear from my life. My friends ex, who was cool, Fun to mess with. A couple chicks from my previous location where I worked. And now this one. Yeah, sure she has a "hubby" but that don't mean I can't talk to her. I know. Attraction sucks.

Anyway, she may be leaving, which means it would no longer be pen in the company ink. Yeah sure there is the "husband issue" but she can't have friends? It just figures. Nice chick, I can talk to her. Doubt she is attracted to me, why would she anyway? And she has a hubby. Makes it a bit easier for me to talk to her though. I do suspect that she is a bit unhappy in her current situation. But since I am not emotional tampon I don't know for sure, but a few things she has said has lead me to think this. I asked her one day if she ever felt like running away. She said all the time.... And I suppose not being an emotional tampon is a good sign.

Then on my way out to lunch I made a funny comment about forgetting my man purse (camera bag) which made her giggle and opened the chatting up to camera talk, she had been wanting to talk to me about cameras because she wanted to get a camera. So I chatted with her about what to look for and so on. Asking what all she would be using it for and so and so. Then I went to lunch.

When I got back from lunch, after a bit, the chatting resumed and I made an offer (doubt she will take me up on it, and if she does, I will sh*t my self and if she's alone and I have isolation, then I don't even know). I offered that if we ever got the same day off and neither one of us had nothing to do, I would go with her to look at cameras at best buy or something. She was like okay. Then I said if she wanted to learn more about photography and her new camera, I knew some one (me) who could use an assistant here and there. We kind of got interrupted and I may have got an answer, but missed it.

There was a lot giggling, and laughing between the two of us today. At one point she said something, which would implied that she had a dirty mind, perhaps I insinuated it. Im not sure. A bit of teasing, between both of us. Almost as if we are both unsure. Perhaps she don't want to lead my ugly ass on. I tossed a button at her today after she said something. She came back in from break with a bottle of water and I said something to the tune of: "Is this yours?" it was. "wow, you got good taste.... I like that" I then made a comment about me drinking out of the tap. Got a decent response.

Today is not the only day that this banter, giggling, slight teasing has happened. The last time I worked with her, pretty much the same thing went down. I even got a bit more edgy with her. It involved an inside joke, I came back from lunch and found a water pistol and I asked if she was going to "shoot me..." she told me no. "Because I have not bitten you..... yet" got a giggle / laugh. I have made various other call backs to things she has said to me and those got pretty much a good response. She kind of did a silly dance today in front of me, being a bit silly.

Does she like me? Perhaps. I made some dumb comments only to be giggled at and slightly teased (not often on the slight teasing though). If she did not, I am sure she would not even talk to me unless she had to.
Is she attracted to me? She has a "husband" her "orbiters" are probably better looking the I am and can make her laugh. And they are closer to her in race then I am, (she is light skinned). Eye contact is pretty much non existent between us, but I do look at her face while I am talking to her. I believe she is shy as well. Then again, perhaps she don't want to look me into the eye, indicating she may like me because she is not attracted to me and don't want to lead me on. Also no touching, though I have come close to doing so a few times, I just don't want it taken the wrong way. I am sure one day, we will be in close proximity and cracking each other up and one of us will playfully back hand the other on the upper arm. Or something else. I do know a few ways I can initiate kino, the tattoo on her wrist, or designer finger nails, but that may be too much too soon. The last time I touched a chick, it freaked her the hell out, but I could have done it wrong and too touchy feel-y. She too was a co-worker but in a different department. Kind of got awkward at work for a while.

My low self esteem obviously tells me, there is no way in HELL this chick (or any other) would be attracted to me. If nothing else, she is just being friendly because she has to.

Is there better choices then this chick? I am sure, but since it takes me so long to get comfortable around an attractive female. Yeah, I don't even know.

On my way out the door tonight she said she would see me later, then I replied, "unless you get a new job. And if you do, hope you don't forget about your friends here" Probably should have left that "friend" part out but what ever. She has a hubby, right?

But, going from the Art of Seduction, "create a false sense of security - approach indirectly" I guess I could say I am doing this, kind of.

Pretty damn sad case of oneitis, huh? But, this kind of explains why I tend to fall for co-workers, because I can slowly build up chatting with them and getting comfortable.

Stuff like this is part of my low self esteem. It feels like I have nothing going for me, no chicks in my life, hardly any friends, I don't drive (really don't care about driving, too many idiot drivers on the road and being a passenger allows my mind to wonder and think about stuff and pay attention to whats going on around me), I live at home with my parents, helping them out and because I don't want to be alone. Pretty crappy for picking up chicks.

I do have some hobbies and a few things going for me:
Photography which lead to a conversation today. Perhaps an eventual isolation with this girl? (don't want to get my hopes up)
Playing guitar
being funny. It honestly makes me feel good to make people laugh and smile and giggle and I have done this at my own expense at times.
A bit witty.
Im open minded and open to new things
I do have one sure fire way to scare the HELL out of a chick, the ultimate thrill ride... storm chasing Seriously. I go outside in tornado warnings with a camera.

The self esteem issues comes not from not knowing what to say or being boring. I don't think I am good looking enough for the chicks I am attracted to.

[Greasy Pig]

OP, you talk about "orbiters" but are you sure you aren't one of them?
My impression is you're paying waaaay too much attention to this chick and you're well and truly in the friend zone.
Married women love attention from men who aren't their husband because it boosts their ego. They love it but they'll rarely stray.
Be careful with this one. I think you're setting yourself up for major pain.
Sorry mate.

[slitherjef]

I have been doing some reading and it seems like i may be an introvert. Which would possibly explain a lot.

[slitherjef]

Originally Posted by Greasy Pig

OP, you talk about "orbiters" but are you sure you aren't one of them?
My impression is you're paying waaaay too much attention to this chick and you're well and truly in the friend zone.
Married women love attention from men who aren't their husband because it boosts their ego. They love it but they'll rarely stray.
Be careful with this one. I think you're setting yourself up for major pain.
Sorry mate.

You may very well be right.

Truth is, I don't think this girl is attracted to me "in that way" I have kind of accepted that. Thats not going to keep me from talking and being my relaxed self around her. I do tone down the sexual overtones due to the work factor. When I say I talk to her, I don't mean I keep spitting "game" at her.

I may well be in the friend zone with her. But the way I see it: She's not giving me any now, and friend zone means I am not getting any then either. Its a wash I guess.

Its just nice having someone to talk to vis-a-vis you know? I don't really have friends and I suppose that could be because I am probably a shy introvert.

I did order that book Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking to see if that me out when I do feel the need for interactions with other people especially females.

I have felt "different" for a while now, almost if I am wired differently or see things a bit different then other people. This introvert thing could be why.